Hellbound, Maybe?!

[rbemis81]

Warning: This is quite long and its probably rather disjointed. It made sense to me when writing it, but the journey has been long and kinda crazy. 

 

I've been on and off this site for a few months. Reading other peoples posts. Part of me is a bit paranoid because I haven't come out, I haven't left my church and my main source of income comes from a church. I got sucked back into Christianity by accepting an invitation by a friend to a special service at her church. Being the friend that I am, I appeased her. Mostly because I didn't want to disappoint her by rejecting her invitation. Before then, I was perfectly happy living in my world of oracle cards, tarot cards and crystals. I was deeply involved in the metaphysical world. This was about 2 and half years ago. The music was what hooked me into the church. It was like going to a rock concert every Sunday and I love live music. They also seemed be ok with gay people, as I'm bi, or at least on the surface they were. I would find out later that this wasn't the case.

 

But my journey up to that point had been kinda crazy. I was raised Catholic, so I went through all the typical things like confirmation and such. When I was 17 my mom and step-dad divorced and I didn't have to go to church anymore, so I didn't. I wasn't at all bothered by this because he was an abusive prick. Church was nothing more than a place I had to go because I was supposed to go. I tried other churches though on and off when I was 19 and 20. I also dabbled in tarot. I ended up throwing that deck away when I joined this messianic jewish congregation. I spent a few years doing that and also going to this jewish synagogue in my city. I found myself believe less and less that Jesus/Yeshua was the messiah. I had asked my messianic rabbi what happens to people who didn't believe and he told me they go to hell. I see this as the moment that I really let go of the god of the bible and the christian god. Something in me said this was wrong. I went through a very bad break up not too long after that. He and I had been heavily involved in our congregation. We had actually met there. After 3 and half years and much manipulation. I finally broke ties with him. This was also the time when I started questioning my sexuality. This was probably normal, but a lot of it had to the mental abuse and manipulation that I had endured due to my ex. 

 

I started looking into wicca after I had heard this witch on a late night talk show. It sounded interesting and I had already let go of my biblical beliefs. I got involved in a local pagan and witches group. I was involved in this when I had met another boyfriend, who introduced me to a whole different world of paganism and sexuality. I came out as bi and had my first encounter with a woman. After a year I ended the relationship to explore this part of me more and came out as lesbian. Being straight lesbian was a bit of a phase but being attracted to women is a part of who I am. I spent 4 years living this and I quite practicing any kind of religion. I wouldn't say I was atheist because I believed in god, but I had no real direction. I believed in reincarnation and the connection of souls, and practiced meditation sometimes, but mostly just wandered. I had become engaged to a woman who ended up leaving me. It broke me. During this time I had moved in with my mom so when I went to her in my despair she shunned me because the homophobic belief that was biblical based. I stayed with my sister for a few weeks then tried to move to NYC. This didn't end well and I ended back with my mom.

 

I ended up getting really into the new age stuff, angels, crystals and oracle cards. But it was all concealed. I didn't expose this stuff to my mom. She had become increasingly fundamentalist christian(she still is). This was about 6 years ago. About 2 years later I got hired on at a church. I was still practicing all this new age stuff, but I found myself getting drawn into the christian stuff too.

 

After about a year and a half I agreed to actually attend a church(different from the one I work in). I had never been to a church like this. It loud music, bright lights and a well used fog machine. The preacher was funny and the messages were relevant. There was also even hints of metaphysical things in the messages, though from a christian perspective. And it also seemed like they didn't hate on gay people. So, I decided to join the church. I thought that jesus was an interesting guy and they all seemed to love him like crazy. I saw these happy faith filled people and wanted to be like them.I figured I'd get there. I wanted to believe. Truly, I wanted to be a part of that. So, I got baptized cause that was an appropriate next step, went to a conference, got prayed for, and got involved in a worship team as a lightening tech(which I love, its fun) but I still didn't have that belief like others do.  Hell, I even had a vision of Jesus during a prayer session, which I am pretty sure was a chanting induced experience in hindsight. I tried to press into this thing. A about a year ago, my ex-girlfriend(fiancé) asked me out. I didn't know what to do about this. I still had feelings for her and talked to my pastor, that was when I found out that I couldn't be in a volunteering role or leadership role and actively seeking a same-sex relationship. I ended up not going out with my ex, but it has bothered me ever since. My demeanor changed though, I wanted the approval of friends and pastors so I started acting more like them. I found out that a woman I used to date was transitioning from female to male and it freaked me out. I was rude to him and again asked for advice from my christian friends. 

 

Then I met this woman who for all intent a purpose shattered my illusions of belief. She questioned whether I was a christian or not basically saying that baptism didn't matter and I had to do this prayer, which I know I did many times before. She was a former witch and now was a hard-core evangelical. Her words pierced me and burst the bubble that I had surrounded myself with.

 

And then the Orlando shootings happened. At first I was cold, but then I realized that this was wrong. Those lives mattered, that could have easily been me or many of my friends at one point in our lives. It changed my perspective especially hearing some of those asshole preachers speak. I even brought it up with my mom and the coldness was there too. I promptly reminded her of their humanity. 

 

Then thoughts of hell, which always was a hangup of mine, resurfaced. I started researching it and the different perspectives of hell, the after life. They say to push into your doubts and this is what I did. My research conclusion are that nobody has a clue what happens when we die. How could there be so many perspectives within the same establishment, all claiming to be biblically based? It wasn't logical. Then I started looking into other things like the contradictions in the bible, different perspectives of the bible. There are so many, how can any of them claim that they have the truth when so many differing opinions exist? Again, it's illogical. I tried to talk to a pastor and friends, but they kinda passed me off. I had kept jesus on this shelf next to me during my who evangelical experience. I never really thought of him as god. It was one of those awkward things that I kinda just shoved under the rug until I knew what to do with him. I saw him as a teacher and healer and a source of wisdom, but thats really where it ended. I chose to follow, but not to worship.

 

For the last couple of months I've been listening to humanist podcasts and the de-conversion stories are amazing and heart breaking. I have become aware of how damaging these exclusive religions can be. I can see my beliefs shifting. I don't know if I'll end up being atheist, but I can say that I see me walking away from the church again. I have this fear of being hellbound, but if I am I was on this path a long time ago. I can't fake this thing and I can't force myself to believe this, if I could have, it would have happened by now. I tried to stop this downward spiral, I prayed, asked for advice, and none of it worked. I didn't choose this, but there is no other choice. The whole time I've been trying to be christian, I kept thinking of that damn red pill(or whatever) from the matrix. I had taken that thing a long time ago and I couldn't just be blind to all the different things I had experienced. I couldn't go back to ignorance, no matter how much I wanted to. 

[rbemis81]

I forgot to mention that I'm not out to my family or friends. I'm still on the fence with that and right now it's best that I keep some of this to myself. Thankfully my job at the church isn't a leadership role and my beliefs can be kept to myself.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome rbemis81! The church thrives on deception. They tell you all about love and acceptance, but don't mention the rules (which they like to call morality) and judgmental parts that aren't popular. Sure you can be gay, but can't actually BE gay. Sure you can be gay, but EWWW not as a volunteer or in leadership, because Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

Their god is supposed to be incarnate love, but if you don't love him enough he'll burn you. Believers are taught to be abused wives, take the beatings, and tell him again how wonderful he is not to have sent them to hell. In short, he's evil. He blesses and commands genocide, mass rape of young girls, likes to slaughter lots of humans to show how great he is. Christians excuse this because he's "holy", but all of the "holy" people we might encounter on Earth are kind and good.

 

I'd say, do your best to find other employment and get away from the cult. Everything they do is infected with the virus of submission to their evil god. We on this board know firsthand what you are facing, which is why this place exists to help us decompress and keep our sanity with others who came out. (Many of us here have some kind of spiritual beliefs, many don't.)

 

Hugs, and welcome!

[qadeshet]

No "god" who would allow even one of his children to suffer eternal punishment would be worthy of our love.

 

From Robert G Ingersoll: Hell

 

Infinite punishment is infinite cruelty, endless injustice, immortal meanness. To worship an eternal gaoler hardens, debases, and pollutes even the vilest soul. While there is one sad and breaking heart in the universe, no good being can be perfectly happy.

Against the heartlessness of the Christian religion every grand and tender soul should enter solemn protest. The God of Hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A God who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved – cursed, not worshiped.

[LifeCycle]

Welcome to the heathen club! Embrace your mind and your ability to reason. Emotions are awesome but don't let emotions be your mechanism for decision-making.

 

Life's too short to spend it focused on speculative bullshit. Any deity that demands full obedience for the penalty of existing is not compassionate no matter what they may say about themselves. It's tyranny and psychopathy.

 

Enjoy your life. Spend some time away from anything that resembles magic. Just observe, live and love as if magic weren't real for a while. You may love it, you may hate it. But you'll never know unless you try.

[rbemis81]

thank you for the warm welcome. it's funny because i woke up this morning thinking about the magical part of all this. i cling to it, sometimes it makes me happy and sometimes it makes me feel like i'm going insane. maybe its part of the human condition to find the magic in life and try and explain away normal occurrences. i've never tried to be completely without god. he/she/it has always been a part of my world view. i do know one thing, the more i let go of that stuff the more i have control of my life. its easier to make decisions, even the difficult decisions. i don't think i have ever had that. agency i think its called. its kinda scary, but maybe giving it a test run like LifeCycle said would be a good thing. I'm working on the leaving part. I think I need to get of the bible belt in general though but thats not an easy move. I do appreciate the comments and welcome. I'm glad there is this space to communicate.

[MOHO]

rbemis81,

 

You have experienced a hell of alot of religion/philosophies/so-called spiritual orgonizations and beliefs.

 

Tell me: did you feel any REAL attachment or belonging to any of them? Did you feel anything tangible or real?

 

Or were they all just pure...

 

                                                 BULLSHIT! 

 

I suggest you take a break from trying to find some organized, impacted, social club (yes, club) , religious or otherwise, to try to wrap your life around. Your life, as it is, has it's worth and that worth is greater than any of the nonsensical cults out there. Just stop thinking about all this crap and keep reading/posting here.

 

Welcome. We don't bite, yell, berate you, or try to guilt you  into submission.

 

Relax, have some grape juice, and don't take life so god dammed seriously!

 

 

​

[R. S. Martin]

I read the entire OP and think it is well-written and interesting. Sorry for all you had to go through and I know what you mean by the feeling of being hellbound. I had that feeling for a very long time but it does get better. For me it took a lot of years but it does get better before the end of all those years. And it may not take you that long at all. You've got a very good handle on things if you can reason things out so well. Congratulations! 

 

As so many of us found, knowing things rationally and intellectually are one thing. Knowing them emotionally are another. Sometimes we just have to go with what we know intellectually to be right and trust for emotions to catch up sometime. It's not easy and that's where forums like this come in. Friends here have been of enormous help to me over the past decade since I signed up. I'm not sure which day, but it's right about ten years to the day that I signed up and I haven't looked back. I wasn't atheist at that point but neither did I believe in the God of Abraham anymore either. I forget the exact timeline. My first exploration after leaving Christianity was a good look at Wicca, meeting with a guy who was into that, but their beliefs made no more sense to me than the magical religious beliefs. I realize not everyone feels that way, and that's okay on these forums. It's just the way I experienced it.

 

What really impressed me was the gentle kindness I encountered by certain atheist members of exC. I don't think they are here anymore but seeing that atheists can be genuinely gentle and kind really impressed me after a lifetime of hearing about the hard-heartedness and evilness and cruelty of atheists. Even though I was not at the time going for atheism, it encouraged me in my deconversion to see that Christianity was dead wrong in its evaluation that atheists are by default immoral. I realize that some atheists may be evil just as some religious people are evil; that is human. My point is that atheists are not of necessity evil as I had been taught. That meant so much to me back then. 

 

Given all this, I was bothered just a little bit that you see your life away from God-belief as a "downward spiral." Coming to the light of reason can also be seen as a maturation process or growing up from childish beliefs in magic, sort of like realizing Santa Claus is make-belief. Sorry if this is coming on too strongly for the moment. Just thought I'd suggest it in case it's helpful. If it's not helpful, please ignore it.

 

I wish you all the best as you seek to find your way. There is no backsliding. There is only seeking to find what is right for oneself.

[MOHO]

rbemis81,

 

I wish to reiterate what R.S. said about the hell bound feelings. It took almost exactly 2 years for me - but - it went away. It took reminding myself how irrationaly that whole love me or i'll burn you thing truely is. This is nothing more than a control/manipulation tactive. Fear is very powerful and asshole's use it to their advantage.

 

I also wish you would not see your current condition as a downward spirul but I have been there too. That, also goes away, and is replaced by an almost euphoric enlightenment feeling.

 

I too felt that you post was far from a rample and was, obviously, well thought out but still form the  heart.

[midniterider]

Warning: This is quite long and its probably rather disjointed. It made sense to me when writing it, but the journey has been long and kinda crazy. 

 

I've been on and off this site for a few months...

 

Welcome to Ex-c. There's no imaginary beings that you need to fear on this site. So enjoy !

[rbemis81]

MOHO:

Some of it was bullshit, some of it felt real and valid. Though I was open to just about anything. I'm far more discerning now. But going to wicca helped me be okay with being female. It gave power to my female voice. This is part of what pissed me off about the church. Protestantism has completely stripped away any kind of strong feminine role model, or any feminine role model at all. Even Catholics have Mary and numerous other female saints. But Protestantism has none of that. I'm not saying all denominations, but much of what I researched seemed to take away any potential power that a woman might have within the church. I am not okay with that, I haven't been for the better part of 10 or 11 years. The woo woo stuff though was part of the process I think. All of it was really. If someone finds value in that stuff and isn't a jerk to someone else, it's not my place to judge their path. 

 

RS Martin:

Thank you so much for your kindness and gentleness. You're right, it really isn't a downward spiral in as much as evolution of my own personal beliefs. It felt and feels like it was though. It so interesting that so many ex-christians become atheist. It does seem like an evolutionary processes, a maturation and maybe even part rebellion because of the box that christianity forces people into. I've become fond of some of the humanist podcasts I've been listening to. The atheist aren't all what I thought they would be. Bart Campolo(spelling?) moved me when he talks. He seems like a genuinely nice guy. Almost spiritual. Like you, I never knew that atheists were nice. Even though I explored other religions, I never understood atheism. I tend to push into things that I don't understand. To me, I couldn't imagine a world without god. But that is changing. I don't really know any in real life, or I don't think I know any. But it would be nice to sit and have a conversation. 

 

Logically speaking, I know I shouldn't be scared. I've lived a non-christian life before. I know what its like. But I've never lived a non-theist life before. So I don't really know what that looks like. I can tell you that scares the shit out of me. But I'm so glad that I have people to talk to it makes whatever this is, easier. 

[GuyGone]

Any time you are letting go of a firmly held belief - especially one as important as God, who determines your eternal future - there is going to be a great sense of loss.  In my book, I likened it to divorce.  Even if the divorce is the best thing that can happen, there is usually a lot of emotional trauma to letting go.  Unless the relationship was completely abusive or something.

 

There are people here who seemed to disconnect easily.  But most of us can't do that any more than we could walk away from a marriage with no emotional fallout.  It takes time to replace that God-belief with something else.  It's a journey, not an event, at least for those of us who found value in it.  So it isn't a flaw in you that makes the process painful.  If it wasn't painful, that would probably mean you never really took it seriously.  I've used the analogy of walking out of a river; the further from shore you are and the deeper you are in the water, the longer it takes to wade out.

[R. S. Martin]

The way I found a local group of nonbelievers was by typing words like humanist and skeptic into Google. That brought up a local group with names and telephone numbers (or was it email addresses; it was so long ago I forget the details) for leaders I could contact. People on here from other parts of the world have suggested similar searches for local face-to-face groups. I understand there's a website or something called Meetup. If you're near an urban centre or large city there's bound to be other nonbelievers of some stripe. They just don't generally have large fancy buildings with signs outside advertising their existence.

[Geezer]

thank you for the warm welcome. it's funny because i woke up this morning thinking about the magical part of all this. i cling to it, sometimes it makes me happy and sometimes it makes me feel like i'm going insane. maybe its part of the human condition to find the magic in life and try and explain away normal occurrences. i've never tried to be completely without god. he/she/it has always been a part of my world view. i do know one thing, the more i let go of that stuff the more i have control of my life. its easier to make decisions, even the difficult decisions. i don't think i have ever had that. agency i think its called. its kinda scary, but maybe giving it a test run like LifeCycle said would be a good thing. I'm working on the leaving part. I think I need to get of the bible belt in general though but thats not an easy move. I do appreciate the comments and welcome. I'm glad there is this space to communicate.

 

Hello fellow Hoosier (Born & raised in IN but have lived in TN since the 70's)

 

Lots of good advice already given to you I can't add much but I will note this leaving religion is a process not an event. It isn't a reverse come to Jesus moment. Many refer to it as a journey & I think that's pretty accurate. And this journey will likely takes years to complete. In my case I needed proof that the Boble isn't literally or historically true. I read many scholars such as Dr. Bart Ehrman & they provided the evidence I was looking for. I began my journey in the late 90's but didn't cut my ties with religion until about 2007. I'm out & free now with no regrets. This site has proven to be very helpful because you can communicate with likeminded folks & find encouragement.

 

Welcome aboard, & I want to encourage you to hang around here & get to know us.

[rbemis81]

Thank you, I think I've found at least a stepping stone. We do have a UU church here. It really is a journey. Basically, I do know what I need to do at least right now. It would be nice to be in a more inclusive environment. Thank you all for your welcome and encouragement, as well as advice. I'm really grateful. I do plan to stick around. 

[dangitbobby83]

Thank you, I think I've found at least a stepping stone. We do have a UU church here. It really is a journey. Basically, I do know what I need to do at least right now. It would be nice to be in a more inclusive environment. Thank you all for your welcome and encouragement, as well as advice. I'm really grateful. I do plan to stick around. 

 

Is this Terre Haute? 

 

The reason I ask is I see SW Indiana and I've been to the UU church in Terre Haute. I live only about 45 minutes away from there.

 

Anyway, welcome aboard. I don't have anything to add, everyone has already said things I would say. Glad you're here!

[rbemis81]

Actually, no, I live in Evansville. There is a UU church here. Thanks