midniterider Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Establishing intent is fine of it helps the individual, like if the defendant has a cognitive disability. You still can't be sure what that defendant was thinking at the time, but you can argue that the defendant may not get the help he needs in regular corrections facilities and while you can still convict him of the crime he committed, a sentence more suitable to his needs may be the better option. But you gotta make sure to go off facts, not conjecture. "Hate crimes" are all about conjecture. Conjecture. Sometimes, sure. It depends on the crime and what the defendant has to say. Some crimes are pretty cut and dried. Others, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 You still can't be sure what that defendant was thinking at the time. Cops ask. Bad guys tell. Happens all the time. Especially when the adrenaline is still pumping. And the alcohol loosens the tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Okay I can't say if it is effective or not. My only guess is that it will keep decent people from becoming criminal assholes. The people who are already criminal assholes will remain so. Like any law...some people will break them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I've heard political correctness referred to as symbolism over substance. I agree with the OP. Political correctness has similarities to religious fundamentalism where thoughts are classified as "sin". No action is needed mere thoughts are sufficient to convict and infer guilt. Political correctness is a form of censorship. Society, or more correctly the media, becomes the prosecution, jury, judge, and determines the punishment and their authority is apparently unlimited. Paula Dean being a recent example of media vigilantes. She admitted to having used a racial slur in her past. The media determined her offense was worthy of effectively destroying her socially and financially. Did the punishment fit the crime? And when did using "certain" politically incorrect words become a crime? And what is the real difference between political correctness and Islam where the being "politically incorrect" according to Islamic law and tradition will get you killed. In the U.S. we don't kill people who have been found guilty of being politically incorrect we just destroy them financially and label them as social outcast. And they are apparently not entitled to a trial or even a defense. The media determines their guilt and their punishment and their authority is apparently unlimited and their punishment is final. No appeals are allowed. Political correctness has become so entrenched I don't see it going away and it's proven to be impossible to control. There is a huge difference between disliking someone or some group and doing actual harm to them. The line in the sand is clear. Doing something harmful to someone should be a crime. Thinking bad things about someone isn't a crime, if it is then we are all in serious trouble. Paula Dean will have to pinch pennies now that she only has $14 million left. Living on the streets, I tell ya. Did she get arrested or go to jail for saying the N word? Nope. Does she and other celebrities make too much money? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why can't violent white criminals get fair treatment? Lucky violent black criminals get all the breaks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Just another thought. Don't those who post on this site use a lot of critical speech directed at Christian Fundamentalists that "they" would almost surely interpret as "hate" speech? Maybe that helps put this "hate speech" thing in a little different light. One man's legitimate criticism is often interpreted by another man as hate speech. It depends on which side of the fence you're on I guess. Our postings aren't a direct threat to anyone or specific target. "A hate crime is usually defined by state law as one that involves threats, harassment, or physical harm and is motivated by prejudice against someone's race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation or physical or mental disability" - http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/hate-crime/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Sy, you're drunk, gtfo and go drink some... *reads again* Oh wait, it all makes sense now! *steals some of Sy's beer and makes a run for it* Seriously though, I haven't really thought about the implications of accusing someone of a hate crime before. I'm not entirely sure that I see how it could lead to thought policing, since investigating a person's motives behind an act of violence can provide a good explanation for why they did it in the first place. Dammit CRAZY GUY! get back here with my beer! LOLZ But yeah I see what your saying but that's not what I meant. "Hate Crimes" are typically punished more severely than "normal crime"... For instance, if a group of dudes get into a fight at a bar, they may get minor assault charges, and a misdemeanor or disturbing the peace. They may not even do jail time. If a group of dudes get into a fight and a few of them are gay, your talking " hate crime" and they WILL do jail time, plus probation, plus heaftier fines. Establishing intent is fine of it helps the individual, like if the defendant has a cognitive disability. You still can't be sure what that defendant was thinking at the time, but you can argue that the defendant may not get the help he needs in regular corrections facilities and while you can still convict him of the crime he committed, a sentence more suitable to his needs may be the better option. But you gotta make sure to go off facts, not conjecture. "Hate crimes" are all about conjecture. Okay, what you're saying does make a bit more sense now. I see how punishing someone extra for a violent crime, merely because of their motivation behind it would be punishing them for a thought crime. I was a bit confused I think, because I read your OP while sleep deprived lol. So, now that it has been established that my thought processes were dysfunctional due to sleep deprivation, will you forgive me for stealing the beer? It was clearly for the same reason that I stole it. Also, remember that Fweethawt drank it after he tripped me, so what he did was worse. Perhaps his criminal activity was... a hate crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Also, remember that Fweethawt drank it after he tripped me, so what he did was worse. Perhaps his criminal activity was... a hate crime? I did it because I LOVE beer. I don't hate it. Therefore -- not a hate crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Also, remember that Fweethawt drank it after he tripped me, so what he did was worse. Perhaps his criminal activity was... a hate crime? I did it because I LOVE beer. I don't hate it. Therefore -- not a hate crime. Ah, but when you have no beer, you could be motivated to steal it by a hatred of those who do have it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Also, remember that Fweethawt drank it after he tripped me, so what he did was worse. Perhaps his criminal activity was... a hate crime? I did it because I LOVE beer. I don't hate it. Therefore -- not a hate crime. Ah, but when you have no beer, you could be motivated to steal it by a hatred of those who do have it already. That isn't hate crime. That would be envy crime . . . or even sometimes jealousy crime. How dare somebody else drink my beer? They think just cuz they bought it that it isn't mine? They don't understand that my beer could never belong to another. If I can't have my beer then nobody will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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