How To Move On?

[Guest biscuit]

Maybe this belongs in the spirituality forum but I can't get access yet - please could a mod move if it deemed appropriate?

 

I got into Christianity pretty deeply.  I had struggles but each time I looked to other people (Christians of course) for help, they advised me to read more of the bible, pray more, put some worship music on, go to church etc.  Because the people I turned to seemed to have things together, I kept on trying - in fact I went overboard.  However, this seemed to affect my mental health and the deeper I got into the bible, the more confusing it seemed and the more confused I was about my 'relationship' with God and the less secure I felt. 

 

Finally, as I was experiencing auditory hallucinations and was exploring 'deliverance', because I was so stressed I withdrew from church and started exploring other options. 

 

The thing is that from having been so heavily involved in religion, I have found that when I've been exploring other beliefs and spiritualities, it has coloured my perception so much that I've been running into problems.

 

For example - the belief about there being a devil and/or demons.  I looked into energy healing and spirit release and found that they believe in different entities - dark, light and false light, earthbound spirits and then as I read more about this, there seemed to be a whole belief system with them calling on archangels and Jesus or other ascended masters.

 

I read that Buddha also had an experience with a devil or demon. 

 

I looked into the idea of reincarnation and people's NDE's, spiritualism and vaguely at other belief systems.  Most people view Jesus as a very positive role model and as someone to appeal to and it seems that I keep being faced with this.  It seems that they don't see any problems with things he said.     

 

I've felt traumatised by some of the things that I've read in the bible - but I'm wondering if at least some of the things that are mentioned in it are true in some way that I didn't get when I read it as a Christian.  

 

I guess I'm wondering if I have been wrong in the way I perceived Jesus especially.  Did other people think that things in the story about Jesus were difficult, scary or off-putting?  

 

I really want to move on to a more positive healing belief system - but it seems that the stories that I read in the bible have had quite a hold.

 

Did Jesus really connect with 'God' or the 'Divine' in some way which accounted for him healing etc?

 

Is anything in the gospels or the NT true? 

 

I know that I can't go back, but did anyone else have issues over making peace with him?   

 

 

 

  

 

 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Hi Biscuit! When I left the church, I did explore other belief systems like Wicca, or just general "new age" ideas of spirit guides and psychic healing. I found that they have quite an involved belief system about various kinds of beings (just as you mentioned), and even "karma" which amounts to a law and judgment. I eventually stopped pursuing these because I found so many similarities to the beliefs I left behind. There really is no reason to pursue beliefs simply because other people pursue them or say that they are real. I occasionally look at energy healing because it is mostly void of "beings" other than what we can see. But appealing to beings beyond is mostly gone from my approach to life. The few times I've experienced what seemed to be beings are simply question marks in my mind now. I don't fill in the question marks with beliefs, I just wait for more evidence and in the meantime simply say "I don't know".

 

There is a great article on the main page of the website that talks about why the author settled on reality vs belief in invisible beings. I found that once I deconverted from Christianity, all of the fears of demons went *poof!* The invisible war between demons and angels went silent, because I no longer had fears or belief in sin. The quiet that settled in was wonderful! No gods were monitoring my thoughts for judgment, and I didn't need to worry about being in the will of some god who wants to hurt me. Once I knew it wasn't real, it had no more hold on me (though it took a few years to sort through habits of prayer and knee-jerk reactions).

 

The stories about Jesus healing are almost certainly fiction. No one outside of his cult wrote anything about him, and healing is something that attracts a LOT of attention, especially when there's no medicine around. The gospels were written by anonymous cult members, and the names Matthew Mark Luke and John were added long afterward. We generally disregard the writings of cults about their leaders, since cults always embellish stories in order to convert people. In fact, at least one gospel says "These things were written so that you may believe". They don't even pretend to be objective. So no need to fear or respect the writings at all.

 

The more you can be involved in real things, and the less time you spend on invisible beliefs, the more stable and peaceful your life experience will become. For me, I chose to start singing, and that takes a lot of time and work to do it well. I also like to garden, cook, and dance. All of these get me involved with people and get me out of my imaginary world that I naturally gravitate towards when I am unoccupied.

[florduh]

As with most who leave Christianity, I explored other beliefs still assuming that there simply must be a god out there (or in here) somewhere. In time I found all supernatural beliefs to share something with the old Christianity - total lack of evidence. For spiritual make believe I found Pagans to be the most fun, FWIW.

[Geezer]

Deism seems to work for some who have left Christianity. It has no tenets per se & Deists are free to believe whatever they want. The most basic idea of Deism seems to be a belief in the "possibility" of a creator, intellegent designer, etc. This creator, force, energy or whatever it might be designed (created) life, maybe it created, designed, DNA, and then it withdrew and let it's design function, mature, and evolve.

 

Most Deists don't believe this force or energy interacts with it's creation. Therefore, there is no need for prayer because it won't respond. Deism allows for just about any interpretation so if a Deists wants to pray that's okay and if they choose to beleive this force interacts with it's creations that's okay too.

 

i suppose it could be called a one size fits all kind of religion. It can be anything the "believer" wants it to be. It works for some people and it seems to be a rather common phase to experience for many who are in the process of de-converting. I identified with Deism for awhile during my de-conversion journey, but I eventually let go of that phase and moved on.

[PurpleStarGirl]

Hi Biscuit,

 

I was in the same boat you are but the more I research various aspects of the Bible and Christianity, the more I realize it's all a load of crap and was probably twisted to get people to conform to Christianity. I mean, I still have my days where I wonder if it's all true but shrug it off as my mind still being in the throes of deconversion.

 

Regardless, a lot of the scientific and historical evidence also doesn't seem to match up with the Bible says either. I've decided to remain agnostic until I see proof of any sort of deity existing but I'm open to the possibility of there being a supernatural realm beyond our physical one.

[Guest biscuit]

Thanks for your replies. 

 

@Fuego - it's a relief to hear that someone else has had a similar thoughts on other beliefs - yes, some of them are very involved.  I differ somewhat on the belief of demons though - rationally I think that they don't exist, but I have had some experiences where I have visualised things and also heard and felt things plus I've had some strange things happen.  So I've been in a bit of a fix as far as that has been concerned. I think its partly a hang up from when I was involved in fundamentalism that seemed to think that anything that wasn't endorsed by their church elders was risky and in the 'world' which they viewed as Satan's domain.  Thanks for your advice about taking up more real things.

 

@florduh - I have read of so many strange experiences that people have had, and have had some of my own that it has challenged my own beliefs and perceptions.  When I looked to try and explain things more recently I guess I have tended to interpret them through a filter based on beliefs influenced by Christianity even though rationally I can see there are lots of holes and inconsistencies in the bible accounts.  Even in coming out of Christianity, reading accounts of 'psychic surgery' and people 'channelling' information from other entities, and distance healing etc seems at the least to suggest that even if its the power of the imagination, that people be affected and  can affect each other in ways that we haven't yet scientifically understood. 

 

@Geezer - yes, I have been thinking about deism.

 

@Tiffani - reading what you've written makes me realise that I can see lots of problems with the bible, but because of experiences I've had where explanations seemed to be based on spirituality or the supernatural it has I guess led me on something of a quest to try and understand and find a belief system. 

[sdelsolray]

One thing that worked for me was to focus on and spend time with things other than religion.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

HI biscuit, good post, and nice to see you in the forums as well as chat

 

You've had some really good replies so far and there's not much I can add.  You might find the Skeptic's Dictionary website useful http://skepdic.com/

 

Applying a healthy skepticism to extraordinary claims has really helped me figure out what I believe and don't believe.  There is a saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". I think it was Christopher Hitchens who first said that (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that).  It's one thing to feel like you saw, heard or felt something, but if you can't get other people to verify it, then it most likely isn't real. IMHO.  It doesn't mean your experiences are worthless, not at all. They are your experiences and they are important to you, and I respect that. It's just that if something is real, most likely other people see, hear or feel it too.

 

Have a good look around at the website above, and read entries on things like coincidence, confirmation bias, supernatural, apophenia, synchronicity, and testimonials.  Try and keep an open mind to what the skeptics are saying.  They/we are not putting anyone down, we are just sharing what has been learned over the years about the way the mind works and why people believe what they do.  I have found it very helpful for learning how to evaluate claims or ideas that don't seem to have much or any evidence.  Good luck and keep us posted.  There is no such thing as a dumb question.  Most of us have been there ourselves.

[wyson]

chocolate or digestive?

 

Its so amusing to see that so many on this forum went through the same de-conversion stages. I thought I was unique and special!

 

I also went through an exploring other religions stage. I looked into Buddhism in depth and considered becoming one... but then it struck me that the core philosophies were the same world denying ones presented by fundamentalist Christianity.

 

I had to de-Christianise myself by researching Christianity first before I could move on. The reason I left it in the first place was because I felt its ideas were damaging. There was no point taking on other religions, giving different names and titles to these ideas and holding onto them.

 

Approaching the Bible / Christianity without presupposition about its truthfulness makes its ideas unravel pretty quickly. Once your Christian ideas have unravelled, you can see them from a better perspective and then decide if they should be accepted or not and then make decisions about your next steps from there.

 

May I suggest a nice Bart Ehrman book?

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

Hi Biscuit! Yeah like everyone said, what you are going through is pretty normal. Some of us search more spiritually, and some of us are more of a "rip the bandaid clean off" type. I am that type. I did not transition to any other religion or a deisitic belief system, but I am still in my deconversion process nonetheless. I am an atheist although I still think it's possible for some type of god or creator to be out there somewhere, especially if you get into quantum mechanics and multiverse theory, its certainly possible. But I maintain that it's nothing like any human idea of gods. There's probably a perfectly natural explanation for what we may consider a god out there. Maybe a whole race of them. But that's not what I need to put my focus on. This is the only life I have, and the sooner I can let go of this religious brain washing, the sooner I can purge my mind of the childhood indoctrination, the better off I'll be. So my advice to you is to take it one day at a time, and just give it time. You've already taken the first step by waking up and walking away from Christianity. I can't say for sure, but transitioning to other religions might make your process take longer. Sure, ripping the bandaid clean off hurts more at first, but its quicker. So its merely a question of what price do you want to pay for happiness and peace of mind? Pain, or time?

[kolaida]

Hi biscuit! 

 

Yes, a lot of us had trouble making peace with it. Though, I hadn't gotten to the point of seeing auditory hallucinations (actually pretty debatable, as a teen I did think a demon posing as Lizzie Borden was haunting my room and I thought I'd seen her a few times). I transitioned more to being an agnostic than any other religion especially after spending several hours a day on the science forums and reading other books based in science (becoming the evil science worshipper a youth teacher had warned me of, lol). The movie The Skeleton Key is I think what really made me start to rethink things and start drawing away as I had also felt like I was going a bit crazy with religious beliefs and after viewing that movie I could relate a little too well to the main character (only seen it ince and could still tell you nearly every scene). After that some personal experiences sealed the deal.  It took a few years to get to this point.  I feel very comfortable now, I admit at times I think I miss studying the Bible, but I still have my Bible and always shrug it off as it doesn't interest me or have that same draw I used to believe it had. I have gone to a Buddhists Temple a few times.  I don't believe in it, but sometimes it's nice to go somewhere that's so different than my former beliefs but a place where people still gather for belief based gathering, kind of comforting but far enough from Christian beliefs, it doesn't have the effect when I go to a normal church (wanting to tip pews and throw chairs lol.)

 

It's the start of a long journey, but it's definitely worth it.  If you are not surrounded by it (religion), it kind of disappears until it's almost a shock when someone brings it up without a joke and it's almost surreal; I always think, "Wow, this person would have loved me several years ago." And, sometimes people that you think have the same non beliefs as you turn out to be more religious (or spiritually) curious than you would have thought, but don't get too worked up over it.  There's been a couple people like that in my life, one moved away and started their own family (we chat sometimes)  the other died driving drunk the wrong way on a major highway, so life is always full of surprises no matter your beliefs. You've found a good home here and I hope it's just the start of your journey; you've got a lot of good people to help you through the roughest part! (Sorry for any typos, my Ipad does weird auto correct at times). 

 

Almost forgot to add the best part for me is no more anxiety about getting into debates about my beliefs.  As a Christian, it felt like DC Talk's What if I stumble, what if I fall song was constantly playing in the background and I was always so worried that I'd mess up and be the reason someone wound up in Hell.  I don't have a desperate edge anymore, I'm calm about debates if I get in any, I don't go covertly trying to identify any lost souls anymore, I've found myself now being the one identified by practicing Christians.  And I just don't need to try prove that my beliefs are right anymore, I state what I believe and if someone has a problem with it, it's their problem- where as before, it was my problem.  Been a huge weight lifted, it's fantastic!  Did take a while to get to that point though.