Christians & Christianity

[jrmarlin]

I was outside enjoying the nice cool weather after the 80 degree day and a thought occured to me. They say you can judge a person's intellect by the amount of words they use. Meaning. The average intelligent person would use about 10,000 words of the over 500,000 words in the English language. Why is it, when Xians come on here to discuss things like their faith and the babble, they only use about 30 different words? Has anyone else noticed the limited vocabulary of an Xian or is it just me being a picky, anal-retentive intellectual snob?

 

I also started going down that venue and thought why can't more xians be intelligent -- and engage in intellectual debates? One would think if you're trying to win people to your "way" of thinking, you would use vocabularies that mirror your adversary. Then I realized that most xians are not that intelligent or else they would look at the bible and go, "What? Are you fucking kidding me? Go WHORING for GOD? That's fucking insane..."

 

But then again intelligence is not necessarily correlative to common sense. Even a person with average common sense i.e. street smarts, would look at xianity and see all the glaring flaws within the ideologies, verbage, mannerisms and the thought of "serving" an angry, vengeful and vindicative God just seems a little too far fetched for most common sense entrepeneurs.

 

I can't believe that all xians have the common sense of a fruit fly. There has to be some intellect running around between those ear lobes. It can't be all the "void of space" that is liken to a time vaccum. There has to be something ticking.

 

Do xians have to be wired different to worship Jesus? Is there some kind of genetic or psychological malfunction or hiccup that causes one to look at such ridiculous banter and find one shred of intellectual path within it? Maybe I'm just being picky but sometimes I think that Xianity and Intelligence don't mix - especially when you add in common sense. It's like a very big oxymoron.

 

I would love to know. As a lot of your folks know, I was never a die-hard xian and far from being anything remotely close to a fundamentalist; therefore, I am not privvy to things of this nature.

 

I would like to hear your thoughts. You are more than welcome to share -- ex-cs and xians alike.

[Mythra]

Kind of odd, isn't it? I wonder if part of the brain kind of shuts off when faith is introduced.

 

I was a christian for a very long time. In the back of my mind, I knew that things weren't adding up, but at that time I attributed those doubts to Satan, who was trying to pry me away from the faith.

 

Now that I'm out, I'm having trouble even understanding how I bought off on it for so long.

 

Christianity presents a truly genius method of mind control. The writers of the New Testament were not dummies. They covered every base.

 

Doubts - Satan is attacking you.

 

If you fall away from God, you will fall into a state of desperate, uncontrollable wickedness and sin.

 

Smarter people scoffing or presenting reason - Wisdom of the world; nothing compared to God's wisdom as revealed in the bible. The wisdom of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

 

Life takes a few shitty turns - your faith is being put to the test - to develop your character. Endure to the end. The father is preparing a place for you.

 

Cutting back on your giving = robbing God. Keep it up and you'll receive a curse on you and your children. (from Malachi)

 

And, on and on it goes. These bible verses so permeate your mind that you are no longer able to truly think independently.

[jrmarlin]

Kind of odd, isn't it? I wonder if part of the brain kind of shuts off when faith is introduced.

 

I was a christian for a very long time. In the back of my mind, I knew that things weren't adding up, but at that time I attributed those doubts to Satan, who was trying to pry me away from the faith.

 

Now that I'm out, I'm having trouble even understanding how I bought off on it for so long.

 

Christianity presents a truly genius method of mind control. The writers of the New Testament were not dummies. They covered every base.

 

Doubts - Satan is attacking you.

 

If you fall away from God, you will fall into a state of desperate, uncontrollable wickedness and sin.

 

Smarter people scoffing or presenting reason - Wisdom of the world; nothing compared to God's wisdom as revealed in the bible. The wisdom of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

 

Life takes a few shitty turns - your faith is being put to the test - to develop your character. Endure to the end. The father is preparing a place for you.

 

Cutting back on your giving = robbing God. Keep it up and you'll receive a curse on you and your children. (from Malachi)

 

And, on and on it goes. These bible verses so permeate your mind that you are no longer able to truly think independently.

First off Mythra, I have one question and one off-topic comment. A) Who is your avatar? And I LOVE your signature. Great saying. Please don't lose that one any time soon as all should see it!

 

I agree with everything you're saying. I think xian faith is the ultimate of all ultimate crutches. You have a crutch (support) for everything good and bad. If it's good, it's God, if it's bad, it's Satan. No in between. No responsibility.

 

The only thing is when the illusion is shattered and you realize you really don't have a backstage pass to the Imortality after-party, I have to wonder why there aren't more bitter ex-xians.

 

Its just sad that people don't pride themselves on their individuality and feel that false crutches are better than thinking on their own. I really do pity most xians.

[Eponymic]

And, on and on it goes. These bible verses so permeate your mind that you are no longer able to truly think independently.

 

That, and it takes away accountability. Our inherent sinful nature is responsible, or the devil is responsible, or annie's cousin fannie is responsible. Anyone but God & yourself usually.

[jrmarlin]

And, on and on it goes. These bible verses so permeate your mind that you are no longer able to truly think independently.

 

That, and it takes away accountability. Our inherent sinful nature is responsible, or the devil is responsible, or annie's cousin fannie is responsible. Anyone but God & yourself usually.

Ep, I usually think it's the ultimate responsibility dodge for the "self" part of your last statement. God can't really make people do anything... As Al Pacino said in the Devil's Advocate, "Free Will, it's a bitch."

 

The Ultimate Smoke & Mirrors.

[Kuroikaze]

I can't speak for everyone, but I came to christian faith when I was at a loss and very confused about life. It was my parents religion, and they started going back to chruch and forcing me to go along, I suppose in some ways it did actually help me.

 

I got involved in fundamentalism because my parents did, and they dragged me along with them. 5 years of being a religion major, as well the fact that christianity seriously fucked up my life during my college years, broke me of fundamentalist notions.

 

I think belief mostly from a desire to find a group to belong to, and the ability to compartmentalize faith.

[Mythra]

I'm pretty sure my avatar is Cuba Gooding, Jr.

 

From the movie Jerry McGuire.

 

He's just such a happy little fella.

 

 

I pity christians too. So many of them are imprisoned within their own minds and the world that they've built around themselves (including family, church responsibilities, images to maintain, etc)

 

That they can't escape, even if they wanted to.

 

It's no good to feel cornered with no way out.

[jrmarlin]

I pity christians too. So many of them are imprisoned within their own minds and the world that they've built around themselves (including family, church responsibilities, images to maintain, etc)

 

That they can't escape, even if they wanted to.

 

It's no good to feel cornered with no way out.

But the saddest thing is it's a house entirely built of cards. And so easily it will shake and fall to the ground the very moment independent thought enters the picture. Someone on here said that Christianity is the ultimate escapism.

 

Do you know what happens to a rat that's cornered with no way out? It goes bonkers. People will do the same thing. Look at all the xian xtremists running around!

[Mythra]

Do you know what happens to a rat that's cornered with no way out? It goes bonkers. People will do the same thing. Look at all the xian xtremists running around!

 

That reminds me of something I read quite recently. (I can't remember where) ... There is something in Israel known as Jerusalem Syndrome. It is quite common.

 

Christians (the article said primarily from the United States) frequently have episodes, while visiting Jerusalem, where they completely lose it. They frequently become so disoriented that they think they're Mary Magdalene, or Peter, or some other biblical character. They are often naked and completely whacked out when they get picked up by the Israeli authorities.

 

The article said that after a day or two they are back to normal and are released.

 

Some type of religious ecstatic experience or something?

 

Weird.

[Lycorth]

Some type of religious ecstatic experience or something?

 

Just a bunch of people without much of a grip on reality.

[All Gods Fail]

Do you know what happens to a rat that's cornered with no way out? It goes bonkers. People will do the same thing. Look at all the xian xtremists running around!

 

That reminds me of something I read quite recently. (I can't remember where) ... There is something in Israel known as Jerusalem Syndrome. It is quite common.

 

Christians (the article said primarily from the United States) frequently have episodes, while visiting Jerusalem, where they completely lose it. They frequently become so disoriented that they think they're Mary Magdalene, or Peter, or some other biblical character. They are often naked and completely whacked out when they get picked up by the Israeli authorities.

 

The article said that after a day or two they are back to normal and are released.

 

Some type of religious ecstatic experience or something?

 

Weird.

 

Something similar happens to tourists in Florence, when people see too much historic art (statue of David, Sistine Chapel, etc). They get dizzy, disoriented and pass out.

 

Like hypnotizing chickens...

[Guest singlecoil]

I think it is so hard to see the truth when you're in xianity is that it so circular. If something good happens then god gets all the koodos and if something bad happens then you get the blame ( you were't in "god's will") either way god never loses and so is never exposed as being anything less then perfect. It works the same way with doctrine. If biblical teachings don't match up to reality (oh let's say prayer for instance) then there is always circular reasoning in place that forces the conclusion that if it does not make sense then it must be me, because the bible is not wrong. At least that's my experience in fundyville.

 

Mythra, I think your avatar is from a Kmart comercial for Joe Boxer underwear. I have no idea who the person is but that is where I've seen it before (perhaps I'm the king of useless info)

 

I think it is so hard to see the truth when you're in xianity is that it so circular. If something good happens then god gets all the koodos and if something bad happens then you get the blame ( you were't in "god's will") either way god never loses and so is never exposed as being anything less then perfect. It works the same way with doctrine. If biblical teachings don't match up to reality (oh let's say prayer for instance) then there is always circular reasoning in place that forces the conclusion that if it does not make sense then it must be me, because the bible is not wrong. At least that's my experience in fundyville.

 

Mythra, I think your avatar is from a Kmart comercial for Joe Boxer underwear. I have no idea who the person is but that is where I've seen it before (perhaps I'm the king of useless info)

 

I didn't see an edit function so here it goes. The first sentence should read "I think it is so hard to see the truth when you're in xianity because it is so circular" .

[Thurisaz]

And, on and on it goes. These bible verses so permeate your mind that you are no longer able to truly think independently.

 

Exactly. The doctrine of fundyism is (almost) like a black hole. No matter where you turn, you can't get out. Everything you could possibly (fail to) do fits into the well-designed delusionary "reasoning" in that accursed book.

 

(the "almost" is in there just to incorporate those people who manage to break out anyway...)

 

If you ask me, it's not that christians are stupid (well, at least most of them aren't). On the contrary, I'm quite sure that most still have all their brains - but 95 % of their brain cells have been reassigned to work only inside the box of fundie dogma. This is why I like to describe a fundie's "effective IQ" as in the single-digit range. It's like you have a modern supercomputer and just use it for "10 print "hello world" 20 goto 10".

[jrmarlin]

I have found through meeting a lot of people that Intelligence is not indicative of common sense nor logic. Perhaps this would explain why a lot of xians do not get it when the illogical banter and belief systems dictated in the bible are inaccurate and sometimes completey wrong. You can't get through because xians just plain out and out refute everything that is said, contrary to their bible. Some don't even realize what their bible says in the first place and you know the minister is not going to enlighten them by pointing out any glaring errors.

 

To do so would be like a used car salesman trying to sell you a car but says, "You know, it's a fantasic car but it's likely to breakdown on you in about 20K miles."

 

While we know all cars breakdown - that's just logical sense but, what kind of person would buy it on that sales pitch?

[Amethyst]

I think it's not that they don't have common sense, but that common sense shuts down when it comes to religion. That's why fundies still believe.

 

Non-fundy Christians may not take the Bible literally and they may cherry pick, but they believe in god or else they wouldn't go to church. For some it's a superstition that going to church will somehow help them when things get rough. Others make friends at church and don't want to give them up by admitting they don't really believe.

 

It's a combination of peer pressure and doing mental gymnastics in order to keep believing literally in a 2,000 year-old myth.

[jrmarlin]

I think it's not that they don't have common sense, but that common sense shuts down when it comes to religion. That's why fundies still believe.

 

<snip>

 

It's a combination of peer pressure and doing mental gymnastics in order to keep believing literally in a 2,000 year-old myth.

Actually, I was referring to people like Chris on this board that come on and give you this jargon that is devoid of any common sense. The whole browbeating for Christ is old and I don't see where they thing they're going to sway anyone into their way of thinking when they act like they that. It shows a lack of common sense - or possibly good salesman skills.

[jrmarlin]

JR, were you ever a Christian and if so were you a fundy? Just asking, it seems easy for me to see where Chris and others like him are coming from because I was once of the same mindset. However, I also understand that if you weren't ever a Christian how hard it may be for you to know just how crazy it is on the inside. I was one for over 30 years, looking at things from this side now, I certainly can see where you're coming from. It looks insane.

I was what most would call, a Christian Lite, you know, like Coffee-lite. Seriously. I was never a die-hard bible thumping church devoted follower of christianity.

 

I went to church because my parents made me go but I think, for them, it was more for social reasons than religious reasons because when we (my sister and I) grew up no one goes to church anymore. So, it does look a little nuts when I see people like Chris or that chick on Trading Spouses going on about being a God Warrior. It's scary!

[jrmarlin]

I was what most would call, a Christian Lite, you know, like Coffee-lite. Seriously. I was never a die-hard bible thumping church devoted follower of christianity.

 

LOL

 

So, it does look a little nuts when I see people like Chris or that chick on Trading Spouses going on about being a God Warrior. It's scary!

 

I bet! I was like you in going to church as a child but when my teen years came about stopped going but maintained the belief and occasionally read the bible and prayed until the age of 30. At 30, it started fun in a charismatic church then I don't know what happened. Reading the NT for myself (not ever having read but bits and pieces of the old) I started convincing myself that being a professer of the faith wasn't good enough and but that works were indeed required....I think that I brainwashed myself and because I was not an OSAS believer I was terrified of screwing up and going to hell. It was then that I became a full-fledged fundy, bible literalist. Thank goodness my DH put up with my insanity and I didn't destroy my children.

 

That phase lasted 2 years until I finally, without blinders and pre-conceived notions, read the whole bible for the first time. I was devastated at this god that I thought was so loving and merciful. Then the bible "heroes" looked more and more like zeros, instead of the great men I had always been taught were so freakin' great.

 

Much happened in that five years, it was an emotional rollercoaster...glad I was able to pull myself out of it.

I have been working with a fundie and I am shocked that he doesn't know as much as I do about the bible. It is very disturbing. I point out verses and chapters all the time to him. He has this weird way of trying to explain away the violence. He even went so far as to tell me "All Jews go to hell" and I said to him, "So Jesus is in hell because he was a Jew." And then he says, "That's not what I meant..." It just cracks me up.

 

But he is really on that Genesis 3 kick. Where women are subserviant to men. So I challenged him to go home and tell his wife he was not going to do a "honey-do" because she should know her place. Needless to say, he didn't take me up on that one.... Wonder why????