Black Atheists

[Bedouin]

Hi, something that I'm thinking about. Not sure if this should go here, so mods, please move if you see fit.

 

One of the things that I've noticed about the whole atheism thing, is that there are very few black atheists. I have found some relevant information online, that points out that this is a very culture related situation.

 

That is to say that religion in general, and Christianity in particular, is a core belief in the black community. It is very much bound up with the civil rights movement back In the 60's. This is because, it is believed, black people used the structure inherent in black churches, as well as the physical church buildings for meetings and discussion. Apparently, there were laws that prevented black people from gathering anywhere else publicly.

 

That is most probably true, however, I think that some of the messages and stories in the bible were used as well. I know from my own experience in church as a child, that the story of the Jews being led out of slavery in Egypt was heavily emphasized, and parallels were drawn to our sorrows in this country; the horrible injustices endured by our ancestors. This, from the very same bible that doesn't explicitly state that slavery is immoral, and in fact does offer justification in favor of the belief that the possession, use and even sale of other human beings is perfectly acceptable. The very same book that Caucasian Europeans used to justify slavery, it is held by some, was used to justify ending it. While I'm sure that there were black people, and probably white as well, that used the biblical story of Moses and the Jews as a basis of striving to end slavery, the reality is that the bible had very little to do with it directly.

 

When president Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation to "free the slaves," his decision to do so was not based on any moral argument from the bible. It was a war strategy designed to cripple the confederate states ability to supply the materials to wage war. In other words, Lincoln did not issue the proclamation to explicitly outlaw slavery, but rather his intention to save the union. Lincoln made this clear when he responded to an editorial in the New York Tribune espousing an end to the brutality of slavery. Mr. Lincoln wrote:

 

"If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.... I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free."

 

So, it is apparent that, regardless of how he may have personally felt about the institution of slavery, he did not use the bible as a moral compass towards its abolishment, because, in fact he could not. And he was intelligent enough to realize it.

 

Why, then, do black people in the U.S., to this very day, continue to embrace the very dogma that was used as justification to enslave them in the first place?

 

...I intend to expand on this further, and will post here as my thoughts make it to paper, so to speak. Any feedback is welcome.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Because they are emotionally attached to religion, and they don't understand the bible's true position on slavery.

 

As slaves, xianity was their coping mechanism.  Look at the lyrics of Swing Low, Sweet Chariot. It is all about dreaming of heaven, as a way to survive the hell they lived with.  Just like the long line of Baptists that I come from, they raised their children to believe in the xian god, and when you indoctrinate children before their belief immune system is strong enough and they have the ability to reason, the god virus is passed on.  And so it continues through the generations.

 

This intergenerational transmission of the god virus works, I think, fairly similarly among blacks and non blacks.  Pew Research data supports the view that non blacks are deconverting at a faster rate.  This may be because non blacks have, on average, higher educational attainment, which is likely due to better socioeconomic status and several other factors.

 

I think the key to helping more people deconvert is education, particularly of the secular kind. Improving overall education in the US would help, as would focusing on educational outcomes for black kids.  There also needs to be better social and health outcomes for those kids.  It would not surprise me at all if the data showed poorer general and mental health among black kids.  Improving these would lead to higher rates of deconversion.

 

Finally, more black male and female role models in the nonbelieving community, and more support for those leaving the faith.

 

It's a huge job, but we should be talking about it and working on it. Excellent post, Bedouin.

[Jeff]

There is a lot of peer pressure to conform religiously and politically according to the conversations I've had with coworkers in the past. They would keep their nonconforming ideas to themselves when at church or with family to keep from getting harassed over it.

And I agree that black politics is heavy with religious overtones. Rev Jesse Jackson etc... Whatever. He's a political figure and not any kind of minister.

My coworkers were inseparable from their church/support network.

[Fweethawt]

Islam sucks up the black christian stragglers like a sponge.

[Bedouin]

Nowadays, you're more likely to see mixed race congregations, particularly in the "mega churches." But in the urban areas, not so much. In addition, there are far more black women actively involved than black men. In fact more often than not, the men are the pastors. But I digress.

 

This is something posted on FB today by a black woman that I went to church with when we were teenagers 45 years ago:

 

 

...with the "type amen if you have Jesus in your heart" tag.

 

It's absurd! There were so many things I wanted to comment with, but I honestly could not find an appropriate way to express my disgust.

 

Now, I know that white Christians post things that are equally dumb, but I really want to explore the differences between the issues, social issues in particular, that aren't addressed in the atheistic world view as a whole, because, in my opinion, black people here in the U.S. face oppression on a different level altogether.

[Blood]

Why, then, do black people in the U.S., to this very day, continue to embrace the very dogma that was used as justification to enslave them in the first place?

 

 

It isn't that perplexing. 

 

They identified with the Israelites in the Exodus, not the "slaves obey your masters" lines in the NT. God was going to liberate them just like he did the Israelites. All they had to do was be MORE fervent in their dedication to YHWH and Little YHWH than the white folks, aka the Egyptians. Since they were oppressed, God was obviously on their side, because he was on the side of the oppressed in the Bible. And yet the Jews kept betraying that trust. They wouldn't make that same mistake. No way! It was one-hundred percent dedication to the Lord. This life may be awful, but at least YHWH is going to reward them big-time in heaven. 

 

Church was the only area of society in which a poor black person could dress up in nice clothes, and feel dignified in a society pathologically dedicated to ensuring that they felt inferior and remained that way. "All men are equal in the eyes of God" is the most powerful mental weapon against that soul-destroying influence. 

 

Until extremely recently, black people were almost completely shut out of the political process. Some of them could vote, in the north they could even join a union (though it also was probably segregated), but rarely could a black person run for office or participate meaningfully in the political process. The ONLY social area that they were allowed by whites to have relative social power was in religion, and that religion had better be one accepted by whites ... no Nation of Islam, or some other non-Christian weirdness. Church was their main social club, their political party, their everything. 

 

They are aware that the Bible was used to justify their slavery. And they dismiss that interpretation as easily as any other Christian dismisses the parts of the Bible they don't like. Those interpreters are wrong, they say. We are the true Christians! No true Christian would "misinterpret" the Bible to justify slavery. 

[♦ ficino ♦]

I have heard it said that the black church forms a community that has a lot more to offer many people of color than does the so-called atheist community - which usually isn't a community, and often does not provide in the flesh, real time support day-to-day or week-to-week the way the black church does.

[Blood]

I have heard it said that the black church forms a community that has a lot more to offer many people of color than does the so-called atheist community - which usually isn't a community, and often does not provide in the flesh, real time support day-to-day or week-to-week the way the black church does.

 

Absolutely. The church provides day care, health care, tax assistance, you name it. The "atheist community" does not provide those things. 

[Fweethawt]

I work with black people who "believe in" a mixture of christian, Islam and all that crazy Illuminati lizard shapeshifter stuff. Its amusing, to a degree, listening to them piece it all together.

 

That is until the WTF Factor hits you once you realize they are serious.

 

These people actually think they've "researched the facts" of all this stuff because they've watched several videos on YouTube.

 

Kinda scary, actually, now that I think about it.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I work with black people who "believe in" a mixture of christian, Islam and all that crazy Illuminati lizard shapeshifter stuff. Its amusing, to a degree, listening to them piece it all together.

 

That is until the WTF Factor hits you once you realize they are serious.

 

These people actually think they've "researched the facts" of all this stuff because they've watched several videos on YouTube.

 

Kinda scary, actually, now that I think about it.

Yeah, I get the same thing from people who think they're "researched the facts" of vaccination or quack remedies after watching several videos on YT.

 

Smh.