LosingMyReligion Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 This has always bothered me. What was sacrificial about Jesus' death on the cross? Yes, I know that he went through all this pain and bloodshed for the church. However, how was it sacrificial? He came back from the dead, merely three days later, and he was the most powerful being in the universe. A sacrifice, to me, is when you willingly give up everything and gain nothing in return...Jesus had everything, gave up everything for a few days, and got back more in return... If I knew before hand that I had to take a severe beating before being rewarded a billion dollars I think I would drink heavily and take alot of pain killers... I just never understood that and I probably never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I've always wondered what the big deal was too... but as a Christian, I thought, "hey, if it means I go to heaven, whatever man..." I have heard some say that total separation from God is what Jesus experienced... and that was the sacrifice. It seems SOMEONE would have to experience this torture forever, however, to make up for hell or whatever. It's all so nonsensical that I have a hard time even coming up with ways to express how I viewed it as a Christian. I guess I just accepted it. More liberal Christians and some sects (such as Eastern Orthodoxy, I think) don't see it as a sacrifice, though... so that takes away that problem in their view. Jesus' crucifixtion has a totally different meaning for them so the problem does not arise. Jesus as Lamb of God/blood atonement, although a view in the early church, is only a evangelical/fundy thing these days. As a Catholic, I never understood it as a sacrifice, but maybe Catholics do see it this way.. it's just not stressed in the theology of salvation. I am not familiar the other perspectives on this enough to say how else they interpret it.. maybe Amanda and O_M can enlighten us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 I've always wondered what the big deal was too... but as a Christian, I thought, "hey, if it means I go to heaven, whatever man..." I have heard some say that total separation from God is what Jesus experienced... and that was the sacrifice. It seems SOMEONE would have to experience this torture forever, however, to make up for hell or whatever. It's all so nonsensical that I have a hard time even coming up with ways to express how I viewed it as a Christian. I guess I just accepted it. More liberal Christians and some sects (such as Eastern Orthodoxy, I think) don't see it as a sacrifice, though... so that takes away that problem in their view. Jesus' crucifixtion has a totally different meaning for them so the problem does not arise. Jesus as Lamb of God/blood atonement, although a view in the early church, is only a evangelical/fundy thing these days. As a Catholic, I never understood it as a sacrifice, but maybe Catholics do see it this way.. it's just not stressed in the theology of salvation. I am not familiar the other perspectives on this enough to say how else they interpret it.. maybe Amanda and O_M can enlighten us? Yeah, even when I was a christian it made no sense. But like the good little dog...Wait, I'll give dogs more credit than that...Like the good little drone I was I just believed everything I was taught. Just so long as I believed it I would goto heaven... Now, that I see Christianity as a fanciful myth I realize that it makes no sense whatsoever...And the idea of a virgin giving birth is like something out of a Greek myth. Basically, God just came upon her and made her get pregnant. What if she didn't want to get pregnant at the time? What if Mary wanted to graduate highschool and goto some college in Babylon or something? Okay I'm being totally facetious but...The weirdness of it all is just crazy... My parents taught me to not believe in fairy tales(ironically, I love writing fantastical short stories), but I was taught the story of the bible as absolute truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I've always wondered what the big deal was too... but as a Christian, I thought, "hey, if it means I go to heaven, whatever man..." I have heard some say that total separation from God is what Jesus experienced... and that was the sacrifice. It seems SOMEONE would have to experience this torture forever, however, to make up for hell or whatever. It's all so nonsensical that I have a hard time even coming up with ways to express how I viewed it as a Christian. I guess I just accepted it. More liberal Christians and some sects (such as Eastern Orthodoxy, I think) don't see it as a sacrifice, though... so that takes away that problem in their view. Jesus' crucifixtion has a totally different meaning for them so the problem does not arise. Jesus as Lamb of God/blood atonement, although a view in the early church, is only a evangelical/fundy thing these days. As a Catholic, I never understood it as a sacrifice, but maybe Catholics do see it this way.. it's just not stressed in the theology of salvation. I am not familiar the other perspectives on this enough to say how else they interpret it.. maybe Amanda and O_M can enlighten us? I'd like to try. I like the total separation from god that you mentioned. I think this is what happened when he yelled, "My god, my god, why has thou forsaken me!" Even if we look at it as a myth, there is meaning there, IMO. I think it represents the awakening or enlightenment that can come from extreme suffering. His 'coming back from the dead' represents him opening his eyes from spiritual death...not a physical resurrection. Hell is a state of mind (egoic) that causes one to suffer and also those around them. We all know people like that! I think that eternal life is referencing living out one's life in a natural state of awareness that is not of the ego. Eternal damnation is living out one's life in an egoic state of mind, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks, nbtl. You seem to have grown a lot and gotten a lot of insight in the past few months or so. Or maybe I just don't remember what you were like before then. I can see what you're saying, and it's beautiful, but given that I doubt there is a God, I just can't agree that it all has that much meaning. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I have heard some say that total separation from God is what Jesus experienced... and that was the sacrifice. I've heard this, too, but there's still some problems with it. How could god be separated from himself? Jesus was/is god in totality, unless the trinity is...gasp...made up! And for that matter, what about Satan? Surely he experienced complete separation from God, being a fallen angel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I have heard some say that total separation from God is what Jesus experienced... and that was the sacrifice. Good luck figuring that one out. As AGF says, if Jesus and God are one, how could they be seperated? How does a person get separated from himself? Doesn't make sense. Well, it did happen to me that one time, but a bottle of Jack Daniels had a lot to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Heh... I can't help but find it so amazingly bizarre how Xians can even consider Jesus dying but coming back to life three days later as a sacrifice of any kind. At best, it's a inconvenience. A real sacrifice would put Jesus in Hell, burning for all eternity in place of all humanity, none of whom could be damned to eternal suffering no matter their sin or crime. Now that would be something to hoot and holler about, if I were a Xian. Jesus' so-called "sacrifice" just opened the door to a lifetime of playing games and appeasing an invisible friend just to win entrance into heaven. Thankfully, none of this can be proven to be true, and such an indian-giver for a god isn't real. That, to me, is the true "good news" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 dont forget the ever popular "he died for us because he loved us." did he really want to die? then why did he complain "my god. my god. why have you forsaken me?" and that goes back to Mythra's point. how the HELL could jesus and god be one? he's asking himself why he's forsaking himself for CHRIST's sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ TexasFreethinker ☆ Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Most humans would offer themselves to save humanity under those terms. Hell, I'd be willing to die for three days to save humanity knowing that I'd return in perfect condition. No real sacrifice there. However, many humans have given their lives (forever) to save others that they love. Now that's a real sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Most humans would offer themselves to save humanity under those terms. Hell, I'd be willing to die for three days to save humanity knowing that I'd return in perfect condition. No real sacrifice there. However, many humans have given their lives (forever) to save others that they love. Now that's a real sacrifice. agreed. there is no real sacrifice there. i would also sacrifice myself for any of my loved ones, or for the sake of humanity. and as stated at the start of the post: However, how was it sacrificial? He came back from the dead, merely three days later, and he was the most powerful being in the universe. A sacrifice, to me, is when you willingly give up everything and gain nothing in return...Jesus had everything, gave up everything for a few days, and got back more in return... i would definitely do it if i knew i would come back 3 days later with supernatural powers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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