ironhorse Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 It doesn’t even bother me that these men are their own idols, what bothers me are the droves of people who blindly follow them in hopes to touch the hems of their garments. These men have turned into nothing but modern day snake-oil salesmen. Why are we as Christians ok with this? In these instances our silence is our approval, and once again when the world thinks of Christianity, these are the images they have. ~ The Dirty Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 And I give any fucks about this at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 6, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2016 Not many Christians are inclined to judge another who claims to be Christian also. Even my former pastor, who is intelligent and educated and one of the "Good Christians" always admonished us about judging our brethren as the scandals piled higher and higher. For me, Christianity was never defined by one man or one denomination and the religious hucksters on television and radio didn't represent anything other than themselves. I can see, however, that the world at large can't ignore such prominent religious examples as Bakker, Crouch, Swaggart, Angley, Tilton, ad nauseum. People like these are the face of the religion to most, but they really do not represent most Christians by a long shot. Neither do they reflect mainstream Christian doctrines. Of course none of this does anything to validate the Bible or any beliefs that have sprung from it. It's just that every political/religious organization can fall prey to getting represented by the vocal fringes. That doesn't mean that the core can't be flawed even when fairly represented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Really aside from scale and skill there isn't much difference between a rich preacher and a poor preacher. Not every scam artist has the skills required for the big con. And the market is nearly flooded with a bad preacher on every corner, peddling the building fund as if it were a charity. There are not enough Christians to make every bad preacher rich. Why are Christians okay with this? Brainwashing. Christians are trained to support preachers. It is how Christianity works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Not many Christians are inclined to judge another who claims to be Christian also. Even my former pastor, who is intelligent and educated and one of the "Good Christians" always admonished us about judging our brethren as the scandals piled higher and higher. For me, Christianity was never defined by one man or one denomination and the religious hucksters on television and radio didn't represent anything other than themselves. I can see, however, that the world at large can't ignore such prominent religious examples as Bakker, Crouch, Swaggart, Angley, Tilton, ad nauseum. People like these are the face of the religion to most, but they really do not represent most Christians by a long shot. Neither do they reflect mainstream Christian doctrines. Of course none of this does anything to validate the Bible or any beliefs that have sprung from it. It's just that every political/religious organization can fall prey to getting represented by the vocal fringes. That doesn't mean that the core can't be flawed even when fairly represented. florduh, thanks for pointing out that these snakes (and others like them) do not represent mainstream Christian doctrines. Pentecostalism and the health and wealth gospel have hurt many within their ranks. They have been hurt because it does not work. It is a lie. My experiences with them have not been good. I had a good friend die at the age of 24 from cancer. A relative contacted the local Christian TV station and asked the manager to come pray for his healing. She came alright with an armful of Benny Hinn and other related videos for him to watch. She prayed and then told him if he had enough faith he would be healed. He died a few weeks later and his wife told me later that he had become so confused when the cancer worsened. He felt it must be his fault for lack of faith. She was so mad at how these so called healers had treated him. They never visited him again, they never called, they did not attend his funeral. The New Testament warns several times to watch out for false teachers. I have no qualms about called them out. I think many in the mainstream have made a huge mistake by not doing the same. These snakes have hurt many and continue to drive many away from even considering the Christian faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 6, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2016 In that we agree, IH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 When I was a xian, I never thought of people like this as anything other than people profiting from xianity and taking advantage of gullible people. The two churches I attended in my life also never supported or agreed with people like this. On the other hand, they never did anything to say, "These people are just self-promoters making money off of gullible people." And, of course, the mainstream churches I attended wanted us all to contribute money to their own coffers, and offered promises of peace and healing through christ, which I never personally experienced. Interesting conundrum and another example of cognitive dissonance. I'm glad to be outside of it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The content of this thread doesn't look much like the skeptical appraisal of your faith that you said performed, Ironhorse. When can we expect that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I don't know. They say they're xian. They must be xian. Who are you to say they're not xian? Maybe you're not xian? Maybe you're the false one trying to take away from them? Perhaps you hate the light you see in them? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The New Testament warns several times to watch out for false teachers. I have no qualms about called them out. I think many in the mainstream have made a huge mistake by not doing the same. Oh but you do have a problem with calling out the false teachers inside mainstream Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Really aside from scale and skill there isn't much difference between a rich preacher and a poor preacher. Not every scam artist has the skills required for the big con. And the market is nearly flooded with a bad preacher on every corner, peddling the building fund as if it were a charity. There are not enough Christians to make every bad preacher rich. Why are Christians okay with this? Brainwashing. Christians are trained to support preachers. It is how Christianity works. I've seen that for sure, but I've also seen a few who I think were very genuine, even if genuinely wrong. My uncle was a preacher and I'm positive he not only believed, but truly cared for and loved the people in his church, and people in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Really aside from scale and skill there isn't much difference between a rich preacher and a poor preacher. Not every scam artist has the skills required for the big con. And the market is nearly flooded with a bad preacher on every corner, peddling the building fund as if it were a charity. There are not enough Christians to make every bad preacher rich. Why are Christians okay with this? Brainwashing. Christians are trained to support preachers. It is how Christianity works. I've seen that for sure, but I've also seen a few who I think were very genuine, even if genuinely wrong. My uncle was a preacher and I'm positive he not only believed, but truly cared for and loved the people in his church, and people in general. I'm sure some of them are true believers. However falling for one's own scam doesn't make the product real. I'm sure there are palm readers and fortune tellers who really believe they have powers from beyond. Sincerity is no excuse. If I am are going to teach something, especially when I gain from it, then I have a responsibility to verify it is real. And there is no empirical evidence that Christianity is real. Edit: pronouns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Really? I could have sworn sincerity made the difference between truth and bs. Gotta go rethink things now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Really? I could have sworn sincerity made the difference between truth and bs. Gotta go rethink things now. It's not personal. I'm arguing about the merit of an idea. I didn't say anything about you so please don't spin it that way. When I used the word "you" in post 12 that was a generic word for all the preachers of the world. (Just in case you find my pronoun use offensive I'm going to edit post 12 and change them to "I"s.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Well, IH, now you know why we are sick and tired of these mutha fuckin' snakes on this mutha fuckin' plane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Well, I'm glad that at least some of Christianity bothers you IH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 It doesn’t even bother me that these men are their own idols, what bothers me are the droves of people who blindly follow them in hopes to touch the hems of their garments. These men have turned into nothing but modern day snake-oil salesmen. Why are we as Christians ok with this? In these instances our silence is our approval, and once again when the world thinks of Christianity, these are the images they have. Judge not. Christians are sinners. Filthy rags. Sheep A core principal of your faith is to doubt yourself, believe someone else, and follow them. But hey , why do we let Hollywood actors make millions? Why are football players heros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Really? I could have sworn sincerity made the difference between truth and bs. Gotta go rethink things now. It's not personal. I'm arguing about the merit of an idea. I didn't say anything about you so please don't spin it that way. When I used the word "you" in post 12 that was a generic word for all the preachers of the world. (Just in case you find my pronoun use offensive I'm going to edit post 12 and change them to "I"s.) haha. I wan't offended MM. But you have to admit that was a rather captain obvious post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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