ironhorse Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 As a Christian, I have had doubts about my faith at times in my life, but I really do hope that what I believe turns out to be correct when my life here has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2015 As a Christian, I have had doubts about my faith at times in my life, but I really do hope that what I believe turns out to be correct when my life here has passed. All evidence is against it, but I hope the thought can at least make you happy while you are alive. But that raises a question. Does your belief make you happy or does it simply feel safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 As a Christian, I have had doubts about my faith at times in my life, but I really do hope that what I believe turns out to be correct when my life here has passed. Are you sure that's faith, Ironhorse, as opposed to wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for your answer and question florduh. My belief does make me happy and I do feel safe. Wishful thinking? A hope and a wish I guess you could say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2015 As I recall, Christians never need to hope, they have "Blessed Assurance." To be really safe you might want to toss Allah a bone now and then. After all, there is just as much evidence that Islam is the True Religion. By equal 'evidence' I mean zero is equal to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 To be really safe you might want to toss Allah a bone now and then. That reminds me of what i heard someone say once. Jesus saves you from yahweh's hell, but who is going to save you from allah's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 When I die I hope for two possibilities: - nothing - seeing my deceased cats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Ironhorse, your post points out a real problem with Christianity. You recognize that you walk by faith and not by sight. But at the same time, the NT teaches that believers receive KNOWLEDGE. E.g. "If you continue in my word, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free," John 8:32. That might seem to be a prophecy, to be fulfilled in the next lilfe, but Paul lists "knowledge" as one of the gifts of the Spirit in this life. Lots of similar verses; for example, "But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ," 2 Peter 3:18. When I was a young charismatic, our pastor asked the congregation, "How many know that you know that you know that Jesus rose from the dead?" Everyone raised their hands. What behaviors come when someone is constantly told that s/he knows that which is not the object of knowledge? I'm guessing that one behavior is adjusting to remove cognitive dissonance. So the believer is pushed to act as though from knowledge that isn't there. Then there's the public sphere. If you (the generic "you" here, not necessarily Ironhorse) think you have knowledge, you can be confident in seeking to control other people, even if they do not subscribe to your religion. A mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Then there's the public sphere. If you (the generic "you" here, not necessarily Ironhorse) think you have knowledge, you can be confident in seeking to control other people, even if they do not subscribe to your religion. You touched on a very strong point here. The christian really believes that they have received special knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to. This is why we have evangelists out in the public square screaming at people. Because they believe they have true knowledge, they believe they are doing us a service by trying to get us to believe in their new found knowledge, to get us to submit to the 'truth', as they call it. -Catt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for your answer and question florduh. My belief does make me happy and I do feel safe. Wishful thinking? A hope and a wish I guess you could say. Is this why you always refuse to present any evidence for your beliefs, even when asked over and over again? Because your belief makes you happy and safe - as a coping mechanism for eliminating cognitive dissonance would? . . . Btw, our many requests to you have always been for specific examples of objective evidence that we can evaluate for ourselves. So this rules out subjective beliefs on your part and any arguments that fall foul of any formal and informal logical fallacies. Please oblige us! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2015 True Christians don't hope they'll wind up in Heaven, they know it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Please remember the question in this thread is addressed to all systems of beliefs or non-beliefs, not just the Christian faith. I will try to answer any direct questions to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2015 Please remember the question in this thread is addressed to all systems of beliefs or non-beliefs, not just the Christian faith. I will try to answer any direct questions to me. Okay then. Of course I assume my beliefs are true; otherwise they wouldn't be my beliefs. It means that I believe they're true. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Please remember the question in this thread is addressed to all systems of beliefs or non-beliefs, not just the Christian faith. I will try to answer any direct questions to me. After I die I won't think anything. This must be true by definition. If I am still thinking something then I am not yet dead. Instead of suppressing so much fear about the afterlife why not live a fulfilling life now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindReason Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Which version of Grandma goes to Heaven? My grandma had Alzheimers. The last time I saw her we hugged twice; she had forgotten the first hug by the time dinner had ended. If I'm not mistaken, you believe our souls go to an afterlife and that our memories are somehow preserved in our souls. Is that true of all memories or just some? Will Grandma remember the first hug, the second hug or both? Better yet, how and where are our memories stored? We all know that our brains are made of soft stuff that breaks down when we die. How do you suppose any memories survive that process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Then there's the public sphere. If you (the generic "you" here, not necessarily Ironhorse) think you have knowledge, you can be confident in seeking to control other people, even if they do not subscribe to your religion. You touched on a very strong point here. The christian really believes that they have received special knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to. This is why we have evangelists out in the public square screaming at people. Because they believe they have true knowledge, they believe they are doing us a service by trying to get us to believe in their new found knowledge, to get us to submit to the 'truth', as they call it. -Catt Because we are all unique, each bite of knowledge IS special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Please remember the question in this thread is addressed to all systems of beliefs or non-beliefs, not just the Christian faith. I will try to answer any direct questions to me. Okay then. Of course I assume my beliefs are true; otherwise they wouldn't be my beliefs. It means that I believe they're true. See? Oh gheeze. Surely you have a spiritual standard that occasionally governs your beliefs. Yes/no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 After I die I won't think anything. It appears you are dead already....lol. Sorry MM, I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Do You Hope That What You Believe Is True? As a Christian, I have had doubts about my faith at times in my life, but I really do hope that what I believe turns out to be correct when my life here has passed. Concluding (from your prior behavior on this forum) that you will not address mundane and purposeful details such as agreed-upon definitions of "hope", "faith" or "belief" prior to meaningful discourse, I can only say that some folks, myself included, ride a different intellectual and emotional train. I don't "hope" a "belief" is true. Instead, I evaluate the probability of something being correct. The higher the probability, the less likely I will be surprised if, in a gnostic sense, it turns out to be absolutely correct. For something with less probability, the likelihood of it being correct will be lower. For something that appears highly improbable…you get the idea. I could be wrong. The information I have (upon which I evaluate the probability) could be faulty or incomplete. But all that has nothing to do with "hope" or "faith". It deals with access to information, rational thinking, expectations and probability, with the null hypothesis being "I have no opinion" or "I don't know". Of course you "hope" the religious dogma to cling to is "true". You were indoctrinated with it. You have spent decades holding to it. You are surrounded by peers who cling to the same "hope" (or "faith" if you prefer - I see no difference), and you no doubt fear the peer consequences of rejecting all that baggage (e.g., shunning, ridicule, divorce, etc.) The very essence of your "faith" is "hope". I suspect most of your "hope" is anthropocentrism of a personal nature (e.g., eternal life, special importance). After all, that is a large part of the religious indoctrination you received from trusted adults as a child. Of course, rational thinkers can have hope too (your religion does not own the concept). I can hope that I live a long life, or that my children will be happy and successful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 After I die I won't think anything. It appears you are dead already....lol. Sorry MM, I couldn't resist. End3 infects yet another thread with his sociopathy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 As a Christian, I have had doubts about my faith at times in my life, but I really do hope that what I believe turns out to be correct when my life here has passed. I havent planned that far ahead. But I'll probably create some new reality to live in after this life is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyGoat Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I wouldn't say that I "hope" what I believe is true. I have confidence that what I believe is true. Confidence based on the fact that my reason has left me with no alternative. Being a scientist, what sdelsolray said very much goes for myself as well. I am more than willing to admit that I am wrong if presented with evidence that proves my theories (or the theories I ascribe to) wrong, but that has yet to happen. Until it does, I have confidence in my belief because it is the only conclusion that makes sense. I would love for a big, loving friend-god to exist who could help me out in a bind, comfort me when I am down and offer me a truly joyful life. The christian biblegod has not done that. Besides, the christian biblegod isn't even consistent within his own "divine" scripture. If the god I see in the OT existed, I would make it my sole purpose in life to stand against him in everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 After I die I won't think anything. It appears you are dead already....lol. Sorry MM, I couldn't resist. That is okay, End3. The day you think I'm alive is the day I will worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 "Hope" has nothing at all to do with it, Ironhorse. I accept what I believe, because it's the worldview that makes the most sense to Me. I believe that there is no such thing as a soul. I believe that heaven and hell are mythical. I believe that there is nothing but insentience at the end of our lives. As such, I feel that your beliefs are in error and that the comfort you get from them is illusory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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