Angel Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I have really been thinking about this since I saw something white_raven23 commented on in this thread, http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=7390 This was one comment that stood out to me she said.... white_raven23: I came to understand the science behind the Holy Spirit sensation. And while I slowly came to realize that feeling wasn’t what I thought it was, I was also coming to realize I had more control over those sensations than I originally thought. When I was into pentecostalism, I was really big on tongues. I spoke them, but it was always in the back of my mind everytime that it was ME and not god doing it...which I have come to the conclusion, it WAS me and emotionalism played a huge roll in it. I have also "fallen" out in the spirit. That was something that I have wondered about...that and feeling the presence...was it my own mind doing it all? Is there an explaination for it? When I left the church and the beliefs, I always felt that it was all emotionalism, letting the emotions get the better of you and your imagination going wild. What is your take on it? From reading other posts, a lot of you have also experienced this. What is the science of it? Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmarlin Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I have really been thinking about this since I saw something white_raven23 commented on in this thread, http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=7390 This was one comment that stood out to me she said.... white_raven23: I came to understand the science behind the Holy Spirit sensation. And while I slowly came to realize that feeling wasn’t what I thought it was, I was also coming to realize I had more control over those sensations than I originally thought. When I was into pentecostalism, I was really big on tongues. I spoke them, but it was always in the back of my mind everytime that it was ME and not god doing it...which I have come to the conclusion, it WAS me and emotionalism played a huge roll in it. I have also "fallen" out in the spirit. That was something that I have wondered about...that and feeling the presence...was it my own mind doing it all? Is there an explaination for it? When I left the church and the beliefs, I always felt that it was all emotionalism, letting the emotions get the better of you and your imagination going wild. What is your take on it? From reading other posts, a lot of you have also experienced this. What is the science of it? Thanks all. Angel, be glad you left the church... as of today, you would be a second class citizen once again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I think people "feeling" the presence of the Holah Spirit is just psychomatic, like when the followers of any religion who are fervent enough claim to feel the presence of their god or gods or anything similar. If a person wants to see or feel something badly enough, they will find a way to feel it, no matter how unbeknownst to them. I felt the spirit many times as a Xian. Especially in the confessional or at certain points of the Mass, I'd feel very moved and tried to ascribe that to the Holah Spirit's influence. Of course, even back then I had an inkling that it really was not any spirit doing the work, but rather my own normally-functioning human brain reacting to powerful imagery that I had a fondness for. It's sort of the same principle as the basic thrust of LaVey-style Satanic magic and ceremony; you surround yourself with the asthetic trappings that you know have the best effect on you (in accordance with certain guidelines, of course) and that will in turn help you to get more into the ceremony or ritual and hence get the most out of it. All Xian art in churches, especially Catholic and Eastern Orthodox ones, are geared towards the same principle, that of creating what a Satanist would call an "intellectual decompression chamber" effect, a place where you can suspend reality and get into whatever it is you're trying to do. I respect that people choose different religious paths in life, but all the evidence I think points to the believer feeling his or her own "spirit" rather than some intangible god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_L Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Well I was brought up Catholic, and by brought up I had to go to mass every sunday if i stayed in my grannys, but I was never forced to believe anything, I was just made to go, then when I turned 16 my granny let me decide if I wanted to go or not. But whenever I went into the chapel I felt all light headed because of the insense etc. It made me feel really good and relaxed, I used to think it was God but I always saw it as just the presense of god as opposed to a gift or anything like that. I guess my point is that things like smells etc that trigger the senses can create that feeling of another presense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integral Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Here is the philospher Osho's ideas on this subject: "I don´t see that there is any God who created the world. I certainly experience a quality of godliness in existence, but it is a quality, not a person. It is more like love, more like silence, more like joy, less like a person. You are never going to meet God and say hello to him, how are you? I have been looking for you for thousands of years; where have you been hiding? God is not a person but only a presence. And when I say "presence," be very attentive, because you can go on listening according to your own conditioning. You can even make "presence" something objective--you have again fallen into the same trap. God is a presence at the innermost core of your being: it is your own presence. It is not a meeting with somebody else." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Here is the philospher Osho's ideas on this subject: "I don´t see that there is any God who created the world. I certainly experience a quality of godliness in existence, but it is a quality, not a person. It is more like love, more like silence, more like joy, less like a person. You are never going to meet God and say hello to him, how are you? I have been looking for you for thousands of years; where have you been hiding? God is not a person but only a presence. And when I say "presence," be very attentive, because you can go on listening according to your own conditioning. You can even make "presence" something objective--you have again fallen into the same trap. God is a presence at the innermost core of your being: it is your own presence. It is not a meeting with somebody else." I've heard that one mentioned alot, usually by liberal Xians who seem to be moving away from their cult in general. That one I've also heard applied to various pagan gods and faiths, and to me it seems an attempt to rationalize what would be hard for a human being living in our day and age, that is belief in a god in some way. It is all very interesting, but still makes the case that when a believer "feels" something it is as a result of his or her own brain and thought processes, not the intervervention of any god-like being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 everytime i do drugs i feel the presence!! nah jk... i agree that it is pyschosomatic. it's all in the head. psychologists and scientists have proven that when we try hard enough to believe in something, for us it does becomes true. whether it's belief in a thought [like a supposed fact or lie that when we say it enough times, we start to believe it's true], or a physiological matter [like in studies where people are given a sugar pill and told it's a type of medicine]. the result is what we know as a placebo effect. we also know it as the power of suggestion. im also reminded of how effects on our body are blamed on a pressence. i know we all hear stories all the time of people waking up in the night and feeling a presence. sometimes they even see ghost or aliens. the common factor in all these stories is that they wake up, feel a presence, the cant talk or move, then all of a sudden they break free, and of course... it's all blamed on some unknown pressence. truth and scientific explanation for that is called sleep paralysis. basically youre half asleep and half awake. your mind is some what awake, but your body is still physically asleep. that is why you are aware of your environment, but you cant move or talk. since your mind is still half asleep, your dream is mixed in with what you see and hear in your environment. this explains how some people see ghosts, demons, and even angels. the first time this happened to me i heard and saw aliens running around in my room and that scared the "HELL" out of me!! this would be another example of how a pressence can be felt. but if you want, i prefer to take drugs to feel the presence hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 My whole opinion on this can be summed up by the Dalai Lama. In the book The Art of Happiness, the author/psychiatrist tells the DL that he knows that spiritual experiences and thoughts and emotions are just chemicals and synapses firing in the brain. The DL got a thoughtful expression and said, "Are the chemicals in the brain causing the thoughts? Or are the thoughts causing the chemicals in the brain?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-COG Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 My whole opinion on this can be summed up by the Dalai Lama. In the book The Art of Happiness, the author/psychiatrist tells the DL that he knows that spiritual experiences and thoughts and emotions are just chemicals and synapses firing in the brain. The DL got a thoughtful expression and said, "Are the chemicals in the brain causing the thoughts? Or are the thoughts causing the chemicals in the brain?" That is what I'm interested in finding out. Not only for so-called religious experiences, but also for depression and other problems often associated with chemical imbalances. There are those who have always believed that you can change your actions and life just by thinking differently. On the other hand, many people seem to need medication to straighten out whatever is going wrong in their system. "Change your thinking, change your life" may not work for everyone. Perhaps it's an issue of degree? Wasn't there an experiment done in Canada concerning an area of the brain that controls spiritual experiences? They could wire you up, stimulate that area and people would have spiritual feelings, visions, etc. Even people who were not religious, would have feelings of euphoria. Drat, I don't remember what the website was where I first read about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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