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Goodbye Jesus

Adventures In Badgering Christians On Fb (Bake Gays Two Cakes)


ConscientiousObjector

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Forgive the ridiculous length of this post, but it's pretty amusing. Scroll to the bottom to see what I do to shut down this imbecile friend of my aunt that won't stop butting in to the conversation (even though he's not my fb friend, apparently since I tagged my aunt in a comment, he was able to comment.) Nosy proselytizer smite, courtesy of the God page on facebook!

[ ] denote commenter, or who commenter is addressing. { } denote side notes from me. The blog at the beginning is well worth the read, even if it is written by a Christian.

 

 

[me] Are you offended by the notion of Christians being compelled to provide services for a same-sex marriage? What would Jesus do? Would he revile and discriminate them, or would he "Love thy neighbor" and "Turn the other cheek"? Please, re-read the sermon on the mount (Matthew 5). My challenge is for you to find a verse that would contradict this article.

Matthew 5:41 "If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles."

 

http://tenthousandplaces.org/2015/04/01/bake-for-them-two/

 

[douchebag bro-in-law] The church I go to teaches exactly this, as do most good Christian churches that teach from the Bible, but does that make it ok to compel Christians to do things against their beliefs? Absolutely not. That is the offense.

 

[me] Within the church, the congregation should be free to practice/uphold their beliefs without government interference. In a public business, no one should be discriminated against. Who draws the line on when discrimination is acceptable? Do Mormons have the right to deny service to African Americans because their bible claims that blacks previously served the devil? Should Muslim Americans be allowed to refuse infidels? This is why separation of church and state is important to ALL of us!

 

[bro-in-law] This is the crux of the problem, that one side believes homosexuality is a civil right because they are born that way, but the other side believes it is a choice.

 

[awesome gay friend] And I can tell you which side of that argument is correct, [douchebag]. It's not coincidence that almost everyone with first-hand knowledge thinks it's not a choice, whereas almost everyone who thinks it IS a choice is making that proclamation based on no actual experience or evidence (it's usually just a presumption that it's a choice, based on religious reasoning, because that would never be God's intent). One side is dealing with facts, experience and knowledge; the other side is dealing with presumption and "philosophical theory" (for lack of a better phrase).

 

 

[moron proselytizer] To "Jessica" {this idiot doesn't realize that he cannot directly address Jessica, as she is the author of the blog I shared on my OP} and others who view homosexuality as she does.

From a Christian perspective, you are so far off here it is hard to contemplate what, if anything will steer you back to center. I think the best thing to do, is do what you tried to do using unrelated scripture in regards to the homosexual lifestyle. To any true bible believing Christian, homosexuality is sin. Like any sin, it separates the one sinning from God. This is true for every sin, it is in fact what sin is, separation from God. If you can understand this, then you need to also understand no real Christian wants to sin -- Yet every Christian does. This world we all live in, always pulls each and every one of us to it and it's ways. Almost like gravity, it is always at work pulling relentlessly on everyone of us. Now, even though I am not talking about gravity here, for just an instant, lets use it a bit.

Not one of us by our self can repel gravity here on earth. We have ways of counteracting gravity's affects, we use them all the time. But, gravity remains, always here, always present. If you could think of gravity as sin, perhaps you can see a bit of what sin is to all of us. It is ever present, ever pulling and tugging at each and every one of us. No matter how hard we try on our own, we cannot resist what gravity does, how it pulls us down to our deepest depths. But, with the proper helps, proper use of devices conceived, designed and put together for the express purpose of overcoming gravity, we do just that. We fly like birds in all manner of creations, from great to small. Each and every one using aerodynamic principles that allows us to overcome the effects of gravity, but only while we continue to use them. The moment we stop, we fall back down to earth and it sometimes can be a very hard fall. All of us understand this, so all of us use caution, wisdom, expedience and numbers of other disciplines that help hold us up, instead of letting us fall.

Sin is exactly the same in so many ways. None of us can resist sin, not fully and not on our own. It takes understanding that all of us fall to sin, and will continue to fall to sin, while we are here on this earth. The thing is, once we understand that there is a Way that leads us out of sin's grasp, we who choose to accept and use that Way, find in it everything it takes to help us rise above this sin that continues to always pull at us. Trick is, we need to keep at it, always and forever, until we leave this earth. Sounds hard to do, and in many ways it is. Perseverance and dedication are always demanded. Hope and Faith are absolutes that must always be in us. Strength of will and character are called upon daily. There is so much that goes into the discipline necessary to become a true and faithful Christian, it is almost mind boggling if you just stop to think about it. Yet, this is what every true Christian wants for their life, a life to be freed from sin. And it isn't just about getting to heaven either. It's about what makes a life worth living for most of us here on earth. In fact, for most of us, without our belief in Jesus Christ, our life really would not be worth living, because it would lack the very meaning and purpose our life was meant for.

So, all of that was just to try and open you eyes just a little to what true believers in Jesus Christ are. To think that somehow any one of us can accept sin as normal or OK simply isn't possible. We do not judge what is sin, but God does. And where there is no question about what is sin, God has made this clear to everyone in His bible. To ask us to feel different about homosexuality, that it isn't sin, is simply asking for too much. It is sin and it will continue to separate all those who live in it from God. Asking any Christian to accept it will do the same thing -- It will separate them from God as well. If you really want to, you or anyone else should be able to understand this. You do not have to believe in God, you just have to believe all true Christians do, and will continue to, to believe in and live for God.

Please try to understand we must put God first. And as to helping carry a load, not a single Christian would lay down their faith or belief in God, to help anyone carry any load, anywhere, for anyone, for any purpose, for any length of time. To think otherwise is contrary to the bible.

 

[me], I have no idea who you are or how you managed to comment on my post. Apparently I need to tweak my privacy settings (i.e. your opinion was unsolicited and unwelcome). I tried to buy into Christianity my whole life, but unfortunately it rings no more true for me than myths about Thor or Poseidon. It is all thanks to self-righteous, nosy, I-know-what's-best-for-you-even-though-I-don't-even-know-you, Christians like you that I no longer bother with Christianity, and why Christianity is losing people so rapidly. "Life would not be worth living,....would lack meaning and purpose" Really?!?! Now that I've given up Christianity, I'm happier than I have ever been in my life! Not because I'm sinning (I'm not, unless you count speaking my mind or thinking critically a sin), but because I'm no longer beating myself up due to praying constantly for faith but never receiving it. In other words, mind your own business and stay off my wall!

 

[moron], your post came to my timeline though a common friend. As such, I have the same right to post to it as you {still too stupid to notice my name at the top of the post}, as we share a common friend. Interestingly enough, this is how others come to Christ in most instances, through some common friend, common ground, or by sharing something in common. I too have tried Christianity my whole life -- Some 50 years of it so far anyway. I am a struggling believer who has had his boat rocked more times then I care to remember. Fell overboard more then a few times, but for whatever reason I have yet to drown and be lost forever. I have zero interest in hurting you or anyone, but I have every interest in trying to help anyone who would listen to at least try to understand why it is so important to try to find the only way to God. And in that, the only way to truly find the only way to live a right life, even if not alot of it seems right much of the time.

This particular post was in reply to a person by the name of "Jessica" who was with, or without intent, trying portray the bible being in support of the homosexual lifestyle through scripture that had nothing to do with homosexuality. In the most simple terms I know, all I can say is this is untrue. It is actually exactly the opposite of any part where the bible talks to homosexuality. All references used were regarding acts of kindness towards those who do not show kindness in return. I have little problem believing every true, bible believing Christian tries to do just that. I wouldn't make any difference who or what they are either. But acts of kindness are not the same as supporting something you cannot believe in, something the bible calls sin. You can love and even support those not living right lives, but it is something else to support what those lives represent -- Namely sin. I really do hope you can understand the difference I am speaking of here. The person carrying the sin can be accepted and loved, but what that person is carrying cannot. Put it into perspective. If your best friend comes over and has a bag with him/her. You may wonder what is in it. If that friend says it is a rattle snake, you might very well tell that friend to leave. If you are stronger then that, you might allow them to stay because he/she is your friend. Yet, if your friend opens that bag and empties it out at you, you will have to do whatever you need to, to keep from getting bit. This is sin. You can absolutely love the sinner, but you cannot love what that sinner has that makes his life sinful. It has to work this way. There isn't any other way it can work.

No one has any right to tell anyone they are a sinner, except the Holy Spirit. The rest of us are all in the same boat and we all need to just try to help keep as many as is possible afloat for as long as possible. I hope you try to understand. God loves you and will always love you. He will always welcome you and want you to share His life in yours.

 

[gay friend] I appreciate [morons] attempts to explain things to us. And, to his credit, he seems to be trying to do it in a gentle manner. However, his main problem is, he fails to understand his audience.

1) None of us need the "education" he's trying to give us. If you're still reading, we've all been there and I'd venture to guess most of us know as much or more about the scriptures, faith, etc as you.

2) Saying life would have no meaning without your faith is more of an indictment on yourself than anything else. I feel sorry for you that it is your only source of fulfillment. I would like to think that family, working for charities, and trying to leave this world a better place than when I entered would bring my life purpose.

3) Your black & white view on homosexuality reveals your fundamentalist nature. Understand that not everyone reads the scriptures the same way you do. Honestly, I believe there are enough references to it in the Bible that, yes, it probably is a sin. Probably. But as Jean stated, we here on earth are not the arbiters of that. And if you'd like to get into a big theological discussion on why it's only "probably" a sin, well, that should be taken offline. I'll merely state two of MANY points... One, most Old Testament references are in the same context as not wearing mixed fabrics, not eating shellfish, etc... the old laws that Christianity has shed. Two, the few references in the New Testament are exclusively by Paul... a disciple who also spoke out against straight marriage (though stopped short of calling it a sin) and a man who the original Christians (the Nazarenes) thought was out of his mind - they did not believe any of his teachings; only after the Nazarenes were slaughtered by the Romans did the Paul-following Christians ascend. Point is, I know you'll never believe that the Bible was "written" by flawed men, but it was... especially the teachings you are relying on. Best to follow the advice Jean laid out... Judge not, lest you be judged. (And please don't fall back on the same old tripe about how you're not judging, just sharing the truth. Your throne-sitting tone is, absolutely, judging.)

 

[moron] I appreciate the replies to my post here. I'll not belabor my belief upon those here much longer. I understand having to deal with this subject is hard for everyone. Sin is hard on sinner and those who cares for and loves those in sin -- Which is all of us. Don't stop doing that. But, as someone who believes in the bible, and believes the bible IS God's word for man, I do have to do my best to live by the words as best as I know how. Since my best really isn't very good at all, I have to trust and lean the Holy Spirit for helps to do this. To explain what that means to those who have not been in a place where they are fully dependent upon the Holy Spirit is a tough one. For those who have been in that place with Holy Spirit and have for whatever reason moved on from it, is even tougher. None of what I have said here was to influence anyone to be like I am. But, the part of me that shares with others what it is to believe so strongly in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, hopes that others will open their hearts to that same belief, same surrender to Christ over this life. Christ loves all of us and came to earth to fulfill God's plan for each of us. To do that, Christ had to surrender His life, that each of our lives could be forgiven. Without that happening, none of us could ever find forgiveness and could never find peace. But, since sin is ever present in this world, we can never be fully released from its grip while still hear. The more we try to hold on to what this world offers, the harder it is to remain surrendered to Christ. So, even though we must be a part of this world for a time, we must listen to the Holy Spirit and His direction to move through this life and still live for Christ. None of this is about judging others, all of it is about surrendering. When each of us finds a good thing, we will tell those we love and others about what we've found. We share our good fortune out of love, if love is in us. This does not mean we hold our good fortune over someone as the world does, just the opposite. It means we want those we love to find this good fortune just as we have. So you see, it isn't that anyone of us is better then another, but that some of us have found what it means to live in a world filled with all manner of good and evil and through our surrender to Christ, the Holy Spirit is leading us through it. We want to share this with everyone that will listen. There is no judgement here at all, just a belief and a hope others will find what it is that makes this life worth living. It is not the way of this world, but it is the way God gave us to get through this world.

I think I have said what I need to and I hope and pray God reaches all of our hearts with the fullness of His love.

 

{at this point I've realized that I can't block this guy without friending the idiot first (WTF, facebook!!), so, I apologize, send him a friend request, and exact sweet revenge by posting the following on his wall. And, then I blocked his dumbass!}

 

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule of proselytizing to strangers to "bless" me with your unsolicited opinion, not once, not twice, but three times! I gave you ample opportunity to mind your own business and you were asked several times to stop. So I am hereby returning the favor. You're welcome!! :)

 

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Ok, so I just edited this because it was insanely long, but it still didn't help much. Sorry about that, I was playing with my boys while doing this, and didn't realize how much I had here.

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Guest sylensikeelyoo

ROFLMAO!!! This is why I love ya CO! That exchange was brilliant! Love the clever payback at the end. Your friend is someone I'd like to get to know. He's intelligent, eloquent, and sassy. Very nice post indeed! Thanks for sharing this with us!! <3

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Yeah, meeting that guy was a lucky accident on my part, he's a long-time family friend of my husband. My husband left his Facebook open a few months ago, and as I was signing out, a post popped up from the gay friend about Dennis Hasterts former indiscretions and the blatant hypocrisy of conservatives claims that "homosexuals harm children". I never send friend requests to strangers, but his post was so dead-on with how I felt about the Duggar scandal that I couldn't resist. If the idiot proselytizer hadn't droned on like he was writing a novel, I would have included more of my gay friends' smack downs on my fundie bro-in-law.

 

Could you believe the tone of Mr. Proselytizer? "Sit at my feet and I will try to show you how ignorant and wrong you are about the bible and homosexuality." I'm surprised he didn't suggest that we put all LGBT to death like the "good book" says. Wtf, he made me wish Facebook had a middle finger button next to the thumbs up!

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My brain hurts after that. Thank you Christian for reminding me exactly what I left behind and why.

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Lmao, Violet! I have wanted to say that to Christians since I came out on Facebook. How'd you like his metaphor for sin as gravity? The part that ticked me off the most was when he said life would be without meaning and purpose without Jeebus!

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The "sin is like gravity" was...urgh. So we go to heaven and be cleansed of sin by faith in Christ only and that's a GIFT, but we still have to consciously focus on him all the time to get there and consciously abandon ourselves and junk. But it's still a gift. But abandon sin already!!1! Giiiiift! Nothing to lose except your worthless, sinful dreams and plans!

 

Seriously though what the hell is this "force of sin" anyway? One of those misconceptions that people have constant urges to steal, murder, have sex with everything in sight and what not? Or what?

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Yunea, didn't you realize that atheists and agnostics are all about sin? I should know, all my Christian friends have told me, Lol! My aunt is convinced that my heart is full of anger at God and Jesus. I couldn't possibly lack faith for any other reason. According to another super-fundy friend, evolution + no God = no morality. Damn, that black and white thought pattern pisses me off! I think I'll add that one to this thread to, if only to get some help on the best way to respond to that.

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