Happy to be here

[Riversong]

The easiest way to explain is by writing some of the things that have been happening lately.  I hope it all makes sense!

 

I ended up in the therapist’s office, realizing that I have been dealing with chronic depression since adolescence(I am in my 30’s).  I had assumed that the feelings of numbness were from a lack of gratitude and a sub-par personality.  I knew, after all, that I was never good enough for God to love me on my own merits.

 

I realized that my in-laws were not only frustrating, they were emotionally and spiritually abusive. I realized that my husband was also controlling and emotionally abusive.  Fortunately, after confronting him on that point, he did a 180 and I now have an equal partner in the house. 

 

I realized how blind Christians are to abuse.  They are unable to recognize and confront the issue.  This is because they are in an abusive relationship with God/Jesus.  His ways are higher than our ways.  Trust him in all things, trust not your own understanding.  Be grateful for your suffering.  After all, you are worth nothing and it’s only because of God/Jesus’ great love for you that he doesn’t just send you to hell right now. 

 

If you were to tell a Christian about an abusive event or person, they would pray for you to forgive and not to hold grudges.  If Christianity were legit, they should be striving to be the best in caring for people.  Instead, they bury their heads in the sand and require others to do the same. 

 

I realized the level of misogyny in the church.  I realized how little Christians care for other people.  The concepts of empathy and honesty are completely disconnected from actual actions.  You would think that if you were promised heaven, and you knew that non-christians didn’t get to go, that you could at least make life easier for non-christians in the here and now.  Instead, Christians want priority treatment in this life and the next.  The same with the doomsday preppers.  They are not stockpiling food for their neighbors; it is only for themselves. 

 

The recent election.  The mental gymnastics required to believe trump to be the Christian candidate is mind-boggling.  And more importantly, the moral struggle is not even apparent to Christians.  They simply know that they are right, in the way that they are right about everything else.  Because of course, others are deluded by their own sinfulness. 

 

All of the above led me to realized that I would be healthier mentally and physically if I were not a Christian.  I have a condition where it would have been preferable to be on the birth control pill since I was a teen. Of course, I wasn't because only promiscuous women would be on something like that.  I also recently started antidepressants.  The idea that a god and a group of believers would rather I be without both medications, and be forced to endure pain and depression(and either enjoy it as a trial of faith or else realize it is mine to bear because of my unbelief) is just cruel. 

 

I’ve done a fair bit of church-hopping throughout the years due to moves.  All the churches I went to had different issues.  In none of them, did I ever hear anything that caused me to doubt the quality of my life or marriage relationship.  Of course I was so lucky to be a married, Christian mother!  What else could I want out of life? 

 

Whenever there is a problem where a believer is tempted to leave church, they are usually told it is their fault in some way.  They questioned too much or they believed something incorrectly.  I followed all the rules, I did what they told me, I was obedient.  It screwed me over. And then kicked me when I was down by asserting that I was doing something wrong in some way.  Who knows what way.  But if I prayed more and had more faith, things would work out.

 

I think it is the problem of suffering and prayer that did me in.  We are told to expect big things from God and step out in faith.  When prayers aren’t answered, we get different answers.  We shouldn’t expect God to grant everything we ask.  And that we need to accept that it’s all part of God’s plan. 

 

The final piece was a recent event when I began to understand how much it all is in your own head.  I decided that we were receiving the call to adopt a child.  My good friend is adopted and I’d always thought we would want to as well.  I ignored my husband and my son’s hesitancy.  I just knew in my bones that God wanted us to do this.  When I read my devotions in the morning, certain verses would clearly jump out to me to confirm my thoughts.  Sermons would be about motherhood or stepping out in faith.  Even our financial situation held no qualms for me.  After all, the just will live by faith.  I knew that if God were calling us to this, there isn’t anything that could stop us.  Unless it was, of course, our own unbelief.  We were considering adoption of a special needs child from China.  Never mind the fact that we both have residual medical anxiety from my husband’s past medical issues.  And never mind the fact that we already have two children that stretch us to capacity.  Adoption forums are filled with Christian families who ignore any information about trauma and attachment and focus only on how nothing is impossible with God.  It blows my mind that I was willing to make such a decision in the face of the realities of life and believe that it was God's calling to me.  

 

 This lovely fantasy all crashed down when we had a big family brouhaha with the in-laws over the recent election.  We couldn’t agree with franklin graham that the election was a “Christian victory.”  We were shouted down by FIL who later justified his behavior by giving chapter and verse proof that he was bullying us to make good choices in the same way that God himself is a bully.  The rest of the family lapped it up and knew that he was only looking out for the good of the family. {insert pukey face}

 

I thought for a while that I could become a liberal/universalist type Christian.  However, if everyone is going to heaven, why bother with all the church stuff?  Surely I could find better uses for my time and money.  And in the end, I realized that if the message is either useless/unneeded on one hand or abusive on the other, I don’t want anything to do with it.

 

Last month, I told myself, “I’m not a Christian anymore.”  And I took a deep breath of air.  I felt so much more peace than I have than any other time in life. I wanted to share my story here and it has been helpful for me to read other ones on here.  I found that someone recommended the patheos blog "godless in dixie," which has also been a great find.  Thanks for reading!

 

[DarkFlash]

An abusive relationship with God i'd easily say is accurate, otherwise not only would there not be any non-believers, but as devoted as we've been publicly no matter whom it is, we'd be in great shape. Or. .should be? While undergoing these medical issues are questions forever lingering yes? Why? How? What about me? My contributions? On a constant do they come, so why is the almighty on the cusp of pressure? A sluggish deity? Too many questions to ask idiocy around us. I mean he shouldn't be if he's the true answer to not only all of us but resolving what isn't of him, such as how you were spoken to. Where's the equality in that? Though distanced now strongly, throughout these epic and inspiring ex-timonies in which i've read do I still ask myself  'after so long of this illusioned way of worship once believed to have a strong meaning and path to eternal life, solutions in likeness to what we've gathered in terms of knowledge shouldn't have birthed themselves to bring us to various forums. .such as this.' How susceptible Trump's victory over Hilary in the aftermath had turned out to be further confirms points proven with me being handed biblical knowledge of 'man ruling no matter what the case as is'. But if that were the case, titles such as Councilwoman or First Lady would be dismissed on either instance or never introduced publicly at all; though here we stand once again on the nonsensical and wondrous plateau with us non-believers yet again pointing at the laughable as usual.

 

I've digested that attempting to please a figment of imagination is not only meaningless, but also stupid and with you being here says quite a bit about, like us, your knowledge of seeing the erroneous in such clear sight Riversong. With us in the eyes of many christians was it never enough. During my time was I told that i'm not reading my bible enough or seeking the zombie jew for those answers. Hell, I was even told that in wanting a wife, to write a journal on why and what I wanted in her. But. .if we're discussing an aerial sky daddy and the primary creationist of our lives, shouldn't he know of our wants, needs, etc? I mean, he's needed every single day otherwise not a single complaint would be heard about him though in us wondering are we still hit with the most feeble of answers on again, simply why. An example being--your depression and also, my recent diagnosis of Epilepsy. As i'm sure that like myself were you often hit with claims of his huge plans for you, to not give up, to continue to seek and you'll eventually find, to pray and magnify the skybound directory so that you're 'eternally blessed' and also, like you are these answers awaited. Very weak responses in junction to a verse that stood out with me from Timothy 1 being that if you were to suffer with him that you'd reign with him. When the news with my results were placed on the table was I only told 'well we're not going to claim that'. But again, I mean, here I am still telling myself that. .as devoted as these people have been for years including us, these 'blessings' should be well deserved yes? Ridiculous.

 

Great is it to see you and with open eyes now are you able to witness truth in itself be it within church or even outside of them. I'm thankful like others that you did something more are so fixated upon, like my parents, cannot loosen themselves to do and though sorrowful can I just watch and often take jabs at just equidistant to them about religion and their lack of credibility toward themselves because of this forever yet strengthened belief. To be mentally entrapped is really something, isn't it? You've made it known to yourself so you never know who you'd impact next to you futuristically. Welcome to Ex-C. 

[Riversong]

Thanks for the welcome!  The name it and claim it folks are something else. I've also heard the "we're not going to believe that" as a solution to a health diagnosis. Not sure how making a person feel guilty for trusting a medical doctor counts as caring.  

 

yea, also heard about writing down a prayer list for a future spouse. It all feels pretty silly now. 

 

A person son really is entrapped in their own mind. Scary and sad to see others on the other side. 

 

Glad to to have found this site!

[MOHO]

Glad you found us, River.

 

Also glad to hear that Mr. Riversong saw the error of his abusive ways. When I point out Mrs. MOHO's abusiveness she pitches a major wobbly and shouts "You are a reprobate and listening to satan when you defy my athoritah!"

 

Believe me, nothing is worse than Mrs. MOHO with athoritah.

 

Anyway, stick around and keep reading all kinds of anti-fundy serum - here and books we/you can recommend.

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 minutes ago, MOHO said:

Glad you found us, River.

 

Also glad to hear that Mr. Riversong saw the error of his abusive ways. When I point out Mrs. MOHO's abusiveness she pitches a major wobbly and shouts "You are a reprobate and listening to satan when you defy my athoritah!"

 

Believe me, nothing is worse than Mrs. MOHO with athoritah.

 

Anyway, stick around and keep reading all kinds of anti-fundy serum - here and books we/you can recommend.

 

Lol I just pictured Mrs. MOHO as a short fat south Park character with a toboggan on. LMAO! Cartman is the effect you were going for with that right?

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Welcome to Ex-c River,

      I'm sure you will find that this site is full of people that want to help you and encourage you. It's a great thing that you came to this conclusion early in life. I hope your treatments work well for your depression. Some christians think everything can be solved with prayer but as most of us can attest, that isn't true. My former church was one of the reasons laws were passed protecting children from over zealous Christian parents who refused to take their children to the doctor. They are still very adamant about faith healing but they don't preach against doctors anymore.

 

DB

[DarkFlash]

In them opposing how we've entrusted our lives or even the most menial of illnesses to doctors does it yet again circulate back to questions we've asked even during our times of believing. Where, and why. It never fails but while it's easy for them to bring the biblical hammer down on you, their lack of consideration is rarely seen within themselves but with those with the issues is it easily plain. Just how casual they can be in vocal tones and just slapping oil on you can disgust the visible, but also serve as that perfect sign of motivation to finally walk away without regrets. So very much are you welcomed here with us, but also is it pretty awesome that you can live fearlessly while also having that strong awareness of how deluded they all are in the end. To claim victory amongst many in the end via mental strength and retain your marriage is easily enough in saying 'I have what I need. Time to move on to betterment in terms of success'.

 

Make it happen, Riversong.
 

[MOHO]

50 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Lol I just pictured Mrs. MOHO as a short fat south Park character with a toboggan on. LMAO! Cartman is the effect you were going for with that right?

 

DB

 

You got it, DB!

 

Mrs. MOHO is actually quite attractive but kinda has a bit of Cartman going on ...

[Riversong]

Moho- life is just no fun when someone is trying to dominate you...for your own good, no less. 

 

DarkBishop- I've enjoyed reading some of your posts. I admire that you looked for evidence for the sake of your son. And didn't tell him to "just believe."  

 

Darkflash- thanks for the kind words!  After the last 6 mos I've been through, I'll take it. The one thing that I'm happy about in all of this is that I do finally see how deluded we were in so many aspects. You can't get too far if you don't even know where you are. 

 

Looking fwd to getting to know you all! 

[DarkFlash]

To actually believe at one point that I would, like many other gullible believers, someday succumb to this magical, bodily augmentation called the Holy Ghost then by far was the stupidity felt once I woke the hell up and realized for years where I was wrong. For you to join us is a blessing; though of true use and meaning.

[Aethelred]

Welcome, Riversong. We are here for you.

[Margee]

Welcome to Ex-c  Riversong. It is letters like the one you wrote that keep me coming back here for support everyday. I could relate to your story to the point of having tears well up in my eyes this morning. Coming from a messed up childhood, into Christianity when I was 20, led me to accept mental and physical abuse for a great deal of my life. And the church that promised me that god had something really 'big' for me ended up making me feel (in the end) that I was not a worthy person. I was also told that I ask too many questions and that I hadn't given my life completely over the the lord. This led me to using alcohol (during a backslide away from the church) during my late 20's which completely screwed me up further. Of course, I went back for more damage in the following years thinking that if I just 'get it right', god would be so proud of me. It has only been in the past few years  that I can look back over my whole life and see the control that everyone had on me because I was so 'soft hearted' and always wanted to please everyone including (and especially) god. The damage that is done to people in the name of god is unforgivable. I am so glad you are getting this while you are young. And I am so glad you are here with us. Thank you so much for sharing your testimony with us. I am really looking forward to hearing more from you.

 

Big (hug)

[♦ Fuego ♦]

"As i'm sure that like myself were you often hit with claims of his huge plans for you, to not give up, to continue to seek and you'll eventually find, to pray and magnify the skybound directory so that you're 'eternally blessed' and also, like you are these answers awaited."

 

Yep, it is a giant and continual bait-and-switch game with promises of a giant payout (and dire threats about leaving). God does nothing ever, fails his promises continually, and programmed believers say "He has a better plan" that we won't tell you about even though you allegedly have an intimate relationship with him. Believers keep each other in line, trying desperately to get the big payout at the end (and sometimes before the end). Some leaders realize this is a great con and get rich off of it. Others buy into it totally and spend their lives making more drones that spread the virus. Some of us make it out of the cult and come here to help others and to enjoy the presence of other ex-Christians.

[Riversong]

2 hours ago, Margee said:

Welcome to Ex-c  Riversong. It is letters like the one you wrote that keep me coming back here for support everyday. I could relate to your story to the point of having tears well up in my eyes this morning. Coming from a messed up childhood, into Christianity when I was 20, led me to accept mental and physical abuse for a great deal of my life. And the church that promised me that god had something really 'big' for me ended up making me feel (in the end) that I was not a worthy person. I was also told that I ask too many questions and that I hadn't given my life completely over the the lord. This led me to using alcohol (during a backslide away from the church) during my late 20's which completely screwed me up further. Of course, I went back for more damage in the following years thinking that if I just 'get it right', god would be so proud of me. It has only been in the past few years  that I can look back over my whole life and see the control that everyone had on me because I was so 'soft hearted' and always wanted to please everyone including god. The damage that is done to people in the name of god is unforgivable. I am so glad you are getting this while you are young. And I am so glad you are here with us. Thank you so much for sharing your testimony with us. I am really looking forward to hearing more from you.

 

Big (hug)

Thank-you for this!  It's amazing that christians don't understand the damage that is done with the recipe of "others first, suffer like Jesus, deny failure and keep on going."  I think it really took my life falling down around me to realize that I was suffering *because* of my faith and not *in spite* of my faith. I've had some issues with alcohol as well, stopped drinking last month and it feels good to be making decisions based on what is good for me. And not based on what I think a mysterious and invisible being *might* want me to do if I could somehow hear from him. The freedom from that switch in perspective is unbelievable. Glad you got there as well and again, happy to be here!

[Riversong]

41 minutes ago, Fuego said:

"As i'm sure that like myself were you often hit with claims of his huge plans for you, to not give up, to continue to seek and you'll eventually find, to pray and magnify the skybound directory so that you're 'eternally blessed' and also, like you are these answers awaited."

 

Yep, it is a giant and continual bait-and-switch game with promises of a giant payout (and dire threats about leaving). God does nothing ever, fails his promises continually, and programmed believers say "He has a better plan" that we won't tell you about even though you allegedly have an intimate relationship with him. Believers keep each other in line, trying desperately to get the big payout at the end (and sometimes before the end). Some leaders realize this is a great con and get rich off of it. Others buy into it totally and spend their lives making more drones that spread the virus. Some of us make it out of the cult and come here to help others and to enjoy the presence of other ex-Christians.

Yes!!!  All god and other christians need is a little bit more than what you gave yesterday. 

[Riversong]

You know what, I realized another thing that caused the questions to start popping up for me. I read the book "In Order to Live" by Young-Mi Park. It tells the story of her escape from North Korea. One of the steps of her escape involved Christian missionaries in china. The missionaries would keep a group of escapees and convert them before letting them on to the next step. She wrote that she didn't understand the whole concept of a prayer of repentance and forgiveness until she compared it to the ritual of communal fault-finding that they took part in while in n Korea. Basically, everyone was a part of a neighborhood group and each week you would have to admit any wrong-doings before the rest of the group. 

 

It it made me question how these missionaries could be so misguided as to require a conversion in the midst of such a horrendous and grueling life and while on the edge of escape. Firstly, how could it be legitimate?  Secondly, how could similar tactics be used by christians and brain washing dictators?  Thirdly, at what point is someone's actual life worth more than their possible eternal life?  Surely a speedy escape is safer for them?  And fourthly, why is having a horrible opinion of yourself necessary for faith in such a loving god?

[MOHO]

54 minutes ago, Riversong said:

You know what, I realized another thing that caused the questions to start popping up for me. I read the book "In Order to Live" by Young-Mi Park. It tells the story of her escape from North Korea. One of the steps of her escape involved Christian missionaries in china. The missionaries would keep a group of escapees and convert them before letting them on to the next step. She wrote that she didn't understand the whole concept of a prayer of repentance and forgiveness until she compared it to the ritual of communal fault-finding that they took part in while in n Korea. Basically, everyone was a part of a neighborhood group and each week you would have to admit any wrong-doings before the rest of the group. 

 

It it made me question how these missionaries could be so misguided as to require a conversion in the midst of such a horrendous and grueling life and while on the edge of escape. Firstly, how could it be legitimate?  Secondly, how could similar tactics be used by christians and brain washing dictators?  Thirdly, at what point is someone's actual life worth more than their possible eternal life?  Surely a speedy escape is safer for them?  And fourthly, why is having a horrible opinion of yourself necessary for faith in such a loving god?

 

Sounds like being held for ransom to me.

[DarkFlash]

That fourth opinion is often used as a means to lure you in, though it's respected on your behalf that in similarity to us was the repellent used on such bullshit to begin with. I remember seeing what you told us about your depressive status of mind and I asked myself why, for starters, if you were fully embracing the 'holy spirit' on these occasions why exactly did every occurrence like this not only make itself known, but even the wonders to join and eradicate your emotional pain since, after all did we seek that smile from christ himself. Those who've devoted very strong and yearly portions of their lives to me, as I said before, should have knowledge that, well. .calling him out is menial and in some cases, never in mind if you're so confident in this relationship with God. Every church you've attended does it appear that it's assisted in you re-creating every experience and further enlightened your views to walk without regret, so with that alone is it awesome to embrace but as I said before, at times feel for who truly believes in this type of idiocy. An example to me is the skeptical science of what I grew up in being Pentecostalism as just. .empty babbling that'll never, in likeness to God, make itself known to one's understanding. With every excuse you were given became points proven as to why it was finally time to go.

 

To be 'christ-like' with the influence of Job in their mixture of angelic Kool-Aid doesn't define much either, so i'll also ask this. Where was he before you picked the bottle up to begin drinking? It's one of the worst choices during a state of depression and though i've never tried alcohol in my life, the knowledge is still there through listening to another's talk of their moments in mental escapes. To awaken gives me disgust that even I fell prey with an impression that deliverance was coming alongside this supposed 'calling' on my life. Retaining a strong will through God himself with every bottle right? That makes so much sense to those whom you probably decided to confide in because you needed help. But why did you have to do that when the sky daddy himself, your 'creator' was around to consult with timely and effortlessly? You made the right move and instead of passing on credit toward nothingness like these idiots sitting on pews, look within yourself and know that it was none other than Riversong who made the true impact.
 

[Riversong]

6 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

Sounds like being held for ransom to me.

Exactly...

btw, sorry to ask a dumb question, but how do you "like" a post?  

[buffettphan]

12 hours ago, Riversong said:

Exactly...

btw, sorry to ask a dumb question, but how do you "like" a post?  

 

Members get the ability to "like" a post after they've made a certain number of them.  (Somewhere around 25 if I recall correctly).   A little rectangle with a heart that says  "like this" on right side of the post will automatically show up.   Click that and taaaa-daaaaa.

[Riversong]

12 minutes ago, buffettphan said:

 

Members get the ability to "like" a post after they've made a certain number of them.  (Somewhere around 25 if I recall correctly).   A little rectangle with a heart that says  "like this" on right side of the post will automatically show up.   Click that and taaaa-daaaaa.

Haha- perfect- thanks!  

[MOHO]

16 hours ago, Riversong said:

Exactly...

btw, sorry to ask a dumb question, but how do you "like" a post?  

 

Like that.

I KILL me!

[Riversong]

3 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

Like that.

I KILL me!

LOL!  

[DanForsman]

My position is that christianity is very damaging to certain personality types. I think you're one of those and believe I can sense your new found joie de vivra beginning to bubble out. Congratulations! I'm very sure that the rest of your life is the good part. I love reading what you have to say both here and elsewhere on this site and thank you so much for adding your clear thoughts, empathy and hard won wisdom to our community here. Welcome Riversong!

[Riversong]

13 hours ago, DanForsman said:

My position is that christianity is very damaging to certain personality types. I think you're one of those and believe I can sense your new found joie de vivra beginning to bubble out. Congratulations! I'm very sure that the rest of your life is the good part. I love reading what you have to say both here and elsewhere on this site and thank you so much for adding your clear thoughts, empathy and hard won wisdom to our community here. Welcome Riversong!

Thank-you!  Yes, I agree that religion is more damaging to certain personalities. I do like to think the best of people, and I really believe that many christians truly don't believe/understand how some can be so hurt by Christianity. I know I really internalized the fact that I didn't have the peace and joy that I knew I ought to as a Christian. Therefore, I felt that something really was wrong with me. I didn't talk to question the whole system. My sense of self was determined by what I thought god thought about me. It's awesome to start changing my view of myself and the world. Thanks and best wishes!