How Do You Tell Fundy Friends You No Longer Believe...

[nirrti]

Ever since my deconversion, I've been avoiding a friend who's a fundy Christian. To give you an idea of how deep she's in, I told her once (and this is before I left Xianity) I didn't believe the whole bible was the word of god. She had a fit, saying I didn't believe in her god and the way she was carrying on, I might as well have said I was a devil worshipper.

 

Well, instead of confronting her about my total dis-belief, I've just avoided her, hoping the problem would "magically" take care of itself. She's very controlling, wanting everyone to be just like she wants them to be, making every attempt to change them if they're not "saved". I haven't talked to her for over a year since I've also been dealing with depression, trying to get well and don't think I'm emotionally ready to handle the drama telling her would cause. Yet she continues to call, most of the time, not leaving a message but hanging up as she already knows I hate talking on the phone, anyway. It wasn't just a matter of my beliefs, I'm just tired of having to be someone I'm not around people. If I'm going to be close to somebody, I want that person to love the whole me, not for who they think they could make me become.

 

Today, she came over to my place unannounced. I've already told her I don't like her coming unless I okay it first a long time ago but she still does it. I know she's probably worried but a part of it, I'm sure, is about control. I was tempted but I just couldn't answer the door......I guess I'm too chicken. I was awakened from my sleep (I'm nocturnal) and didn't feel like coming to the door all crusty before washing up, either. I got to hand it to her for persistance. She sat outside the door for an hour and a half, probably assuming I was at work and I'd be home soon. I know...I know, but still, is it normal for anyone to sit outside someone's door like that, especially when it's not a romantic relationship? Is she obsessed with me or something?

 

Anyway, I went to the store (out the back door) and by the time I got back, she was gone. She didn't leave a note or anything so I don't know what was going on. You'd think if she sat that long outside, she'd try to let me know she'd been there. Hmm, just bizarre. Now, I feel guilty for not talking to her but I still don't want any drama right now. For the first time since I walked away from Xianity, I'm faced with confronting someone who's close to me and a Christian. I haven't told my family for fear I'd lose even more family members over religion. I've already lost my father to the Watchtower people. My grandmother wouldn't do that but she'd be disappointed in me. My mother OTOH, has an 8 year-old and 17 year old living with her and might make me stay away thinking I'm a "bad influence" on them, one of the reasons my father didn't want me in his household.

 

I guess my friend's visit finally brought all of this home to me. Hell, why can't people just love each other without the religious crap getting in the way?

[Asimov]

I guess my friend's visit finally brought all of this home to me. Hell, why can't people just love each other without the religious crap getting in the way?

 

The shit will hit the fan if they are fundys....period. And they generally will not be your friend anymore because of it.

 

At least this is from what I've seen and heard on this forum. I don't have any friends that are fundies and that's because I'm intolerant of stupid beliefs.

[monsterfeets]

I told my Christian friends (and I would consider them fundies, yet at the same time they're very salad bar picky choosy), and besides one them, none of them even cared. But ofcourse they all still believe I'm going to hell. Apparently it's not that big of a deal or they can't be bothered to think about it or something. The one who did care does not have a single logic bone in his body so it's pretty impossible to be around him. Even though we've been friends for years, he just ends up getting me into debates which frustrate me to no end.

 

I wish people could just love each other without the religious crap being an issue, too. But even when it's not an issue on the surface, it's still there. Because they've created this divide. An "us" and "them" mentality. They (most) believe we're going to hell and that we deserve it. That kind of cheapens the whole friendship thing.

 

My Mom is Christian but she's pretty open minded so she doesn't think badly of me. Or that anything bad will happen because of my deconversion. Everyone else in my family is just more or less agnostic, except my Grandmother who's currently on some other planet, so she wouldn't know the difference anyway.

 

That girl kind of sounds creepy. She might just be worried. But I had a "friend" once, for years, who would do that sort of thing. Call me, sit outside waiting for me ... we had a falling out over a huge issue and she began to stalk me and threaten me. It was really scary, I really hope she's just the overly concerned type.

 

good luck

[godlessgrrl]

I suppose how hard and fast the shit hits the fan depends on what the fundy in question is like.

 

Avoidant fundies, like the ones in my family, don't seem to be a problem (or at least they haven't been with me).

 

Controlling fundies, like the one you posted about, well.... better get a full biohazard suit, face shield, minute-particle respirator, and about 30 gallons of Lysol.

 

I think it has more to do with the controlling personality type than with the fundyism, though the two often go hand-in-hand. Controlling types just aren't going to let anything go; that's just the way they are, and there ain't much to do about it. Best tactic is to just be honest and in-their-face about it, I suppose. Do what you want no matter what they want.

 

Btw, the creepy shit your porch-sitting fundy friend did - up here they call it "stalking", and there are laws against it.

 

Good luck in whatever you choose to do tho.

 

(And I don't know how come people can't just get over religious differences, either.)

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

I say let the shit hit the fan. If a little excrement has to be flung around in order for someone to get the picture then turn the oscillating fan up to 3 and toss in the feces. Better yet, just turn on the fan, the xtians will provide the dung.

 

I guess my friend's visit finally brought all of this home to me. Hell, why can't people just love each other without the religious crap getting in the way?

 

The shit will hit the fan if they are fundys....period. And they generally will not be your friend anymore because of it.

 

At least this is from what I've seen and heard on this forum. I don't have any friends that are fundies and that's because I'm intolerant of stupid beliefs.

 

Amen to that.

[jrmarlin]

Now, I feel guilty for not talking to her but I still don't want any drama right now.

First of all, nirrti, your religious "guilt" is cropping up again. Don't let it get the stronghold on you as it will make you toss and turn! And for what? No reason at all. I, too, am not a big phone person and I loathe people showing up unannounced as I perceive it as rude and inconsiderate. I am often busy with things that require my concentration and when people just show up, it pisses me off profusely. Therefore, it is not abnormal for you to be miffed about her intrusion - even if you didn't answer the door.

 

As for her being obsessed. Well, if she is that beligerant with people as she sounds, then she probably does not have a lot of true friends. What you feel is probably felt by many of her associations and perhaps, her waiting around is something she does now becaue others have done the very same thing as you did by avoiding her or pretending to not be at home. If you don't like the intrusion and her "waiting" for all that time, perhaps a good thing for you to do is to be forthright and tell her straight up, you don't share beliefs anymore and do not wish to continue the association. Honesty is the best policy and when you are forthright that leaves nothing to chance, guess or misinterpretation.

 

Nothing steams anyone more than to have someone talk to them constantly and then all of the sudden they clam up and avoid them. With that being said, if you tell her where your beliefs are at at this time, and if she can't accept them and embrace you 'as is' then you guys have nothing further to talk about. It is what it is. You're grown in a different direction and there's no reason why you should feel guilty about waking up. There is not one good reason why you should be a prisoner in your own home either (ie having to sneak out to go to the store.) And there is NO reason for you to feel guilty when someone has intruded on you in any way shape or form.

 

Please, don't let your previous religious 'guilt' continue to hang around your neck like an abatrose. Its simply not worth it -- and you are worth more than.

[Thurisaz]

While I only once had a real-life run in with fundies (and they never were my friends before), as much as I got to learn from other people's tales, there are exactly two phases which will appear, and you can't do much about or against it.

 

1. They still think they can deceive you back into the cult. As long as they believe that, they won't "get" or better accept the fact that you left. Just like you say "Uh huh. Yeah sure. Whatever you say" to a raving loonie while you slowly retreat out of range.

 

2. They have given up the hope to collect some extra slmie points from the heavenly sadist by recapturing you. From then on, the holy hatred™ will set in.

 

I understand that you want to avoid conflict (if nothing else, conflict is demanding - it uses up strength and resources you could use elsewhere), but bottom line of my posting is, if they are True Christians™ the detonation will come. No matter what you try. The best you can do is delay the exact moment of BOOM a bit.

[AndreasBolle]

If they are a real friend, fundy or not, religion would be a non-issue.

[Thurisaz]

Indeed brother.

 

The question, of course, is: Can a fundy be anyone's real "friend"?

[AndreasBolle]

Indeed brother.

 

The question, of course, is: Can a fundy be anyone's real "friend"?

 

Therein lies, yet, another mystery of the fundy mindset.

[white_raven23]

Nirrti,

 

Pick a public place. A coffee shop would be ideal. Talk to this woman. Get everything hashed out. Get ON with it. But give her a chance to talk at the same time.

 

Better yet, make HER talk FIRST. This woman has been trying to get in contact with your for a year. The avoidance method is NOT meant to be used that long. If avoidance doesn't work within 3 months, more direct action is required.

 

Find out specifically what this woman WANTS. But remember, she has to lay her cards on the table FIRST. If you do it first, she probably won't lay down her cards at all....instead seeing cause to avoid her own issues (and anyone who is still bugging you after a year....they have them), she will concentrate on "fixing" you instead.

 

Once everything is all out.....you will know weather or not it is worthwhile to continue the association. But give it the once chance, as it may be her faith has had reason to crumble, and she may be starting down your road. You can help with that.

 

But if indeed she is intent on being a controlling fundie.....remember you have NOW given her the one chance, and you can ignore her entirely without GUILT.

 

Frankly it's messed up to feel guilty over a stalker. Yeah....stalker. If this were a guy whome you had already clearly rejected.....would you feel guilty about hiding in your own home? Fuck no! You'd be rightfully pissed!

 

That's why you need this one meeting. Get everything clear and in the open. This way if she is controlling and persues you....your emotions won't be warring between pissed and guilt. You will be properly PISSED and you will handle the issue accordingly. She will not longer have a "right" to beseige you in your castle.......you will feel more justified in having her removed.

 

I shake my finger at you a little for letting this go on so long. Again...what if it was a guy? Would you be tip-toeing around your own home a year after you'd made your disinterest clear?

 

Have the one meeting. Get it over with. Her behavior after that will seem clearer. At this point I simply say....stalker! But there could be more going on. Find out and get it over with.

[lothartx]

Indeed brother.

 

The question, of course, is: Can a fundy be anyone's real "friend"?

 

Therein lies, yet, another mystery of the fundy mindset.

 

Ditto what these guys and jrmarlin said. I'm learning that honesty is best. It may be painful in the short term, but the long benefits are what counts.

 

It's not your responsibility to make your friend happy. Gently let your friend in on how you feel. Friendship has to run both ways and should be based on more than religous beliefs.

 

One reason I don't trust xtians. I don't know if they want get to know me for who I am or to manipulate me.

 

Good luck and be careful.

[qadeshet]

When I left Christianity I left the church and my old Christian friends behind. It's simply not worth listening to their constant attempts to "save" you. Besides which, I no longer had much in common with them. I would rather hang around with intelligent people.

[Ex-COG]

When I left Christianity I left the church and my old Christian friends behind. It's simply not worth listening to their constant attempts to "save" you. Besides which, I no longer had much in common with them. I would rather hang around with intelligent people.

Kind of the same thing happened to me. Once I left the church I had very little contact with those who I had considered friends, and besides, I now realize that our friendship was based on church functions and activities, not on having anything else in common. Even before I left, I used to ask myself "If I didn't attend church with these people, if I had met them elsewhere, would I still become friends and share any interests with them?" I was forced to see that the answer was no.

I did attempt to keep a couple friendships going. One lady I did call a few times and we got together, but I noticed she never called me to initiate doing something. I decided that I would wait and see if she would contact me, if she didn't, that would mean she had no interest in continuing a friendship. It's been about three years now, and I haven't heard from her.

Another friend I do still meet with, but she was never super religious, and we don't talk much about the church, so it's worked out. I've been very lucky not to have had the stalking experiences that Nirrti has.

[jrmarlin]

Once I left the church I had very little contact with those who I had considered friends, and besides, I now realize that our friendship was based on church functions and activities, not on having anything else in common. Even before I left, I used to ask myself "If I didn't attend church with these people, if I had met them elsewhere, would I still become friends and share any interests with them?" I was forced to see that the answer was no.

Funny. When my parents moved to another state, before the move they had tons of friends from their church. However, after they moved of all those friends they only talk to one couple still to this day. All the others evaborated into the ethers.

 

Apparently, you don't have to leave the church as a non-christian to be considered an outcast. My parents merely moved to another state -- and never hears from any of them anymore.

 

I wonder if "Thou shall not relocate..." is one of the commandments.

[Amethyst]

Today, she came over to my place unannounced. I've already told her I don't like her coming unless I okay it first a long time ago but she still does it. I know she's probably worried but a part of it, I'm sure, is about control. I was tempted but I just couldn't answer the door......I guess I'm too chicken. I was awakened from my sleep (I'm nocturnal) and didn't feel like coming to the door all crusty before washing up, either. I got to hand it to her for persistance. She sat outside the door for an hour and a half, probably assuming I was at work and I'd be home soon. I know...I know, but still, is it normal for anyone to sit outside someone's door like that, especially when it's not a romantic relationship? Is she obsessed with me or something?

 

No, that's not normal behavior for anyone, and definitely if it's not romantic. I would be really freaked out if anyone I knew did that. In fact, I'd seriously consider moving and not telling them where.

 

Watchtower? What's that? Yet another fundy cult movement?

[Checkmate]

..............

Watchtower? What's that? Yet another fundy cult movement?

It's the official magazine of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Mad Ethel Rakem]

I had, like, two Christian friends (I have this nasty habit of making very, very strange and pagan friends... they usually have a very open mind). One I lost contact with, except when I got the invitation to her wedding/baby shower (we were both 19 at the time (wince)). The other was a pastor's daughter. She also had a very open mind, even though she stuck to her beliefs. I consider her a great example of a good Christian.

 

Anyway... on to my original intent: I agree that it would be best to let the thing explode. It'll happen sooner or later, and the more you stall, the more you try to keep it away or smother it, the worse it's going to be when it happens. So, if you want to make her feel better about it, do meet on neutral ground. If you're worried at all about causing a scene or whatever, meet in a park (unless you think she'll really tweak out and lunge at you with teeth bared and fingernails a'clawin'. In that case, you want to be somewhere you can beat a strategic retreat from).

 

Best of luck!