yunea Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I listened to some speeches from a Christian youth conference, and they were all about dreams. Well, actually, how your own dreams must die, so you can walk a path that God will mark for you with his signs. How you must not say you're in control of your life, how you must not think it's up to you to fulfill your dreams, how it's not good at all to put yourself first. How it's important to put others first, how it's important to do God's will even when it makes you suffer and when others hate you for it. Because when you die to yourself, your dreams, hopes, values, visions, everything that makes you you and give full control (and your money) to Jesus, you will receive something so much better. Several speeches all saying the same damn thing, and then one about goddamn school shootings. How one guy started praying over the town that had a school shooting some years ago, and oh, they started a café for young people and 60 scared, traumatised teenagers started regularly visiting it, just to hear they are loved as they are (whatever the hell that means), so God really really put himself out there to help, hooray. How about a god that could make the school shooter's gun misfire? No? Oh, ok. Also one guy was pretty great, saying "I looked at myself and figured out this: Many people are really selfish". So he's many people, or what? As for my topic... what was "the change" supposed to be again? I mean, I know I "changed" way back then, because making such a big step, wanting to believe in Jesus, was absolutely supposed to change me. Something had to happen, and I've always been great at self-hypnosis and such so I felt new urges and new repulsions for a while. But seriously. Since there is no holy spirit to guide you, no god, and no plan to replace yours, what comes of these young people full of hopes and dreams if they take it to heart that they must have none of their own? The ones who aren't as suggestible as I was and can't create themselves the "New Me"? All I can think of is empty and miserable, or at least very disappointed. The speeches were pretty centered on being successful and having rich lives anyway, not terribly unlike the Benny Hinn type, but still there's "he died for our sins", "forgiveness" yadda yadda...like the whole lake of fire is hidden somewhere there in their book. Whoops. Any thoughts? (edit: fixed some bad wordings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJeffTheIncomprehensible Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I listened to some speeches from a Christian youth conference, and they were all about dreams. Well, actually, how your own dreams must die, so you can walk a path that God will mark for you with his signs. How you must not say you're in control of your life, how you must not think it's up to you to fulfill your dreams, how it's not good at all to put yourself first. How it's important to put others first, how it's important to do God's will even when it makes you suffer and when others hate you for it. Because when you die to yourself, your dreams, hopes, values, visions, everything that makes you you and give full control (and your money) to Jesus, you will receive something so much better. Several speeches all saying the same damn thing, and then one about goddamn school shootings. How one guy started praying over the town that had a school shooting some years ago, and oh, they started a café for young people and 60 scared, traumatised teenagers started regularly visiting it, just to hear they are loved as they are (whatever the hell that means), so God really really put himself out there to help, hooray. How about a god that could make the school shooter's gun misfire? No? Oh, ok. Also one guy was pretty great, saying "I looked at myself and figured out this: Many people are really selfish". So he's many people, or what? As for my topic... what was "the change" supposed to be again? I mean, I know I "changed" way back then, because making such a big step, wanting to believe in Jesus, was absolutely supposed to change me. Something had to happen, and I've always been great at self-hypnosis and such so I felt new urges and new repulsions for a while. But seriously. Since there is no holy spirit to guide you, no god, and no plan to replace yours, what comes of these young people full of hopes and dreams if they take it to heart that they must have none of their own? The ones who aren't as suggestible as I was and can't create themselves the "New Me"? All I can think of is empty and miserable, or at least very disappointed. The speeches were pretty centered on being successful and having rich lives anyway, not terribly unlike the Benny Hinn type, but still there's "he died for our sins", "forgiveness" yadda yadda...like the whole lake of fire is hidden somewhere there in their book. Whoops. Any thoughts? (edit: fixed some bad wordings) Hi yunea, There is great power in suggestion, as you say (which is why advertising is so lucrative!). This whole change thing is even stranger if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior when you're just a kid, as I was. You are made to believe that you, little 7 yr. old Jeffrey, are the worst sinner in the whole world, deserving of a devil's hell, having offended the infinite god with your despicable existence--and all you need to do is pray the Sinner's Prayer and ask Jesus into your heart, and he will change you into something special! I did it. And I was still the same 7 yr. old kid. But I thought things had radically changed, which makes all the difference in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I suppose a conversion event does mark a change - at a purely emotional level, there is indeed a change of heart, a desire to follow another path. On that point the Christian concept is correct. However it ignores one simple fact. There's nothing supernatural in that experience. It is perfectly possible to be converted to atheism, Islam, satanism, Buddhism etc, etc etc... As most on this site can vouch, such a change need not be forever; and losing one's Christian faith is no less a change than gaining it was in the first place. The sort of speeches mentioned above are merely repetition of dogma with a view to creating conformity. Conformity, that is, to a religion that demands priority over all else in one's life and then tries to make out the suffering that results to be something good. No wonder the language had to be edited out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Hi yunea, There is great power in suggestion, as you say (which is why advertising is so lucrative!). This whole change thing is even stranger if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior when you're just a kid, as I was. You are made to believe that you, little 7 yr. old Jeffrey, are the worst sinner in the whole world, deserving of a devil's hell, having offended the infinite god with your despicable existence--and all you need to do is pray the Sinner's Prayer and ask Jesus into your heart, and he will change you into something special! I did it. And I was still the same 7 yr. old kid. But I thought things had radically changed, which makes all the difference in the world. I can only imagine, as at that age I didn't think about Jesus very much. But I have no problem believing it was strange! It also makes me really sad to think of little Jeffrey in that situation. I just don't get how little children are supposed to understand they're "filthy sinners". I didn't really understand it even when when I was a teen. It was always like, others were saying "we need Jesus because we're sinners", I was thinking "I need Jesus because my life sucks" and I didn't properly draw the connection "my life sucks because I'm a sinner". Heh, I wonder how many were frustrated with me back then. But thinking back on it, the more I think of it, the more screwed up it becomes. Thoughts are super powerful; without them homeopathy wouldn't "work", for example. I wish I understood it all better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 I suppose a conversion event does mark a change - at a purely emotional level, there is indeed a change of heart, a desire to follow another path. On that point the Christian concept is correct. However it ignores one simple fact. There's nothing supernatural in that experience. It is perfectly possible to be converted to atheism, Islam, satanism, Buddhism etc, etc etc... As most on this site can vouch, such a change need not be forever; and losing one's Christian faith is no less a change than gaining it was in the first place. The sort of speeches mentioned above are merely repetition of dogma with a view to creating conformity. Conformity, that is, to a religion that demands priority over all else in one's life and then tries to make out the suffering that results to be something good. No wonder the language had to be edited out... Well said Ellinas. thanks for participating. Some memories surfaced last night, about all the things I used to cling to when I had at least a grain of faith. I'd forgotten I had them, I'd forgotten they had to go away with my deconversion. I think I'll write about that in another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Was this Generation Unleashed? That is the group the daughter would go see once a year, a couple days of music and speeches. I didn't know these people did prosperity teaching, I thought all they did was purity and wish-they-were-muslim-terrorist type talk about societal takeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00LukeMan Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 What happens to those who take it to heart, to those who try their best to empty themselves of their plans, their dreams and their desires? They end up like my dad, a missionary overseas who absolutely hates it. He loves the idea of working for God, but the actual details (where he lives and works, who he works with, every part of the culture and climate) just make him miserable. He's struggled with it for years, wanting desperately to leave, but convinced that his God has told him to be there. I used to think that God was teaching him patience and trust and obedience, that the Divine PlanTM was greater than human plans. Now I just feel sorry for him, realizing that it's all in the heads of him and mom. If they wanted to live somewhere else, to do something else, they could. But they won't because they think they have orders from On High. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklingphoenix Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I don't really remember ever feeling a "change." Maybe it's because I was always brainwashed and never had any life experience not being a christian or being religious. I was saved for most of my life so I just tried harder than I was already trying after I got baptized. What you described about not being able to pursue your own dreams and having to die to yourself is one of the issues that caused me the most suffering. I used to have so much internal conflict and suffering because I had human wants and needs, and the church and "god" were always telling me I shouldn't want or need any of those things, but that I should want what god wants for me. Then I would be the most happy. But what the hell does god want me to want anyways??? I never heard any answers so I just made a decision that I thought was best. Turned out to be lots of life plans that I just now realized aren't going to make me happy. The change is bullshit just like the rest of the religion Everyone is faking it till they make it, in my opinion. Sadly, they will never get to that unattainable goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 All I can think of is empty and miserable, or at least very disappointed. Hits the nail on the head pretty much...and because there is this nagging emptiness they start doing weird things like molesting children or having other double lives. I pretty much had to start from the bottom when I left Church. Wo am I? What do I want? I felt really really lost...even before leaving. I think it was exactly this that made me realize how that isn't working. And the emptiness within me was like an ocean. Especially once I took out all the junk like praying, bible reading, worshipping...not much of me was left. It took me about seven years to reclaim my life. Or better to say to claim my life for the first time. Just now I get to a place where things start to fall in place. And guess what? It is just when I started to be selfish as hell...not caring about others but me...kinda like building up my own resources...that I have also become a better person to everybody else. For the first time in my life I feel like I do have something to give. So much to what happens when we deny ourselves versus when we start to take up responsibility for us and our lives and be selfish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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