Guest Lsettr Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 To a Concerned Wiccan First, Jessica--thanks for your passionate voicemail. I realize it must be difficult to hear someone on the radio describing what you practice as a "neopagan, occultic new religion." But I cannot honor your request to stop characterizing it such. To do so would--first--be a lie. And in my values system, not sharing the truth would be akin to watching you step in the path of a speeding train, and doing nothing to warn you. You take issue with our referring to your wiccan belief as a "new religion;" you argue that the practice pre-dates Christianity. You're partly right. Part of the challenge we face is verbiage. Wicca is, by its own practitioners' definition (at wicca.com), a neopagan, modern religion that existed before the practice of Christianity. It did not exist before Christ...Who has always been, and shall always be...but wicca, witchcraft, and earth worship did exist before the Christian faith was first practiced here on earth. Of course, all kinds of behavior have been around longer than Christianity...but that doesn't make such practices healthy or correct, either. "Neopaganism" and "new religion" are, by the way, accurate terms in this case, as they reflect the syncretism, the fusion of different beliefs that is now loosely termed as "wicca." I wouldn't call Ron Rhodes' technically-accurate description of your belief "slander," however. Comparing wicca unfavorably to Christianity is a matter of personal opinion. I would agree that I'm "discriminating" in favor of my faith, because I'm called to do so, by my Savior's Great Commission. In fact, more people should be "discriminating" about their faith, really...because the stakes are very, very high. So you have the right, Jessica, to close your browser window right now, and you will no longer suffer from such discrimination. But if you're still reading this...please pay close attention...because you need to hear what I'm about to say. And if you're really listening, its truth will resonate deep inside your heart...because the One Who created you, placed within you a need that can be fulfilled in no other way. Yes, Jessica, you are a created being. You didn't climb out from under a rock, or evolve from a glob of protoplasm. You were CREATED by Someone Who loves you passionately...and wants to have a relationship with you that will last for all eternity...long after the rocks and trees, animals and stars you now worship have faded away. For those things, too, are mere creations. They did not exist before time, and will not always be. They have no power to love, and they are not your brothers and sisters. Nature and the earth exist only for the joy and pleasure of the Creator. This creation was placed here to sustain you and me, for we are not like the beasts and hills and oceans. We are created in the very image of God--and that makes us special. The beauty around us is here to point us toward the Creator...to inspire us to worship Him...not the creation itself. For His Word says that, "The heavens declare the glory of God, the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech... there is no speech or language where their voice is not heard..."* Yes, Jessica--when the rocks and streams speak to you, it is the language of God's love you hear. He is calling your name, with a still, small voice you can discern...if only you would listen. For, thousands of years ago--when He created the first humans--they turned from Him, just as you are now. They willfully broke off their relationship with God. This is called "sin," and you and I are just as guilty--as their descendants--as were the first man and woman. When those created beings fell, all creation fell with them. That's why we have what science calls the second law of thermodynamics, and entropy. Earth and sky continue to decay all around us, and are--therefore--unworthy of our worship. But God provided a "second Adam"--the one called Jesus Christ--and through Him, gives us an opportunity to repair that broken relationship with Him. We can escape a second, spiritual death that will follow our physical death. And the good news is, you can do so right now. You can turn from worshipping a broken, dying creation...and find new, eternal life...worshipping the Creator. Simply do this--right from your heart. Recognize that you, indeed, have no relationship with the Creator God--that makes you a sinner. Ask Jesus Christ to be the Lord of your life; let Him know that you want to follow Him, not just today, but forever. Tell Him that you want to turn from all the things you know to be wrong, and instead, make His Word--the Bible--the standard for your behavior, and your beliefs. Receive His free gift of eternal life, and turn away from the punishment that is eternal death: separation from God, with no hope of rescue. You can choose life right now, Jessica. Please do so! Then you may securely, and forever, pray in Jesus' Holy Name. Amen. And maranatha! Thanks for listening, Jessica. Your heavenly Father awaits your response. *Psalm 19 http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mdan...date=02/09/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBeeland Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Why is THE TRUTH subjective to christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Yeah, that pretty much sums up their world view. Man is better than all of creation and creation is not all that great. Any good you feel in this world is unworthy and false because it doesn't square with their theology which props itself up with horseshit treatment of science. Put that in your bible and stuff it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 christians are so stupid really i should say just ignorant. but willful ignorance is what i call stupidity. they could atleast study up on wicca before they condem it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well, in the first part, he is right... no Wiccan today practices like the ancients did. Modern Wicca IS syncretic. Things are bound to be lost in translation and change over the centuries, and adsorb new things from different times and cultures as history marches on. But the rest is despicable... I give him credit for being nice about it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well, if that's what the Xian bonehead thinks, why should he not say it? It's a free country after all. And yes, that is a great example of the Xian worldview. Man is sooo great because Gawd made us - but isn't man sooo evil because we are human? It sounds very nice, this sweet and wonderful thing this Xian is trying to sell to Jessica, but after Jessica converts then she gets the "you're a steaming dog turd without the blooooooooood of Jesus! Glorah!" routine. Isn't it lovely how the Babble-thumpers bait you in with the pretty version and then gear up to give you the ugly version after you're warming the pew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 To a Concerned Wiccan First, Jessica--thanks for your passionate voicemail. I realize it must be difficult to hear someone on the radio describing what you practice as a "neopagan, occultic new religion." But I cannot honor your request to stop characterizing it such. To do so would--first--be a lie. Lsettr, why do you listen to that radio station? Doesn't your radio get any other channels? I mean this in a nice way... I'm just curious as to why someone as progressive as you would even spend two minutes of your time on this? They have no power to love, and they are not your brothers and sisters. Nature and the earth exist only for the joy and pleasure of the Creator. This creation was placed here to sustain you and me, for we are not like the beasts and hills and oceans. We are created in the very image of God--and that makes us special. The beauty around us is here to point us toward the Creator...to inspire us to worship Him...not the creation itself. When those created beings fell, all creation fell with them. That's why we have what science calls the second law of thermodynamics, and entropy. Earth and sky continue to decay all around us, and are--therefore--unworthy of our worship. You can turn from worshipping a broken, dying creation...and find new, eternal life...worshipping the Creator. Simply do this--right from your heart. Recognize that you, indeed, have no relationship with the Creator God--that makes you a sinner. Unbelieveable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well, in the first part, he is right... no Wiccan today practices like the ancients did. Modern Wicca IS syncretic. Things are bound to be lost in translation and change over the centuries, and adsorb new things from different times and cultures as history marches on. But the rest is despicable... I give him credit for being nice about it, though. of course the thing that no fundy would admit is that christianity is one of the most syncretic religons in the world, they borrowed from the jews, the greeks the romans, the mystery cults....I could go on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 of course the thing that no fundy would admit is that christianity is one of the most syncretic religons in the world, they borrowed from the jews, the greeks the romans, the mystery cults....I could go on Kuroikaze, I agree! It seems to me these teachings attributed to Christ and his disciples did do this... hence the mission calling for reconciliation of it ALL. IMHO, this is a good thing! The only way one can attain this is by NOT considering themselves better than all the rest. Fundamentalist and extremeist interfere with this process because of their self imposed elitist position. It seems to me that every philosophy, science, discipline has a piece of the puzzle... including Wiccan, and if we put them all together, we can see the whole picture much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmarlin Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I have no words to really relay how ridiculous this whole thing is.... But... all I can say is, that's Xianity for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lsettr Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Kuroikaze...I didn't listen to it actually. I have an RSS feed from a pagan based website and this was one of the articles they posted to entertain their viewers. There is no way I could stomach any talk show hosted by a ....I just thought I would relay it here so all of us X-xtians can read, comment on, and use as further proof why we aren't xtian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinfmct87 Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Well, in the first part, he is right... no Wiccan today practices like the ancients did. Modern Wicca IS syncretic. Things are bound to be lost in translation and change over the centuries, and adsorb new things from different times and cultures as history marches on. But the rest is despicable... I give him credit for being nice about it, though. He wasn't being 'nice' about it, he was being that unique Christian-esque bran of sickly-sweet condisention. He's not giving fair respect and consideration to Jessica's thoughts or feelings, he's blindly witnessing without even considering changing his stance because GodTellsHimTo. This is not an act of love This is 'Come into my parler...' said the spider to the fly.... He's assuming that Jessica in this case(and anyone else who listens to his program) are stupid enough to abandon reason(and their own faith) in the face of his poisonus rant. It's disgusting. jrmarlin: Nice sig, dude. Great quotes, both. Rock on. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Kuroikaze, I agree! It seems to me these teachings attributed to Christ and his disciples did do this... hence the mission calling for reconciliation of it ALL. IMHO, this is a good thing! The only way one can attain this is by NOT considering themselves better than all the rest. Fundamentalist and extremeist interfere with this process because of their self imposed elitist position. It seems to me that every philosophy, science, discipline has a piece of the puzzle... including Wiccan, and if we put them all together, we can see the whole picture much better. yeah, I've certainly noticed that christians who are more liberal have no problem admiting the syncritistic nature of early christianity, probalby because they aren't sold out to narrow minded view of christianity and the bible, if I had been presented with a liberal version of christiantiy from the begining I might not have felt the need to throw out the whole thing. That actually brings up something I was thinking about the other day, I was thinking about gnosticism and it seems to me that overall it was a much more openminded version of early christianty, and it made me wonder what some of the more liberal and openminded christians think about gnosticism....a bit off topic though, maybe I'll start a thread about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Kuroikaze, I don't know much about Gnosticism, although from what I have read about them... I do NOT allign with much of their beliefs. I have often wondered if modern day pharmacology and natural herbal remedies are just an extension of Wiccan practices though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyn Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 I've done a tiny bit of reading about Wicca and goddess spirituality. Wicca in its current form dates back to the 1950s. Gerald Gardner wrote a book about witchcraft at that time. There are Italian witches who claim that their form of witchcraft has been passed down family lines for hundreds of years. However, the worship of goddesses and gods dates back to prehistoric times. Sacred groves and temples built to honor gods and goddesses are mentioned throughout the Old Testament. Jebus may predate Wicca but doesn't predate goddess, god, and nature worship. Modern pharamcology has discovered, belatedly, that some herbs, remedies, etc, from European or Native American shamen actually do work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaliceTheEntwinedRaven Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 To a Concerned Wiccan Of course, all kinds of behavior have been around longer than Christianity...but that doesn't make such practices healthy or correct, either. I assume you imply that Wicca is unhealthy and incorrect? I would agree that I'm "discriminating" in favor of my faith, because I'm called to do so, by my Savior's Great Commission. In fact, more people should be "discriminating" about their faith, really...because the stakes are very, very high. Ok so , your "Savior's Great Commission" is the calling that the God of the jews places in your soul...yes? But where do you get this calling? Does he, the "oh so great father", whisper in your ear? Because hes never whispered in mine! How can you sit here and preach to jessica, bashing are religion, and professing your own. As if you know you are "saved", and you should, "convert" every 'ity-bity' pagan. Christianity is, one of the larger religions, but I truly feel its is a falsehood, covered by fear, discrimination and years of covering lies. Rewritten bibles cannot be respected nor trusted. Contradictions run wild in the christian religions... But if you're still reading this...please pay close attention...because you need to hear what I'm about to say. And if you're really listening, its truth will resonate deep inside your heart...because the One Who created you, placed within you a need that can be fulfilled in no other way. Yes, Jessica, you are a created being. You didn't climb out from under a rock, or evolve from a glob of protoplasm. You were CREATED by Someone Who loves you passionately...and wants to have a relationship with you that will last for all eternity...long after the rocks and trees, animals and stars you now worship have faded away. For those things, too, are mere creations. They did not exist before time, and will not always be. They have no power to love, and they are not your brothers and sisters. Nature and the earth exist only for the joy and pleasure of the Creator. This creation was placed here to sustain you and me, for we are not like the beasts and hills and oceans. We are created in the very image of God--and that makes us special. The beauty around us is here to point us toward the Creator...to inspire us to worship Him...not the creation itself. For His Word says that, "The heavens declare the glory of God, the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech... there is no speech or language where their voice is not heard..."* Yes, Jessica--when the rocks and streams speak to you, it is the language of God's love you hear. He is calling your name, with a still, small voice you can discern...if only you would listen. For, thousands of years ago--when He created the first humans--they turned from Him, just as you are now. They willfully broke off their relationship with God. This is called "sin," and you and I are just as guilty--as their descendants--as were the first man and woman. When those created beings fell, all creation fell with them. That's why we have what science calls the second law of thermodynamics, and entropy. Earth and sky continue to decay all around us, and are--therefore--unworthy of our worship. So the earth and sky in which we worship.(which are just the forms of The God and The Goddess), decay... but I would rather worship something that decays, than something that is not seen, and must be worshiped through faith... did Jesus not die and decay? So why worship him? In the image of the father, Correct?. We as wiccans(most), belive in the unity of all gods, and all things, under one enitiy that we could call spirit. The great thing that is out there. And it created us, and will forever reincarnate us into other worlds. Why try and convert the converted? You(christians), have such a battle that is going on now. And it is a joke battle at that. Stop trying to "Save" people, who dont want to be saved. My religion(wicca) is one that (if you are true), could not be broken down. Why belive in Satan? Blame him for you 'sins'? The devil is not in hell, hes inside you and as it seems hes bursting out of you right now! You call your self, a man of god(or what ever) and you dont follow the compasion that your god teaches, nor do you follow the anti discrimination that Jesus teaches, "We should all be equal!"( not verbatim )... You can turn from worshipping a broken, dying creation...and find new, eternal life...worshipping the Creator. Simply do this--right from your heart. Recognize that you, indeed, have no relationship with the Creator God--that makes you a sinner. Ask Jesus Christ to be the Lord of your life; let Him know that you want to follow Him, not just today, but forever. Tell Him that you want to turn from all the things you know to be wrong, and instead, make His Word--the Bible--the standard for your behavior, and your beliefs. Receive His free gift of eternal life, and turn away from the punishment that is eternal death: separation from God, with no hope of rescue. You can choose life right now, Jessica. Please do so! Then you may securely, and forever, pray in Jesus' Holy Name. Amen. And maranatha! Why would one accept jesus as their savior and not his father? Would you not say that by accepting jesus you accept, and embrace the father and the holy spirit? You say she(we) have no relationship with "the creator god-that makes you a sinner". But this is read as hypocricy, because your god is "the creator", no?You say that , HIM and HIS WORD, (as you refer to Jesus Christ)to be your standard and such. But in truth(following your doctinres), the bible is indeed the word of God(men). not jesus(whom did not write a line in the handwritten version of the bible.)and yes some books are the words of jesus, and others are the words of 'the god of the jews'. Why pray in Jesus's holy name? And not God, or God of the jews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 To a Concerned Wiccan First, Jessica-- blah blah blah http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mdan...date=02/09/2006 My Response: Go take your bible fairy tales to someone who really believes in the bible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Well even when I had a "relationship with God" I still felt unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 His post reminds me of how New Agers were demonized when I used to go to pentecostal churches in the 80's. Many Christian preachers seem to thrive on making their flock feel threatened by religions that pose absolutely no threat to them. It's very easy to pick on the kid who you know isn't going to retaliate. When I was a young Christian, I thought that New Agers must be the most rotten people on Earth due to all of the sermons I'd heard about their wickedness. Then, as a teen, I met several agers and realized they were just hippies. I found it hard to be threatened by tree smokers and started to realize how stupid the preachers of my old churches were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 His post reminds me of how New Agers were demonized when I used to go to pentecostal churches in the 80's. Many Christian preachers seem to thrive on making their flock feel threatened by religions that pose absolutely no threat to them. It's very easy to pick on the kid who you know isn't going to retaliate. When I was a young Christian, I thought that New Agers must be the most rotten people on Earth due to all of the sermons I'd heard about their wickedness. Then, as a teen, I met several agers and realized they were just hippies. I found it hard to be threatened by tree smokers and started to realize how stupid the preachers of my old churches were. Yeah, I've also had fundies telling me that anything whatsoever to do with New Ageism is completely satanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 His post reminds me of how New Agers were demonized when I used to go to pentecostal churches in the 80's. Many Christian preachers seem to thrive on making their flock feel threatened by religions that pose absolutely no threat to them. It's very easy to pick on the kid who you know isn't going to retaliate. When I was a young Christian, I thought that New Agers must be the most rotten people on Earth due to all of the sermons I'd heard about their wickedness. Then, as a teen, I met several agers and realized they were just hippies. I found it hard to be threatened by tree smokers and started to realize how stupid the preachers of my old churches were. Very true; I thought all non-xians, especially New-Agers/Wiccans/Pagans-of-any-stripe were the worst people in the world, due to the propaganda I heard as a Xian. Especially during my year-long fundy phase, I heard loads of preaching and pontificating on the subject. Then I, too, met some of the above. I saw that they were just human beings with differeing opinions, though that took some time to arrive at. When I was a Xian, I was coming off my angry youth phase, so I needed people to hate to continue to feed the beast within. Xianity provided plenty of people to hate. It took time to see tham all as just different people rather than demented monsters who hate anything good and positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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