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Goodbye Jesus

I Am Going To Heaven After All


thunderbolt

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So, I nailed my Christian *friend’s* ass against the wall on another friends blog with the fact that the Jesus myth was stolen from the Pagan gods. This way, that way, he’s not seeing the light (so to speak) - blah blah blah. You all know how the drill goes. In any event, after I explain the Pagan gods in detail to him, he writes:

 

I will say something about this. The story of Jesus looks nothing like that of any other god. By that, I mean morally. There are no stories of Jesus killing his father so he could sleep with his mother. Nor are there stories of him being so caught up in his lust that he would betray his entire army. No stories of Jesus killing someone. No stories of Jesus having sex with every lovely female he encoutered, as is so prevalent with many of the pagan gods. No stories of Jesus dressing up like a woman to seduce a man. No stories of Jesus making virtues out of vices. All of those things the pagan gods are famous for. Which one of them resembles Jesus in any way? The pagan god myths are full of ecstatsy, child sacrifice to orgies, incest, and killing each other, their own family members. How, in any way, does this resemble Jesus? How did the Jesus story survive so morally amongst a people who's only knowledge of gods was that they made virtue out of selfishness? How is Jesus just like them, as you claim?

 

When did Jesus ever demand that his followers make their children burn in the arms of his statue while their parents had sex...with someone else. When does the story of Jesus tell us that he, in his anger, killed all of his servants and brothers, rather than take their blame upon his shoulders? When does Jesus search (as if he would have to search, if he were a god) for decades to find a son he wants to kill in revenge? When did Jesus even once talk about seeking revenge? When did he rape a woman, and then kill the child because he feared the child was destined to kill him someday?

 

I thought I hit the jackpot, so I supplied him with an extensive list (albeit a small sample) of his Biblegod’s atrocities in the OT, because, after all, he and the Jesus is one. The Word made flesh, etc. etc. etc. But he and I have been going at each other for two years now while I was in my “everyone will eventually go to heaven” phase – aka know as the teachings of the Lord God Paul and universal reconciliation. He thought I was the biggest heretic on the block, and that I should take my theological temperature and get saved. In anticipation I wait for his next move (chess is fun) – and I nearly fell of my chair when he responded with:

 

I don't know how to answer this, since I am not certain that I even believe in the Hebrew God, at least not as He is recorded in the books of the Kings and such. I asked how Jesus compares to the pagan gods. In answer to your assertions about Jesus preaching morally evil things, wasn't it you who told me he preached the law to show that all men fall short of fulfilling it? Wasn't it you who was so convinced that Jesus only said those things to bind up everyone so that all could be redeemed by Him?

I still don't believe that Jesus came only to preach the law. Having said that, whatever did happen to those cities that didn't accept him? Like...Jerusalem?

 

and he assures me in closing that he is tired of "arguing" with me, and

 

In the end, it doesn't matter what you believe, and although I know I preached against that for a long time, I hold to that as the truth. Seeing as how you most certainly are not in danger of hell, I hope you remain free, free enough to continue questioning everything.

 

Excuse me??? In some way they remind me of when I was six playing cowboys and crooks with my buddies. Invariably when your friends get the upper hand of the game you change the rules to favor yourself. And that is the BIGGEST problem with “moderate” Christianity. There is nothing solid underneath it, it’s just the illusion of a godman that died and rose again like the Pagan gods, and it’s absolutely no different than worshipping whatever god is the flavor of the moment.

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No stories of Jesus having sex with every lovely emale he encoutered, as is so prevalent with many of the pagan gods. No stories of Jesus dressing up like a woman to seduce a man. No stories of Jesus making virtues out of vices. All of those things the pagan gods are famous for

Apparently these Pagan Gods were also famous for

 

1)Being Born of a virgin

2)Taking on a human form(especially since the OT God explicitly said God is not man)

3)Fighting a all powerfull evil God

4)Baptising in water to "wash away their sins"

5)Exorcising demons

6)Sending people to Hades

 

When did Jesus ever demand that his followers make their children burn in the arms of his statue while their parents had sex...with someone else.

 

Sure, are we forgeting "Let the dead bury their own" or "I have not come here with peace, but with a sword. I have come here to make divisions between families..."

 

When does the story of Jesus tell us that he, in his anger, killed all of his servants and brothers, rather than take their blame upon his shoulders? When does Jesus search (as if he would have to search, if he were a god) for decades to find a son he wants to kill in revenge? When did Jesus even once talk about seeking revenge? When did he rape a woman, and then kill the child because he feared the child was destined to kill him someday?

 

Helloooo, ask him to read the OT. No wonder the Pagans adopted the this new Jewish cult. It gots the best of both world.

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I don't know how to answer this, since I am not certain that I even believe in the Hebrew God, at least not as He is recorded in the books of the Kings and such. I asked how Jesus compares to the pagan gods. In answer to your assertions about Jesus preaching morally evil things, wasn't it you who told me he preached the law to show that all men fall short of fulfilling it? Wasn't it you who was so convinced that Jesus only said those things to bind up everyone so that all could be redeemed by Him?

I still don't believe that Jesus came only to preach the law. Having said that, whatever did happen to those cities that didn't accept him? Like...Jerusalem?

 

Excising Jesus from the "Hebrew god"? :lmao:

 

"I and my father are one."

 

And..a song pops into my head..rather, one line:

 

"You can't have one without the other..." (old song and theme song from "Married..with children.")

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I would say, trinity much?

 

Still seems like this guy isn't all bad, in the end. A bit dense, but not bad.

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Still seems like this guy isn't all bad, in the end. A bit dense, but not bad.

 

Yeah, I can handle Christians like him a whole lot better, except he has this nasty habit of psycho analyzing me. It annoys the crap out of me. He knows what I "believe" and "feel" and how this "fad" is going to leave me ending up being very disappointed.

 

This was his actual comment:

So now you are on a fad where the answers lie in rational thought and science, as far as I can tell. I would give you advice to stay away from that crowd, and its mantra, I think you are going to be far more disappointed in them than you ever were in "Christians".

 

If you want real science, and real ratioinal thought, you are going to have to go to the corporations that make things people use. However, that type of research and development isn't nearly as dramatic as the stuff of myths, beginnings, and evolution. On the other hand, if it really is truth you are looking for, then the only place where science, research, and truth collide in this world is inside of a cubiclke where an engineer has been told to make something better, or cheaper, or more practical. Outside of that, it's ALL politics and power struggles in the scientific community.

 

Ugh.

:Doh:

 

I see his next project is to "getting into evolution and modern lience (science?)" as he calls it. Gawd, that's going to be hilarious - cannot wait. He already asked me what I believed about EVILution before deconverting and how I feel about it now. I ignored his question. I am not a scientist, but I would like to call in the cavalry if anyone is interested. I promise, it will be amusing.

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No stories of Jesus killing someone.

 

In one of the apocryphal books Jesus kills a little kid. And I'm pretty sure he kills some people in Revelation.

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In one of the apocryphal books Jesus kills a little kid. And I'm pretty sure he kills some people in Revelation.

 

And he even kills a fig tree for not giving him figs, even though he knew figs were not in season yet. What an ass.

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In one of the apocryphal books Jesus kills a little kid. And I'm pretty sure he kills some people in Revelation.

Now that's putting it mildy. In Revelation Jesus goes on an all out murder spree, killing wantonly and without any restraint whatsoever. Jesus in revelation makes what Stalin did look like a lazy summer day in the park :eek:

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The story of Jesus looks nothing like that of any other god.

I don't know what Christians hope to gain by saying this, but they sure say it alot. It's like saying the story Little Mermaid is different than Moby Dick, so the Little Mermaid must be true :Doh:

 

You certainly have more patience than I to continue these types of circular discussions :grin:

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  • 4 weeks later...
I see his next project is to "getting into evolution and modern lience (science?)" as he calls it. Gawd, that's going to be hilarious - cannot wait. He already asked me what I believed about EVILution before deconverting and how I feel about it now. I ignored his question. I am not a scientist, but I would like to call in the cavalry if anyone is interested. I promise, it will be amusing.

Ok, project underway, and fundie already been ripped an new ass. See here. It just pisses me off when they use words like "random," "natural" and "intelligent" without having a fucking clue what they are talking about.

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