Selling Your Soul To The Devil

[ExCBooster]

Famed guitarist robert johnson supposedly sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads. It is reported that he could not play the guitar at all. After this supposed meeting with the devil at the crossroads, he showed up to a gig right after and was able to play so good that people were speechless.

 

Deal with the Devil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Robert Johnson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes! musicians are the only ones I know of, aside from accusations leveled at medieval doctors of theology gone too far over the edge, like Faustus. 

 

The classic old timey bluesman back story. There's a great reference to Robert Johnson in O Brother, Where Art Thou?  (guitarist "Tommy" Johnson) and the tv series Metalocalypse (the episode where the band Dethklok is in a slump and has to go to Mississippi and study blues music to get back to their roots, and write better music. Again, as is traditional, you have to wait at a crossroads at midnight... Old Scratch got more than he bargained for, there...)

 

The thing with selling souls and musicians may go back to Giuseppi Tartini, who claimed to have sold his soul to the devil for music. Resulting, supposedly, in the extremely challenging "Devil's Trill" sonata in G minor. Beautiful music. 

 

Interesting bit of folklore, I think. As well as really clever marketing for musicians: not just regular talent, but supernatural. 

[GraphicsGuy]

Religion hurts people.......

And that right there is the only true argument needed against it. It absolutely should not hurt/damage people, but it causes vast amounts of damage. Something supposedly so pure and good should not be remotely capable of causing damage. That it does proves its own claims as false.

[moanareina]

Thanks for the replies so far, people.  Can you share more generally about the beliefs you once had about demons and spiritual warfare, if any, and how you worked through them and got to a point where you are no longer worried about any of that stuff?  Thanks.

 

So...finally :-)

 

Well, I had a basic idea of God and angels and the devil and heaven and hell since I had been introduced to christianity and that's when I came into my foster family when I was three or four years old. I can't really remember if it was my parents or other people (Sunday school, camps, children's hour...missionary stories we listened to on tapes) who initiated it but I know especially my dad confirmed the existence of a parallel world that we could not see. I also remember me crying myself to sleep because I tried to imagine eternity. The imagination of something that never ever came to an end just overwhelmed me and scared me as well. I also remember wishing to never have been born because that would have been the only way to avoid the question weather I wanted to follow God and accept Jesus or go to hell forever...

I gave my life to Jesus several times during my childhood.

 

When we moved to another village and left the old church my dad started a new church with a pastor from the lutheran church he got kicked out because he became too charismatic...

I was ten and that was when this believe about the devil and angels and demons got more serious with me. Somehow they had weird expectations for the children. We had to attend the first part of the service that was called praise and worship...and this sometimes went on forever (in a child's sense...and now thinking about my ADD...it was an eternity...). Then we went to Sunday school. I remember my grandma who taught Sunday school once told us, we would bother the services when we would go to the bathroom all the times. My mom allowed us to leave the service (she never liked that church and my parents had a fight about it every Sunday...yey) when we got bored. But we would run around the school where we rented the room and that caused them troubles...And I guess they truly thought it was necessary for us to sit through the whole thing. Anyways, I told my grandma, that sometimes I just had to leave to the bathroom because I needed a break. Her response: If you are with the holy spirit, you don't need a break. They never said so but it was believed that if people dance and jump during the praise session they where closer to the lord. This was just a little before the Toronto blessing hysteria broke out.

 

The pastor's wife started a class for adolescents where they wanted to indoctrinate us with more bs. One day I just got my period and my periods where pretty hard back then. Sorry for the graphics but I could literally feel the stuff flowing out and felt quite awkward. So we where standing in a circle singing songs and the pastors wife told us about how the christians in old times where so enthusiastic about Jesus, they danced and jumped around. Then she said, I am not stopping to play that song until everyone of us is jumping...so I was jumping, feeling more awkward, just to make her stop playing that song...as I told this to my mom she did not let me go there anymore. I think this was when she stopped going and looked for other churches instead...and the rumors about our family not being in the spirit etc. started. Of course it was the devil who was deluding my mom.

While I was still involved and my dad still joined that church I also attended the newly created youth meeting. And because I had no friends at school it was my refuge as sad as this sounds. I just started doing what everyone else was doing. Like lifting my hands while worship...and I felt good, as if there really was a holy spirit and all. It was weird. Now I still think I was not that aware of what they really meant but I took it at face value.

 

But then my dad gave in the pressure and we left that church as a family so he no longer had to deal with a "broken" family...and we went to a dry conservative church where my mom was happy. At least as long as she was not involved in any activities. My dad was unhappy now and he also spread the negativity about it. My grandma was still convinced that my mom was deluded by the devil as she was convinced my grandpa was deluded by the devil as well. He was a whole other story...a functional alcoholic who constantly talked about how he wished Jesus came back and ended this world and he could go to heaven (he then died at age 65 after surviving two heart attacks due to lung cancer, so his wishes sorta came true). He also talked to us about freemasonry and how dangerous they where and how they where the real enemy etc. because they served the devil.

 

When we left that other church I felt like we would get out of an evil circle. Really weird. I guess it was because of the abusive elements in that group but back then I had no concept of spiritual abuse and all.

 

In that new church I instantly found new friends. They organized an ester camp the weekend that followed our first attendance and I could spontaneously join. It was a good time. We had a great youth group that always stuck together after services and had some fun for Sunday afternoon. Also Saturday evenings where fun. But somehow that only lasted a bit more than a year and then it started to get slow. No one joined youth group anymore and ideas for Sunday afternoon activities got lame.

Since I still did not manage to make any friends outside of church I talked to a friend who worked for a christian music store. They had a monthly paper and a contact site in there. She made an ad for me so I could find pen friends. In that time I also hung out a lot at that music store, spending all my pocket money on christian heavy metal...and I met someone I knew from the town I lived before we moved and we biked back to where I live and he went further to his house before talking and talking...he was a talking machine...haha. Through him and the ad in that paper I have found people of the pentecostal church in this town. So I left the conservative one and went to the pentecostal one. We had an awesome youth group...also for a little more than a year...and the same as in the other church happened.

 

The end of this period fell into the Toronto blessing hysteria. Everyone was always promising revival...it was just around the corner. Then there came those messages about how we sabotaged God from doing the same as he did in Toronto and other places on the world by our sinful lives...how the devil kept us from the blessings of God. I remember a meeting with four churches from the region and one of them was the former church of our family. So my grandma was there too. I did not really know what this evening was about. But at one point the paster went: OK, lets put all the chairs away and start with the practical part. So they put all the chairs away and what came next looked like a freakshow. Everybody began to shake, scream or cry...or fell on the floor like an epileptic quavering etc. My grandma came to me asking me if she could pray for me. I told her not to and that I felt uncomfortable with this. Her response was: That's the devil. He wants to keep you from God's blessing. I told her I still did not want to be involved in this so she left, told someone else to come over and ask me if she could pray for me...I just felt like going and went to the bathroom, crying. There I met someone else crying too...we became best friends that night. And we still are. We left and went to another town to a hard rock cafe (needed some contrast...hehe). We did this quite often from that day on.

 

By then, for some reason I thought I needed to get baptized. I joined the preparation class and got baptized but also had a great crisis of faith and live at the same time. Also I had a sinus infection that did not go away for a while and since my parents thought I was just simulating I pretended to not be sick and did not go to see a doctor. So after my baptism my headache was so huge that I just had no interest in going to church anymore. I thought the devil was tempting me but something within me told me that was bs. It was then when I met other people through my best friend who called themselves Jesus Freaks. They where punks (or wannabe punks...) and tried to live a very open liberal christianity. The people where cool and I was accepted so I joined them. I liked the fact we just hung out on the lake shore on Sundays, having deep conversations etc. We had our "services" at a small place that was a christian information for drug addicts who wanted to start a therapy. And of course it was in the middle of the drug district. We had drug addicts joining our meetings and I think even though we all had heavy issues it was an interesting time. I never again was in touch with addicts that close seeing their ups and downs and hopeless tries to "fix" their lives. In my views this too was the devil of course. The owner of that information place also told us stories about demons and how they influenced the addicts etc.

 

Through these Jesus Freaks I got to know the church I then was part of for about twelve years before I left. We went there and always sat in the most far away pew (there was a balcony...), being for ourselves and eating our food etc...The first time we went I could not believe such a thing existed. It was really fun, cool music, the people seemed real and the message was simple and also funny. After a while I decided to join that church and said goodbye to the Jesus Freaks.

 

This church was nothing like any church I have ever been. They where not crazy weirdo charismatic pentecostal and not dry conservative. You could just be yourself (at least that was how it felt in the beginning). Also the devil was not that much a topic. It was more about how you live a good live and how you can follow God, how you can succeed in your job...practical stuff.

Sometimes there happened stuff that was crazy. Like in a camp where they baptized teenagers a teenager had one of those attacks that where considered demons not wanting to leave this person...tearing her around from one side to the other accompanied with her screaming. What else could it have been if you are in a believe system that includes angels and demons...

It was discussed once in a while how to deal with those kinds of situations and why the demons would not leave even though people commanded them in the name of Jesus to leave.

So at one point this became topic for sermons. They talked about how the one who prayed only had authority if he lived a life that pleased God etc. And how the demons left by themselves if you took out the garbage, means start to do necessary life changes (the garbage and rats analogy...). And how it was ineffective to drive out demons if you did not carry out the garbage...

 

I have no idea when this fits in timely but there has also been a time when I read all those famous christian books like This Present Darkness by Frank Peretty or one about a school where several students have been involved into satanism.

Satanism was a topic when I was in my seventh to ninth grade anyways. Somehow it was cool to be a satanist even for atheists...

 

When it all started to get really crazy for me was, when my friend told me about someone who did deliverance prayer. By then my believes about the devil and demons and angels etc. have become more balanced. But I had psychological issues and I went to counseling and did a twelve step program and some other things and it did not help much even though it helped some. So my friend told me about this because the wife of her boss was involved in it and she wanted to help me. She even went first to know and see what it was about and if she could support it. They had an information weekend and it felt so real. When they where talking I had such a turmoil within me, that all they said seemed to be true. Like there could be demons in christians even if they had the holy spirit because they got the right to be there through generational pacts and sins etc. Then they talked about alternative personalities and I felt even more turmoil. So to me this was real hope. I went through the prayer and it had an effect on me. For the first time in my life I felt total quietness of mind. No thoughts. Just peace. I also felt more secure as a person and even my atheist flatmate told me I seemed to have experienced something good. Those negative thought carousels I had when doing routine tasks like washing the dishes or hanging the laundry where completely gone. So this was a very convincing thing.

 

I then applied for a class to learn that method myself. It was an interesting week and I got some real weird knowledge. It was developed by a US couple called Ken and Sylvia Thornbergh (their ministry is called FreedomEncounters...just in case you want to google them to see what they teach). They where lovely and worm people and what they taught us made a lot of sense. They also taught it all in a very non pushing way.

 

So by then I thought it was my calling to do deliverance and prayer. I also thought worship would keep the devil away. I thought this world was all filled with demons who needed to be put in their places so people could finally find Jesus. I did spiritual warfare constantly because I needed to keep myself clean and not allow the demons to come back. And we got those monthly newsletters where there was something new every time we should be aware of. Finally I just got very frustrated with everything. Tired. I read the bible for hours, prayed for hours, worshipped for hours and still...felt like God was so distant. That was when I told my friend who introduced me to the deliverance prayer about my frustration and she gave me a book she just read (she worked in a christian book store and was responsible for the store including new books they took on stock, so she had to read a lot of books...and she was already moving on from all that spiritual stuff...). It was the best book she could have given me. I think it's English name is: So you don't want to go to church anymore by Wane Jacobsen (and some other guy). The German version was called: The cry of the wild goose (and I am thankful for that because I don't know if I had read it with the american title...). It is a neat story about a co-pastor of a church who meets a weird guy in the park who challenges his views about God and church. And always when he does not know how to go from there he miraculously meets that guy again who then questions even more of his views. It is a challenge, chapter by chapter to question your own views about everything. And that is what I did...

 

So eventually I saw no reason to stay at a church and sit in a pew Sunday after Sunday. I felt like there was no room to really find God in that setting. So I left. Still wanting to find God. A little bit was I afraid of being deluded by the devil but then again it all made so much sense. I read a few more books like: He loves me. Also by Wane Jacobsen. Then I joined the forum on his website thegodjourney where I could discuss devil and demon and other stuff with other people who left church and I listened to their podcasts. That was when my English improved to the level I have now :-). Through that podcast I heard about Frank Viola and his book: Pagan Christianity. I have found that one a really good read too and it convinced me to have taken the right decision. It became clear to me that demons and all have been used by the church to scare people into believing which was contrary to what God's love would be about.

Through the forum on thegodjourney I have found the forum on the freebelieversnetwork and listened to Darin Hufford's podcast for a while. I also discussed my devil and demon questions on there. I even wrote Darin an e-mail about it and he convinced me to just stop thinking about it and try to live like a normal human being. Then came out his book: The misunderstood God. It helped me as well to get rid of some fears that still lived in me.

 

And somehow finally I just started to live and trust my guts...and step by step I just got further and further away from any supernatural believes. At one point I stumbled over some article and I don't remember why I have found it...ah yes, there is a website that has documentaries on it...and there was one that had the title: Why I am no longer a christian. As I watched this whole three hour thing piece by piece more questions got answered. And this is actually how I have found this forum. I think it was linked or so...don't know. And about one year or maybe two later I joined.

[directionless]

Thanks, moanareina That was an interesting post. I've never attended a church where people acted crazy due to supposed spiritual things like the Holy Spirit or demons. That would be very disturbing and make an uninformed observer believe there is something spiritual happening. I think it would bother me even now that I am an atheist and skeptical.

[moanareina]

Thanks, moanareina That was an interesting post. I've never attended a church where people acted crazy due to supposed spiritual things like the Holy Spirit or demons. That would be very disturbing and make an uninformed observer believe there is something spiritual happening. I think it would bother me even now that I am an atheist and skeptical.

 

Thanks you, I am glad you found it interesting...because it got quite long

 

And you can be thankful you never experienced such things. It is scary. And it is very humiliating. For the person having the crazy episode but also for those watching not really knowing what to do. And then the rumors start...and because reasons need to be found to why this person acted this way and de "demons" would not leave...depending on who this person is and who is praying it is either the one who prays or the one who has the episode's fault. Example. If it is a new believer most likely it is not his fault because obviously he still transitions from a live in sin to a live in Christ...but if the one who has the attack is a believer already he must have hidden sin or something. Then if the one who prays is just a normal church goer...the blame also is put on him because for some reason he has no authority and that reason must be hidden sin. BUT...if it is a pastor...the blame is on the victim because...guess...

 

And if you just watch you feel pretty helpless.

I think if I happened to encounter such thing today I just might get to this person, giving her a hug and try to calm her down, helping her to find breath again etc. Because it seems like this is some sort of panic attack or other phenomena.

 

And yes, those things have really formed my believes. I think if I never experienced that crazy I would never have gone to the extremes...but...I also still might be in the whole manipulative system because I never questioned things. Somehow I had to go to the ends and I am glad I did. And it also makes me understand people who still believe such stuff. So far it has not helped me to talk with them about it...but I am sure I ll get there. So far though my godmother is the only person I am in touch and feel like it might come to this talk one time or another.