Poonis Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Since I have fought off the deadly grasp of ignorance that is Christianity, I have noticed the foundation of my "morality" (if that is what you will call it) of doing Good changed. I no longer adhere to the punishment/reward system (stemming from my upbringing of Heaven vs Hell) for doing good, but rather have moved into a knowledge-is-power/ignorance-is-death system for finding what is good. What other systems are there besides: (1) heaven/hell punishment/reward system (2) knowledge-is-its-own-reward/ignorance-is-its-own-punishment system (3) ....? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I've noticed my definition of "good" and "evil" change drastically in the time since I've left Xianity behind. No longer do I define these things by what the Catholic Church says, nor upon a system of reward and punishment maintained in my own mind. I used to always think "Gawd's watching me, oh shit" and act according to whatever sect's propaganda I was heeding at the time. Nowadays, I use reason and the facts of the world to guide me in all things, as best as I can. I try to approach the matter by asking myself if an action would infringe on a person's freedom or natural rights. Is it "nice" or not to say this or do that, and not based on dogmatic concepts, but natural and instinctive moral leanings. In truth, I've realized that while we're not perfect, we've got it in us to decipher what good and evil are, without feeling like we need dogmas from on high first. After all, all religious moral codes were written down by human hands and proceeded from human minds. There is no proof at all that any of it came from any god. In the end, we know we can thank our own race of beings for every known moral concept, so we have it on ourselves to determine good and evil - we just have to use the brains we were born with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Okay....mine is admittedly a bit foo-foo. But I don't care! My feelings about morality fall under a "harm none" category. The Golden Rule predates the bible anyway. Sort of a Karma thing. I believe my actions and feelings can have either a positive or a negative energy to them. Whatever I give out, I will get in return. That is the foo-foo part. How's this. Helping people, or doing good, particularly when they have not asked for help yet, makes me feel good. Anticipating the needs.....particularly of people I care about, makes me feel wonderful. I like giving gifts more than receiving them. When I do harm to someone, even in ignorance, I feel absolutely awful. I don't think so much in terms of morality anymore. Morality implies a sort of "good for all" greater social influence.....which, frankly creeps me out. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Quick shot: Immoral is whatever unnecessarily increases suffering, and moral the logical opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Abe Lincoln said it best: "When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad". That's my moral philosophy in life, in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Have to agree with All Gods Fail and add that my moral system of beliefs is not a system at all but a judgement made when the situation arises, each moral situation gets its own consideration using the information that is available at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I'm the same as you. Being good to others doesn't even need to be done as part of a group. My 8yo dd reminds me each week to make a small lunch to bring in the car for the homeless in our area. That is so sweet and precious! Makes sure she gets every smooch she deserves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmarlin Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Okay....mine is admittedly a bit foo-foo. But I don't care! My feelings about morality fall under a "harm none" category. The Golden Rule predates the bible anyway. Sort of a Karma thing. I believe my actions and feelings can have either a positive or a negative energy to them. Whatever I give out, I will get in return. That is the foo-foo part. How's this. Helping people, or doing good, particularly when they have not asked for help yet, makes me feel good. Anticipating the needs.....particularly of people I care about, makes me feel wonderful. I like giving gifts more than receiving them. When I do harm to someone, even in ignorance, I feel absolutely awful. I don't think so much in terms of morality anymore. Morality implies a sort of "good for all" greater social influence.....which, frankly creeps me out. A lot. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Norton II Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I myself am a big fan of Virtue Theory- start at Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I myself am a big fan of Virtue Theory- start at Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethic. I need something to read tonight. I think I'll go check this one out. Thanks, Emppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I live by the Ten Commandments of Solon. Ten Commandments of Solon (Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, 1.60) 1. Trust good character more than promises. 2. Do not speak falsely. 3. Do good things. 4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made. 5. Learn to obey before you command. 6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful. 7. Make reason your supreme commander. 8. Do not associate with people who do bad things. 9. Honor the gods. 10. Have regard for your parents. The Real Ten Commandments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 My morality is quite simple: - Whenever possible, try to increase happiness, relieve pain and reduce harm; - However, you are under no obligation to do anything for someone who has previously wronged you. Common moral laws such as "no stealing, no killing, no lying" are derivatives of the first point. And the second point does away with the concept of "forgive and forget" and other guilt-based garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Other than a general "don't be a dick" rule, I also tend to go with Lincoln's approach. I would like to note that I do consider myself amoral (to me the difference between morals and ethics have come down to morals being framed by some kind of religous framework) though I have my own code of ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philo Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Great topic. "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." Steven Weinberg - Nobel Laureate One of my reasons for becoming an atheist . . . Christianity teaches that the biblical God represents all that is morally and ethically good. It also teaches that a person needs to be rewarded and punished for their behavior. A system of rewards and punishments is the weakest type of system to encourage good behavior. The reason is that the motives of an individual (who does good for the sake of a reward) are motives that are destined to be suspect. Such a system often works for children up to about the age of eight or ten. Around this time children mature to a point in which they understand the inherent rewards of doing or being good. Mature adults are well aware of this dynamic: for whatever reasons, it just feels good to do good things for other people. I would question any religion that encourages people to be good when it offers its disciples a reward. The main reason for this is that this is a weak system of managing or encouraging good behavior. Essentially, I would not expect a god to resort to these kinds of tactics. If I am indeed created by a god who has placed within me the ability to understand the benefits of doing good without the sake of a reward, then it does not make sense that this same god would offer me incentives based on my performance. It’s unnecessary, and taints the whole process of doing right by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 In general I follow a loose combo platter of "minimize harm, maximize pleasure/benefit" and "the greatest good for the greatest number", mixed in with a bunch of "if it harms none, do what you will." I value free will, the individual, honesty, and civility in general. I also believe in personal responsibility, which is why I don't generally believe in blanket forgiveness of wrongs. (If someone's a jackass to me and isn't sorry, fuck 'em.) I also generally believe in serving people in kind - i.e., if someone's good to me, I'll be good to them, and if they're a dick to me, I'll be a dick to them. That sort of sums it up. Mostly. Mileage varies depending on the circumstances, how stressed out I am, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philo Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Good philosophy In general I follow a loose combo platter of "minimize harm, maximize pleasure/benefit" and "the greatest good for the greatest number", mixed in with a bunch of "if it harms none, do what you will." I hope I never piss you off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Good philosophy In general I follow a loose combo platter of "minimize harm, maximize pleasure/benefit" and "the greatest good for the greatest number", mixed in with a bunch of "if it harms none, do what you will." I hope I never piss you off Heh! Thanks. Honestly, it takes quite a bit to really piss me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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