193,000 Years

[Mythra]

I read an article lately that the fossil records show that homo sapiens are known to have been on this planet as long ago as 195,000 years. Did all of these dudes have eternal souls?

 

Jesus supposedly came here 2,000 years ago. So what became of the eternal souls of all of those ladies and gentlemen for 193,000 years before Jesus?

 

Were they able to accept Christ as their personal savior posthumously? If so, why can't we?

 

Or, did God bend the rules and allow all of these sinful souls into heaven?

 

Or, is everyone who lived pre-Jesus now in hell?

 

Or, is the fossil record and carbon dating another one of ol' Beelzebul's tricky tricks to fool the rebellious?

 

So much to think about.

 

 

 

Here is the article for you fundies who refuse to believe anything without rock solid evidence.

[HuaiDan]

The total population of the human race was infintessimal prior to the times of Jesus. So it's possible that more heathen souls are going to hell every year now than in the whole time prior to the birth of Jesus.

By possible, I mean within the bounds of your speculation.

[BlueGiant]

Not entirely true. While the population may have been small then, compared to the population today, it was still quite signifigant. You also would probably have a faster generation turnover, so the rate of people going through would probably notch the pre-Christ dead up pretty signifigantly.

 

I am curious as to the response on this.

[NotBlinded]

Actually, that sounds like a good book. But its downfall seems to be that they KNOW what happens after we die. For that reason alone, I can't buy it...literally!

[BlueGiant]

Well there is one way to know what happens after we kick the bucket, and I like everyone else am dying to find out (or better put, will find out one way or another).

 

Another book that has all the answers...where have I heard that before...?

[Amanda]

I read an article lately that the fossil records show that homo sapiens are known to have been on this planet as long ago as 195,000 years.

Mythra, I think homo sapiens came way before that. According to this interdisciplinary timeline found here , we show evidence of being here 1,000,000 BC. It says this:

1,000,000 BC Danakil skull with features of Homo sapiens;

In the Northern Danakil Depression in Eritrea, the discovery of a human skull, with features characteristics of Homo sapiens and estimated to be one million years old, could provide new clues about how and when modern man evolved. The skull proves that traits of modern man began to differentiate in Africa about one million years ago, 300,000 years earlier than previous estimates. The skull supports the theory that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the world about 100,000 years ago. (from a June 3, 1998, Reuters article)

Did all of these dudes have eternal souls?

 

Jesus supposedly came here 2,000 years ago. So what became of the eternal souls of all of those ladies and gentlemen for 193,000 years before Jesus?

Couldn't it be that after the last ice age, and after we found a newly mutated wheat that allowed consistent harvesting and ability to stabilize, that it gave mankind time to ponder deeper thoughts? This would of been about 6000 years ago. Wouldn't, according to Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, man came to a point to consider self actualization, an initial altruistic concept of life? Could he have considered this a higher power now talking to him?

 

Maybe this concept pushed to a "righteousness" that got way out of control, condemning everyone. Could Christ, as a social revolutionist, have initiated the concept that no one has to be perfect, that ALL are deserving of acceptance of this higher power that he stipulates is in us all? That would then account for past and future of everyone, wouldn't it?

[NotBlinded]

Couldn't it be that after the last ice age, and after we found a newly mutated wheat that allowed consistent harvesting and ability to stabilize, that it gave mankind time to ponder deeper thoughts? This would of been about 6000 years ago. Wouldn't, according to Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, man came to a point to consider self actualization, an initial altruistic concept of life? Could he have considered this a higher power now talking to him?

Hi Amanda!

 

I watched a show on the National Geographic Channel Tuesday about the Hidden Pyramids of Peru. If I can recall, this civilization dates back to almost 5,000 BCE! It was shown that these people grew cotton and made fishing nets for the people that lived on the coast. This city was built around trade. This was really a revelation because many felt that civilizations sprung up due to warfare. It was pretty cool. They are showing it again on 02/27/06 at 10 pm and the 28th at 1:00 am.

 

This is just some info that goes nicely with what you have said.

[Eponymic]

I watched a show on the National Geographic Channel Tuesday about the Hidden Pyramids of Peru. If I can recall, this civilization dates back to almost 5,000 BCE! It was shown that these people grew cotton and made fishing nets for the people that lived on the coast. This city was built around trade. This was really a revelation because many felt that civilizations sprung up due to warfare. It was pretty cool. They are showing it again on 02/27/06 at 10 pm and the 28th at 1:00 am.

 

Funny isn't it. It definitely springs up a topic that Christians are always quick to sweep under the rug. Oh yes, Jesus saved us. But really, only those who were in a 1,000 square mile area, the rest of you heathens who never even had an inlking who Christ was are screwed.

[Amanda]

I watched a show on the National Geographic Channel Tuesday about the Hidden Pyramids of Peru. If I can recall, this civilization dates back to almost 5,000 BCE! It was shown that these people grew cotton and made fishing nets for the people that lived on the coast. This city was built around trade. This was really a revelation because many felt that civilizations sprung up due to warfare. It was pretty cool. They are showing it again on 02/27/06 at 10 pm and the 28th at 1:00 am.

 

Funny isn't it. It definitely springs up a topic that Christians are always quick to sweep under the rug. Oh yes, Jesus saved us. But really, only those who were in a 1,000 square mile area, the rest of you heathens who never even had an inlking who Christ was are screwed.

Hi NBBTB... did the show say anything about a spiritual aspect in regards to these people? That is a very fascinating culture concerning HUGE pictures drawn in the earth that can only be discerned from the air! Why was this done before flight was even thought of being possible? Also, some place called something like Mitchu Pitchu? I'll try and watch it towmarrow. Thanks.

 

Hi Eponymic!... well the whole idea is that reason will win in the end. Don't you think reason has to get us sooner or later? :wink:

[BlueGiant]

You know, I've always loved the gymnastics that even the literalists get into to try to deal with all the pre-Jesus, pre-missionary people, mostly to avoid sending a whole lotta people into hell. Probably in an attempt to convince themselves that their god is not nearly the monster that is described by their theology.

[godlessgrrl]

Okay, I'm totally on a Neolithic kick right now, but I'd like to point out that civilization - even agriculture - started long before 5000 or 6000 BCE. Catal Huyuk in modern Turkey dates to 8000 BC. Jomon culture in Japan dates to 10,000 BCE. Lepenski Vir dates from around 7000 BCE at its earliest settlement date. Even Jericho may date to 8000 BCE.

 

Civilization didn't begin with war. It began much earlier. I honestly don't know if war pushed it to develop any faster. I suppose it's possible. But civilization probably would've kept developing without the advent of war anyway.

 

But this doesn't actually have anything to do with the OP, so I'll stop digressing.

[Amanda]

Okay, I'm totally on a Neolithic kick right now, but I'd like to point out that civilization - even agriculture - started long before 5000 or 6000 BCE. Catal Huyuk in modern Turkey dates to 8000 BC. Jomon culture in Japan dates to 10,000 BCE. Lepenski Vir dates from around 7000 BCE at its earliest settlement date. Even Jericho may date to 8000 BCE.

 

Civilization didn't begin with war. It began much earlier. I honestly don't know if war pushed it to develop any faster. I suppose it's possible. But civilization probably would've kept developing without the advent of war anyway.

 

But this doesn't actually have anything to do with the OP, so I'll stop digressing.

 

Gwenmead, how interesting! Thank you!

 

According to Wikipedia found here,

 

Mesopotamia

The earliest settlement in Jericho (9th millennium BC) in modern-day Palestine, was a PPNA culture that eventually gave way to more developed settlements later, which included in one early settlement (8th millennium BC) mud-brick houses surrounded by a stone wall, having a stone tower built into the wall. In this time there is evidence of domesticated emmer wheat, barley and pulses and hunting of wild animals. However, there are no indications of attempts to form communities (early civilizations) with surrounding peoples. Nevertheless, by the 6th millennium BC we find what appears to be an ancient shrine and cult, which would likely indicate intercommunal religious practices in this era.

 

By 6000 BC predynastic Egyptians in the southwestern corner of Egypt were herding cattle and constructing large buildings.

 

China

Developed agriculture appears in the 7th millennium BC in the Peiligang culture (discovered in 1977) of Henan, China, including storing and redistributing crops, millet farming and animal husbandry (pigs).

 

Of course, this site also stipulates what is considered "civilizations". That seems to be a word that has come to have different definitions.

 

Information about the Jamon culture could be found here, and it said:

 

They practised a rudimentary form of agriculture and lived in caves and later in groups of either temporary shallow pit dwellings or above-ground houses, leaving rich kitchen middens for modern anthropological study. Because of this, the earliest forms of farming are sometimes attributed to Japan (Ingpen & Wilkinson) in 10,000 BC, two thousand years before their widespread appearance in the Middle East.

 

After 1500 BC, the climate cooled, and populations seem to have contracted dramatically. Comparatively few archeological sites can be found after 1500 BC.

 

Concerning as early as 4000 BC:

 

Many other elements of Japanese culture also may date from this period and reflect a mingled migration from the northern Asian continent and the southern Pacific areas. Among these elements are Shinto

 

Shinto --- (sometimes called Shintoism) is a native religion of Japan and was once its state religion. It is a form of animism. It involves the worship of kami, which can be translated to mean "sacred spirits which take the form of things and concepts important to life, such as wind, rain, mountains, trees, rivers and fertility". ------ The word Shinto was created by combining two kanji: "神" shin, meaning gods or spirits (the character can also be read as "kami" in Japanese), and "道" tō meaning "way" or "path" in a philosophical sense (the same character is used for the Chinese word Tao).

 

Gwenmead, I speculate that 'religion' began their peak during these times of initially having an abundance of food source. This gives stability and the potential to ponder such ideas instead of continual concern for survival. Do you know anything else about something like this in these Neolithic periods?

[NotBlinded]

Hi NBBTB... did the show say anything about a spiritual aspect in regards to these people? That is a very fascinating culture concerning HUGE pictures drawn in the earth that can only be discerned from the air! Why was this done before flight was even thought of being possible? Also, some place called something like Mitchu Pitchu? I'll try and watch it towmarrow. Thanks.

You know, I don't recall them mentioning anything about sprituality. It seems it 5000 years ago, not 5000 BC. What's a couple thousand years anyway?

 

I don't recall anything about the pictures, although it is beautiful from the air!

 

Also, the Smithsonian website called the bones of a child they found a ritual sacrifice, whereas, National Geographic couldn't find any marks on the bones that would indicate a killing. The said it was wrapped in cloth with a necklace and buried under the floor. Probably about 2 months old and died of natural causes.