The Annihilation Of The Hitler Claim (tm)

[Thurisaz]

...and look what he found:

 

While the Czech clergyman was subjective in his attitude toward his people and objective only toward the Church, the German pastor was subjectively devoted to the Church and remained objective toward the nation. A phenomenon which, to our misfortune, we can observe equally well in thousands of other cases.

 

This is by no means a special legacy of Catholicism, but with us it quickly corrodes almost every institution, whether it be governmental or ideal.

 

Let the German people be raised from childhood up with that exclusive recognition of the rights of their own nationality, and let not the hearts of children be contaminated with the curse of our 'objectivity,' even in matters regarding the preservation of their own ego. Then in a short time it will be seen that (presupposing, of course, a radically national government) in Germany, as in Ireland, Poland, or France, the Catholic will always be a German.

 

Verily a man cannot serve two masters. And I consider the foundation or destruction of a religion far greater than the foundation or destruction of a state, let alone a party.

 

It is certain that at all times unscrupulous scoundrels have not shunned to make even religion the instrument of their political bargains (for that is what such rabble almost always and exclusively deal in): but just as certainly it is wrong to make a religious denomination responsible for a number of tramps who abuse it in exactly the same way as they would probably make anything else serve their low instincts.

 

All quotes taken from the online copy of Mein Kampf found at stormfront.org, volume 1, chapter 3; emphasis added by me.

 

Next time a fundie fucktard comes up with the tired old "hitler was an atheist!!!111!!!!", shove this down its throat and watch it choke

[Guest KalEl]

...and look what he found:

 

While the Czech clergyman was subjective in his attitude toward his people and objective only toward the Church, the German pastor was subjectively devoted to the Church and remained objective toward the nation. A phenomenon which, to our misfortune, we can observe equally well in thousands of other cases.

 

This is by no means a special legacy of Catholicism, but with us it quickly corrodes almost every institution, whether it be governmental or ideal.

 

Let the German people be raised from childhood up with that exclusive recognition of the rights of their own nationality, and let not the hearts of children be contaminated with the curse of our 'objectivity,' even in matters regarding the preservation of their own ego. Then in a short time it will be seen that (presupposing, of course, a radically national government) in Germany, as in Ireland, Poland, or France, the Catholic will always be a German.

 

Verily a man cannot serve two masters. And I consider the foundation or destruction of a religion far greater than the foundation or destruction of a state, let alone a party.

 

It is certain that at all times unscrupulous scoundrels have not shunned to make even religion the instrument of their political bargains (for that is what such rabble almost always and exclusively deal in): but just as certainly it is wrong to make a religious denomination responsible for a number of tramps who abuse it in exactly the same way as they would probably make anything else serve their low instincts.

 

All quotes taken from the online copy of Mein Kampf found at stormfront.org, volume 1, chapter 3; emphasis added by me.

 

Next time a fundie fucktard comes up with the tired old "hitler was an atheist!!!111!!!!", shove this down its throat and watch it choke

 

 

 

Hitler had a warped sense of the Christian faith, same as anyone else who uses Christianity to justify their hatred towards others.

[Asimov]

Hitler had a warped sense of the Christian faith, same as anyone else who uses Christianity to justify their hatred towards others.

 

According to you.

[Kuroikaze]

 

 

Hitler had a warped sense of the Christian faith, same as anyone else who uses Christianity to justify their hatred towards others.

 

this means virtually all christians have a warped sense of christian faith, because almost all of them use it ti justify their hate towards other....if they didn't then we would have a problem with allowing gay marraige in this country

 

 

this biggest problem I see with your statement though is that its simply a traditional "no true scotsman" fallacy.

 

You say, "christians don't do things X (doesn't even matter what X happens to be)

We say "well here is an example of a christian doing X

you say "well he wasn't a "REAL" christian (whatever the hell that means)

 

you just move the bar to fit your preconcived notion.

 

Never mind that if one wanted to commit genocide they could easily provide scripture that justified it.

[Lycorth]

Xianity is warped, period. Even the Holah Babble cannot agree with itself. How can a Xian not have a warped view of what is a warped religion?

 

In my days as a National Socialist, I was also a fervent Xian - Catholic, to be precise. I spent a lot of time trying to reconcile Xianity and Nazism, and I referred to Mein Kampf quite often. It really wasn't hard; there is little in Mein Kampf that goes against Xianity, and there is equally little evidence the Nazi state tried to eradicate Xianity. On the other hand, there were Nazis who were against Xianity (Reichsfuhrer-SS Heinrich Himmler, for starters), but any actions against Xianity were basically forbidden by Hitler. Xianity was simply the predominant religion at the time, and the vast majority of German citizens and military personnel alike were Xians of some stripe. I'm certain the Nazi state would've ended up whittling Xianity out of popularity, since any religious figure could've been arrested and interred if they were thought to be detrimental to the state, but at the time it was probably just easier to keep it and play upon the parts of Xianity that helped further their agenda.

 

Heathens and Athiests in the Nazi movement today will have contortions if you try to tell them that, but it's still the truth. Granted, just about any religion is almost fully compatible with Nazism; with the exception of the various hatreds Nazism stirs up, there's not a belief system (amongst whites, at least) that is diametrically opposed to Nazism. The same applies in reverse; there is not a belief system that is directly in support of it, either. However, ironically, the receptivity to free-thought that beliefs such as Deism, Atheism, and Agnosticism have as key (if implied) tenents are the incompatible features, since Nazism isn't about free-thinking, and the various Heathen religions that exist are also firmly in support of free-thinking.

 

Indeed, the best counter to extremes such as Nazism and Communism, etc, are the beliefs which support and encourage freedom of thought and belief. Xianity simply does not do that.

[Antlerman]

I have to jump in here and announce that our current fundi Txviper butted into a conversation in the Coliseum which he was not part of and.... equated ME with Hitler!!!

 

Why did he do this you ask? Because I am an atheist and I said that, "My battle" in reference to my "struggle" over overcoming the poisonous doctrines of the Church that suppressed the liberty of my spirit. In his mind it seems being an atheist and using the word "battle" makes me like fucking Hitler!!

 

To Tx: In this more appropriate forum -- you owe me a genuine, heartfelt public apology. You are an offensive and damaging representative of your faith. You should be ashamed of your behavior as a Christian. I certainly am. I want to be able to find some good in your beliefs, and your behavior most definitely doesn't help me in that sincere desire. It only pushes me further away.

 

If you can show the fruits of the Spirit as described in your Bible, then maybe, just maybe I and others might listen to what you have to say. This comment was totally unfounded and offensive and you must apologize to me for that. Otherwise your entire credibility and any respect here is forever forfeit by you.

[Lycorth]

Antlerman, Xians are taught that Hitler was an Athiest and Xianity was all about love and freedom. It's yet one more part of his indoctrination that he has to deprogram. An apology is called for, but don't expect one.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Hitler had a warped sense of the Christian faith, same as anyone else who uses Christianity to justify their hatred towards others.

 

The bible is full of god-directed genocide and commands to "hate your parents" and stone this person and that person and the new testament has its fair share of anti-jew passages.

 

Who are you to say that Hitler had a warped sense of christianity just because he emphasized different bible verses than you choose to emphasize? There is not now, nor has there ever been a single interpretation of the bible or of what a TrueChristian™ should believe. Hitler embodied some of the worst parts of the bible, but they are parts of the bible nevertheless.

[JeffXL]

That is an oft-told lie by fucktard Fundies. And they always spew the bullshit that Hitler et al. weren't "True Christians™." Any excuse. Hitler's willing executioners were Christian-- only one church body opposed the Nazis.

 

Before any of you Christians try to lie about this one, take a look at:

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

 

Here are the photographs:

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

[Eponymic]

 

Hitler had a warped sense of the Christian faith, same as anyone else who uses Christianity to justify their hatred towards others.

 

Right, you mean like any Christian who justifies hatred of homosexuality, inequality for women/or all mankind, self-hatred, etc etc?

 

So just about every Christian alive (as stated above).

[Karl-777]

In light of the subject matter of this thread, I may as well post this again:

 

"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and unshakeable faith, that he [Hitler] was sent to us by God to save Germany."

~Hermann Göring('Hitler's Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich's Most Notorious Henchmen,' Berkley Books, 1990)

....compared to:

I think George Bush is going to win in a walk. I really believe that I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election of 2004. It's shaping up that way. The Lord has just blessed him.... I mean, he could make terrible mistakes and comes out of it. It doesn't make any difference what he does, good or bad. God picks him up because he's a man of prayer and God's blessing him.

{crediting George W. Bush with Pat Robertson's decision to resign as president of the Christian Coalition:}

"I think Robertson stepped down because the position has already been filled ... (Bush) is that leader right now."

 

George W. Bush in an address to an Amish community in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Jul. 9, 2004 stated:"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."

 

Dubya's dictator comment is a classic, spoken at Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2000:

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier... just so long as I'm the dictator." ~Comment during his first trip to D.C. as President-Elect

 

Here's another by George W. Bush, this time from New Orleans, Louisiana, Jan. 15, 2004: "It's not a dictatorship in Washington, but I tried to make it one in that instance."~ Comment during his executive order making faith-based groups eligible for federal subsidies

 

Then there's this:

 

"The Führer wanted to achieve the unification of the Protestant Evangelical Churches by appointing a REICH BISHOP, so that there would be a high Protestant church dignitary as well as a high Catholic church dignitary."

~Hermann Göring (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol.9)

 

"Adolf Hitler gave us back our faith. He showed us the true meaning of religion. He came to take us from the faith of our fathers? No, he has come to renew for us the faith of our fathers and to make us new and better things. Just as Christ made his twelve disciples into a band faithful to the martyr's death whose faith shook the Roman Empire, so now we witness the same spectacle again: Adolf Hitler is the true Holy Ghost."

~Hans Kerrl, addressing SA leaders, Brunswick, 19 November 1935

(interestingly enough, the same HG claim has been made about Christian cultist Moon's wife...)

.....compared to:

"So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

 

~ 'The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right' in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture, No. 1 (Spring, 1982), page 25

 

"A Jew is for me an object of disgust. I feel like vomiting when I see one. Christ could not possibly have been a Jew. It is not necessary to prove that scientifically-- it is a fact."

~Joseph Goebbels, in his attempt to win the eternal gratitude of Hitler, (Hitler's Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich's Most Notorious Henchmen," Berkley Books, 1990)

With present-day neo-con religio-fascists, they will substitute the words gay, Pagan, atheist, feminist for the word "Jew" in the above. Don't believe it?...read this:

{commenting on the then two-day-old 9/11 tragedy}

"I really believe that the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

and rabid Xtian reconstructionist R. J.Rushdooney stated: "But integration and equality are myths; they disguise a new segregation and a new equality...Every social order institutes its own program of separation or segregation. A particular faith and morality is given privileged status and all else is separated for progressive elimination."

(~ 'The Institutes of Biblical Law' (Nutley, NJ: Craig Press, 1973), page 296)

 

The current unholy alliance between the statist oligarchists and the neo-con religionists is a great threat to Liberty. The brain-dead fundie sheeple have no capcity to think on their own, and will kowtow to the every whim and dictate of the control-mongering prelates. The nightmare stock-market crash of 1929 and following great depression were the result of the greed of the Republicans who, like today, controlled the Presidency and Congress. The sheeple are, of course, too stupid to learn from history, or its warnings. (which suits the statists just fine) Speaking of Nazis:

 

{cited in its entirity from http://www.lpdallas.org/features/draheim/dr991216.htm}

 

Why has Presidential candidate George W. Bush been able to raise uncounted tens of millions of dollars? It can't be because of his positions on the issues; he has scrupulously avoided taking many. It can't be because of his knowledge of world events; he thinks being asked such questions is a trick." (He will embarrassingly lie, saying that he knows the answer to a question, and half a sentence later admit that he doesn't.)

 

No, George "I'm No Longer Drunk" Bush's support is because the Bush family fortune is old, and it's big, and comes from a century old alliance with the most powerful interests on Wall Street and in industry. Worse, part of Dub-a-Ya's money comes from grandfather Prescott Bush's financial alliance with the Nazis.

 

On October 20, 1942, the US Alien Property Custodian, under the "Trading With the Enemy Act," seized the shares of the Union Banking Corporation (UBC), of which Prescott Bush was a director and shareholder. The largest shareholder was E. Roland Harriman. (Bush was also the managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman, a leading Wall Street investment firm.)

 

The UBC was established to send American capital to Germany to finance the reorganization of its industry under the Nazis. Their leading German partner was the notorious Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen, who wrote a book admitting much of this called "I Paid Hitler."

 

Among the companies financed was the Silesian-American Corporation, which was also managed by Prescott Bush, and by his father-in-law George Herbert Walker, who supplied Dub-a-Ya with his name. The company was vital in supplying coal to the Nazi war industry. It too was seized as a Nazi-front on November 17, 1942. The largest company Bush's UBC helped finance was the German Steel Trust, responsible for between one-third and one-half of Nazi iron and explosives.

 

Prescott Bush was also a director of the Harriman Fifteen Corporation, (this one owned largely by Roland's brother, Averell Harriman), which owned about a third of the Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation, the rest owned by Friedrich Flick, (a member of Himmler's "Circle of Friends" who donated to the S.S.).

 

Republican Presidential candidate Bush's great-grandfather, Bert Walker, helped organize the Harriman investment in the Hamburg-America Line of ships, of which grandfather Prescott became a director. It was seized on August 28, 1942 because it was used to give free passage to Nazi propaganda and propagandists, and had earlier shipped guns to the Nazi's private armies to assist their takeover of Germany.

 

Further examples would be more tedious than shocking. But, given these evil financial dealings, how did Prescott later become a Republican Senator, and George H.W. become President? Well,the two leading attorneys for these Bush-Harriman-Nazi deals were John Foster Dulles, later Secretary of State under Eisenhower, and Allen Dulles, future head of the CIA.

 

Prescott's father, Samuel P. Bush, owned Buckeye Steel Castings Co. which made parts for the Harriman brothers' father's (E.H. Harriman) railroads. Harriman's financing for the railroads came largely from William Rockefeller. These shipped the oil of his brother John D. Rockefeller, the founder of Standard Oil. (This was the origin of the two Georges' involvement in the oil business.)

 

Samuel Bush became a leader in President Woodrow Wilson's "War Socialism" as director of small armaments and ammunition on the War Industries Board (which set up coercive price-fixing cartels over American industry during World War I). There, Bush assisted Percy Rockefeller (son of William) in his takeover of small arms manufacturers.

The elder George Bush continued the family tradition of support for totalitarian governments by supporting the Communist Chinese in the UN, and by directly aiding its military as President.

 

Will the younger George Bush continue to support big government, or will he support free markets? His first political act was a tax increase to subsidize his baseball stadium. When libertarians and conservative Republicans were opposing the bailout of American banks that loaned money to the Mexican government, the Texas Governor supported it, because of his connections to those Wall Street Banks.

 

This is in keeping with the actual history of the Republican Party. It was founded in the 1850's explicitly as the party of high taxes to subsidize politically connected businesses, (then known as "internal improvements"). All Republican Presidents in the last fifty years have continued to increase the size of the government, and claims of support for free markets and lowered taxes are mere rhetorical cover. Texas Governor George Bush will continue that tradition.

and this, cited from: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/com-buchanan.html :

Documents in National Archives Prove George W. Bush's Grandfather Traded with Nazis - Even After Pearl Harbor

by John Buchanan (Exclusive to the New Hampshire Gazette)

 

WASHINGTON - After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners.

 

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law.

 

Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, continued their dealings with the German industrial tycoon for nearly a year after the U.S. entered the war.

 

No Story?

 

For six decades these historical facts have gone unreported by the mainstream U.S. media. The essential facts have appeared on the Internet and in relatively obscure books, but were dismissed by the media and Bush family as undocumented diatribes. This story has also escaped the attention of "official" Bush biographers, Presidential historians and publishers of U.S. history books covering World War II and its aftermath.

 

The White House did not respond to phone calls seeking comment.

 

The Summer of '42

 

The unraveling of the web of Bush-Harriman-Thyssen U.S. enterprises, all of which operated out of the same suite of offices at 39 Broadway in New York under the supervision of Prescott Bush, began with a story that ran simultaneously in the New York Herald-Tribune and Washington Post on July 31, 1941. By then, the U.S. had been at war with Germany for nearly eight months.

 

"Hitler's Angel Has $3 Million in U.S. Bank," declared the front-page Herald-Tribune headline. The lead paragraph characterized Fritz Thyssen as "Adolf Hitler's original patron a decade ago." In fact, the steel and coal magnate had aggressively supported and funded Hitler since October 1923, according to Thyssen's autobiography, I Paid Hitler. In that book, Thyssen also acknowledges his direct personal relationships with Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels and Rudolf Hess.

 

The Herald-Tribune also cited unnamed sources who suggested Thyssen's U.S. "nest egg" in fact belonged to "Nazi bigwigs" including Goebbels, Hermann Goering, Heinrich Himmler, or even Hitler himself.

 

Business is Business

 

The "bank," founded in 1924 by W. Averell Harriman on behalf of Thyssen and his Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V. of Holland, was Union Banking Corporation (UBC) of New York City. According to government documents, it was in reality a clearing house for a number of Thyssen-controlled enterprises and assets, including as many as a dozen individual businesses. UBC also bought and shipped overseas gold, steel, coal, and U.S. Treasury bonds. The company's activities were administered for Thyssen by a Netherlands-born, naturalized U.S. citizen named Cornelis Lievense, who served as president of UBC. Roland Harriman was chairman and Prescott Bush a managing director.

 

The Herald-Tribune article did not identify Bush or Harriman as executives of UBC, or Brown Brothers Harriman, in which they were partners, as UBC's private banker. A confidential FBI memo from that period suggested, without naming the Bush and Harriman families, that politically prominent individuals were about to come under official U.S. government scrutiny as Hitler's plunder of Europe continued unabated.

 

After the "Hitler's Angel" article was published Bush and Harriman made no attempts to divest themselves of the controversial Thyssen financial alliance, nor did they challenge the newspaper report that UBC was, in fact, a de facto Nazi front organization in the U.S.

 

Instead, the government documents show, Bush and his partners increased their subterfuge to try to conceal the true nature and ownership of their various businesses, particularly after the U.S. entered the war. The documents also disclose that Cornelis Lievense, Thyssen's personal appointee to oversee U.S. matters for his Rotterdam-based Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V., via UBC for nearly two decades, repeatedly denied to U.S. government investigators any knowledge of the ownership of the Netherlands bank or the role of Thyssen in it. Brown Brothers Harriman sent letters to the government seeking reconsideration of the seizures by using false information.

 

UBC's original group of business associates included George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, who had a relationship with the Harriman family that began in 1919. In 1922, Walker and W. Averell Harriman traveled to Berlin to set up the German branch of their banking and investment operations, which were largely based on critical war resources such as steel and coal.

 

The Walker-Harriman-created German industrial alliance also included partnership with another German titan who supported Hitler's rise, Friedrich Flick, who partnered with Thyssen in the German Steel Trust that forged the Nazi war machine. For his role in using slave labor and his own steel, coal and arms resources to build Hitler's war effort, Flick was convicted at the Nuremberg trials and sentenced to prison.

 

The Family Business

 

In 1926, after Prescott Bush had married Walker's daughter, Dorothy, Walker brought Bush in as a vice president of the private banking and investment firm of W.A. Harriman & Co., also located in New York. Bush became a partner in the firm that later became Brown Brothers Harriman and the largest private investment bank in the world. Eventually, Bush became a director of and stockholder in UBC.

 

However, the government documents note that Bush, Harriman, Lievense and the other UBC stockholders were in fact "nominees," or phantom shareholders, for Thyssen and his Holland bank, meaning that they acted at the direct behest of their German client.

 

Seized

 

On October 20, 1942, under authority of the Trading with the Enemy Act, the U.S. Congress seized UBC and liquidated its assets after the war. The seizure is confirmed by Vesting Order No. 248 in the U.S. Office of the Alien Property Custodian and signed by U.S. Alien Property Custodian Leo T. Crowley.

 

In August, under the same authority, Congress had seized the first of the Bush-Harriman-managed Thyssen entities, Hamburg-American Line, under Vesting Order No. 126, also signed by Crowley. Eight days after the seizure of UBC, Congress invoked the Trading with the Enemy Act again to take control of two more Bush-Harriman-Thyssen businesses - Holland-American Trading Corp. (Vesting Order No. 261) and Seamless Steel Equipment Corp. (Vesting Order No. 259).

 

The documents from the Archives also show that the Bushes and Harrimans shipped valuable U.S. assets, including gold, coal, steel and U.S. Treasury bonds, to their foreign clients overseas between 1931-33, as Hitler engineered his rise to power.

 

Still No Story?

 

Since 1942, the information has not appeared in any U.S. news coverage of any Bush political campaign, nor has it been included in any of the major Bush family biographies. It was, however, covered extensively in George H.W. Bush: The Unauthorized Biography, by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin. Chaitkin's father served as an attorney in the 1940s for some of the victims of the Bush-Harriman-Thyssen businesses.

 

The book gave a detailed, accurate accounting of the Bush family's long Nazi affiliation, but no mainstream U.S. media entity reported on or even investigated the allegations, despite careful documentation by the authors. Major booksellers declined to distribute the book, which was dismissed by Bush supporters as biased and untrue. Its authors struggled even to be reviewed in reputable newspapers. That the book was published by Lyndon LaRouche's organization undoubtedly made it easier to dismiss, but does not change the facts.

 

The essence of the story has been posted for years on various Internet sites, including BuzzFlash.com and TakeBackTheMedia.com, but no online media seem to have independently confirmed it.

 

In the 1990s, former U.S. Justice Department Nazi war crimes prosecutor John Loftus, now honorary president of the Florida Holocaust Museum, wrote a book and launched a web site (www.john-loftus.com) which did breakthrough reporting, including establishing the link between Prescott Bush, Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and forced labor at Auschwitz. Although the widely-respected Loftus established a successful international speaking career with his information, no U.S. newspaper or major TV news program acknowledged his decade of work, nor did he ever see many of the recently released documents.

 

Meanwhile, the mainstream media have apparently made no attempt since World War II to either verify or disprove the allegations of Nazi collaboration against the Bush family. Instead, they have attempted to dismiss or discredit such Internet sites or "unauthorized" books without any journalistic inquiry or research into their veracity.

 

Loyal Defenders

 

The National Review ran an essay on September 1 by their White House correspondent Byron York, entitled "Annals of Bush-Hating." It begins mockingly: "Are you aware of the murderous history of George W. Bush - indeed, of the entire Bush family? Are you aware of the president's Nazi sympathies? His crimes against humanity? And do you know, by the way, that George W. Bush is a certifiable moron?" York goes on to discredit the "Bush is a moron" IQ hoax, but fails to disprove the Nazi connection.

 

The more liberal Boston Globe ran a column September 29 by Reason magazine's Cathy Young in which she referred to "Bush-o-phobes on the Internet" who "repeat preposterous claims about the Bush family's alleged Nazi connections."

 

Poles Tackle the Topic

 

Newsweek Polska, the magazine's Polish edition, published a short piece on the "Bush Nazi past" in its March 5, 2003 edition. The item reported that "the Bush family reaped rewards from the forced-labor prisoners in the Auschwitz concentration camp," according to a copyrighted English-language translation from Scoop Media (www.scoop.co.nz). The story also reported the seizure of the various Bush-Harriman-Thyssen businesses.

 

Still Not Interested

 

Major U.S. media outlets, including ABC News, NBC News, CNN, The New York Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, Los Angeles Times and Miami Herald, as well as Knight-Ridder Newspapers, have repeatedly declined to investigate the story when information regarding discovery of the documents was presented to them beginning Friday, August 29. Newsweek U.S. correspondent Michael Isikoff, famous for his reporting of big scoops during the Clinton-Lewinsky sexual affair of the 1990s, declined twice to accept an exclusive story based on the documents from the archives.

 

Aftermath

 

In 1952, Prescott Bush was elected to the U.S. Senate, with no press accounts about his well-concealed Nazi past. There is no record of any U.S. press coverage of the Bush-Nazi connection during any political campaigns conducted by George Herbert Walker Bush, Jeb Bush, or George W. Bush, with the exception of a brief mention in an unrelated story in the Sarasota Herald Tribune in November 2000 and a brief but inaccurate account in The Boston Globe in 2001.

 

For excellent Truth-in-the-media, one can vist AIR AMERICA RADIO at: http://shows.airamericaradio.com Check out all the excellent radio programming, especially Mike Malloy and Randi Rhodes.

 

Also check out The White Rose Society at http://www.whiterosesociety.org

 

The goal of the fundies is of course a Xtian theocracy, as per Pat Robertson's comments at an ACLJ address- November/1993 "There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore." This is of course, pure bullshit.

 

Xtianity was founded in fascism, and our current Führer has violated the Constitution with the likes of "faith-based initiatives", etc., etc. The rabid Xtian fundie lunatics will not hesitate to seek out the statist, to assist in promulgation of their baseless dogma, in an attempt to foist it on the entire populace.

 

Founding Father Thomas Jefferson had the right and True perspective on the separation of church and state in a correspondence to Thomas Moore - 1800: "The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man." One does not get the impression from this, that our Founding Fathers had the slightest interest in "Christian nation". In fact, it was escape from Xtian religious tyranny and the oppressive oligarchy of King George that led to the birth of this Nation.

 

We WILL NOT let our precious Republic degenerate into the same thing....

 

K

[txviper]

"Why did he do this you ask? Because I am an atheist and I said that, "My battle" in reference to my "struggle" over overcoming the poisonous doctrines of the Church that suppressed the liberty of my spirit. In his mind it seems being an atheist and using the word "battle" makes me like fucking Hitler!!"

 

"...that suppressed the liberty of my spirit". That is so sappy, it makes me want to wretch.

 

The only point of comparison between you and Hitler is that in your search for the truth, you have decided that (1) everything that is wrong with you is someone else's fault and (2) you have narrowed the someone down to one particular group, namely anyone who takes the Bible seriously.

 

 

"In this more appropriate forum -- you owe me a genuine, heartfelt public apology."

 

Okay, I'm very sorry that you can dish out but not take it.

 

 

"You are an offensive and damaging representative of your faith. You should be ashamed of your behavior as a Christian. I certainly am. I want to be able to find some good in your beliefs, and your behavior most definitely doesn't help me in that sincere desire. It only pushes me further away.

 

If you can show the fruits of the Spirit as described in your Bible, then maybe, just maybe I and others might listen to what you have to say."

 

You have some milque-toast profile in mind for how Christians ought to act, and I don't fit it. You think believers are supposed to be pansies and I am not one. If you can't evaluate information or carry on a discussion unless it comes to you in terms that don't rattle your sensibilities, then your "spiritual" pursuit is going to be nothing but setbacks and tailspins anyway. Hell, you slipped into an "oh the humanity" episode just because I called shallow theologians "pinheads".

 

 

"This comment was totally unfounded and offensive and you must apologize to me for that. Otherwise your entire credibility and any respect here is forever forfeit by you."

 

No, it was not. You mischaracterized a group of people and blamed them for your shortcomings. You constructing a mental house of cards does not deserve an apology. If my recognition of this diminishes my credibility, I'm good with that. I've only rarely been greeted with respect here and I'm good with that also. I do not require it.

[Asimov]

blah blah blah....

 

That's odd, I have never seen Antlerman "dish it out" to anyone. He's always been respectful from what I've read in his posts and very polite.

 

If you could possibly provide any quotes from Antlerman including links to where he was disrespectful I'd like to see it.

 

As well as where he said that he blamed everyone else for his situation.

[Antlerman]

You have some milque-toast profile in mind for how Christians ought to act, and I don't fit it. You think believers are supposed to be pansies and I am not one. If you can't evaluate information or carry on a discussion unless it comes to you in terms that don't rattle your sensibilities, then your "spiritual" pursuit is going to be nothing but setbacks and tailspins anyway. Hell, you slipped into an "oh the humanity" episode just because I called shallow theologians "pinheads".

 

The role model for a Christian against which I compare your behavior towards others is your Jesus. You do not act like him at all as he is portrayed in the Bible. I was a Christian and I know what is Christian is supposed to be. You do not act at all like a Christian. You act like an complete asshole. In fact you probably are just an asshole who found Christianity to try to hide behind.

 

I see no futher need to try to speak respectfully with you as an adult.

[crazy-tiger]

"Why did he do this you ask? Because I am an atheist and I said that, "My battle" in reference to my "struggle" over overcoming the poisonous doctrines of the Church that suppressed the liberty of my spirit. In his mind it seems being an atheist and using the word "battle" makes me like fucking Hitler!!"

 

"...that suppressed the liberty of my spirit". That is so sappy, it makes me want to wretch.

 

The only point of comparison between you and Hitler is that in your search for the truth, you have decided that (1) everything that is wrong with you is someone else's fault and (2) you have narrowed the someone down to one particular group, namely anyone who takes the Bible seriously.

Shame... if you'd noticed, there was nothing said about the people. About the entire mindset that insists that people think and behave in one certain way, yes, but not the people.

 

So, has Antlerman decided that everything wrong with him is someone else's fault...? No. Has Antlerman narrowed that someone (which doesn't even exist) down to a specific group...? No.

 

Have you just constructed a pathetic strawman and made claims that have no basis in reality...? Yes.

"In this more appropriate forum -- you owe me a genuine, heartfelt public apology."

 

Okay, I'm very sorry that you can dish out but not take it.

Dish what out? The only one who thinks anything was dished out by Antlerman is you... and that's been shown to be a false accusation.

"You are an offensive and damaging representative of your faith. You should be ashamed of your behavior as a Christian. I certainly am. I want to be able to find some good in your beliefs, and your behavior most definitely doesn't help me in that sincere desire. It only pushes me further away.

 

If you can show the fruits of the Spirit as described in your Bible, then maybe, just maybe I and others might listen to what you have to say."

 

You have some milque-toast profile in mind for how Christians ought to act, and I don't fit it. You think believers are supposed to be pansies and I am not one. If you can't evaluate information or carry on a discussion unless it comes to you in terms that don't rattle your sensibilities, then your "spiritual" pursuit is going to be nothing but setbacks and tailspins anyway. Hell, you slipped into an "oh the humanity" episode just because I called shallow theologians "pinheads".

Do you have any problems when your assumptions are shown to be false?

 

You seem to have a problem living up to the profile that JESUS said you should act like. You seem to lack any of the fruits you should have. But since you are a Christian, I guess that the way the BIBLE says you should be acting is wrong...

 

Or are you about to admit that you're a jerk?

"This comment was totally unfounded and offensive and you must apologize to me for that. Otherwise your entire credibility and any respect here is forever forfeit by you."

 

No, it was not. You mischaracterized a group of people and blamed them for your shortcomings. You constructing a mental house of cards does not deserve an apology. If my recognition of this diminishes my credibility, I'm good with that. I've only rarely been greeted with respect here and I'm good with that also. I do not require it.

A few points...

 

First, it was offensive and unfounded.

Second, there was no mischaracterization of anyone, nor was there any blame placed upon them for anyone elses shortcomings.

Third, There was no construction of a mental house of cards, except in your own mind, where you constructed just such an edifice...

Fourth, your lack of recognition of such, plus your attempts to defend your insult as truth, has indeed lost you any possible respect or credibility... not that you had much to start with.

Fifth, since you burst on the scene with an explosion of PRATTs, lies, false assumptions and insults, starting topics over and over again which are nothing more than repeats of debunked claims, running away when you can't answer then starting another topic about the same damn subject making the same damn claims, and generally being a obnoxious little jerk, is it any surprise that you don't get much respect from anyone here?

Sixth, we do not require a lying, offensive, arrogant jerk around here... so maybe you should take your leave now?

[Guest JimmyDtD]

If you ever get a chance to see the PBS program on Hitler's spirituality, you should watch it.

[All Gods Fail]

You have some milque-toast profile in mind for how Christians ought to act, and I don't fit it. You think believers are supposed to be pansies and I am not one.

 

I think you're a pansie, if it makes you feel any better.

 

So why are you a xtian, anyway? Doesn't sound like you intend to turn the other cheek, repay evil with good, or heap burning coals on our heads through your good deeds. You come off as just some ornery, resentful dildo.

 

This is what Jesus would do? Hell, I can be like that - it's easy!

[Guest Beyond_Belief]

Nazi connections with Christianity has always been overlooked (I wonder why? )

 

It is easier to see if we look at what else was going on in Europe at the time. Spain had Franco's facists, anti-communist, supported by Catholic Church, Italy had Mussolini's facists, anti-communist, supported by Catholic Church - and then Hitler's nazies, anti-communist, supported by Catholic Church. But while Spanish and Italian facist links to Christianity are merely played down, Germany's links are denied completely. Christians claim that Hitler was a Pagan, an Athiest, an Occultist, a Humanist etc. etc. etc. He may have been any of these things in private but the German state, being anti Communist and anti-Jewish was a natural friend of the Catholic church.

[Lycorth]

So why are you a xtian, anyway? Doesn't sound like you intend to turn the other cheek, repay evil with good, or heap burning coals on our heads through your good deeds. You come off as just some ornery, resentful dildo.

 

This is what Jesus would do? Hell, I can be like that - it's easy!

 

I used to be just like that, myself. A few years ago, before my deconversion, I was very resentful about the modern world and many things. Only Medieval Xianity (read: Catholicism) was the truth, as I saw it, and I was not about turning the other cheek, doing good so Gawd could do evil to my enemies, and so forth. I was very vengeful and very much about traditional Heathen concepts of honor and such, most of which were reflected in the Chivalric code. Naturally, I ate that right up, knowing it wasn't in line with the Holah Babble, but still I tried to reconcile it with Xian behavior, usually referring to Medieval Xianity as my justification.

 

I don't think he's a Medievalist Xian, but all that's going on with him is his natural human spirit resisting Xian programming. He's fine with believing in Jesus™ and most of the customs of the religion, but when it comes to being a doormat for Jesus™ he just can't do it. Unlike Xians like Pat Robertson (whom I remember doing a little piece on how wicked self-defense methods are, since it violated Jesus'™ command of "turn the other cheek"), he just can't bring himself to fully assimilate the Gospel.

 

It's hard to turn off one's humanity, after all.

[BuddhistCommunist]

Sorry guys not trying to be negative here, but Hitler was far from true christian. He may have used christianity to appeal to the predominately christian populace, but Hitler had other Ideas in mind. Hitler was massively into the occult and took most of his ideas from Madame Blavatsky(spl?) and other major occultists of the past. Hitler may have started of christian but he didn't end up that way.

Hitler would have said he was the 10th incarnation of vishnu if the German people were Hindu, If you understand the mind of his kind you understand what they will say anything just for power. And Hitler had been seeing Psychics and palm readers since his early involvement with German Workers Party. Dietrich Eckart told him in his early days he would be the new Fuhrer of Germany, after holding a seance he said told him so.

 

"It is only on one or two exceptional points that Christ and Hitler stand in comparison, for hitler is far to big a man to be compared with one so petty."

-Herman Goering

 

A speech which Hitler and all the top brass of the Nazi party applauded.

 

"National Socailism and Religion cannot exist together.... the heaviest blow ever struck was the coming of christianity.

-Adolf Hitler 11th-12th july 1941

 

"Christianity is rebelion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean systematic cultivation of the Human failure"

-Adolf Hitler

 

I have more but at the moment I am pressed for time

 

Peace,

BC

[Vulgaris Prime]

And no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge!

[All Gods Fail]

Sorry guys not trying to be negative here, but Hitler was far from true christian. He may have used christianity to appeal to the predominately christian populace, but Hitler had other Ideas in mind. Hitler was massively into the occult and took most of his ideas from Madame Blavatsky(spl?) and other major occultists of the past. Hitler may have started of christian but he didn't end up that way.

 

No, Hitler was not a xtian by any stretch, nor were the Nazis in general. But if not for xtianity and the huge bias against Jews instilled in the German culture by the likes of Martin Luther (whom Hitler quoted frequently) and the Catholic church, I doubt the Nazis would have succeeded in winning over the general population the way they did.

 

Many German theologians (Protestants & Catholics) fell right in step with the Nazi philosophy and were instrumental in bringing the xtians around to Hitler's way of thinking. The problem there, of course, was that sheep follow the shepherd. Traditional anti-Semitic theology had already laid the groundwork for the Final Solution.

[BuddhistCommunist]

Sorry guys, please disregard my previous post, I misunderstood the situation.