Actually Hell

[GaudierGash]

As far as yet another thread goes; I will admit that I am quite the lonely person and that I long for human contact in a lot of ways. That is simply just the way I am right now. Many years of not fitting in, long before I even found Christianity, I suppose, have taken it's toll. Somehow this forum here is a place where I find people to actually speak about these things I have experienced and how it has formed me, I hope you don't mind. I suppose even if one would mind, I wouldn't care that much; many years of hellish mental torture (literally) does infuse you with quite the bit of fearlessness in everyday situations.

It feels as if many years of doubting/hating myself is finally starting to come to an end, and it is such a weight of my chest. It is exciting. I can feel the music again, you know? When I listen to music, it just goes straight into me, and I feel alive and loving of the world.

 

But then there's that little voice of doubt; one telling me hat we actually deserve hell for not giving ourselves up to total kindness, of only living for our fellow man because we are capable; capable of that thought and knowing that it would serve good for our fellow man - that the only way to prove yourself not evil would be to give up total authority to God. Certainly I can't be alone in that thought? Even in retrospect? Psychology tells us it's not possible; that it would be a good way to relapse into even worse behaviour. But then we have, for example, the buddhists, who supposedly would think elsewise. What do you think?

 

[Castiel233]

Dealing with Christian theology, I submit that it is actually evil to give up total authority to God. The Bible says kill your children, American mother and Christian, Andrea Yates  read those texts  and killed all her children. We can say that what she did was evil, we can say she was very mentally ill (the courts opinion), a Christian cannot really say that what she did was evil, as she was obeying  the commands given in the OT and upheld by "Mr Meek and Mild" Himself in the NT.

 

No one deserves Hell, no one. No matter how much a believer polishes the turd with words such as "divine justice" or "righteous", it remains nothing more than might is right. The Christian faith is built on fear and threats, remove them and the whole sorry edifice collapses.

 

Keep enjoying the music

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

Well you are definitely not alone in your thoughts and experiences, my friend. I am headfucked beyond belief from shit Christians did do me. The threat of violence from a deity who demands total surrender takes its toll on a person's psyche, not to mention physical and sexual abuse by your sexually repressed peers. I'm pretty fucked in the head, but I am doing a lot better because one I deconverted and became atheist, two, I have the love and support of my close family and friends, and three, I have this forum as an outlet and the support of all these awesome peeps here who have been through similar shit. If there actually is a hell, its right here on earth and resides within religion. I'm happy I escaped, and I hope you do too, Dag. *hugs*

[VacuumFlux]

It was actually some Buddhist writings that helped me get out of that type of thinking. I found a set of lovingkindness meditations that started with yourself. You think about how you'd rather be happy, rather not feel pain. Then you'd think about someone you like, and because you like them, you don't want them to suffer either. Then you extend the well-wishing to someone you feel neutral towards, then to your enemies, and then to all sentient beings (which is a rather abstract idea, which is why it comes last). But it was always your own desire to avoid suffering that gave you the understanding and ability to want good things for others; if you deny that for yourself, how can you give it to anyone else?

 

Another idea I got from Buddhism that helped was that the Buddhist stuff I was reading didn't talk about "deserving" anything. Sure, there was talk about karma, but that was just cause and effect without much of a moral component to it. Instead there was a focus on skillful and unskillful actions - not good or bad, just some actions yield better results. Being a kind and loving person makes you happier; greed and worrying over your possessions makes you feel miserable. Christianity also claimed that if I followed God's laws I'd end up happier in the long run, but that the main point was pleasing God; Buddhism just said that the main point was that I want to be happy, and that the best way to be happy is to not spend lots of emotional energy on running away from things I dislike or chasing after happiness in things that won't last (it's fine to enjoy them while they last, but you have to accept that the feeling will end and move on instead of moping). Diety is rather irrelevant, there is no god-given moral code to follow to achieve happiness. (Disclaimer: some branches of Buddhism do end up sounding more like the christian idea of revealed truths, complete with the Buddha as the savior figure bringing The Word of Dharma to the masses and it being the Only Way, and devotion getting you further along the path than you could get on your own. I was quite fascinated for a while by the similarities and differences between the religions, and how I keep oscillating between "wow, this totally awesome and unlike everything I was taught growing up!" and "wait, if I just changed a few names around, this could be a Christian tract".)

 

And then there's the idea that if you really want to prove (to whom?) that you care about everyone, that "every" has to include yourself. If you really don't see yourself as different and special, then you can't be cruel to yourself and claim that you love all people. What makes you so special and strong that you can handle taking all the negative onto yourself, when you wouldn't ask that of someone else? It's just another form of selfishness, when you make yourself into a martyr. I did that for a while, got really burnt out on it, started resenting other people for not praising me for how wonderful I was and for not spontaneously helping me through the issues they didn't even know I had (they obviously weren't as kind as me, I thought). Eventually I figured out that taking care of myself made me less of a drain on others, and if I did a good enough job at taking care of myself I'd have something left over to give to others without getting annoyed with them. And that telling people I needed help and wanted something from them was actually less stressful for other people - they really were kind, they just didn't know how to help if I didn't tell them. And as long as I asked politely, I discovered that most people enjoy helping each other out when they are able.

 

So enjoy life! Have an infectious joy that bring a smile to other people without you giving up anything of yourself, when you're able, and don't feel guilty when you don't have that to give. We all take turns giving to each other as we're able, not "sacrificially", and it often balances out in the end.