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Guest GreenTea

Hello, this is my first post...

 

This question is rather embarassing because it sounds so silly, but was anyone who became an ex scared that you or someone you love would be struck down with disease, death or something far worse? I mean, did anyone entertain any thought of being attacked by the wrath of god? I was raised in the church, and am just now allowing myself to come out of the mindset that was created for 20+ years...

 

I dont' want to hear anyone tell me how stupid this sounds- I admit to that fact already. I just want to know if anyone else felt this way, and how they got past it.

 

Thank you-

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I'm not laughing. I've heard that same story too many times, from too many good people.

 

20 years of cult programming can't be quickly erased.

 

I can assure you, however, that in time that feeling will go away - it does get better. For me, I haven't had a single bad thing happen to me (death, disease, curses) since leaving Christianity several years ago, and that was after 30 faithful years in the fold.

 

Just take your time.

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Aww, no one would think it's stupid. We've all heard what God does to those who don't believe in Him. I was not scared that God would punish me or my family for not believing. By the time I actually gave thought to where I stand, I was so far gone from faith I didn't see God punishing me. However, when I did believe in God, I was always scared about how He would punish me for my sins when I've really fucked up. I think there are people on this site who still suffer with your fear, it's common.

 

I persoanlly see it as an instilled control. The fear that God will hurt you is beaten into you over and over until it sticks. You can either be scared, or wonder how this loving God could even punish one of His own for something as simple as not believing Him. It's kinda wacko.

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Welcome GreenTea,

 

You are among people who understand.

 

For a very long time, and it still creeps in sometimes, that when things go wrong or life was on the downswing, or I didn't have enough money that month to pay the phone bill on time or I was just plain depressed, I thought that is was because I rejected Jesus.

 

Even though, the worst things that have happened to me were when I was a believer, I still thought that I or someone close to me was going to be punished for my apostacy.

 

The more I learn and the longer I am deconverted the better it has become, and those thoughts get less and less frequent.

 

Taph

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Welcome GreenTea,

 

That's not a stupid fear at all. I was raised to believe in a god who could be jealous and wrathful when someone went against him. When you believe in a powerful god like that it's natural to have that fear until you are convinced that biblegod doesn't exist.

 

I hope this site helps you lose that fear.

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I mean, did anyone entertain any thought of being attacked by the wrath of god? I just want to know if anyone else felt this way, and how they got past it.

 

Oh hell ya.

 

How did I get past it? Learning. Reading. Spending time here.

 

Becoming convinced that the bible is a load.

 

Coming up on a one-year anniversary celebrating freedom.

 

I still have two arms and two legs which seem to still be fully functional.

 

So far, so good.

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The only stupid thing that I realized once I read this thread,

is that I forgot to pick up some green tea on the way into

work tonight.

 

That Lipton™ stuff in the glass bottles with a touch of

honey is some dang good stuff. :yum:

 

Welcome to ExC, Green Tea. :woohoo:

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Well, after I deconverted, nothing seemed to go right.

It was nothing much to do with religious outrage but to do with people who disliked me.

Believe me, I have lots of enemies, open and closeted jerks.

Before I deconverted and came out (that's a different story), I had NO problems.

No problem whatsoever.

But when I thought religion was bullshit, I found out something important about myself also, life went down the toliet like Job's life did.

 

And you thought your life stinks.

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GreenTea,

 

Welcome to Dave's House.

 

Won't even promise "Life is now all OK, and things will come up weedless and smooth for rest of life!!One11!One!ONNE!!"

 

However without the needle in your arm, depending on the "fix" religion gives, you will grow stronger and more self reliant.

 

Lots of folks here with similar tracks and trails in life. There will be people here you will find share a lot of where you were, are at, and can help navigate to where you want to try to go.

 

Won't say that I have *no* fears, but there are things that are uncertain. In those uncertain times and troubles I have learned to trust training, skills, advise from others and the action from long practice(s).

 

Mentally the fear of gohWdZ wrath is long gone, but remembered. I know where you are now and would advise to share here and find those who can help your journey.

 

Cast off into good deep blue waters, the adventure begins when you choose any direction away from the dock.

 

kevinL

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This is fascinating stuff, at first I used to crack up laughing at these concepts but after digging a bit I realized the extent of the damage that psychological terrorism can do.
Reeby, the proper term is, Neurological Sabotage™. Get with the program already! :vent:

 

:HaHa:

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Hello, this is my first post...

 

This question is rather embarassing because it sounds so silly, but was anyone who became an ex scared that you or someone you love would be struck down with disease, death or something far worse? I mean, did anyone entertain any thought of being attacked by the wrath of god? I was raised in the church, and am just now allowing myself to come out of the mindset that was created for 20+ years...

 

I dont' want to hear anyone tell me how stupid this sounds- I admit to that fact already. I just want to know if anyone else felt this way, and how they got past it.

 

Thank you-

 

Hi Sweetheart!

 

Did someone tell you that these horrid things would happen? If so, who? Whoever it was, shame on them. It is certainly not very "Christian" when believers talk like this, IMO. Unfortunately, with certain people, the whole thing about not judging others seems to go out the window at the most "convenient" times (*rolls eyes*). *Hugs*.

 

Sweetie, I'm going through similar. At this point, I'm not even sure I can call myself a Christian (I often think I can't). Like you, I have similar fears about the wrath of God and what not. But lately, I have been telling myself that if I find the *real* truth, then ultimately, I have nothing to fear. This *truth* could be a new faith, or it could involve a rededication to my old one (or is it my current one? Don't know, dammit!).

 

Welcome here. I'm sure many will understand. And if you need to talk at all, my pm box is always open.

 

*Hugs* again!

 

Rosa

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I was never scared for not believing, but there have been times since then when i've been rather irreverent in my feelings towards Christianity, and wondered if that would get me struck down if I was wrong and Christianity did happen to be true. Needless to say, I was never struck down.

 

Now what if the opposite happened, and your life actually improved upon leaving Christianity? That's what happened to me. I've been out of it now going on my third year and not only has nothing bad happened, but my life is much better than it was before. There is less stress in my life, I am healthier, I am happier, I have more money than I ever had as a Christian, and I am very optimistic about the future. And no, I didn't sell my soul to the devil (of course I believe the devil is no more real than Jesus, God and all of their other Biblical friends). And all I did really was I started believing in myself rather than believing in invisible people that don't even exist. You might be suprised what you can accomplish with all that once misplaced faith.

 

Your fear, while entirely understandable, is quite unfounded.

 

Good luck..

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Green Tea, I was terrified when I first left the faith. I was sure I'd committed the unpardonable sin and either god or satan was about to get me. For an excruciatingly long period I was terribly depressed and suffered severe panic attacks. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. :eek:

 

Of course nothing happened, and eventually I wised up. I felt like an idiot afterwards, but I don't blame myself - indoctrination had done it's job. I'd been brainwashed. I'd been trained to think a make-believe character was going to get me.

 

So no, I don't think anyone's going to laugh at you here. I won't, that's for damn sure. :shrug:

 

BTW, once you lose that fear - you get to start living again. And it's great! :woohoo:

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Mine was a gradual thing and born mostly out of frustration and anger, so most of the time I was too pissed off to care about the other shoe dropping. I was all, "Yeah? Go for it!" But, and there's always a "but", there were occasional times when I wondered. But then I always told myself that I chose my new path and of course it would have difficulties. I think that my reasoning was "If God is enough of a bastard to strike down myself or others because I'm leaving he's a bastard I want nothing to do with anyway."

It'll pass.

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This is fascinating stuff, at first I used to crack up laughing at these concepts but after digging a bit I realized the extent of the damage that psychological terrorism can do.
Reeby, the proper term is, Neurological Sabotage™. Get with the program already! :vent:

 

:HaHa:

Neurological Sabotage™, a phrase coined by Loren, one of our brilliant members. It's a perfect description for what was done to us, or what was attempted.

 

Welcome Green Tea! I just want to repeat that your fear is not stupid! We were taught that crap and we were good students. We learned the lessons of Christianity well and that helped keep us trapped in the fold longer and/or fearful of leaving longer. As the others have stated, the residual fears pass with time. They really do.

 

The following may interest you. It is a post from our archives where Loren discusses this further.

 

This is really to Nightbreeze, but there were some other things I wanted to address quickly, first.

 

Deep thanks to Reach and Lokmer for this thread and the way you two are going about it! The conjoining of two minds of differing perspectives is exactly the kind of action needed to start healing these grievous wounds. Obviously, two thousand years of leaving it in the hands of the clergy has certainly not healed a god damned thing. I love that you took it into your own hands.

 

Thanks also to all those who contributed excellent information, particularly channelcat.

 

FF, I agree completely that the eternal damnation doctrine is the gun to the heads of the population. As was mentioned, this is not exactly something Jesus actually taught. I do think that without it, there is no need for salvation in Jesus as current Christian doctrine defines it.

 

However, in looking at the teachings of Jesus, especially in non canonical works like the Gospel of Thomas, I tend to see the very same flavor of teaching present in works like the Tao Te Ching. Taken from such a perspective, I could easily put a more workable alternate slant on the "Hell" teachings as being about the kind of hell we all create for ourselves in this life as a result of our actions. In that sense, salvation becomes the action of living and doing as closely as possible to the way Jesus did for the same reasons, and Jesus becomes the principle or current of right action working within a person.

 

The need to "accept" Jesus as "savior" turns from an act of legalistic parroting of a magic mantra into a life-changing redirection of actions and motives which, if followed, is pretty much guaranteed to produce better and happier results than a life of selfishness.

 

In that sense, I could see an actual salvation from hell in Jesus, but it's a far cry from what most Christians think it is. Also, it doesn't require anyone to be of any particular religion at all, just that they make an effort to live rightly.

 

After all I've been through, and all I've read on the subject, it's my very strong opinion that some form of the above is more like what most of the original Christians taught.

 

Or I could be completely wrong. Just my opinion at this point. I definitely agree with all that whatever the original was, it got hyjacked early by rotten bastards for base political purposes to great and horrific effect.

 

 

Nightbreeze, what can I say? The things you've expressed just tear my heart. Normally, I would tackle the issue with cognitive/doctrinal stuff, but you already have all that and you're still in a hell of your own because of what's been done to you. Clearly, cognitive/doctrinal is not what you need. Reach and I were iming the other day about this and I dropped a term I once heard which summed up the whole Hell doctrine in a concise chunk. She and Lok haven't used it yet, so I'll drop it here.

 

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

This is what has been done to you.

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

This is the primary reason these doctrines make me want to beat the shit out of whoever's responsible.

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

Did you know that you have two distinct systems for memory retention? One is short term, the other, long term. From a neurochemical standpoint, they work quite differently. Your short term memory is not meant to be kept on file for any length of time. However, if you want to put something in your long term memory, simply focus your attention on it for seven to fifteen seconds. When you do, it becomes chemically encoded in the cells of your nervous systems. (Yes, I said nervous systems, plural.) Get back to that in a moment.

 

So when a piece of data gets encoded into your long term memory, it actually becomes a permanent, physical part of your body. Trust me, it works. It is often used against people by those who truly are not their friends, and it's remarkably effective. It's all about mind control techniques, brother. This is how some of them work.

 

Now to the multiple nervous systems thing. You have at least two main nervous systems, and a bunch of interlocked subsystems. One of the two is for dealing with common, everyday, non threatening situations such as digestion and respiration. The other is for dealing with life threatening situations. That's the one that gives you that burst of adrenaline and that sort of thing. You've heard of the fight or flight response? That would be that nervous system taking over. It's great in short, intense situations, but is not meant to "left running" for long periods. Such is very detrimental to the health. So here we have another general mind control technique: Fears which keep the fight or flight response in a constant state of activation are inserted in the long term memory. The person is then in a certifiable altered state of consciousness and usually pretty controllable by others, if the others have taken pains to be imprinted on the victim as trustworthy.

 

Fear is a very effective way of putting someone in an extremely neurologically imprintable state. Ask Randon. He'll tell you.

 

One of the things I've learned which has been useful in my own life has been the shamanic approach. It is often observed by the shaman that the mind of the body does not know the difference between fantasy and reality. After all, everything you experience is a set of coded interpretations of your sense impressions. The parts of you that make the decision of which nervous system is right for the moment don't understand that the pictures in your head are not really happening. Does this make sense to you? You can see it happen when you think about sex, for instance. Even though it isn't happening, your body reacts as though it were. Fantasizing about something that makes you angry is another example. Even though the actual situation may be long dead in the past, your body reacts as though it's happening now.

 

This little shamanic tidbit can be used to great effect if you make a deliberate choice about what you want to have going on in your head. It has been used against you by others. It's time for you to stop allowing criminals and theological perverts to have access to your nervous systems! This is a small, but very useful tool here, Nightbreeze. Do with it what you will.

 

 

Childrens' brains and nervous systems don't stop developing for many years after they are born. There is definitely a period of super imprintability in youth.

 

This (among other things) is what has been done to you.

 

Neurological sabotage.

 

WHO WOULD DO SUCH A THING TO A CHILD?!?!

 

Part of the answer, of course, is someone who has had it done to them. They are simply propagating their own mind control programming, as they were instructed to do.

 

As I said, I really don't have any doctrinal stuff for you that you don't already have. And as I said, it tears holes in me that this shit has been done to you when you were too young to defend yourself.

 

I wish I could speak with you for a while face to face. I don't have any idea if what I've said here will be of any use to you, but I hope it will. You are in need of such deep healing, just like any other victim of deep mind control abuse. It will take a while, brother. Just don't give up. An evil spell has been cast on you. You have to fight your way out.

 

But you can do it. I know you can. All this horrific shit has been done to you. The real question now is, what are you going to do about it?

 

Much love,

Loren

From: To Hell With Hell

 

The more you think about it, doesn't that make a lot of sense? You are not alone, Green Tea. Lots of us have been victims of Christianity. You can get free from the fears. You've already done the first thing you need to do and that is to stare that fear in the face and deal with it rationally.

 

Great to have you here among us! A great big welcome to you!

-Reach

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Hello, this is my first post...

 

This question is rather embarassing because it sounds so silly, but was anyone who became an ex scared that you or someone you love would be struck down with disease, death or something far worse? I mean, did anyone entertain any thought of being attacked by the wrath of god? I was raised in the church, and am just now allowing myself to come out of the mindset that was created for 20+ years...

 

I dont' want to hear anyone tell me how stupid this sounds- I admit to that fact already. I just want to know if anyone else felt this way, and how they got past it.

 

Thank you-

 

Welcome GreenTea:

 

Well ... I've never personally experienced the fear you describe. I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm a grown child of two people who left Christianity. My mother still considers herself a Diest. My father now considers himself a liberal Christian - but for a long time (during my teen years) he was agnostic.

 

They left the Catholic church when I was 12-13 years old. That was 30 some years ago. And I'm here to tell you that they are still alive and healthy. All six of their children are alive and healthy. Our family is as normal as an American middle class family can get. We have our ups and downs - but no worse (or better) than anyone else.

 

As a child of people who had the strength to leave I can tell you I am very grateful. I never fully appreciatated the gift my parents gave us children in leaving until my brother "came out of the closet". My brother is gay. He was able to come to terms with himself much easier because our parents did not subject us to the kind of Christianity you have experienced. We still have very conservative Catholics in the extended family - but by and large our parents gifted us children in leaving. We didn't have to grow up with the type of fears I hear all of you describe on this board. :)

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Hello, this is my first post...

 

This question is rather embarassing because it sounds so silly, but was anyone who became an ex scared that you or someone you love would be struck down with disease, death or something far worse? I mean, did anyone entertain any thought of being attacked by the wrath of god? I was raised in the church, and am just now allowing myself to come out of the mindset that was created for 20+ years...

 

I dont' want to hear anyone tell me how stupid this sounds- I admit to that fact already. I just want to know if anyone else felt this way, and how they got past it.

 

Thank you-

It doesn't sound silly but very familiar! I deconverted less than three months ago after 40+ years a Christian and spent the first month in a state of high tension, not eating or sleeping. I lost a stone in weight and I spent most days waiting for something awful to happen. The fact that I had committed the unforgiveable sin kept coming into my mind and however absurd it seemed, I found it hard to shake off the fears I felt. I just wanted to be able to believe again, to get rid of the practical and emotional consequences of deconversion, but once you know what you know, there's no going back.

But there is a way forward, which I couldn't have believed was possible at the time. It does ease, although I still feel pretty bad on and off, but I'm begining to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

In more ways than one.

I'm sure you will too...

Neurological Sabotage,

Love that concept.

Thank you for posting that...

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The short answer to your question is yes, I was scared at first. I was scared that God was going to be angry. I was scared that my husband would leave me. I was scared of the truth I would find and I was scared that I had been duped all those years. Ultimately, it was all worth it though. I am still a theist, though not a Christian. God has not smote me nor my family and in fact, life has gotten much better since deconverting.

 

As others have said, take your time.

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I haven't been afraid that someone I love will be stuck down because I am now an Ex-C, however I have been concerned that other bad stuff will happen.

 

Since I admitted to myself a year ago that I'm not an xtian any more, a bunch of annoying things have happened (car accident with insurance company and body shop fighting over the settlement in court for months, siblings fighting over parents' money, company reorganization, fairly new refrigerator dying, health scare for my husband, etc). Is there a connection? I try to remind myself that I had bad stuff happen when I was a "good xtian", which is true. I remember thinking, many years ago, after a hit-and-run accident where a car had smashed into our parked truck and taken off, "we're tithing, why is this happening?" Good and bad things happen all the time.

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If ever those old fears from the control programs they drilled into us come back to me with freaky "what if" scenarios, I simply remind myself that if God did exist, and if he was like the way the describe him in these fear threats to keep you in the church, then would I really want to love someone who threatened me with death and torture if I didn't obey them? Would it be meaningful to you if someone said they loved you, knowing they feared your retribution if they didn't?

 

If there is a God, it should be a love of complete and total free will and sincerity, and absolutely unconditionally, which means no threats of hell or punishment.

 

Welcome to the site. It's nice to have others available to share with who have similiar backgrounds and fears.

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This question is rather embarassing because it sounds so silly, but was anyone who became an ex scared that you or someone you love would be struck down with disease, death or something far worse? I mean, did anyone entertain any thought of being attacked by the wrath of god? I was raised in the church, and am just now allowing myself to come out of the mindset that was created for 20+ years...

 

 

What's funny is yes, I was very afraid; I thought god was gonna strike me dead. Interesting to note, however, is that the very last prayer I have ever said, to which I truly meant, was something along the lines of taunting god to kill me.

 

Tell you what, when death is on the line, I don't care what you pray for; praying for death as a taunt to god was pretty fucking scary to me.

 

 

 

But I'm still here.

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Welcome GreenTea! I suppose combining spam and ham with green tea probably neutralizes the benefits, but what the heck, it's a Monday. I suppose we can have tea with out meat products rather than the usual martini.

 

...was anyone who became an ex scared that you or someone you love would be struck down with disease, death or something far worse?

 

Not in my case, but I don't think the question is stupid at all. For me, I lost faith as the result mostly of learning about Christianity and philosophy. I lost faith intellectually first, which proably prevented these types of fears.

 

But before that, I believed in all kinds of scary nonsense including demons and ghosts.

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Truthfully, as I deconverted I didn't fear anything like car crashes or lightning or losing my job or chopping off my foot with a lawn mower or that kinda stuff. I didn't fear demons or evil or falling into uncontrollable sin.

 

But, I did fear hell. Absolutely terrifying shit. All other Godly repercussions pale by comparison. Eternity is a really long freakin time.

 

Damn, I hope hell isn't real.

 

What am I saying?

 

Of course hell isn't real.

 

Right?

 

Right.

 

Phew. I almost had a relapse.

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The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked. [/cliche]

I experienced fear while I doubted, but that was nothing new. Fear is a big part of xianity to begin with. Let's see, we have the fear of God's smiting during our lives, fear of hell, fear of satan and demons, and fear of my own nature. And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. After I stopped believing, I feared the unknown. Every once in a while fear of being wrong still pops into my head. But this site pretty much cures that.

Antlerman makes a great point, is a supposedly loving God that you have to fear worth loving?

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