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How Does The Crucifiction Make Any Sense?


Dianka
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There are a lot of jokes made on this board about how God sacraficed himself to make up for the sins of the species he created. Why is this a major inspiration for people? Christians have described this as beautiful and a gesture of love from God for his people. WHAT??!!! Let me get this straight, God let people beat the pulp out of him and kill him because he loves us? I apologize for the sarcasm, but between the Trinity and the crucifiction, I have to laugh. This is the apex of your entire religion?

 

It's not like I'm hearing about the major beliefs of Christianity for the very first time, I'm just wondering how people accept this tripe as anything more than myth.

 

So, for Christians crusing this board, I would like to hear a rational explanation for why the crucifiction should be seen as the ultimate gesture of love from God. Why are you so humbled by this?

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:Hmm: Maybe it was encoded with the real story.

 

Some time ago in a religion

class the professor asked what is

wrong with sacraficing a

bull. I said it was a total

contradiction of God's word. And why waste

animals? The God of

the Bible will punish these sinners in time

 

Anyway, I really look forward to the responses from Christians because I don't think I've ever heard any defend themselves in this manner.

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Well, for one thing, it keeps the believers minds off of wondering where their god is (physical proof), that's for sure.

 

 

It could also be a way to confuse them until they believe. Instead of being irrational, it's now something to respect because every time the crucifiction is mentioned, the congregation starts to tremble with praise. Is groupthink so powerful that it can brainwash people into not even asking some pretty basic question when left alone to think? I guess. Why think, it just wastes time that can be used for something constructive like prayer or studying the Bible?

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Well, for one thing, it keeps the believers minds off of wondering where their god is (physical proof), that's for sure.

It could also be a way to confuse them until they believe. Instead of being irrational, it's now something to respect because every time the crucifiction is mentioned, the congregation starts to tremble with praise. Is groupthink so powerful that it can brainwash people into not even asking some pretty basic question when left alone to think? I guess. Why think, it just wastes time that can be used for something constructive like prayer or studying the Bible?

Or like Lloyd said in another thread - the theology was made in order to tie-up the mind with non-issues.
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None of Christianity makes any sense if you really think about it. Thanks to a talking snake, all humans are doomed to eternal punishment unless they believe the correct religious dogma. And the churches continue to rake in billions of tax free dollars. People are really stupid.

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Well, let's get one thing clear here and the whole sacrifice thingy will make more sense.

 

You see biblegod is a god of blood lust. Under the old covenant he couldn't get enough of the stuff. He demanded buckets and buckets of it to the point where whole rivers of hemoglobin were flowing through the streets of heaven to appease his horrible anger at the wicked.

 

Don't under emphasize these wicked people mind you. There were scores of people busy running around eating shell fish and spilling their sperm in the dust! Sick, sick people ruled the earth back in those days.

 

So, god's insatiable lust for blood continued until one day he decided to streamline things, think out of the box, create a more efficient plan. So he magically became himself and then sent himself and bled for us. His own blood was so orgasmic that it finally quenched his never ending thirst.

 

See, it makes lots of sense. I can't think of a more kind and loving sacrifice.

 

If you don't believe this then you are a sick, sick twisted wicked person and you deserve to be tortured forever and ever and ever and ever ad infinitum.

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Of course it doesn't make sense, it's called crucifiction for gawds sake.

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

Dianka, it doesn't, emotions keep them from questioning the logic. It never once crossed my mind that god sacrificed himself to himself, probably because I NEVER was able to comprehend nor accept the trilogy doctrine, despite the fact everyone else in real life Christianity I knew believed and accepted it. To me? I looked at it as God sacrificing his sin to save my pathetic, sinful ass, and thought it was beautiful. Gawd, I'd be bawling a river each Sunday at church when we sang worship songs...how pathetic.

 

Another reason it makes no sense is because in the OT there are at least two accounts; the entire city of Nineva and another of a single man, where god forgave while requiring absolutely zero blood sacrifice. :shrug: Why couldn't this deity just do it for everyone? The whole blood ritual just goes to prove the utter nonsense of it all and that apologetic books abound on the subject even further it's stupidity.

 

Well-said on both counts!

 

The big thing that propels the cruci-fiction story is the emotionalism behind it. It's painted and propagandized as the most singularly loving, wonderful, compassionate action ever conceived of in all of creation now or ever. How can you not fall head over heels in love with someone who did all that for you? Not your loving spouse who lives with you everyday nor your parents who brought you into the world nor anyone else who may have been responsible for saving your life or bailing you out of a terrible situation could possibly come anywhere near the luuuv of Gawd, who put aside his childishness and pissyness for just a few moments in time to send Jeezus to die for you! Just for you, like no one else existed! Oh, the blood of Jeezus, the precious blood, oh the bloooooooooooood!

 

And there you have it. Emotionalism drives the whole thing. The critical thinking of the believer is short-circuited through propaganda, just like in Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany (or election time here in the US). The brains of people, even of the very intelligent, are pummeled with this propaganda and eventually, like a nail being pounded over and over, is driven in deep.

 

And indeed, there are Babblical contradicitons to the logic of the cruci-fiction. Gawd never always required blood and torture and suffering in order to pardon infractions. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. He just can't seem to make up his mind about anything; kill humanity, let 'em live; condemn humanity, forgive 'em. What a schitzo :Wendywhatever:

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I agree that emotionalism clouds the issue. I guess the thing that got me when I initially started having questions sneaking up on me was "How can it be a 'sacrifice' when when nothing died?" I mean really, doesn't a "sacrifice" imply a loss of some sort?! If a day with God were as a thousand years, what does throwing his kid into the monkey cage for a couple seconds prove?! He didn't LOSE his son, and if omnipotence is assumed, then he had NO INTENTION of "losing" anything; so how is this supposed to be considered any great act of love?!

 

...if anything, I'd say it makes god an indian giver.

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The whole story had made more sense (more, but not complete sense), if Jesus was resurrected, and then stayed on Earth, and walked around and showed himself to everyone. That would have been more convincing about God's plan for salvation. And the return-of-investment would have been higher. Imagine a person that is a half-ghost, half-human walking around and telling everyone that he died and stood up again, and that he saw Hell, and he came from Heaven, and if we believe in him we're saved. That would most definitely be more convincing than the tortured-died-wakeup-disappear-we.have.no.clue story.

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The whole story had made more sense (more, but not complete sense), if Jesus was resurrected, and then stayed on Earth, and walked around and showed himself to everyone. That would have been more convincing about God's plan for salvation. And the return-of-investment would have been higher. Imagine a person that is a half-ghost, half-human walking around and telling everyone that he died and stood up again, and that he saw Hell, and he came from Heaven, and if we believe in him we're saved. That would most definitely be more convincing than the tortured-died-wakeup-disappear-we.have.no.clue story.

 

 

Yeah, but why did he even have to be sacrificed and die in the first place? It's all just so stupid.

 

(Not questiong you Hans. :grin: The question is rhetorical.)

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Yeah, but why did he even have to be sacrificed and die in the first place? It's all just so stupid.

 

(Not questiong you Hans. :grin: The question is rhetorical.)

I know. :)

 

Actually the sacrifice part only makes sense from the perspective that the old pagan religions used animal sacrifices to please the gods. Blood was required to be spilled, because it was considered to containing the soul. By giving up life, or the soul which was in the blood, to the gods, would render the gods content and hopefully harmless. It was basically a peace offering to make the gods forget about all the terrible things they planned to do to you. It wasn't so much about what wrong I've done, but all the evil things god could come up with in his anger. This idea expanded to that god would hurt me because I did something wrong (sin), and later the sacrifice overtook the meaning of covering up my sins (OT).

 

The sacrifice was a trade, blood for blood. Instead of taking my blood, this this poor animals blood.

 

From all this it's obvious that the crucifiction and sacrifice was and is an expansion of the pagan sacrifice, and nothing else.

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Okay...here goes. (Don't hurt me!)

 

The crucifixtion is an age old symbol to represent the suffering of mankind. It doesn't matter if there was anyone actually killed in this manner (although there was), it stands for the pain and suffering all of humanity goes through. I am speaking about an inner suffering that presents itself it outward pain towards others. We can all identify with suffering and the cross is supposed to represent a way that suffering can bring about inner peace.

 

Hang with me!

 

When Jesus said to 'forgive them for they know not what they do", he was speaking about their belief that they are separate from everyone else and somehow better than he was. He didn't believe as they did, so they killed him. We see this happening everyday in the world. That is a fact. People killing other people because they think differently. This is because they identify themselves with their egos with causes division, which in turn, causes evil. He wanted them to be forgiven because he knew they were blinded to this understanding. They didn't realize what they were doing. They 'knew' what they were doing, but didn't understand 'why' they were doing it. If they would have, they wouldn't have killed him.

 

So, through suffering, we can realize that we are the same as everyone else. It doesn't always take suffering to recognize this, but suffering is a condition we live in. The Jesus persona recognized that the ones killing him were also of god/or whatever you wish to call it. We are all one and we all have this tendancy to identify with our minds. Jesus recognized that what was in himself was greater than himself and what was in the executioners was the exact same thing that was inside him. They just didn't know it, therefore, he asked forgiveness for them. They indeed did not know what they were doing.

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So, for Christians crusing this board, I would like to hear a rational explanation for why the crucifiction should be seen as the ultimate gesture of love from God. Why are you so humbled by this?

 

OK .... I'm not a fundy Christian ... but I do call myself a Christian.

 

My answer...

 

The ONLY way it literally makes sense is in light of 1st Century thinking.

 

However ... since the followers of Jesus chose to interpret, and make some sense, out of the crucifiction by applying sacrificial mentality to it ... does NOT obligate me to accept this in the year 2006.

 

In the year 2006 we should be able to look at the story of the crucifiction and accept that the act of dying was interpreted the way it was because the people of that century used their culture and world view to define it. It does NOT have to be our take on the whole thing. :shrug:

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Hang with me!

Is that what Jesus said?

 

He asked Peter "You wanna hang out?" :lmao:

:lmao::lmao: Oh shit! :lmao::lmao:

 

I didn't even realize what the hell I said! :lmao:

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Hang with me!

Is that what Jesus said?

 

He asked Peter "You wanna hang out?" :lmao:

 

:lmao: Jeezus did say that to the thief on the cross who wanted to go with him. "Just hang with me, we'll kick back with the Big G tonight!" :lmao:

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And the thief on the other side responded "I don't know. I feel a bit whipped."

 

And the first theif asked "What are you so cross about? Are you high or something?"

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And the thief on the other side responded "I don't know. I feel a bit whipped."

 

And the first theif asked "What are you so cross about? Are you high or something?"

 

And the Lard spake unto them: "Jesus Christ, quit arguing already or no one's going!"

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He didn't believe as they did, so they killed him.

 

 

But it was more than just believing differently, he rode in on his ass as a messiah who was going to save them, and that was a threat to the government in power. Even if the threat was not a great one, c’mon, the balls of someone coming into a town as a messiah. It’s a slap in the face that I imagine was worthy of crucifixion. This is where the whole thing de-rails. He’s God, and he knows what is going to happen. So he’s pushing their buttons and they respond as expected by killing him. We are supposed to be shamed by our lack of acceptance when God knows exactly what to do for us to “kill” his son? Is it even our choice to kill him at that point?

 

Maybe this should be in the Accept My Love or Be Destroyed by My Anger thread. It’s manipulative. For shame, you killed my boy. :nono: How disgusting! But, because daddy loves you so much, I’ll tell you what I’ll do…

 

 

Another thing, does it cheapen the effect knowing that this is an indestructible God? He got the crap beaten out of him in his finite body, but he was more than human even than? I can’t compare the suffering of a God to the suffering of a human.

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Well, let's get one thing clear here and the whole sacrifice thingy will make more sense.

 

You see biblegod is a god of blood lust. Under the old covenant he couldn't get enough of the stuff. He demanded buckets and buckets of it to the point where whole rivers of hemoglobin were flowing through the streets of heaven to appease his horrible anger at the wicked.

 

Don't under emphasize these wicked people mind you. There were scores of people busy running around eating shell fish and spilling their sperm in the dust! Sick, sick people ruled the earth back in those days.

 

So, god's insatiable lust for blood continued until one day he decided to streamline things, think out of the box, create a more efficient plan. So he magically became himself and then sent himself and bled for us. His own blood was so orgasmic that it finally quenched his never ending thirst.

 

See, it makes lots of sense. I can't think of a more kind and loving sacrifice.

 

:clap::lmao::lmao::lmao::clap:

 

I would love to see this laid out in the format of a children's Bible, with cute little illustrations and everything. Any artists here up to the challenge?

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