A Humbling Look At Our Universe, For Those Of You Who Havent Seen These

[dd5]

For those of you who have not seen these, this is a recent image of m101.

M101

Right click and download the 60mb tiff or 442mb Tiff and be in awe. Every one of those tiny specks on the ultra high resoltuion image of a cluster of stars that may contain 50-40 stars just like ours. The larger specks are stars much larger than ours. Take a moment to contemplate the numbers in that.

 

We then have the Deep field images, with the repairs in early 2000 we have been taking images that the equations are telling us are about as old as the universe itself.

UDF high def

64mb image of the universe ~12,200,000,000 years ago.

 

We predicted years before these images that if we looked far enough we would hit an age were the universe was simply radiation, which concidentially is what the ultra deep field has shown. If we try to look beyond those images we simply see a veil of radiation which we hope to learn more about with future orbtial telescopes. This is amazing stuff, especially since what we predicted to be there was there, although these are only tiny bits of the puzzle who knows if one day we'll make sense of it all. It's funny how groups of people still act like the earth is at the center of the universe and it was created so everything in the universe revolves around us. Or they come up for some reason why the 50 or so equations for detecting how long light has been traveling are wrong.

In reality we're ants on a battlefield that can be killed at any moment for any reason should we get unlucky and have little to no part in this chaotic drama.

[dibby]

Thanks dd5- absolutely amazing

It kind of puts us in perspective.

[Lycorth]

It is utterly amazing - and really helps to remind a person of how illogical it is, and absurd on top of it, to think of Biblegodzilla being concerned with only one planet out of all those planets in all those systems in all that universe. To think, the Xian would have us believe that all that is crap, and only some other dimension is important.

 

As Thomas Paine might say, those pictures rival the "holiness" of any stained-glass window or illuminated scripture, since they are the work of Nature whilst the windows and scriptures are but works of men - and men with dangerous beliefs on top of it.

[ped]

hello dd5

 

we are ants in just our little galaxy, never mind the thousands of galaxies simply in the sub-arc second UDF.

these kinds of thoughts are my constant reminder of how infantile humanity is.

 

"Or they come up for some reason why the 50 or so equations for detecting how long light has been traveling are wrong."

 

theres nothing worse than a fundamentalist playing biologist, except for one playing a physicist.

[Amanda]

DD5, thank you so very much, for sharing such a breathtaking experience!

 

The awe is just incredible, and adds so much depth to one's perspective of self amongst ALL that!

[Taphophilia]

I have free tickets to NASA. My bosses husband works there and I have been begging her to get them for me. I am going this next weekend.

 

I have a question for really smart people. The galaxy is spinning, am I right? If the galaxy is spinning does that mean the Universe is moving too?

 

Taph

[Fweethawt]

I have a question for really smart people. The galaxy is spinning, am I right? If the galaxy is spinning does that mean the Universe is moving too?

Taph

If I'm not mistaken, everything (all planets/stars) is moving all of the time.

[nirrti]

I don't know what to say.

 

If I use words to describe what I'm seeing, it'll be like putting black spray paint on a Michelangelo painting. It would do this image such injustice. How can we, as humans knowing this is out there go about with our pettiness.....our consuming need to be "right" by making everybody else "wrong"?

 

Maybe this is why the Christian Right wants to hijack our science classes, so they can keep on perpetrating the illusion that this tiny little planet is all there is. After all, what is more affective in spreading power over others, hijacking an airplane or hijacking one's mind?

[ped]

"I have a question for really smart people. The galaxy is spinning, am I right? If the galaxy is spinning does that mean the Universe is moving too?"

im certainly no authority on the topic, but ill give it a stab.

sorta.

no.

the matter in a galaxy isnt spinning its collapsing in a circular fashion.

the universe is not moving perse, but all matter is moving outward in all directions.

 

most galaxies, like the pinwheel have blackholes in the center. that blackhole is so massive that even a photon (light particle, fastest particle with relation to mass in the universe) cant escape its pull, which is the irony of a black hole...there bright! because the light is simply frozen in time, you can only see it as it was the very moment before it fell in.

another fun point to ponder of theoretical physics.. if you were to hover one inch above the event horizon of a black hole for one hour, 10,000 years would have gone by on earth. and you wouldn't have aged at all!

[trashy]

that deep field image has been my desktop wallpaper (on my dual monitor setup) for quite awhile now

[Amanda]

the matter in a galaxy isnt spinning its collapsing in a circular fashion.

the universe is not moving perse, but all matter is moving outward in all directions.

Ped, does this mean that after the Big Bang, gallaxies are still expanding outward... while each gallaxy is collapsing into themselves? Would this either cause the consolidating mass of these gallaxies to gain greater momentum outward or does the weight of unification slow it down? Do you think the expanding forces will eventually stablize or ALL of it collapses back into where the Big Bang started?

most galaxies, like the pinwheel have blackholes in the center. that blackhole is so massive that even a photon (light particle, fastest particle with relation to mass in the universe) cant escape its pull, which is the irony of a black hole...there bright! because the light is simply frozen in time, you can only see it as it was the very moment before it fell in.

another fun point to ponder of theoretical physics.. if you were to hover one inch above the event horizon of a black hole for one hour, 10,000 years would have gone by on earth. and you wouldn't have aged at all!

Wow! So the velocity of light actually creates time?! Would it actually create everything? Does this essentially mean some basic unit of light is what everything is made?

 

I love listening to well informed, logically thinking people like you who can actually mentally grasp all this!

[pandora]

I am sort of ignorant about relativity, so someone please explain how I am wrong (because I am pretty sure I am)... but while technically 10000 years would have passed on earth, that doesn't necessarily mean that our bodies won't age.... I don't understand how this would affect our basic physiological processes. It seems magical. Does anyone know why this would occur?

[dd5]

the matter in a galaxy isnt spinning its collapsing in a circular fashion.

the universe is not moving perse, but all matter is moving outward in all directions.

Do you think the expanding forces will eventually stablize or ALL of it collapses back into where the Big Bang started?

 

I love listening to well informed, logically thinking people like you who can actually mentally grasp all this!

 

 

Amanda, it all depends on the density of the universe, at the moment we suspect there is a large amount of dark matter that we cannot detect. Although recently a paper was published by a university claming they have observed its properties by watching the trail it leaves behind stars, but that paper needs to go through academic review. If there is in fact an incredible amount of dark matter the universe will eventually pull itself apart, if there is less than we expected the universe will go through unification.

[Amanda]

If there is in fact an incredible amount of dark matter the universe will eventually pull itself apart, if there is less than we expected the universe will go through unification.

 

Thanks DD5! Now I have more questions... please...

 

Pull itself apart!!! Don't you mean just stablize, cease to move outward? What do you mean by pull itself apart? A lot of little fragments of the universe suspended separated, and in what?

[dd5]

If there is in fact an incredible amount of dark matter the universe will eventually pull itself apart, if there is less than we expected the universe will go through unification.

 

Thanks DD5! Now I have more questions... please...

 

Pull itself apart!!! Don't you mean just stablize, cease to move outward? What do you mean by pull itself apart? A lot of little fragments of the universe suspended separated, and in what?

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

If there is in fact an incredible amount of dark matter the universe will eventually pull itself apart, if there is less than we expected the universe will go through unification.

 

Thanks DD5! Now I have more questions... please...

 

Pull itself apart!!! Don't you mean just stablize, cease to move outward? What do you mean by pull itself apart? A lot of little fragments of the universe suspended separated, and in what?

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

Also if I'm not mistaken one theory predicts all matter will also break down and disintegrate as well eventually becoming a gas of the elementary particles.

 

 

If there is in fact an incredible amount of dark matter the universe will eventually pull itself apart, if there is less than we expected the universe will go through unification.

 

Thanks DD5! Now I have more questions... please...

 

Pull itself apart!!! Don't you mean just stablize, cease to move outward? What do you mean by pull itself apart? A lot of little fragments of the universe suspended separated, and in what?

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

If there is in fact an incredible amount of dark matter the universe will eventually pull itself apart, if there is less than we expected the universe will go through unification.

 

Thanks DD5! Now I have more questions... please...

 

Pull itself apart!!! Don't you mean just stablize, cease to move outward? What do you mean by pull itself apart? A lot of little fragments of the universe suspended separated, and in what?

 

 

 

Also if I'm not mistaken one theory predicts all matter will also break down and disintegrate as well eventually becoming a gas of the elementary particles.

 

 

 

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

Also if I'm not mistaken one theory predicts all matter will also break down and disintegrate as well eventually becoming a gas of the elementary particles.

 

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

Also if I'm not mistaken one theory predicts all matter will also break down and disintegrate as well

[ped]

read The Elegant Universe

by brian greene.

 

it will explain it all.

 

thats where i got.

[dd5]

i really need to get used to this board i mucked up my post :/

 

read The Elegant Universe

by brian greene.

 

it will explain it all.

 

 

I'd also read the few recent books by Hawking, along with the fabric of the cosmos, Brian Greene's newest book.

[Skankboy]

I am sort of ignorant about relativity, so someone please explain how I am wrong (because I am pretty sure I am)... but while technically 10000 years would have passed on earth, that doesn't necessarily mean that our bodies won't age.... I don't understand how this would affect our basic physiological processes. It seems magical. Does anyone know why this would occur?

 

Time is relative to the observer, that is the big picture behind relativity.

 

Think of a clock. For you to see the time on the clock, light needs to reflect off of the clock and hit your eyes. So technically there's is a VERY small delay between the actual time on the clock and the time you are reading. Now suppose you were able to travel very fast away from the clock but still be able to observe it. The faster you travel away from the clock the slower it will appear to run because the light is taking longer to get to you. Go fast enough and the clock would appear to freeze as you match the speed of the light trying to get to you.

 

Now is this an illusion or is time actually slower (relatively) for the traveler? They've done tests w/atomic clocks on jets that show that indeed, the faster you are moving the slower time is for you relative to a stationary observer. So if I traveled 10 years at near the speed of light and returned, several centuries may have passed for earth, while I will only have aged 10 years! Pretty neat eh?

 

[pandora]

I understand... sort of. I don't buy that one would not age, however... physiological processes would still occur. Unless one goes into a kind of hibernation, this seems impossible to me. Time may be relative according to our human perception, but I don't think time is relative in the bigger scheme of things.

[Amanda]

I understand... sort of. I don't buy that one would not age, however... physiological processes would still occur. Unless one goes into a kind of hibernation, this seems impossible to me. Time may be relative according to our human perception, but I don't think time is relative in the bigger scheme of things.

Pandora, I don't understand these concepts too well... but I did see on a TV science program where if we travel faster, as in a rocket-ship around the world, that our biological systems slow down collectively... significantly delaying the aging process. Maybe someone can explain it better to both of us?

[Skankboy]

I don't buy that one would not age, however... physiological processes would still occur.

 

Oh yes, indeed they would. To the person traveling near the speed of light, time would seem no different, but to an outside observer, time would appear much slower for the traveler than it would for the stationary observer.

 

This isn't theory, they've done it w/atomic clocks and jets. Here's a link describing the experiment. You'll notice the time's different on the clocks traveling than the clocks that are stationary (not alot, but there is a difference). Up the amount of speed and distance, put a person instead of a clock and you'll see what I mean...

 

[Dark Helmet]

which is the irony of a black hole...there bright! because the light is simply frozen in time, you can only see it as it was the very moment before it fell in.

 

A black hole is by definition, invisible, you can't see it directly. Its gravity is so strong passed the event horizon that the escape speed is greater than the speed of light. The reason we do see some of them (especially the huge ones) is because the infalling matter rubs together as it falls toward the event horizon and gets heated to millions of degrees, so it radiates across the energy spectrum. But actually black hole do emit a radiation : Hawkins' radiation, which put bluntly, is caused by the loss of mass of a black hole due to the creation of a pair of particle-antiparticle at the event horizon. If the anti-particle falls into the black hole and the particle escapes, the antiparticle will anihilate with one 'proton' (at the singularity that term is pretty much meaningless) and so lose some mass. That's why microscopic black hole can only exist for a few microsecond : they evaporate!

 

I love astrophysics

 

I'll try to tackle some other questions later, right now it's late and I have a headache

[Dark Helmet]

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

Also if I'm not mistaken one theory predicts all matter will also break down and disintegrate as well

 

Ok a last one and I'm off to bed...

 

Dark energy is what you are probably referring to. We have no idea what it is but it's speeding up the expansion of the universe. Dark matter is what we know is out there but we can't see because it's not glowing gas. When you look up at the sky you only see the 'normal' stuff, stars nebulae, galaxies... but all that mass doesn't add up to what we observe : it's only 5% of the total balance of the universe. To explain the acceleration of the universe we have to account for, I think, something like 60% of dark energy, which leaves us with a deficit of 35% of energy in the universe. That is what we call dark matter, it's out there but we can't see it. We can detect it's effect though and we can map where we think it is by observing the gravitational effects it has on galaxies.

[Reality Amplifier]

Deja Vu - maybe I should have embedded pictures, rather than just providing links...

 

Science Vs. Religion Thread: You Are Here...Not at the Center of the Universe

[dd5]

 

Well for a while we did not understand something. Technically the gravitational pull from everything should be enough to keep it all glued together, but what we have observed is that everything is pushing itself further away from everything. What we're attributing this mysterious push to is to dark matter, which if the theory proves correct means everything in the universe will continue to accelerate further and further away from everything for eternity. Basically a bunch of dark cold rocks floating around by themselves with nothing around them for billions of light years, speeding up their movement for eternity.

 

Also if I'm not mistaken one theory predicts all matter will also break down and disintegrate as well

 

Ok a last one and I'm off to bed...

 

Dark energy is what you are probably referring to. We have no idea what it is but it's speeding up the expansion of the universe. Dark matter is what we know is out there but we can't see because it's not glowing gas. When you look up at the sky you only see the 'normal' stuff, stars nebulae, galaxies... but all that mass doesn't add up to what we observe : it's only 5% of the total balance of the universe. To explain the acceleration of the universe we have to account for, I think, something like 60% of dark energy, which leaves us with a deficit of 35% of energy in the universe. That is what we call dark matter, it's out there but we can't see it. We can detect it's effect though and we can map where we think it is by observing the gravitational effects it has on galaxies.

 

 

We really have no idea what in the world it is, some think it is something completely outside the scope of the standard model.