Talked With My Dad

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

This is an update to my previous post about talking with my dad and I started coming out to him but I chickened out. Well, while I was up in IN for my Mammaw's funeral, I was smoking with my dad and I told him I was an atheist. Just straight up came out. He had lots of questions for me, but I expected that. He seemed really perplexed as I used to have so much faith and even went to Seminary like half my family did. And yet, here I am. A bona fide apostate. I explained to him that it wasn't deception from the devil or liberal Democrats (to him there's little difference lol). I explained that I read the bible and studied it thoroughly while in Seminary and I asked questions and did not get satisfactory answers, and on too of that I had been through abuse by my male contemporaries in ministry and those things led to my faith breaking irreversibly. More study of the history of my religion led to my decision to deconvert. My dad is a great guy and I really hope that one day I can become half the person he is. He is my hero hands down. But childhood indoctrination has a hold on his mind and I don't think he will ever understand my perspective. He assured he still loves me but he is convinced that my soul is damned. Nothing I said seemed to get through to him. No matter how convincing my arguments were, it didn't seem to get into that thick head of his. But after he and I sobered up, we didn't discuss it further, and its like the convo never happened. So yeah. Whatever.

[TrueFreedom]

I'm sure that it will come up again in one way or another.  I'm still learning to choose my battles.  Good luck.

[Overcame Faith]

If you were smoking weed with your dad (which seems to be what you were saying), then I don't expect that he is going to condemn you for no longer being a believer. He seems very open and comfortable with his daughter whatever she believes or doesn't believe.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

If you were smoking weed with your dad (which seems to be what you were saying), then I don't expect that he is going to condemn you for no longer being a believer. He seems very open and comfortable with his daughter whatever she believes or doesn't believe.

Yeah my Dad is a Christian but he's never been particularly religious. He's basically a Christian because that's how he was raised and he doesn't know any different. He and I smoke weed and drink together and we discuss religion and politics. My dad probably acts closed minded around me when we discuss this stuff because he likes to argue, but maybe he is more open minded than I give him credit for. But he sure did irritate the piss outta me when I would bring up something from the bible and destroy his argument with it (That's easy to do, BTW, because the bible is so full of contradictions). Then my dad would be like, I don't know about that, I didn't read that part in the bible. I just have faith that what I believe is true. Then I would be like , "so you believe something even though you have no good reason to believe it?" And he'd be like, "No. I just have faith." ...."Dad, that's what faith is though." "No its not." "Yes it is." "No its not!"

 

Lol long story short, I love the guy and he loves me and I have a good feeling that even though we have plenty to argue about now, he doesn't see me any different or think less of me now that I've walked away from my faith. At least I hope not.

[Overcame Faith]

Sounds like you two have a great relationship! I could be wrong, but I seem to detect your dad having some fun with you with his statements about "faith". It seems like he understands your point about having faith without support for it, but he digs a little deeper to keep the dialogue going. You seem to have a super father and he seems to have a super daughter!!

[Daffodil]

I'm so glad he didn't write you off. As for convincing him, I think the longer one is a believer, the harder it is to let it go. He would have to admit to himself that he lived a lie for fifty, sixty, seventy years. That would be a hard pill to swallow.

[christar]

This is an update to my previous post about talking with my dad and I started coming out to him but I chickened out. Well, while I was up in IN for my Mammaw's funeral, I was smoking with my dad and I told him I was an atheist. Just straight up came out. He had lots of questions for me, but I expected that. He seemed really perplexed as I used to have so much faith and even went to Seminary like half my family did. And yet, here I am. A bona fide apostate. I explained to him that it wasn't deception from the devil or liberal Democrats (to him there's little difference lol). I explained that I read the bible and studied it thoroughly while in Seminary and I asked questions and did not get satisfactory answers, and on too of that I had been through abuse by my male contemporaries in ministry and those things led to my faith breaking irreversibly. More study of the history of my religion led to my decision to deconvert. My dad is a great guy and I really hope that one day I can become half the person he is. He is my hero hands down. But childhood indoctrination has a hold on his mind and I don't think he will ever understand my perspective. He assured he still loves me but he is convinced that my soul is damned. Nothing I said seemed to get through to him. No matter how convincing my arguments were, it didn't seem to get into that thick head of his. But after he and I sobered up, we didn't discuss it further, and its like the convo never happened. So yeah. Whatever.

What did richard dawkins say about adults indoctrinating children....?

[GraphicsGuy]

He and I smoke weed and drink together and we discuss religion and politics.

This always throws me when I hear about Christians smoking and drinking. I was raised with the belief that you can't be a Christian if you even give drugs and alcohol a second glance.

 

Okay, so I was obviously raised in a stricter system-of-belief and other people don't have those same beliefs. I find it interesting that I still balk at that though.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

 

He and I smoke weed and drink together and we discuss religion and politics.

This always throws me when I hear about Christians smoking and drinking. I was raised with the belief that you can't be a Christian if you even give drugs and alcohol a second glance.Okay, so I was obviously raised in a stricter system-of-belief and other people don't have those same beliefs. I find it interesting that I still balk at that though.

Yeah GG, I am aware that many Christians believe that you can't be a Christian and do any type of drugs or alcohol. In my dad's particular denomination, they believe the whole Once Saved Always Saved doctrine and you can still sin but you are still a Christian. You have to feel super guilty about your sin too and you have to repent immediately after you do it. Yeah. It's stupid. Even when I was Christian I thought my dad's theology made little sense and I moved toward fundamentalism because I didn't wanna be a hypocrite like my dad. Now I am chilling out and smoking and drinking with him, not giving a single fuck about it. I think his OSAS doctrine is part of the reason why he's having such a hard time accepting my deconversion. The whole concept of walking away from Christianity is beyond his capacity to comprehend. It completely shatters his theology.

[GraphicsGuy]

The whole concept of walking away from Christianity is beyond his capacity to comprehend. It completely shatters his theology.

Ahhhh...that makes a fair bit of sense...sort of...I'm trying to wrap my mind around how his brain must be tripping over itself right now.

 

If someone believes that we are OSAS, then how does that compute when one simply stops believing at all?

 

Is an atheist just living in a super-long "sin state" without repentance?

 

OSAS just seems like a "get out of jail free" card and if you stop believing in the jail then what is the point of belief at all?

 

What the hell is the point of OSAS?

 

(Sorry, I'm the "all-or-nothing" type when it comes to organized religion, so I find the incomprehensible-ness of OSAS somewhat fascinating).

 

I really can imagine how much your deconversion is completely fucking with his head.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

 

The whole concept of walking away from Christianity is beyond his capacity to comprehend. It completely shatters his theology.

Ahhhh...that makes a fair bit of sense...sort of...I'm trying to wrap my mind around how his brain must be tripping over itself right now.If someone believes that we are OSAS, then how does that compute when one simply stops believing at all?Is an atheist just living in a super-long "sin state" without repentance?OSAS just seems like a "get out of jail free" card and if you stop believing in the jail then what is the point of belief at all?What the hell is the point of OSAS?(Sorry, I'm the "all-or-nothing" type when it comes to organized religion, so I find the incomprehensible-ness of OSAS somewhat fascinating).I really can imagine how much your deconversion is completely fucking with his head.

Exactly, GG. His mind was totally blown over the idea of me being an apostate. I mean, I can totally debunk OSAS doctrine with several verses of scripture, even when I was a fundy. Matthew 7:21-23 is an excellent example that OSAS is bullshit. Also, Hebrews 6:4-6 is incredibly devastating for OSAS as well. There's like ten passages that can blow this doctrine out of the water. But that's not the point. I am holding out hope that maybe my dad will read the bible for himself and see with his own eyes that he's been lied to his whole life. And he can join me in my happy little world of athiesm and see for himself that apostasy isn't so bad. No one is going to torture his everlasting soul. No devils or boogymen are waiting outside the hedge of religion to torment his mind or body. He can just be himself with no guilt or shame attached. He's my daddy and I love him and want him to be happy. Right now, he's not happy.

 

Oh I forgot to tell you guys! You know what he said that night? We were both high so take this with a grain of salt, but I was all like, "Ya know, Dad, you really should read the bible for yourself. It may help you in more ways than one."

 

He replies without missing a beat," And become an apostate like you? No thanks.I'll leave well enough alone. "

 

We stared at each other a second and we laughed and laughed and then we went to the kitchen and baked a cake and muched on Doritos.

[EyesOpened]

Good to hear this.

 

I think a child approaching a parent in a case like this has many obstacles to get past. I think the biggest one is "The Peer Obstacle". I am 42 and i STILL face this with my own father. Here is a question for you. When you were talking to your father do you think he was looking at you as a peer or daddy's little girl? I am not saying he doesn't respect you, but i think he might have you FILED in a different respect than if you were, lets say, his best friend for life, or maybe someone he grew up with.

 

Parents tend to have this mentallity of "you are never done raising your kids" and they might look at this situation as another time to help guide their kids instead of them really taking in the data and thinking about it.

What do you think?

 

Btw, I am asking this as a general question. I am not saying your dad is doing this. Sounds like a real stand up guy and glad you two got to talk about this.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

Good to hear this.

I think a child approaching a parent in a case like this has many obstacles to get past. I think the biggest one is "The Peer Obstacle". I am 42 and i STILL face this with my own father. Here is a question for you. When you were talking to your father do you think he was looking at you as a peer or daddy's little girl? I am not saying he doesn't respect you, but i think he might have you FILED in a different respect than if you were, lets say, his best friend for life, or maybe someone he grew up with.

Parents tend to have this mentallity of "you are never done raising your kids" and they might look at this situation as another time to help guide their kids instead of them really taking in the data and thinking about it.

What do you think?

Btw, I am asking this as a general question. I am not saying your dad is doing this. Sounds like a real stand up guy and glad you two got to talk about this.

Actually, Eyes, that's a really good point. My dad may not ever get past the fact that I'm his baby girl and even though I'm a 31 year old grown ass woman, he may never see me as a peer. But I don't think that's a parent's job anyway. Sometimes parents never take off the hat no matter how old they and their children become. This can also be a point of contention between us and I've never thought of it that way.