EyesOpened Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I don't believe any thing Christianity promotes but i was thinking of this the other day. What if God tempted Satan with power which caused him to rebel against God? You know, kind of like the way Genesis stated with the tree and Adam and Eve. What if Satan was setup to take this downfall by God? Trapped him if you will. That would make more sense to me than the way the Xtians set it up. It would also explain why the talking snake was trying to get them to eat the fruit, to try and warn them by giving them knowledge. This is all hypothetical but i would like to know everyones opinion on this train of thought. Satan could be just an average Joe just like the rest of us but got the worst end of the deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travi Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Interesting hypothesis, I had read somewhere else where an ex theology professor had said something similar: Satan was the good guy in the entire Bible story, an anti-hero if you will, because of his want to make sure that humanity knew what was coming on them if they just blindly obeyed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 A few things. As far as the bible goes, other than tempting david with counting his troops and trying to get 2 people to eat the fruit thereby disobeying god, i can't find where satan is the real bad guy here. According to revelation, the antichrist actually brings peace and unity to the earth and its inhabitants, but it is jesus that comes and takes that peace away and creates havoc and hell on earth. From the folklore i have heard, lucifer was the chief music director in heaven before he fell. If satan knew god to be all powerful, then why would he take him on knowing he would lose guaranteed? I think god did set up satan for the fall. He set up adam and eve in the garden knowing they would fall, so why not satan. Hypothetical it is, but your right EyesOpened, i think it was all a trap from the evil bible god from the beginning. -peace/cat 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 There are worse traps... (Sorry just couldn't resist using it ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 A few things. As far as the bible goes, other than tempting david with counting his troops and trying to get 2 people to eat the fruit thereby disobeying god, i can't find where satan is the real bad guy here. According to revelation, the antichrist actually brings peace and unity to the earth and its inhabitants, but it is jesus that comes and takes that peace away and creates havoc and hell on earth. From the folklore i have heard, lucifer was the chief music director in heaven before he fell. If satan knew god to be all powerful, then why would he take him on knowing he would lose guaranteed? I think god did set up satan for the fall. He set up adam and eve in the garden knowing they would fall, so why not satan. Hypothetical it is, but your right EyesOpened, i think it was all a trap from the evil bible god from the beginning. -peace/cat I never looked at the rapture standpoint like that CC. That is an excellent observation of the rolls being changed around and people are blind to see it! Satan=peace Jesus=war That blew my mind that i never put that together. Xtians always pointed you to the final outcome opposed to what was actually happening during the whole process. Very tricky belief system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 From the folklore i have heard, lucifer was the chief music director in heaven before he fell. If satan knew god to be all powerful, then why would he take him on knowing he would lose guaranteed? Even though I don't believe in any religious elements, I still find religion fascinating. my two theory's are Satan was the good guy all along. either he rebelled against God for whatever reason (maybe he didn't like the idea of hell, who knows). being the music director would be a sweet gig, so he wouldn't voluntarily rebel if he didn't think he could win, especially with eternal hell on the line. or as eyesopened suggests, maybe he was just the previous generation of beings created perfect then tricked by God in a system similar to the garden of Eden, and now he is understandably angry at God. God is apparently all about tricking people and taking them to hell, and now i'm starting to wonder if God is Satan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 18, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted May 18, 2015 According to the fable, God is in the business of setting traps and creating impossible situations. The story even eventually points out that it's impossible for humans to keep his law, hence the introduction of the Jesus sacrifice. He's a no-win deity. "For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."No shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you postulate an omniscient and omnipotent creator god, of course Satan was created by a god who had full knowledge of the future that awaited his creation and Satan had no choice but to fulfill that future. Goes with the territory. Not that any Christian is likely to follow the logic of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It is always the victor that gets to write history, right? War in heaven. "God" won. Gets to pin the blame on his father or brother or son or whomever ticked him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I don't believe any thing Christianity promotes but i was thinking of this the other day. What if God tempted Satan with power which caused him to rebel against God? You know, kind of like the way Genesis stated with the tree and Adam and Eve. What if Satan was setup to take this downfall by God? Trapped him if you will. That would make more sense to me than the way the Xtians set it up. It would also explain why the talking snake was trying to get them to eat the fruit, to try and warn them by giving them knowledge. This is all hypothetical but i would like to know everyones opinion on this train of thought. Satan could be just an average Joe just like the rest of us but got the worst end of the deal. Well, a lot of what Christians believe about Satan isn't even biblical. Satan is not mentioned anywhere in Genesis. The serpent in Genesis 3 is not said to be Satan or inspired by anyone else, but rather is simply a serpent who was crafty and could talk. The belief that the serpent was Satan incarnate is a later concept being forced onto the text, not something derived from the text. The so-called fall of Satan in Isaiah 14 is also taken out of context by Christians. Lucifer is not a name for Satan; the term is a transliteration of the Latin translation of a Hebrew term that means "day star" or "morning star" (which is why most newer Bible versions translate it such instead of using "Lucifer"). Isaiah 14 makes it clear that it is actually referring to the king of Babylon, while Satan is not mentioned anywhere in that passage. According to revelation, the antichrist actually brings peace and unity to the earth and its inhabitants, but it is jesus that comes and takes that peace away and creates havoc and hell on earth. Brilliant observation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 So much of the Christian lore about Satan is actually taken from Dante's Inferno (14th century) and Milton's Paradise Lost (17th century). That's why it seems true (part of the culture now) but is not actually found in the Bible. Many of these concepts are also included in modern movies and fiction, too, further cementing their lore. I did a research paper back in college for an art history course, looking at depictions of hell and the devil. This was pre-internet, and I tell you it was very difficult to find out where all this imagery and concepts came from. I pored over biblical references and religious books too, and even as a good, educated Christian I was shocked at how little the Bible actually says about the whole topic. It shows how easy it is to mold a religion over time to meet one's goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It is always the victor that gets to write history, right? War in heaven. "God" won. Gets to pin the blame on his father or brother or son or whomever ticked him off. If "God" is just a title, and being perfect or unable to be wrong is part of the title (like the pope or half the kings in history), then God could be any old guy (beat whoever was God before him) and not necessarily nice, or even sane for that matter. the only things we know of him are things he tells us, his opposition cannot speak, and there is no neutral third party to give perspective. for all we know, we are the kidnapped victims God keeps in his basement. If I was going to make up a religion, I would have something clearly and cleanly explaining what the situation outside of earth is like. Its incredible how much sway Christianity has over people, A testament to how strong a virus it is that people will sabotage, dedicate and destroy their minds and lives with so little information to go on. Side note: I have researched the whole historical Satan concept, there are some excellent videos on youtube for that, if you understand the historical evolution, misunderstandings and sometimes outright fabrication of Satan and Hell, It can strike a huge blow for your deconversion process. helped me a a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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