Penguin Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I have been doing some research on how we got the Bible. Scratch that. I've been trying to do some research on how we got the Bible. I cannot find solid, consistent information--even among Christian sources. The way I understand it, the Hebrews wrote their books, sometimes with decades or centuries between them. These were then translated into the Septuagint (that is, the Koine Greek). Some of the Bible is patched together using the Masoretic Text, apparently to fill in gaps or supplement the Septuagint. The Gospels were written decades after the events they describe, and the rest of the New Testament was spread out over further decades, culminating in Revelation, where John--the last living disciple--was exiled on Patmos until his death in approximately 60 CE. Then comes the different versions. Councils of men convened to discuss which books would be used. They examined what books were being used consistently in the churches, they examined the books for consistency, and then compiled them. These versions have been separated and pieced together into different canons over the centuries, and translated into various languages, not to mention various versions in those languages. There's the issue of King James. He convened the Hampton Court Conference to address the "problems" perceived by the Puritans in the Church of England at the time. Yet Christians are told the thing they open on Sunday mornings is the inspired Word of God, totally consistent and trustworthy, able to communicate accurately the history of Judaism, Christ, the Church, and the nature of God--not to mention prophecies about the future. I'm not looking to bash the Bible or Christianity here. I'm looking for an honest explanation of how a person can possibly trust what seems to be a patchwork quilt of oral histories and partial documents, pieced together by fallible men in eras no different than our own, where men will come to any meeting with their own agendas. Furthermore, it has been torn apart and reworked into different canons, then translated into various languages and versions, all claiming to accurately convey God's inspired Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Good questions - all of them. Most people don't realize how messy and imprecise the history of the Bible is. It was this fact that ended up deconverting me when I was told my whole life that it was the perfect inspired and inerrant word of God. Keep digging. Make sure you read some Bart Ehrmann. I've read 3 or 4 of his book now and enjoyed them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyson Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well, God has obviously supernaturally intervened to allow the true message to filter through the patchwork. If you first assume things are true ie have faith, then you can pretty much justify anything. I discovered these issues with the Bible after I deconverted also, and also found out that its common knowledge in academia / seminaries / bible schools. Then I started to think most priests / pastors etc are no better than the politicians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Penguin, I would suggest you read scholars like Bart Ehrman, Robert M. Price, Elaine Pagels, John Dominic Crossan, and other noteworthy secular religious historians. The bible most likely came from stories created by nomadic tribesmen, who often included a lot of accepted Pagan myths in their stories. These stories evolved over time and eventually some scribe wrote them down. The Jesus story contains a number of similarities to a host of other pagan demi God stories that existed for hundreds, maybe even a thousand years, before the Jesus story emerged. Dr. Bart Ehrman noted in one of his books the bible has been redacted, edited, and changed more times than there are even words in it. Christian apologist and scholars would be the last place I'd look for an unbiased assessment of the Bible's validity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted March 4, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have been doing some research on how we got the Bible. Scratch that. I've been trying to do some research on how we got the Bible. I cannot find solid, consistent information--even among Christian sources. The way I understand it, the Hebrews wrote their books, sometimes with decades or centuries between them. These were then translated into the Septuagint (that is, the Koine Greek). Some of the Bible is patched together using the Masoretic Text, apparently to fill in gaps or supplement the Septuagint. The Gospels were written decades after the events they describe, and the rest of the New Testament was spread out over further decades, culminating in Revelation, where John--the last living disciple--was exiled on Patmos until his death in approximately 60 CE. Then comes the different versions. Councils of men convened to discuss which books would be used. They examined what books were being used consistently in the churches, they examined the books for consistency, and then compiled them. These versions have been separated and pieced together into different canons over the centuries, and translated into various languages, not to mention various versions in those languages. There's the issue of King James. He convened the Hampton Court Conference to address the "problems" perceived by the Puritans in the Church of England at the time. Yet Christians are told the thing they open on Sunday mornings is the inspired Word of God, totally consistent and trustworthy, able to communicate accurately the history of Judaism, Christ, the Church, and the nature of God--not to mention prophecies about the future. I'm not looking to bash the Bible or Christianity here. I'm looking for an honest explanation of how a person can possibly trust what seems to be a patchwork quilt of oral histories and partial documents, pieced together by fallible men in eras no different than our own, where men will come to any meeting with their own agendas. Furthermore, it has been torn apart and reworked into different canons, then translated into various languages and versions, all claiming to accurately convey God's inspired Word. Honest explanation: It can't be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubtingNate Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Because most believers are taught these things from childhood. It simply don't make since to anyone who wasn't raised to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I have been doing some research on how we got the Bible. Scratch that. I've been trying to do some research on how we got the Bible. I cannot find solid, consistent information--even among Christian sources. The way I understand it, the Hebrews wrote their books, sometimes with decades or centuries between them. These were then translated into the Septuagint (that is, the Koine Greek). Some of the Bible is patched together using the Masoretic Text, apparently to fill in gaps or supplement the Septuagint. The Gospels were written decades after the events they describe, and the rest of the New Testament was spread out over further decades, culminating in Revelation, where John--the last living disciple--was exiled on Patmos until his death in approximately 60 CE. Then comes the different versions. Councils of men convened to discuss which books would be used. They examined what books were being used consistently in the churches, they examined the books for consistency, and then compiled them. These versions have been separated and pieced together into different canons over the centuries, and translated into various languages, not to mention various versions in those languages. There's the issue of King James. He convened the Hampton Court Conference to address the "problems" perceived by the Puritans in the Church of England at the time. Yet Christians are told the thing they open on Sunday mornings is the inspired Word of God, totally consistent and trustworthy, able to communicate accurately the history of Judaism, Christ, the Church, and the nature of God--not to mention prophecies about the future. I'm not looking to bash the Bible or Christianity here. I'm looking for an honest explanation of how a person can possibly trust what seems to be a patchwork quilt of oral histories and partial documents, pieced together by fallible men in eras no different than our own, where men will come to any meeting with their own agendas. Furthermore, it has been torn apart and reworked into different canons, then translated into various languages and versions, all claiming to accurately convey God's inspired Word. "The Gospels were written decades after the events they describe..." This is begging the question. We need to know if the "events" actually happened. We would need to know that before we can describe it using historical categories. Since nearly everything in the gospels has either a literary antecedent or a symbolic meaning, it is highly unlikely anything there was inspired by actual historical events. "...culminating in Revelation, where John--the last living disciple--was exiled on Patmos until his death in approximately 60 CE." More question begging. We don't know if someone named "John" actually existed, much less wrote Revelation. Just because some Christian text has a purported author, is not evidence that this person actually wrote the text, as demonstrated by all the fake letters by "Paul." And the date is usually placed after 80 AD, but this is just a guess. "Yet Christians are told the thing they open on Sunday mornings is the inspired Word of God, totally consistent and trustworthy..." Yeah. It's a lie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I would also recommend that you read a history of god by karen armstrong. it was eye opening to me. -peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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