Heartbroken

[Llwellyn]

[GoldenWolf]

Sorry to hear that, Bird. ((hugs))

[Lilith666]

I'm very sorry you're going through this. Because he said it, it doesn't mean he meant it...in fact if he did it would be even insaner than that he said it already. He just wants to think he loves gawd and is loyal to him, wouldn't deny Jesus, all that bogus. Believe me I understand that's painful. It's just a sign of how desperately brainwashed he is.

[Birdwatcher]

Birdie, hugs to you. I agree with what others have said.  Have you considered seeing a secular marriage counselor or therapist together?  It might help, at least to get some things out in the open in a managed environment.  I wish you all the best.

Thanks FreeThinkerNZ.  I don't think my husband would concede to going to a secular counselor. He would insist that the counselor be Christian (yuck). Over the last day the tension between us has eased a bit,  even though nothing has been solved between us.  Being able to vent here has relieved some of my emotions and given me perspective. When I analyze the situation, I realize that my question put him in a lose/lose position.  If he said he would not sacrifice me he would be (in his mind) disappointing God.  If he said he would sacrifice me he would be disappointing me.  I didn't set him up intentionally, it was just one of those times I should have thought before I spoke (and so should have he).

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi Birdwatcher, hugs, and thanks for yours on my other thread.

 

There is reportedly a nesting pair of bald eagles on Staten Island, and a former student of mine says she in New Jersey has a nesting pair in a tree visible from her house. great to see new life in a species that had been threatened.

[Birdwatcher]

There is reportedly a nesting pair of bald eagles on Staten Island, and a former student of mine says she in New Jersey has a nesting pair in a tree visible from her house. great to see new life in a species that had been threatened.

 

Thanks Ficino.  I agree, it's great to see this species coming back from the brink of extinction. I've been watching a nest, through live cam located in Hanover, PA. (http://hdontap.com/index.php/video/stream/bald-eagle-live-cam).  It's fascinating to watch the dedication of these eagle parents.  They are incredible hunters. The eaglets are almost 4 weeks old, and they are growing so fast.

[Thackerie]

People commit murder much too frequently because God/Satan/The Voices told them to. If your husband is not insane but merely deluded by the Big Christian Lie, the murderous episode will never come up. Still, he has a fucked up system of values, he loves an imaginary entity more than he does you, and personally I wouldn't put up with it, and I'm 66 years old. Talk about starting over!

 

Here's yet another case where I wish I could up-vote a wise comment by Florduh but can't because of his status as a moderator.

 

So, I'll just say this: I agree with Florduh +1000.

 

I wouldn't put up with that kind of crap from my spouse/life partner for one second. *

 

I'm "only" 57, but I'm pretty sure I'll feel the same when I reach Florduh's ripe out age, and however much riper I become before I fall off the vine.

 

*Fortunately, I don't have to. My spousal equivalent and helper monkey (gonna maybe get married someday if we ever get around to it but for now still living in sin after 25+ years) used to teach Sunday School, but over the years with me, his faith has fizzled out completely and he's just as heathen as I am. Says he's happy about it, too.

[Thackerie]

 

There is reportedly a nesting pair of bald eagles on Staten Island, and a former student of mine says she in New Jersey has a nesting pair in a tree visible from her house. great to see new life in a species that had been threatened.

 

Thanks Ficino.  I agree, it's great to see this species coming back from the brink of extinction. I've been watching a nest, through live cam located in Hanover, PA. (http://hdontap.com/index.php/video/stream/bald-eagle-live-cam).  It's fascinating to watch the dedication of these eagle parents.  They are incredible hunters. The eaglets are almost 4 weeks old, and they are growing so fast.

 

 

There was a pair living on the American Legion bridge, just a few miles down the road from me. It carries the Capital Beltway (I495) across the Potomac River between Montgomery County, Maryland (where I live) and Fairfax County, Virginia. This being the Washington area, the eagles were known as George and Martha.

 

One day Martha was attacked by a wandering female eagle. She was treated for her wounds but died later due to an accident.

 

George, after a very short time of trying to defend the nest, subsequently took up with the interloper. Here's an old Washington Post article about it.

 

I think the eagles have since moved on I haven't heard anything about them in years, and I don't think there are any eagles nesting on that bridge anymore.

[Ellinas]

A little under 30 years ago I was a fresh faced Fundy, trying to tell my parents about "true" Christianity.  I don't think I was overly aggressive about it - but I would refuse to back down when challenged.  My father (who was the sort who liked to be in control of every circumstance) would regularly try to bring pressure on me.  Hence arguments that even I, the Fundy, was not looking for.  I don't recall the precise reason, but in one such episode, the question of the sanctity of marriage came up.

 

My father asked me whether I really thought it was right that a man or woman should be forced to remain in an unhappy marriage just because divorce was unacceptable in my brand of Christianity.

 

What did not occur to me was that this was a loaded question.  My mother was a divorcee.  My brothers and sisters are actually my half- brothers and half-sisters.  What he did not bargain for is that I would prove just as stubborn as he could be.

 

The result was that my mother left the room in tears, thinking that I had rejected her.  In fact, the question had not really impinged on my consciousness up to that point.

 

Anyhow, the point of this is that I was under attack and backed into a corner.  To maintain the "integrity" (in the sense of the completeness) of my belief system, I had no choice but to answer as I did.  The alternative would be to state that my understanding of the biblical position was wrong and that would call into question the whole house of cards.

 

I rather suspect that your husband is in the same situation.  He cannot be true to his faith without answering in a way that betrays you.  He cannot be true to you without answering in a way that betrays - and undermines - his faith.

 

I'm afraid the fear and the slavish obedience that Christianity engenders means that, unless the person being questioned is already deconverting, there can only ever be one answer to such a question - and it will not be one that will accord with common humanity, let alone familial loyalty.

 

It also means (I suspect) that he will have spent rather a lot of time going round in mental circles and attempting logical gymnastics to try to make himself comfortable with his reply.  He will eventually hide behind the usual apologetic crap about the wisdom and preeminence of god.  That will keep him going for a while, but it is an excuse not to think about the situation rather than an answer.

 

In a funny sort of way, you may have managed to sow the seeds of his eventual deconversion.  It's just a question of whether he has the intellectual honesty to see through the impropriety of the Christian viewpoint.  Even if he has, it is unlikely to be a speedy process.

 

For the time being, just be aware that what he says and feels are likely not the same.  Also, that he as well is a victim of the sinister brainwashing of this evil religion.  His answer to you was the faith talking rather than him.

[rach]

Sadly I am my adoptive parent's Isaac.  Understand my a-parents are very fervent, unwavering, maniacal Christians.  How they would love to bask in the glory of myself being "martyred" for the faith....the Christian's ultimate orgasm.  On the one hand, a-mum claims to love me more than anything in the world.  Except God and Jesus.  If she heard the voice of God telling her to stab me 100 times, she would stab me not 99 times, but 100.  Obedience, obedience, obedience is all she knows.  Obedience to God as the only morality.  To lay your greatest love on the altar, to ignore their screams and pleas for mercy, is her idea of the highest good.  A-mum believes that God the Father is the perfect ideal, though he butchered his own son, though he closed his eyes and ears whilst Jesus squirmed on the cross, "he did it all in love, and for a great purpose."  At the very heart of Christianity is the message: you can have great things for yourself, as long as you are willing to torture others in order to get them.  You want eternal life?  At the cost of a man's crucifixion, you can have it.  Christianity teaches absolute selfishness, not love.  Now understand why I am wary of all the knives and scissors in my house. 

[Sybaris]

I remember a man saying he would kill his whole family if god told him to because if god told him to then it's the right thing to do. The justification was that maybe god knew that his family was about to convert to atheism or another religion and so they need to die now while they are still Christians before they become corrupt. Or else maybe god knew that something worse than death was in store for them. Basically he thought if god was commanding it, then it must be for a good reason and was in his family's best interest. Yes, I know this is some messed up thinking but that's what Christianity does to you.

 

When it comes down to it, how can Christians think they are any different than oh I don't know ISIS or Taliban or Al Queda?

[mymistake]

 

I remember a man saying he would kill his whole family if god told him to because if god told him to then it's the right thing to do. The justification was that maybe god knew that his family was about to convert to atheism or another religion and so they need to die now while they are still Christians before they become corrupt. Or else maybe god knew that something worse than death was in store for them. Basically he thought if god was commanding it, then it must be for a good reason and was in his family's best interest. Yes, I know this is some messed up thinking but that's what Christianity does to you.

 

When it comes down to it, how can Christians think they are any different than oh I don't know ISIS or Taliban or Al Queda?

 

 

 

Unfortunately those other groups are following false gods and false religions while Christians have the true god.

[StillLooking]

A little under 30 years ago I was a fresh faced Fundy, trying to tell my parents about "true" Christianity.  I don't think I was overly aggressive about it - but I would refuse to back down when challenged.  My father (who was the sort who liked to be in control of every circumstance) would regularly try to bring pressure on me.  Hence arguments that even I, the Fundy, was not looking for.  I don't recall the precise reason, but in one such episode, the question of the sanctity of marriage came up.

 

My father asked me whether I really thought it was right that a man or woman should be forced to remain in an unhappy marriage just because divorce was unacceptable in my brand of Christianity.

 

What did not occur to me was that this was a loaded question.  My mother was a divorcee.  My brothers and sisters are actually my half- brothers and half-sisters.  What he did not bargain for is that I would prove just as stubborn as he could be.

 

The result was that my mother left the room in tears, thinking that I had rejected her.  In fact, the question had not really impinged on my consciousness up to that point.

 

Anyhow, the point of this is that I was under attack and backed into a corner.  To maintain the "integrity" (in the sense of the completeness) of my belief system, I had no choice but to answer as I did.  The alternative would be to state that my understanding of the biblical position was wrong and that would call into question the whole house of cards.

 

I rather suspect that your husband is in the same situation.  He cannot be true to his faith without answering in a way that betrays you.  He cannot be true to you without answering in a way that betrays - and undermines - his faith.

 

I'm afraid the fear and the slavish obedience that Christianity engenders means that, unless the person being questioned is already deconverting, there can only ever be one answer to such a question - and it will not be one that will accord with common humanity, let alone familial loyalty.

 

It also means (I suspect) that he will have spent rather a lot of time going round in mental circles and attempting logical gymnastics to try to make himself comfortable with his reply.  He will eventually hide behind the usual apologetic crap about the wisdom and preeminence of god.  That will keep him going for a while, but it is an excuse not to think about the situation rather than an answer.

 

In a funny sort of way, you may have managed to sow the seeds of his eventual deconversion.  It's just a question of whether he has the intellectual honesty to see through the impropriety of the Christian viewpoint.  Even if he has, it is unlikely to be a speedy process.

 

For the time being, just be aware that what he says and feels are likely not the same.  Also, that he as well is a victim of the sinister brainwashing of this evil religion.  His answer to you was the faith talking rather than him.

 

Your post made me remember my shameful past. If only I could redo a few years of my life when I was a righteous, judgmental and simple minded person who loved doing logical gymnastics all in the name of "seeking God"... If only I could wipe clean all those years from the memories of my acquaintances... Sometimes when the shameful feeling is unbearable I just have to force myself to focus on the "reparations" that I have done after that shameful period of my life.

[amateur]

I'm sorry you have to deal with this in your marriage.

 

When I was in high school, our youth leader's wife had just had a baby (and we knew he loved his wife and adored the new baby), and someone in our group asked him that if the baby grew up and didn't accept god/jesus and was sent to hell, would he consider this to be ok?  He said, "Yes.  If she doesn't believe in god, she would be sent to hell and that would be ok."  We tried asking some more questions, but he stuck to his guns.

 

When we walked away from him, we were all like, "You have GOT to be kidding.  That is just WRONG."

 

There really are some ideas that are just WRONG.