AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi all. I'm posting because I sometimes have very irrational feelings of guilt when I speak out against "Jesus." Simple things like an irreverent "Praise Jesus" or "Praise the Lord" when I see some idiot like Pat Robertson ( ) make some inane remark like his comments about how the town of Dover shouldn't expect any help from God or that Sharon is paying for "dividing the land of God" bring about these feelings. I know this is all the result of the lifelong indoctrination into the doctrine of fear burned into me by Christianity, but I'm just wondering if others experience the same thing. If so, have you gotten over it and HOW??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi all. I'm posting because I sometimes have very irrational feelings of guilt when I speak out against "Jesus." Simple things like an irreverent "Praise Jesus" or "Praise the Lord" when I see some idiot like Pat Robertson ( ) make some inane remark like his comments about how the town of Dover shouldn't expect any help from God or that Sharon is paying for "dividing the land of God" bring about these feelings. I know this is all the result of the lifelong indoctrination into the doctrine of fear burned into me by Christianity, but I'm just wondering if others experience the same thing. If so, have you gotten over it and HOW??? Yes, I had strong feelings of guilt at first, but they subsided when I realized that I didn't get struck by lightning or that my life did not get any worse for it. I now feel that what I was speaking out against was the notion that I would somehow be punished for what I said. It's not so much that I was speaking out against Jesus, but my understanding, and other's understanding, about what power Jesus supposedly had. I wasn't speaking out against the person Jesus, but all the hype around him. I don't know if that helps any, because my pespective has changed to thinking that Jesus (real or not) said some insightful things and that he was morphed into something that he wasn't. Sorry...others can probably help you more than I. Also, WELCOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I only felt like that as a Christian. Almost as soon as I gave up Christianity all irrational guilt dissapeared also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Welcome! It's pretty normal to feel that way. You've been programmed to defend Jesus and God and to actively praise him in your life. Intellectually, you understand that Christianity is false, but it takes a while for the emotional response to catch up to your brain. The more you learn and educate yourself about the falseness of Christianity, the more the feeling will go away. Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Really all that helped me on this score was time. As you said, there is a lifetime of indoctorination to get over and deal with and it is going to take time to get rid of the side-effects of that. Remembering how ridiculous Chrisitanity is can help maintain perspective despite the guilt, though. Wish I could help more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I know this is all the result of the lifelong indoctrination into the doctrine of fear burned into me by Christianity, but I'm just wondering if others experience the same thing. If so, have you gotten over it and HOW??? This is a legacy of your indoctrination, just like you said. A lot of people have this problem, and you can use your own variation of what has helped install that doctrine of fear in you...ritual...but this time tailored to your new point of view. This parallels a lot of deconditioning that helps people get over fear of hieghts, water (etc.). That is taking elements of what scares you and overcoming their hold on you a little bit at a time. What you can do is make your own little ritual. What you need is some privacy, a candle, and a crucifix. What you need to do is sit at a table with the candle lit in front of you, the crucifix leaning against it in sight in front of you. Now, what you need to do is look at the crucifix, picture the worst possible hellish tortures that could ever possibly be dealt out to you. Feel all of that fear fully and in great detail. let yourself go, and shake and cry if you feel like it. Get it all out of your system, then, when you have done so, and this is the crucial point, take the crucifix and turn it upside down and say to it something like "...there, you've had your judgement and damnation of me, and that's all you're going to get, because I'm through being scared...". And then blow out the candle and leave the room. You might have to do this more than once, but you will notice an improvement right away. This helps exercise your new commitment to find your own way, and be free of indoctrination. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entgegen Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 On top of time, humor can help too...like really offensive Jesus jokes. Like, "Jesus walks into a motel and puts 3 nails down on the front desk and asks, 'hey, can you put me up for the night?'" or "What's the difference between Jesus and a picture? It only takes one nail to hang up a picture!" or "Why can't Jesus eat Skittles? Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!" Anyway, whatever approach you take, it will get easier. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 In addition to what others have mentioned here, I must confess that I take a perverse pleasure in seeing just how worked up Xians can get about religious issues. Watching a forumful of rabid fundies brains' explode when someone mentions the word "abortion", for instance, can be highly entertaining. Kind of like poking a hive full of bees with no stingers. Sit back with some popcorn and a tall, cool one, and watch the fundie fur fly! So I suppose I eliminate guilt by daring to get off on other people's stupidity. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyous1 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I did feel guilty at first, but for me it was easy to explain. For years I associated my religious beliefs with everything I saw as the best of myself. Saying anything against Christianity felt like a betrayal of my highest self. I had to consciously look at my own values and what I see as my best qualities and disconnect them from God. I had to learn to honor and revere my own spirit while casting off false reverence. I'm still sorting it out, but it feels great. Very peaceful and empowering. And those symbols bocome meaningless along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 On top of time, humor can help too...like really offensive Jesus jokes. Like, "Jesus walks into a motel and puts 3 nails down on the front desk and asks, 'hey, can you put me up for the night?'" or "What's the difference between Jesus and a picture? It only takes one nail to hang up a picture!" or "Why can't Jesus eat Skittles? Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!" Anyway, whatever approach you take, it will get easier. Best of luck! ...Please, please tell me you have more blasphemous jokes! Those ones are just... beautiful! However, I sometimes have this feeling of guilt, but it comes out mostly when some christian tells me that I shouldn't talk against his or her religion, and that by doing so I'm showing to be an intolerant person that has no respect for others' ideas. Of course they CAN talk about religion, I cannot. And then I feel guilty, but it is mostly because I am not very self confident, so if someone criticizes me and my personality, I feel more angry and sadder than I probably should. But I realize then that the problem is with my issues of self confidence, not with my relationship with god's concept. And move on. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hey, CJones... Have we met before? I had a good friend of mine who went by the same name about two years back. I know it's a long shot, but I thoght I'd ask. It's a small world, right? Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 My guilt dissolved in stages. The first stage was based on residual beliefs that there was still some chance that the gospel was true, that Jesus was looking over my shoulder, and shaking his head at my rebelliousness and mocking of him. This went away by reading and studying and becoming absolutely convinced that the gospel was a man-made fabrication and a wonderful excercise in creative writing. The second stage of guilt was when I openly showed disdain or ridicule to christian's faith who came to this site. I know how deeply a person can "love" Jesus - and it didn't feel quite right to ridicule them. That went away when I realized that every single one of them subscribed to the belief that I was deserving of eternal hell and damnation. (and a few even took pleasure in it).. Now, I just figure that all's fair in love, war, and religion. Fundies come in here looking for a spat, they'll sure as hell (just a figure of speech) get it. And, there is no supreme Jabba-the-God on his throne who is offended by my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Now, I just figure that all's fair in love, war, and religion. Fundies come in here looking for a spat, they'll sure as hell (just a figure of speech) get it. I like that attitude! Like you were saying, I've felt guilt about being angry at some here too, but mostly I get angry without any regrets at the half-assed rebelious. Those who won't make a full break from god ideas, just to be on the safe side, but want to feel an identity of being an independent thinker by coming around and acting "as if". That especially angers me when they put in their -.o2 to those people I believe are showing signs of serious trouble, like depression and some psychotic symptoms. That's when the peanut gallery needs to be put in their place, whenever there is real work to be done. No time for playing pretend then.....see, I bet I'm more intolerant than you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 On top of time, humor can help too...like really offensive Jesus jokes. Like, "Jesus walks into a motel and puts 3 nails down on the front desk and asks, 'hey, can you put me up for the night?'" or "What's the difference between Jesus and a picture? It only takes one nail to hang up a picture!" or "Why can't Jesus eat Skittles? Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!" Anyway, whatever approach you take, it will get easier. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hi all. I'm posting because I sometimes have very irrational feelings of guilt when I speak out against "Jesus." Simple things like an irreverent "Praise Jesus" or "Praise the Lord" when I see some idiot like Pat Robertson ( ) make some inane remark like his comments about how the town of Dover shouldn't expect any help from God or that Sharon is paying for "dividing the land of God" bring about these feelings. I know this is all the result of the lifelong indoctrination into the doctrine of fear burned into me by Christianity, but I'm just wondering if others experience the same thing. If so, have you gotten over it and HOW??? I've still got quite strong feelings of guilt. The worst one for me at the moment is the attempts by my mother to make me think "what if" I'm wrong and as a consequence of my behaviour, my son deconverts and ends up burning in hell. Guilt didn't describe the emotion she's inducing in me, although rationally I know she's talking a load of rubbish (I'm still too laden down by my guilt to swear..) I'm trying to put it into a long term perspective, which might help you too. After 40 odd years of thinking one way, resolution cannot be expected in a few weeks. The ties between what we feel and cues, such as certain words we might say, thoughts even or behaviour, will take a long time to break or diminish. Just thinking about carrying out Charley's suggestion makes me feel guilty, for example, but that is one way to try and break those ties and form new links in your mind (and mine too, come to that) which might help things resolve more quickly. Just as a phobic has to face the fear to break it, so this is something that we maybe have to face too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Just as a phobic has to face the fear to break it, so this is something that we maybe have to face too. One thing to keep in mind is that whenever you think of these things, all you can usually picture and sense are the fears and guilt and the desire to be rid of them. What is difficult, and what many are unable to sense is what they would feel like after that grip is broken. That is what makes it so difficult to take a step toward change like I described a few posts back. When your mind doesn't have a clear set of alternate "script" to replace the guilt inducing one, it sets up a fear to change. Because although you desire to be free of guilts that you also feel are unfounded, they serve a function in satisfying a central drive for survival. So, it can be good to keep in mind that difference between substantial accuracy of thinking and functionality of thinking. And I can tell you also that even though you may enter into ridding yourself of phobias as I suggested without a clearly devised script to replace it, there will be one made by you that is always of the same nature for everyone who has done this : that is of deep pride and accomplishment in taking a huge step toward feeling wholeheartedly what you intellectually percieve. Nothing beats good healthy pride in your own accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hi all. I'm posting because I sometimes have very irrational feelings of guilt when I speak out against "Jesus." Simple things like an irreverent "Praise Jesus" or "Praise the Lord" when I see some idiot like Pat Robertson ( ) make some inane remark like his comments about how the town of Dover shouldn't expect any help from God or that Sharon is paying for "dividing the land of God" bring about these feelings. I know this is all the result of the lifelong indoctrination into the doctrine of fear burned into me by Christianity, but I'm just wondering if others experience the same thing. If so, have you gotten over it and HOW??? I've been there, myself. It's just a part of the brainwashing Xians have to endure. Jesus is the most sacred thing, and he deserves all the worship and respect our worthless souls can muster up. Speaking a single word against him is the height of blasphemy and cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. After all, the Bible is rife with how eeevil blasphemy is and the death and damnation blasphemers are to endure if they don't repent. Various Xian schools and sects drum this into our heads, and even in Xian history classes we learn of the various holy wars and trials that blasphemers have been on the receiving end of just because they didn't believe and/or spoke out against Jesus. You just have to train yourself, over time, to think differently. All it is is a matter of reconditioning your mind. When you realize Jesus is nothing more than a myth, and there is no Biblegodzilla up there to judge and damn you, you will realize that "blaspheming" doesn't even exist, because you can't slander fiction as if it were fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyous1 Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Nothing beats good healthy pride in your own accomplishments. This is so true. All the reverence and worship you once directed outwardly can be rediirected onto yourself, your own life, your own goals, your inherent goodness. And toward friends and loved ones who have qualities you admire. All that energy that was once wasted on...on... NOTHING, can now be applied to truly positive endeavors and relationships. And, there is no supreme Jabba-the-God on his throne who is offended by my comments. Bwahahahah Jabba-the-God, I love it. "Dance for me or I'll throw you into the pit with the great serpent, Dance dammit, and love me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aynalhub Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 People also feel guilty for turning in their fathers that raped and beat them sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entgegen Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 And, there is no supreme Jabba-the-God on his throne who is offended by my comments. Raja naba doa golla wookie nipple pinchey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In addition to what others have mentioned here, I must confess that I take a perverse pleasure in seeing just how worked up Xians can get about religious issues. Watching a forumful of rabid fundies brains' explode when someone mentions the word "abortion", for instance, can be highly entertaining. Kind of like poking a hive full of bees with no stingers. Sit back with some popcorn and a tall, cool one, and watch the fundie fur fly! So I suppose I eliminate guilt by daring to get off on other people's stupidity. Or something like that. ME TOO! I don't even really debate, just poke, just to watch them get allllllllll BENT. I don't normally go to xian forums to mock them or anything, but when you say the most benign things or just take counter point and have them go all balistic, or or or I love snide. "Hi I'm Lil Miss Christian and I have the gift of snideness" I guess it jsut confirms for me that it is all made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Merlin, It's possible...I remember having a friend that went by the SN Merlin...it was long ago...probably even more than two years. I have a horrible memory though, so forgive me for not recalling specifics. That would be something if you actually knew someone with the SN cjones_mcse and it wasn't me. Where did you know this person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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