Another Invitation To Sub_zero: Could You Share Your Testimony?

[scotter]

Hello Sub_Zero,

 

Reading Antlerman's invitation to you on the Spirituality thread, I am inspired to ask you what is you testimony? How did you become a Christian?

 

If you were born a baby baptized as a Christian, either way your story would help us to understand more on your writings.

 

Our Ex-monies is available for you and every one to access and read in the Testimonies of Former Christians section, so I am thinking if you can share with us your testimony for a bi-directional communication.

 

And to the Mods, this may be against the norm of Ex-C.net forum. If you decide that it is not appropriate, please lock or delete this thread. My intention is that Sub's story would help us to understand better about the person Sub, his posts, and his current theology. And I believe that facilitates our further exchange of opinions, if Sub is interested to stay with us in the forum in the longer term.

 

If this thread is ok to the Mods, again Sub it is up to you to share your story, I respect your privacy, and your choice to respond to it or not.

 

And to other resident non-Christian members, please let Sub tell his story and not to add possible adjectives and rhetorical questions.

 

Thank you all and see how it goes.

 

Scotter.

 

p.s. say by the evening if the thread is still open, we can assume the Mods are ok with it, and I sincerely await your response, Sub.

[Guest sub_zer0]

Hello Sub_Zero,

 

Reading Antlerman's invitation to you on the Spirituality thread, I am inspired to ask you what is you testimony? How did you become a Christian?

 

If you were born a baby baptized as a Christian, either way your story would help us to understand more on your writings.

 

Our Ex-monies is available for you and every one to access and read in the Testimonies of Former Christians section, so I am thinking if you can share with us your testimony for a bi-directional communication.

 

And to the Mods, this may be against the norm of Ex-C.net forum. If you decide that it is not appropriate, please lock or delete this thread. My intention is that Sub's story would help us to understand better about the person Sub, his posts, and his current theology. And I believe that facilitates our further exchange of opinions, if Sub is interested to stay with us in the forum in the longer term.

 

If this thread is ok to the Mods, again Sub it is up to you to share your story, I respect your privacy, and your choice to respond to it or not.

 

And to other resident non-Christian members, please let Sub tell his story and not to add possible adjectives and rhetorical questions.

 

Thank you all and see how it goes.

 

Scotter.

 

p.s. say by the evening if the thread is still open, we can assume the Mods are ok with it, and I sincerely await your response, Sub.

 

 

I would love to respond to this post. And I, of course, am willing to tell all my testimony in Christ. To make a long story short...

 

I was at one of those passion plays with my parents, and during the end of it they asked for those willing to accept Christ to come on up and get this envelope. I forget what was in the envelope, I think it contained how to accept Christ as my Savior, or something of that nature.

 

But I will never forget that it was my decision to do so. I started to go up and accept the envelope, and my mom was like, "where are you going Tony?"

 

I say, "to accept Christ into my heart," she was utterlly suprised and I know her Spirit delighted in it. It is important to note that I was raised in a Christian family, and was forced to go to church on Sunday. I was always bored with the sermons of our pastor of course because of my young age, and immaturity in the Spirit of God. I would just go to kids church and the like, of which I do not remember learning much about God, the Bible or Christ.

 

I have accepted Christ again since then, with my brother years later around the age 16. I felt I had fallen away from the Lord and that maybe at age 7 it wasn't as genuine as it is now. Being that I am 16 and am a lot more mature. I am now 21 and this year, especially, I have reclaimed my heart for Christ through intense study of the word of God.

 

I could go on, perhaps this would be a good Q&A period, ;p.

[white_raven23]

Are you attending, or have you attended a christian college? What is your major?

 

What do you want to do career-wise with your life, and how does it relate to your Walk?

[Guest sub_zer0]

Are you attending, or have you attended a christian college? What is your major?

 

What do you want to do career-wise with your life, and how does it relate to your Walk?

 

Nope, not going to a Christian college. I am going for two Associates degrees right now.

 

Network admin/technician are my degrees I am going for.

[Eponymic]

I say, "to accept Christ into my heart," she was utterlly suprised and I know her Spirit delighted in it. It is important to note that I was raised in a Christian family, and was forced to go to church on Sunday. I was always bored with the sermons of our pastor of course because of my young age, and immaturity in the Spirit of God. I would just go to kids church and the like, of which I do not remember learning much about God, the Bible or Christ.

 

I have accepted Christ again since then, with my brother years later around the age 16. I felt I had fallen away from the Lord and that maybe at age 7 it wasn't as genuine as it is now. Being that I am 16 and am a lot more mature. I am now 21 and this year, especially, I have reclaimed my heart for Christ through intense study of the word of God.

 

 

Wow, does it behoove you to realize the brainwashing & preconditioning you're dealing with here?

You were raised with it, you eventually succumbed to it. You say it was your choice, but that choice was made with no real outside frame of reference.

 

Had you done any study on any other religions or spirituality before you decided to become a Christian? If not, then it's that much more apparent that it was the conditioning methods of the religious structure that led you to your choice.

 

Had you actually read the whole Bible before becoming a Christian? If not, how can you say you objectively looked at what you were getting into. Reading it after the point is reading it with rose colored glasses- you're already pre-disposed to believe it rather than look at it objectively.

[Guest sub_zer0]

Wow, does it behoove you to realize the brainwashing & preconditioning you're dealing with here?

You were raised with it, you eventually succumbed to it. You say it was your choice, but that choice was made with no real outside frame of reference.

 

Had you done any study on any other religions or spirituality before you decided to become a Christian? If not, then it's that much more apparent that it was the conditioning methods of the religious structure that led you to your choice.

 

Had you actually read the whole Bible before becoming a Christian? If not, how can you say you objectively looked at what you were getting into. Reading it after the point is reading it with rose colored glasses- you're already pre-disposed to believe it rather than look at it objectively.

 

Of course, I was brainwashed, it couldn't be that what I believe works for me or that it is the truth to me.

 

Again, it was my choice and EVERYDAY it is my choice to continue serving Christ.

 

I have read the Bible front to cover after I became a Christian. Really my Biblical knowledge has increased greatly this year. I don't care if I looked at anything objectively or not, all I know is that Christ is in my heart. I see all other religions and I know about all the other ones, I will stick with Christ and Christianity.

[Eponymic]

Of course, I was brainwashed, it couldn't be that what I believe works for me or that it is the truth to me.

 

Again, it was my choice and EVERYDAY it is my choice to continue serving Christ.

 

I have read the Bible front to cover after I became a Christian. Really my Biblical knowledge has increased greatly this year. I don't care if I looked at anything objectively or not, all I know is that Christ is in my heart. I see all other religions and I know about all the other ones, I will stick with Christ and Christianity.

 

Well, at least you admit you didn't get into it objectively.

 

That's something.

[Guest sub_zer0]

Well, at least you admit you didn't get into it objectively.

 

That's something.

 

How can anybody claim objectivety about other things when you believe in one thing?

[white_raven23]

I have read the Bible front to cover after I became a Christian.

 

 

Wait a second. I'm confused then. If you've read the bible cover to cover, then why....in the verses thread when one of us would refer to a commonly known biblical event, why were you constantly asking us for the exact verses for what we were talking about?

 

I'll understand if you really don't remember what you read.......not everyone's memory works that way.

[Eponymic]

How can anybody claim objectivety about other things when you believe in one thing?

 

That's just the thing. I don't believe in one thing. I believe we don't know enough to be certain, if and what the nature of the universe and/or God is.

[white_raven23]

Nope, not going to a Christian college. I am going for two Associates degrees right now.

 

Network admin/technician are my degrees I am going for.

 

I was curious, so I went looking.

 

Here are the Associate of Applied Science in Network Administration degree requirements for Missouri Tech (not that you necessarily go to this school.....maybe you do........the requirements for graduation with an A.A.S aren't going to vary too widely from this example)

 

http://www.motech.edu/network-administration-associates.html

 

Required Courses

CSE103 Introduction to Computer Science 3.0

CSE123 Business Practices and Automation 3.5

CAD223 FrontPage-ASP 3.0

CAD313 Graphic Design Fundamentals 3.0

CSI204 Elementary Database 4.5

CSE133 Computer Security Systems 3.0

EEM115 A+ 5.0

CSN204 Network Administration Organization 4.5

CSN224 Network Administration Performance 4.5

CSN234 Active Directory and Exchange 4.5

ENG103 Technical Communications 3.0

ENG123 English Composition 3.0

PGS112 Success Planning 2.0

PGS121 Conflict Management and Resolution 1.0

PGS212 Personnel Customs and Cultures 2.0

PGS222 Team Building 2.0

SPC103 Business and Professional Speaking 3.0

 

Total Hours in Required Courses: 54.5

General Education Elective Hours*: 9.0

Total Program Hours: 63.5

 

* General Education hours are required credit hours that students are free to choose from the general education curriculum.

 

Now my question is what are you taking, or have you taken, for your 9.0 (three classes) General Education Elective?

[Guest sub_zer0]

Wait a second. I'm confused then. If you've read the bible cover to cover, then why....in the verses thread when one of us would refer to a commonly known biblical event, why were you constantly asking us for the exact verses for what we were talking about?

 

I'll understand if you really don't remember what you read.......not everyone's memory works that way.

 

I've actually answered this in the thread.

 

It is because it makes you all look through the Bible, it brings you closer to it in a way.

 

Now my question is what are you taking, or have you taken, for your 9.0 (three classes) General Education Elective?

 

 

Ummm. That isn't my school, and this is off topic.

[white_raven23]

(not that you necessarily go to this school.....maybe you do........the requirements for graduation with an A.A.S aren't going to vary too widely from this example)

 

I covered that already. and like I said.....your course requirements would be similar....not exactly these.

 

 

And how is this off topic? I thought this was a Q& A session to get to know you better. That's certainly the impression I had from the first few posts of this thread.

 

What classes are you taking for General Elective requirements?

[Guest bdp]

 

It is because it makes you all look through the Bible, it brings you closer to it in a way.

 

 

 

...asuming we never were close to it...I've been as close to it as anyone could come, close enough to see it for what it is and isn't, nothing you do can put those blinders back on me. Great if it works for you, I'm not willing to suspend so much disbelief anymore.

 

bdp

[Guest sub_zer0]

...asuming we never were close to it...I've been as close to it as anyone could come, close enough to see it for what it is and isn't, nothing you do can put those blinders back on me. Great if it works for you, I'm not willing to suspend so much disbelief anymore.

 

bdp

 

Yeah, so close to it, that you fell away from it...

[Eponymic]

Yeah, so close to it, that you fell away from it...

 

You don't know how true that statement is.

 

Yeah, so close to it, that you fell away from it...

 

You don't know how true that statement is.

 

The irony of course being that Sub_Zer0 was trying to make (in his mind) a sacrastic "point".........while everyone here is just nodding their heads going "Yeah, exactly...and?"

 

We're using the same language, but the meaning and intent is completely different.

 

I love it.

[white_raven23]

Dang it!!

 

Okay I'm guilty this time....... The post above me, where Eponymic appears to be responding to Eponymic?

 

That was actually ME the WR responding to my buddy's post *sigh*. Usually *he* is the one accidentally posing as me.

 

And I had to run out the door for a bit, so I wasn't back in time to "edit".

 

Sorry if that was confusing to anyone.

[jrmarlin]

Wait a second. I'm confused then. If you've read the bible cover to cover, then why....in the verses thread when one of us would refer to a commonly known biblical event, why were you constantly asking us for the exact verses for what we were talking about?

 

I'll understand if you really don't remember what you read.......not everyone's memory works that way.

 

I've actually answered this in the thread.

 

It is because it makes you all look through the Bible, it brings you closer to it in a way.

 

Now my question is what are you taking, or have you taken, for your 9.0 (three classes) General Education Elective?

 

 

Ummm. That isn't my school, and this is off topic.

 

Why would you want us to be closer to the Bible? The Bible is like reading Star Magazine...You can't believe most of what you read.

 

So why would you want us to be closer to an illusion than to reality? Does not make sense...even for a Xian.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

I have read the Bible front to cover after I became a Christian. Really my Biblical knowledge has increased greatly this year. I don't care if I looked at anything objectively or not, all I know is that Christ is in my heart. I see all other religions and I know about all the other ones, I will stick with Christ and Christianity.

 

OK... but then why did you say the Epistle to Titus is not written by Paul but by Titus?

 

If you don't care whether you looked at anything objectively or not, then why should anyone be convinced by what you say?

[scotter]

Thank you for taking the time and also sharing something closer Sub, and I thank others for participating.

 

I apologize to you that this thread degenerated a bit. It was me who asked you to speak openly, and your openness invited rhetorical responses, which I had asked members not to.

 

I realize that Sub is friendly and approachable like a lot of us, it is only our difference in beliefs, and there is no difference between Sub and us as social human beings.

 

I don't care if I looked at anything objectively or not, all I know is that Christ is in my heart. I see all other religions and I know about all the other ones, I will stick with Christ and Christianity.

 

Reading Sub’s posts in this thread, that explains a lot. I attempt to feel Sub’s intensive Christian experience from his responses and I am like having a light bulb “pop” that turns on above my head!

 

SubZ mediates and extracts his experience from his (evangelical) Christianity! That is his vehicle, that is his way, and that works for him.

 

Par my opinion only (I do not and cannot represent all Ex-C resident non-Christian members): each person is entitled to his experience, I cannot deny SubZ’s experience and nor can I deny him to his experience.

 

I must say all the debates between SubZ and other members in the past are still constructive, the various points add to the theological knowledge of members and the dynamics of human communication and interaction.

 

But the debates and posts in terms of Biblical technicalities, historical/philosophical dissections…., they may not have served their purposes the posters intended them to be. The faith experience overrides them and serves well for Sub. Faith, is always subjective. Is there such thing as ‘objective faith’? Could the term ‘objective faith’ be touching the realm of ‘oxymoron’? Somebody can start a thread on this.

 

Just as Openness and Oneness spirituality works for Open_Minded, fundamentalism works for Sub. And this intensive personal experience and theology Sub wants to share with us i.e. evangelize; and some of us, because of past experience, would naturally react differently. In addition, some of us are a bit puzzled that why Sub’s position is immovable, now would Sub’s testimony and posts help to explain somehow?

 

Some of us meant to be kind to share their experiences with Sub and told Sub, “Your way is not the only way.” At least we get to understand, Sub’s way is the only way that works for Sub himself, at the time being.

 

My position under my avatar says I am against fundamentalism, but ‘against’ does not mean ‘disrespect’. I respect your belief Sub, if it works for you, do it your way.

Sub, the ‘attached string’ that I ask from you is mutual respect, fair enough? ‘Mutual respect’ in a sense that we can ask you to learn, understand and even ask questions on how we mediate and extract our spiritual experience, and how it works for us*, and I am not asking you to adopt ours, to agree to ours. Antlerman started a thread with you “How do you mediate spirituality in your fundamentalist beliefs?” We wouldn’t mind at all if you start threads and/or ask questions, “As a Christian who believes Jesus is the only way, I was wondering how do you God believers who believe otherwise cultivate your theology?” “Hi atheist members, what are your philosophies of life?” ---Only if you like to, that is really optional and really up to you. And I think you can even be upfront and say, “Although I won’t be necessarily agreeing with you….”

 

However, when you have the time to write it, I am very interested in reading the ‘long story’ of your testimony and more exchanges could arise from there.

 

If we are walking on the same bridge, we (refer to you and us) can certainly look forward to further friendly and sincere discussions.

 

Scotter

 

* a general statement, how Amanda works out her spirituality is somewhat different from how Open_Minded works out his, and for the atheist members they have their philosophy of life and spirituality too.

[mmccaskill]

I realize that Sub is friendly and approachable like a lot of us, it is only our difference in beliefs, and there is no difference between Sub and us as social human beings.

Then you would be wrong sir. There are plenty of differences, one being we can differentiate between reality and illusion. Another being when presented with logic we don't reject it. Another being we don't go to web forums of people who disagree with our views on religion/god to perform experiments. Another being we don't evade questions. I could go on but I think I've made my point.

 

I don't care if I looked at anything objectively or not, all I know is that Christ is in my heart. I see all other religions and I know about all the other ones, I will stick with Christ and Christianity.

The fact he admits he believes something without objective evidence is the point. Whatever he believes is irrelevant.

[Guest bdp]

 

I apologize to you that this thread degenerated a bit. It was me who asked you to speak openly, and your openness invited rhetorical responses, which I had asked members not to.

 

 

My apologies to you, scotter, and to sub_zero as well - if sub wishes to continue posting in this thread about his spiritual life I promise to not post here again, I will leave it for you to dialog with sub if he so desires. I think his concern about having things that are precious to him mocked is valid, I'd like him to feel free to post those things without fear if he'd like. I was sub 22 years ago, though I didn't come from a Chrstian family. Hell, I didn't even come from a healthy, cohesive family, I envy you that much sub, that you had supportive parents who knew how to guide and direct you so that now you are pursuing an actual career in something that interests you - I wish I had had those advantages. But now I will absent myself from this thread. Peace to all.

 

bdp

[Vigile]

...asuming we never were close to it...I've been as close to it as anyone could come, close enough to see it for what it is and isn't, nothing you do can put those blinders back on me. Great if it works for you, I'm not willing to suspend so much disbelief anymore.

 

bdp

 

Yeah, so close to it, that you fell away from it...

 

That's pretty much the gyst of it, yeah. I guess you're just not close enough to it to realize what bdp and those of us like him have realized.

 

I realize that Sub is friendly and approachable like a lot of us, it is only our difference in beliefs, and there is no difference between Sub and us as social human beings.

 

We understand that and can surely empathize Scotter. Many of us were once in his shoes. It is in fact our knowledge of what it is to be Sub that causes us to respond as we do. I think not one of us hates him. Speaking for myself, I pity him and I hate the meme that is stealing the youth from this young man as it did myself, but I harbor not one ounce of animosity toward him. Truly.