Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

The Fear.


GaudierGash

Recommended Posts

Hello!

In around six years I've been fighting with anxiety and fear about hell. It's pretty mildly expressed, but I don't really want to get into details what it has caused. Everything is not bad; for instance it has led me to make a better life for myself. I am a better person to other people, but to myself I'm miserable, always afraid and the anxiety never leaves me.
 
To put it short; at one time I started searching about hell online out of curiosity and came by a testimony by Bill Wiese (I would assume some of you know about it) and that's where a crazy, crazy fear started; a kind of fear I never knew from before. I was bed-bound for three days, frozen with fear. I was around 17 then.

Today I'm 24 and the fear and anxiety have become a permanent part of me. All I do is thinking about hell and religion. It may sound exaggerated, but it is mostly true. I have made progress in my life in attempt to be more Jesus-like, and to avoid my fears. Besides this, I got baptized, I have visited several Christian congregations (IHOP among some) and I've had meetings with many priests and pastors to try and get somewhere. I have researched most religions so much that it's impossible for me to gather all my reasoning and make something out of it. At several times I've been so afraid of hell as it is described in the Quran that I've seriously been thinking of converting to Islam.
 
As time passed I identified more and more with Jesus teachings, foremost the message 'love your neighbor as yourself.' To live selfless does really feel like the only 'right' thing to do in life, for me; the thing that bothers me is evangelisation (exposing other vulnerable people to my fears, and due to my own fear of being seen as 'crazy') and to love and believe in God and the resurrection. To me, faith is not a choice you make (well, partly, everything and nothing is a choice), but dependent on other psychological processes. To love a God that either created hell or at least allows it to exist is to me hard no matter what the cause (direct, indirect, as a consequence of holiness etc.)
 
In my reserach something has hit me about Christianity and it's branches; there are beoynd a doubt the most claims of miracles, changed lives, visios and other supernatural events. I know it isn't proof, but it gets to me why it is like that.
 
When it comes to visions about hell (the greatest cause of my fear) something that always hits me is the amount of specific details (snakes with spikes that crawls up through genitalia, grey-mist souls inside skeletons, metal plates as clothing with sins written on them) that match other testimonies. That is not proof either, but it gets to me as well. There are also many things that differ, that leads to somewhat of a contradictionary hell. But all testimonies don't have to me true, if you're finicky, and following the Christian logic. It could also be that none of them are true. Check out the testimonies by Bill Wiese, Mary K. Baxter and the seven columbian youths (the worst one if you ask me), Angelica Zambrano, and others if you want to look into it yourselves.
 
What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goodbye Jesus
  • Super Moderator
What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.

 

Under those constraints all I can say is you simply cannot make life decisions based on fear, and you should believe that for which there is evidence. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

 

-Litany against fear, Dune.

 

I second the notion that you should not allow fear to run your life, especially considering how strong it seems to be.

 

As for what to believe? I'd suggest you not believe anything without solid evidence supporting it. See above for what to do with the fear, at the very least it won't hurt.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really struggle with hell fears, but I have struggled with end-times fears. I am one of those people who will fall for every end-times date prediction out there. December 2012 was the big one. I was really, really afraid of it. It came and went, and I said, FUCK THIS. I will never fear this stupid shit again.

 

The other day, my neighbor told me he thinks shit will hit the fan this September. I had never heard that before, and I did a little bit of research and found that there are indeed a bunch of people who agree with my neighbor. I began feeling the old familiar fears creeping in, but I allowed my new rational thought processes to take the lead, and I told myself, "These are stupid rumors started by PEOPLE." And what I really had to ask myself, was, "Who are these people? These aren't even people who I really know or particularly trust, and I'm letting their words affect me."

 

So who the fuck is Bill Wiese? (This is a rhetorical question, I know who Bill Wiese is.) But you know what I mean? He's a random dude you have NEVER met, and he is out to get MONEY. Or he's insane. Or both. But I'd be willing to bet on the money.

 

My point is, he's no one to you, nor are the other people. Think about it like this. I could go on youtube tomorrow and make a video about how I went to hell, and you would believe me and feel afraid. But I would be a liar, a con artist. And so are these others.

 

Best to you, friend. I know these fears fucking suck to live with. But you have to allow your critical thinking brain to rise above the irrational fears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.

 

 

 

I'm not going to make any money off of you (think about those who do) but wouldn't you be happier if you

 

didn't have religious beliefs?  I know I was.  It is such a relief to not have those fears anymore.  I hope you

 

find your way there.  If you were interested in losing your religion I could try to help with some deprograming

 

exercises but the driving force in your deconversion would have to be you.  You would have to want it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there any underlying health issue here?  That level of continuous fear strikes me as indicative of possible problems.  May be worth a trip to a secular therapist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to ex-c.  Here are links to some articles you may find helpful.

 

Blog post by Neil Carter (a member of ex-c) "Why I reject hell and why you should too"

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/11/23/why-i-reject-hell-and-why-you-should-too/

 

Blog post on an OCD website about religious scrupulosity, a form of OCD that involves excessive and distressing fear of hell. (Several members here have or have had this disorder)

 

http://www.ocdla.com/blog/scrupulosity-ocd-religion-faith-belief-2107

 

Article about religious trauma syndrome - a proposed term for a stress disorder that can develop with some forms of Christianity.  

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/religious-trauma-syndrome-how-some-organized-religion-leads-to-mental-health-problems/

 

I'm not saying you have a disorder... I am just providing information about the kind of fear and distress you are talking about, and some strategies others have found helpful in overcoming it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.

 

Under those constraints all I can say is you simply cannot make life decisions based on fear, and you should believe that for which there is evidence. 

 

 

I know you can't make decisions based on fear, but the fear itself is so much greater than that knowledge.

 

"I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

 

-Litany against fear, Dune.

 

I second the notion that you should not allow fear to run your life, especially considering how strong it seems to be.

 

As for what to believe? I'd suggest you not believe anything without solid evidence supporting it. See above for what to do with the fear, at the very least it won't hurt.

I would very much like it to be so, but my fears are so real at times it truly is scary. I've done some weird stuff because of it. I have never hurt anybody, but I've certainly affected people, as in 'that guy is mental.'

 

Hello GG

 

I have severe bipolar disorder and in hypomanias and manias I heard demonic voices and saw demonic visions. I also heard from God and angels, but the demonic stuff was terrifying. Once in church I experienced myself falling into hell surrounded by a host of screaming souls. I was constantly being attacked by Satan.

I wanted to commit suicide, but some Christians told me that I would go to Hell for the unpardonable sin.

I also have obsessive compulsive disorder and I became obsessed with Hell while having bipolar delusions. It was Hell.

When I started deconverting the fear of Hell became even worse.

I spilled my guts to the people at ex-C and they made me see that I should continue deconverting.

After a long time of exposing myself to rational argument that fear receded.

I realized that only the physical brain is real and that there is no such thing as a soul. The Bible is riddled with flaws. Why give a document like that a hold over you? For example there is a hypothesis that the books of Moses were written by different authors in different times. No one really knows who wrote the gospels.

My point is Christianity is a destructive cult that destroys the sanity of many people who see past the bullshit. They get told that they will burn for eternity.

Don't search for God in other tales of revealed religion. I did and it only adds additional strain. All religion is made up by men. All religion contains falsehood. If you want to believe something become a deist.

Take time, a year or so, away from Christianity and church. Let your brain recover from indoctrination. Read up on arguments against Christianity to make it loose its hold over you. Read the iron chariots wiki or the Skeptic's Annotated Bible to see that it is all bullshit. Read books that will open your mind. Read about evolution and theories that the universe can have natural origins. Knowledge bolsters your confidence. I am in the last stages of deconversion and voices and visions don't hold any power over me because I know it is created by my own brain. I am freer than I ever was. You can be too. There is no sense in letting a cult ruin your life.

I went to Islam. Don't go to Islam. It is stupidity. You are smarter than that.

Hell isn't real. It is a freaken myth begun by ignorant fucks trying to explain the world and scare others into believing what they had to offer.

 

Good luck.

Thank you for sharing EternalStudent.

 

You don't have to answer this, but, have your visions changed as you got less religious?

 

I don't really struggle with hell fears, but I have struggled with end-times fears. I am one of those people who will fall for every end-times date prediction out there. December 2012 was the big one. I was really, really afraid of it. It came and went, and I said, FUCK THIS. I will never fear this stupid shit again.

 

The other day, my neighbor told me he thinks shit will hit the fan this September. I had never heard that before, and I did a little bit of research and found that there are indeed a bunch of people who agree with my neighbor. I began feeling the old familiar fears creeping in, but I allowed my new rational thought processes to take the lead, and I told myself, "These are stupid rumors started by PEOPLE." And what I really had to ask myself, was, "Who are these people? These aren't even people who I really know or particularly trust, and I'm letting their words affect me."

 

So who the fuck is Bill Wiese? (This is a rhetorical question, I know who Bill Wiese is.) But you know what I mean? He's a random dude you have NEVER met, and he is out to get MONEY. Or he's insane. Or both. But I'd be willing to bet on the money.

 

My point is, he's no one to you, nor are the other people. Think about it like this. I could go on youtube tomorrow and make a video about how I went to hell, and you would believe me and feel afraid. But I would be a liar, a con artist. And so are these others.

 

Best to you, friend. I know these fears fucking suck to live with. But you have to allow your critical thinking brain to rise above the irrational fears.

 

I do know what you mean.

 

Well, not necessarily. I don't believe them all, just some are more convincing than others. Even more so when you research the people behind them in-depth.

 

I saw that video today. It is a good one. 

 

 

 

What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.

 

 

 

I'm not going to make any money off of you (think about those who do) but wouldn't you be happier if you

 

didn't have religious beliefs?  I know I was.  It is such a relief to not have those fears anymore.  I hope you

 

find your way there.  If you were interested in losing your religion I could try to help with some deprograming

 

exercises but the driving force in your deconversion would have to be you.  You would have to want it.

 

Oh, yes, I think about that everyday. There are so many things i miss; closeness, sex, masturbation, marijuana (wonderful plant, but impossible to use when anxiety strikes), you name it. Sorry for the TMI, I just want to keep the conversation as open as possible. 

 

The kind of anxiety that would create would probably make me kill myself before I could go through it. Almost happened before.

 

Is there any underlying health issue here?  That level of continuous fear strikes me as indicative of possible problems.  May be worth a trip to a secular therapist.

I am depressed, with OCD. These things I have diagnosed. According to psychiatrists and doctors, nothing else. And they know everything about me. I've gone through several secular therapists, it hasn't worked yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to ex-c.  Here are links to some articles you may find helpful.

 

Blog post by Neil Carter (a member of ex-c) "Why I reject hell and why you should too"

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/11/23/why-i-reject-hell-and-why-you-should-too/

 

Blog post on an OCD website about religious scrupulosity, a form of OCD that involves excessive and distressing fear of hell. (Several members here have or have had this disorder)

 

http://www.ocdla.com/blog/scrupulosity-ocd-religion-faith-belief-2107

 

Article about religious trauma syndrome - a proposed term for a stress disorder that can develop with some forms of Christianity.  

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/religious-trauma-syndrome-how-some-organized-religion-leads-to-mental-health-problems/

 

I'm not saying you have a disorder... I am just providing information about the kind of fear and distress you are talking about, and some strategies others have found helpful in overcoming it.

Thank you.

 

I do have the religuous scrupulosity, actually; goes with my OCD. I've also read that article. It is a good read.

 

I'm gonna have to read the one about religious trauma syndrome, seems interesting. Thank you for the links.

 

You don't happen to know how to edit messages?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can edit messages once you have made 25 posts.  You can also send a message to mod and ask them to edit a post for you before then, I believe.

 

I'm glad you have already got diagnoses, that's an important step.  Have you tried medication?  

 

I don't have OCD, but I have been living with on/off depression for over 20 years.  Talk therapy helps a bit, but medication is what really helps, and for the most part, keeps me well.  It took a long time to find the right meds for me.  Unfortunately, the only way to know if a med will help is to try it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also I'd highly recommend finding something that would get your mind off this subject, if possible. Before I officially stepped away from religion I was peering into the abyss of paranoia pretty bad, not so much for religious reasons, but the undertones where there, mostly conspiracy theory BS, I found just getting my mind off it long enough to relax helped a lot, then I started binging on as much information as I could find about debunking religion and learning as much as I could stand about real science.

 

Though I've never had to deal with OCD or related issues... Your mileage may vary. Hope you can figure something out, at least.

 

And if you don't hate the idea of watching people play video games, and aren't completely turned off by derpy antics and silly memes, a probably 8-9 hour stream of minecraft FTB infinity is starting in about a half hour... http://www.twitch.tv/jefmajorJust a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Hello!

 

In around six years I've been fighting with anxiety and fear about hell. It's pretty mildly expressed, but I don't really want to get into details what it has caused. Everything is not bad; for instance it has led me to make a better life for myself. I am a better person to other people, but to myself I'm miserable, always afraid and the anxiety never leaves me.

 
To put it short; at one time I started searching about hell online out of curiosity and came by a testimony by Bill Wiese (I would assume some of you know about it) and that's where a crazy, crazy fear started; a kind of fear I never knew from before. I was bed-bound for three days, frozen with fear. I was around 17 then.

 

Today I'm 24 and the fear and anxiety have become a permanent part of me. All I do is thinking about hell and religion. It may sound exaggerated, but it is mostly true. I have made progress in my life in attempt to be more Jesus-like, and to avoid my fears. Besides this, I got baptized, I have visited several Christian congregations (IHOP among some) and I've had meetings with many priests and pastors to try and get somewhere. I have researched most religions so much that it's impossible for me to gather all my reasoning and make something out of it. At several times I've been so afraid of hell as it is described in the Quran that I've seriously been thinking of converting to Islam.

 
As time passed I identified more and more with Jesus teachings, foremost the message 'love your neighbor as yourself.' To live selfless does really feel like the only 'right' thing to do in life, for me; the thing that bothers me is evangelisation (exposing other vulnerable people to my fears, and due to my own fear of being seen as 'crazy') and to love and believe in God and the resurrection. To me, faith is not a choice you make (well, partly, everything and nothing is a choice), but dependent on other psychological processes. To love a God that either created hell or at least allows it to exist is to me hard no matter what the cause (direct, indirect, as a consequence of holiness etc.)
 
In my reserach something has hit me about Christianity and it's branches; there are beoynd a doubt the most claims of miracles, changed lives, visios and other supernatural events. I know it isn't proof, but it gets to me why it is like that.
 
When it comes to visions about hell (the greatest cause of my fear) something that always hits me is the amount of specific details (snakes with spikes that crawls up through genitalia, grey-mist souls inside skeletons, metal plates as clothing with sins written on them) that match other testimonies. That is not proof either, but it gets to me as well. There are also many things that differ, that leads to somewhat of a contradictionary hell. But all testimonies don't have to me true, if you're finicky, and following the Christian logic. It could also be that none of them are true. Check out the testimonies by Bill Wiese, Mary K. Baxter and the seven columbian youths (the worst one if you ask me), Angelica Zambrano, and others if you want to look into it yourselves.
 
What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.

 

I suggest you consult with the mental health professional of your choosing.  It is quite possible that your brain chemistry is amiss.  If that is the case, and you fix it, your will do more for yourself than anything else you can do.  Even if you can't fix it completely, you can mitigate it through hard work, which, again, will do more for yourself than anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hell does not exist. Where is your evidence that it does? You have described paralyzing anxiety, but being anxious does not mean your fear has a foundation.

 

You said that Christianity has the most claims of miracles. Okay- so because something is claimed, it is therefore true? Nope. People get deluded and lie all the time. It's like believing that Santa Claus is real because a bunch of kids claim to have seen him. I know that sounds weird to you, but it's the same thing: supernatural claim with no evidence.

 

If you're truly seeing images of hell, that's a cause for concern that your fear is inducing hallucinations. That is something you might want to see a professional about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can edit messages once you have made 25 posts.  You can also send a message to mod and ask them to edit a post for you before then, I believe.

 

I'm glad you have already got diagnoses, that's an important step.  Have you tried medication?  

 

I don't have OCD, but I have been living with on/off depression for over 20 years.  Talk therapy helps a bit, but medication is what really helps, and for the most part, keeps me well.  It took a long time to find the right meds for me.  Unfortunately, the only way to know if a med will help is to try it.

 

I have tried SSRI, Theralén, Atarax, neither really helped much. I'm not to keen to try benzo, opiates or amphetamines.

 

Also I'd highly recommend finding something that would get your mind off this subject, if possible. Before I officially stepped away from religion I was peering into the abyss of paranoia pretty bad, not so much for religious reasons, but the undertones where there, mostly conspiracy theory BS, I found just getting my mind off it long enough to relax helped a lot, then I started binging on as much information as I could find about debunking religion and learning as much as I could stand about real science.

 

Though I've never had to deal with OCD or related issues... Your mileage may vary. Hope you can figure something out, at least.

 

And if you don't hate the idea of watching people play video games, and aren't completely turned off by derpy antics and silly memes, a probably 8-9 hour stream of minecraft FTB infinity is starting in about a half hour... http://www.twitch.tv/jefmajorJust a thought.

 

I suppose I to this a lot as well, but somehow I always slip back, and it's always worse the next time...

 

 

 

Hello!

 

In around six years I've been fighting with anxiety and fear about hell. It's pretty mildly expressed, but I don't really want to get into details what it has caused. Everything is not bad; for instance it has led me to make a better life for myself. I am a better person to other people, but to myself I'm miserable, always afraid and the anxiety never leaves me.

 
To put it short; at one time I started searching about hell online out of curiosity and came by a testimony by Bill Wiese (I would assume some of you know about it) and that's where a crazy, crazy fear started; a kind of fear I never knew from before. I was bed-bound for three days, frozen with fear. I was around 17 then.

 

Today I'm 24 and the fear and anxiety have become a permanent part of me. All I do is thinking about hell and religion. It may sound exaggerated, but it is mostly true. I have made progress in my life in attempt to be more Jesus-like, and to avoid my fears. Besides this, I got baptized, I have visited several Christian congregations (IHOP among some) and I've had meetings with many priests and pastors to try and get somewhere. I have researched most religions so much that it's impossible for me to gather all my reasoning and make something out of it. At several times I've been so afraid of hell as it is described in the Quran that I've seriously been thinking of converting to Islam.

 
As time passed I identified more and more with Jesus teachings, foremost the message 'love your neighbor as yourself.' To live selfless does really feel like the only 'right' thing to do in life, for me; the thing that bothers me is evangelisation (exposing other vulnerable people to my fears, and due to my own fear of being seen as 'crazy') and to love and believe in God and the resurrection. To me, faith is not a choice you make (well, partly, everything and nothing is a choice), but dependent on other psychological processes. To love a God that either created hell or at least allows it to exist is to me hard no matter what the cause (direct, indirect, as a consequence of holiness etc.)
 
In my reserach something has hit me about Christianity and it's branches; there are beoynd a doubt the most claims of miracles, changed lives, visios and other supernatural events. I know it isn't proof, but it gets to me why it is like that.
 
When it comes to visions about hell (the greatest cause of my fear) something that always hits me is the amount of specific details (snakes with spikes that crawls up through genitalia, grey-mist souls inside skeletons, metal plates as clothing with sins written on them) that match other testimonies. That is not proof either, but it gets to me as well. There are also many things that differ, that leads to somewhat of a contradictionary hell. But all testimonies don't have to me true, if you're finicky, and following the Christian logic. It could also be that none of them are true. Check out the testimonies by Bill Wiese, Mary K. Baxter and the seven columbian youths (the worst one if you ask me), Angelica Zambrano, and others if you want to look into it yourselves.
 
What am I supposed to believe? What re you supposed to do with the fear? All answers are appreciated, but please try to refrain from conscending answers and destructive criticism.

 

I suggest you consult with the mental health professional of your choosing.  It is quite possible that your brain chemistry is amiss.  If that is the case, and you fix it, your will do more for yourself than anything else you can do.  Even if you can't fix it completely, you can mitigate it through hard work, which, again, will do more for yourself than anything else.

 

 

I've gone through both mental health professionals of my choosing and medication, neither helped. I have changed my lifestyle so to reduce anxiety as much as possible; I don't eat sugar, I exercise thoroughly, and I eat properly (all the minerals, proteins and vitamins). I do know my brain chemestry is amiss, probably a seratonin deficiency (my happiness is on a tight schedule, during specific times I get worse anxiety), I know it's not dopamine, since marijuana affects that and it didn't change my anxiety level.

 

Hell does not exist. Where is your evidence that it does? You have described paralyzing anxiety, but being anxious does not mean your fear has a foundation.

 

You said that Christianity has the most claims of miracles. Okay- so because something is claimed, it is therefore true? Nope. People get deluded and lie all the time. It's like believing that Santa Claus is real because a bunch of kids claim to have seen him. I know that sounds weird to you, but it's the same thing: supernatural claim with no evidence.

 

If you're truly seeing images of hell, that's a cause for concern that your fear is inducing hallucinations. That is something you might want to see a professional about.

 

I have already said in my first post that I have no evidence that it does, I know that the foundation of my fears are probably due to inner processes in my brain; this does not change the fears from being real to me, since brain chemistry is more powerful than knowledge.

 

It is not therefore true, and I believe I didn't say it was; just that it seem that way. After all, people tell the truth more than they tell lies. I believe I read this in a study. I know that people get deluded.

 

I am not having hallucinations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 
I have tried SSRI, Theralén, Atarax, neither really helped much. I'm not to keen to try benzo, opiates or amphetamines.

 

Which SSRI(s), at what dose and for how long?  Did you stop because they didn't work or because of negative side effects?  If you are not having really bad side effects, it's best to give an SSRI 3 months at the maximum safe dose before saying it doesn't work for you.  

 

You don't need to try benzos, opiates or amphetamines, there are plenty of other drugs that are probably better suited for OCD.

 

If you can't take SSRIs, you might do ok on SNRIs.  There are also a number of different AAPs (atypical antipsychotics), and mood stabilisers too.

 

I don't think you have tried enough meds to be able to say meds don't work for you.  I know it's a pain trying lots of different meds, but I'm afraid it's the only way to find out if they will work.

 

Living with OCD without meds is very hard, so it's worth trying to find a good med.   Also, new meds are coming out all the time, so don't give up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 
I have tried SSRI, Theralén, Atarax, neither really helped much. I'm not to keen to try benzo, opiates or amphetamines.

 

Which SSRI(s), at what dose and for how long?  Did you stop because they didn't work or because of negative side effects?  If you are not having really bad side effects, it's best to give an SSRI 3 months at the maximum safe dose before saying it doesn't work for you.  

 

You don't need to try benzos, opiates or amphetamines, there are plenty of other drugs that are probably better suited for OCD.

 

If you can't take SSRIs, you might do ok on SNRIs.  There are also a number of different AAPs (atypical antipsychotics), and mood stabilisers too.

 

I don't think you have tried enough meds to be able to say meds don't work for you.  I know it's a pain trying lots of different meds, but I'm afraid it's the only way to find out if they will work.

 

Living with OCD without meds is very hard, so it's worth trying to find a good med.   Also, new meds are coming out all the time, so don't give up.

 

Cipralex, 15mg for fore than three months. They didn't make me feel much different.

 

Medication is difficult, not because all of them does not work (well, that also), but because of what Christianity says about it.

 

My visions were all because of my illness.  I don't understand how these people have these visions, but they are flawed.  They talk of real flames and flesh and the centre of the earth and all kinds of rubbish.  It is false.  If God really wanted to punish people eternally and if there was really a soul, the punishment would be unlike anything we can imagine.  The punished will spend a time in a place of horror.  There will be no demons to hold order as some of these people claim.  Demons will also suffer.

 

I get so angry at the fear these people spread.  I can also spread it if I want to, but I believe my visions were as a result of my illness.  There is no Hell!!  If there is a God, he cannot possibly be so callous as to harm fragile human beings.  I have more knowledge, strength and wisdom than my dog.  My dog sometimes poops on the carpet.  My greater insight comes with responsibility.  Because I understand that my dog is not capable to perfectly do all as I say, I will be gentle with him.  I believe that if there is a God he will be loving and gentle with us.  Fire and brimstone is a flawed hypothesis.  If God has more insight than we have he will not subject us to more sadistic horror.  He will be loving.  He will be forgiving.

 

There is no free will.  Any intelligent individual will look at our make up and realise that we are fleshly robots with computer like brains.  Stephen Hawking said this and I agree with him.  How can you punish poor people if they don't have free will?  It is madness.

Say we have partial free will at best.  Will such horrific punishment be doled out upon people with partial free will.

 

I have only limited insight with a small brain yet I show compassion.  Wouldn't a God with infinite insight be able to show even more love and understanding?   Of course he will.

I agree with you on every point. Because of the space-time continuum, the future is already cemented, beings several million parsecs away moving towards us are already in our future. I study astronomy and geology; it's not that I'm able to disprove a lot of what the bible says, it is that uncertainty that gets to me. For example, the evidence for the darkness at Jesus crucifixion (not firsthand, but still noteworthy) and miracle and vision claims today. Of course, since I've been doing this for so long, I have re-wired my brain a whole lot, and my thought-pattern is therefore flawed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you on every point. Because of the space-time continuum, the future is already cemented, beings several million parsecs away moving towards us are already in our future. I study astronomy and geology; it's not that I'm able to disprove a lot of what the bible says, it is that uncertainty that gets to me. For example, the evidence for the darkness at Jesus crucifixion (not firsthand, but still noteworthy) and miracle and vision claims today. Of course, since I've been doing this for so long, I have re-wired my brain a whole lot, and my thought-pattern is therefore flawed.

 

 

There is no evidence for any darkness at Jesus' crucifixion.  For that matter there is no evidence for Jesus'

 

crucifixion.  What we do have are religious claims.  The Bible is a set of claims, not evidence.  The claims

 

scream out that they need evidence that we don't have because extraordinary claims need extraordinary 

 

evidence.  Without the evidence (that we don't have) these claims starve to death.

 

 

 

I was steeped in Christian apologetics.  It had been my life long obsession.  When facing my crisis of faith

 

I could not let go of Christianity for the longest time because it had a hold on my emotions.  And no amount

 

of logic could get past my fear, my love for Jesus or my sense of duty to the promise I made.  Does that

 

sound anything like you?  I can't tell.  Anyway what broke through my emotional barriers was that I started 

 

watching atheist comedy videos - specifically the ones by Darkmatter2525, NonStampCollector, along with

 

the work of comedians Ricky Gervais and the late George Carlin.  Humor became my emotional weapon

 

that destroyed what was holding me back.  I don't know if it will work for you but the way you describe it

 

your religion is making you miserable.  One way or another I hope you find peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest sylensikeelyoo

I used to read Mary K Baxter's stuff all the time. I've also been to some of Angelica Zambrano's meetings (I speak Spanish too. I worked as a youth pastor at a Spanish speaking church for a few months). This fear of hell you have is pretty normal. We all go through it when we deconvert. The truth is, these hallucinations of hell that these people scare others with AND make money off ofis not in the bible. It comes from midevil writings and early Christian lore. If you think about it, Mary Baxter totally rips off Inferno, by Dante Alighieri. Inferno was part of the Divine Comedy trilogy, which was an epic poem. In no way does Dante claim that this journey to hell, purgatory, and heaven were real. These poems were allegorical for the soul's journey to God. However, his description of hell in inferno is very graphic and terrifying and has inspired Christians throughout the millennia to scare the holy piss outta one another in order to get each other to behave or follow whatever crazy doctrine they come up with. If you study the history of hell, you can see that it is clearly man made and an effective tool for controlling gullible people. Most of us here at Ex-C have fallen for it at one point and have gotten past it. Give yourself some time, and keep reading. If you've never read Inferno, you should. See if you can draw parallels from Baxter and Zambrano with Dante's made-up midevil poem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, sorry, GG. I misunderstood what you said about visions. So you know hell isn't actually real, but you are anxious about it anyway?

 

I used to be really afraid of hell; the fear was reinforced when my parents forced me to attend church. It went away over time, as I got older, quit going as often, and continued to spend time on Ex-C and watching/reading secular material. You may not go to church--I don't know what would work for you. I'd quit reading hell testimonies. Bill Wiese and his ilk are all frauds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Cipralex, 15mg for fore than three months. They didn't make me feel much different.

Medication is difficult, not because all of them does not work (well, that also), but because of what Christianity says about it.

 

 

Ok, 20mg is the minimum effective dose of Cipralex, and 40mg is the maximum safe dose.  Fluoxetine and Paroxetine are stronger SSRIs.  However, an SNRI like Venlafaxine is stronger still and may be a better option to try next.  You may also need an augmenting medication as well, such as an atypical antipsychotic.

 

I encourage you to discuss this with your doctor and keep trying.  Of the people on ex-c with OCD, only one that I know of is on medication, and she says the difference is like night and day, in that she hardly has any fearful, anxious, obsessive thoughts about christianity, compared to what she had to endure before she went on medication.  The others resist the idea of medication and continue to have troublesome symptoms of the disorder. It makes me sad for them.

 

Also, who cares what Christianity says about it?  We are ex-christians now and we can follow what science says, without ancient superstitions that date from a time when people had no idea about medicine.  So much unnecessary suffering is caused by Christians being anti-medication.  They sure don't object to taking insulin for diabetes, or beta blockers for heart disease, so why should brain medications be different?  Even when I was a Christian, I believed that medications were given to us by God, anyway.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also on OCD medication. 30mg Lexamil and it helps me. I know FreethinkerNZ thinks it's a bad idea for my bipolar, I wouldn't want to keep on living without the Lexamil. I'd literally go drown in the ocean without my Lexamil for depression and OCD and social anxiety disorder.

It's ok, it could be worse.  I just think it can contribute to rapid cycling, and there may be other meds that give the same benefits without that side effect.  But I don't know if there are.  Maybe your doctor knows there aren't, and he thinks this med is the best trade-off for you.  Ultimately one's own doctor is in the best position to know which meds and dosages are right for a person.  I just try to learn as much as can so I can have conversations with them about the meds, and I try to encourage others to persevere with meds despite poor results from some of them.  Because I have been there, and eventually found a couple that work well for me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I agree with you on every point. Because of the space-time continuum, the future is already cemented, beings several million parsecs away moving towards us are already in our future. I study astronomy and geology; it's not that I'm able to disprove a lot of what the bible says, it is that uncertainty that gets to me. For example, the evidence for the darkness at Jesus crucifixion (not firsthand, but still noteworthy) and miracle and vision claims today. Of course, since I've been doing this for so long, I have re-wired my brain a whole lot, and my thought-pattern is therefore flawed.

 

 

There is no evidence for any darkness at Jesus' crucifixion.  For that matter there is no evidence for Jesus'

 

crucifixion.  What we do have are religious claims.  The Bible is a set of claims, not evidence.  The claims

 

scream out that they need evidence that we don't have because extraordinary claims need extraordinary 

 

evidence.  Without the evidence (that we don't have) these claims starve to death.

 

 

 

I was steeped in Christian apologetics.  It had been my life long obsession.  When facing my crisis of faith

 

I could not let go of Christianity for the longest time because it had a hold on my emotions.  And no amount

 

of logic could get past my fear, my love for Jesus or my sense of duty to the promise I made.  Does that

 

sound anything like you?  I can't tell.  Anyway what broke through my emotional barriers was that I started 

 

watching atheist comedy videos - specifically the ones by Darkmatter2525, NonStampCollector, along with

 

the work of comedians Ricky Gervais and the late George Carlin.  Humor became my emotional weapon

 

that destroyed what was holding me back.  I don't know if it will work for you but the way you describe it

 

your religion is making you miserable.  One way or another I hope you find peace.

 

 

There are non-christian historical documentation, I believe? But, no, that is not considered evidence. You are correct. :)

 

It does sound like me, just that I don't want the thoughts and emotions; I hate the feeling of being controlled in what I think (it's like thought-crimes in 1984) and not being free to do what I want. I feel like my life is disappearing in front of my eyes and it stresses me out.

 

Perhaps I will try comedy. Thank you.

 

I used to read Mary K Baxter's stuff all the time. I've also been to some of Angelica Zambrano's meetings (I speak Spanish too. I worked as a youth pastor at a Spanish speaking church for a few months). This fear of hell you have is pretty normal. We all go through it when we deconvert. The truth is, these hallucinations of hell that these people scare others with AND make money off ofis not in the bible. It comes from midevil writings and early Christian lore. If you think about it, Mary Baxter totally rips off Inferno, by Dante Alighieri. Inferno was part of the Divine Comedy trilogy, which was an epic poem. In no way does Dante claim that this journey to hell, purgatory, and heaven were real. These poems were allegorical for the soul's journey to God. However, his description of hell in inferno is very graphic and terrifying and has inspired Christians throughout the millennia to scare the holy piss outta one another in order to get each other to behave or follow whatever crazy doctrine they come up with. If you study the history of hell, you can see that it is clearly man made and an effective tool for controlling gullible people. Most of us here at Ex-C have fallen for it at one point and have gotten past it. Give yourself some time, and keep reading. If you've never read Inferno, you should. See if you can draw parallels from Baxter and Zambrano with Dante's made-up midevil poem.

 

Ugh, horrible. How do you look back at these meetings now that you no longer believe? Can you tell easily it's BS? If so, how? 

 

I've heard people comparing it do the Divine Comedy before, but I have not seen so many similarities? I have studied the history of hell, but there's still the rich man and Lazarus, that people who believe it literally says it is real and the people who don't believe it say it's a parable. I don't see why it couldn't be either?

 

Okay, sorry, GG. I misunderstood what you said about visions. So you know hell isn't actually real, but you are anxious about it anyway?

 

I used to be really afraid of hell; the fear was reinforced when my parents forced me to attend church. It went away over time, as I got older, quit going as often, and continued to spend time on Ex-C and watching/reading secular material. You may not go to church--I don't know what would work for you. I'd quit reading hell testimonies. Bill Wiese and his ilk are all frauds.

 

It's no problem. Yes, that is correct.

 

Well, I do not want to read them, but it's that OCD feeling that makes me do it eventually; that feeling of having to read about it.

 

Sorry, I also misunderstood.

It's no problem. :)

 

 

 

Cipralex, 15mg for fore than three months. They didn't make me feel much different.

Medication is difficult, not because all of them does not work (well, that also), but because of what Christianity says about it.

 

 

Ok, 20mg is the minimum effective dose of Cipralex, and 40mg is the maximum safe dose.  Fluoxetine and Paroxetine are stronger SSRIs.  However, an SNRI like Venlafaxine is stronger still and may be a better option to try next.  You may also need an augmenting medication as well, such as an atypical antipsychotic.

 

I encourage you to discuss this with your doctor and keep trying.  Of the people on ex-c with OCD, only one that I know of is on medication, and she says the difference is like night and day, in that she hardly has any fearful, anxious, obsessive thoughts about christianity, compared to what she had to endure before she went on medication.  The others resist the idea of medication and continue to have troublesome symptoms of the disorder. It makes me sad for them.

 

Also, who cares what Christianity says about it?  We are ex-christians now and we can follow what science says, without ancient superstitions that date from a time when people had no idea about medicine.  So much unnecessary suffering is caused by Christians being anti-medication.  They sure don't object to taking insulin for diabetes, or beta blockers for heart disease, so why should brain medications be different?  Even when I was a Christian, I believed that medications were given to us by God, anyway.

 

 

To be honest I don't remember the exact dosage. I will se about the doctor and trying some new medication. Thank you.

 

Well, the most hardcore believing Christians don't use any medication, I'm sure. Isn't that actually considered witchcraft in the bible?

 

I'm also on OCD medication. 30mg Lexamil and it helps me. I know FreethinkerNZ thinks it's a bad idea for my bipolar, I wouldn't want to keep on living without the Lexamil. I'd literally go drown in the ocean without my Lexamil for depression and OCD and social anxiety disorder.

 

All these names, hehe... it's a lot to take in. Is it really that much of a difference? How would you describe your OCD and anxiety disorder before and after taking it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both are better thank you.

 

I'm glad to hear that. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest sylensikeelyoo

Yeah GG I can easily see through the bullshit, because ALL of it is. The old testament doesn't even mention Hell. The Jews, who came first, didn't believe in hell. It was a completely alien concept. The Christians invented hell. I mean, there was some vague passages in the OT about Sheol which was a Jewish underworld of some kind, and some sects of Jews believed that's where everyone goes when they die but the fire and brimstone and weeping and nashing of teeth is a purely made-up Christian concept. Every last bit of those "testimonies" of Jesus showing people hell and instructing them to tell everyone about it is ALLLLLL BULLSHIT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.