Don't Ask A Scribe To Copy Homework

[Taphophilia]

Christianity, like Judaism and later Islam, has always been a bookish religion, meaning writings were an important part of faith. We know that most people, back in the day, were not able to read and write. The early Christians had the writings read to them by the few who could read, i.e. “He who has ears to hear let him hear.” We also know, that in those days, they didn’t have copy machines or moveable type, in order for a congregation to get their own copy, it had to be copied by hand.

 

Since most people were not able to do this, scripture was copied by the few people who could read and write. Which they did in their spare time. They were not professional scribes who had trained and studied most of their lives as copyists (even with the Pro’s some were better than others, just like Pro’s today.). The first copyists were simply literate and were asked or volunteered to do the job. Pro Scribes didn’t show up until the FOURTH century, because until Constantine converted and made Christianity the state religion (be a Christian or die) no one cared enough to devote their life to the writings of a small, insignificant sect.

 

If you have ever had to copy large volumes of writing by hand you will understand how mistakes and errors happen. Even the Pro Scribes, like us, were not the greatest spellers (Like us, some were better spellers than others. They didn’t even have spell check, heck they didn’t even have a dictionary.)

 

To make matters even worse, NT Greek is written with NO punctuation and NO spaces between the words, so it’s understandable that lots and lots of mistakes happened that changed the meaning of the texts. Pro Scribes, did make copy mistakes too, but not nearly as many because, well, they were Professionals. What Pro Scribes did do was to purposely change words to support their favorite doctrine. They would leave out sentences, or add ones where there were none.

 

How do we know mistakes were made and Pro Scribes changed texts? Of the copies that have survived, there are variations, many, many, many variations. So many, in fact, it’s not possible to count them all even with computers. Let me just say, that there are more variations between the existing texts, than there are words in the NT. Most are minor copy errors, but still many, too many, variations change the meaning of the text dramatically.

 

Since, we will for the sake of argument, agree that the Autographs (The originals) are the infallible, inspired, word of the Lord God Almighty, than all we need to do is look at them, see what they say, and understand how they’ve been changed. However, there is just one small problem in doing that. We don’t have them. We don’t even have copies of the originals. We don’t even have copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the originals. What we have are copies that are centuries away from the originals.

 

Bibliography

(I’m too lazy right now to do a bibliography, but if you really want one I’ll do it just to prove I didn’t make this stuff up and read it in books written by smart people who used really long words and had lots and lots of letters after their names.)

[♦ nivek ♦]

Taph,

 

In your *spare time* (half hour between 0230 and ohshit:its time to wake up AGAIN o'clock) could you please provide some notations.

 

This info would prove quite valuable to me and a discussion that is happening my part of 'net.

 

TIA, time spent appreciated.

 

kL

[Lycorth]

Bibliography or no, you've a great point, Taphie. The fact that dozens upon dozens of variations of the "infallible and inerrant" Holah Scripchahs prove one thing - they are simply made up. The god of the Jews, the Xians, and the Muslims is a moron for entrusting a message so supposedly "sacred" and "necessary" for human beings to a vehicle as prone to change as human language.

 

After all, their god is supposed to see all and know all, so he should've known this in advance. Surely a god who knows it all would've known an even better way of making sure his message would be easily understood by all humans for all time, right? Surely, such a wonder-worker like their god would know just how to deliver his message to humanity in a form that no human could ever doubt, unless they were truly dead-set against him, right? Hell, he could at least show up once in awhile and remind us what the message really is and how it's to be lived out, dontcha think?

 

Well, we get none of this. Either Biblegodzilla exists and is truly a sick-ass bastard for playing with our heads like this, or it's just his fan club that are the sick-asses and their god is just a product of their imaginations.

 

I lean towards the latter, meself

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

This info would prove quite valuable to me and a discussion that is happening my part of 'net.

Nivek (and everyone else),

 

I can highly recommend the book "Misquoting Jesus : The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" by Bart Ehrman. It is very readable and Ehrman does an incredible job of explaining just how impossible it is to know what the original books of the New Testament contained. He explains the various problems including amateur scribes who made honest mistakes and those scribes who changed the material on purpose to meet their religious purposes. All of this is supported with excellent examples.

 

The author is a well-know biblical scholar who began his career as a fundamentalist who believed the bible was the inerrant word of god. His years of study have convinced him that this can't be the case and he carefully shows the reader why he was forced to change his own beliefs.

 

This should help you Nivek in your discussion, and every christian and ex-christian on this site who has an interest in biblical errancy should take the time to hear what this man has to say.

 

[Taphophilia]

What I like to do when I write articles like this is make them easy and fun to read. If I had more time I'd write more.

 

Misquoting Jesus is where ther majority of my thread comes from because Ehrman is the easist scholar to read and he's the best biblical secular scholar for the armchair learner.

 

Earliest Gospels make it clear it's a fraud Internet infidels, a good example of scholarly understanding.

 

Christianity in Late Antiquity also by Ehrman

 

Other stuff, I read but I don't remember where, hence being lazy.

 

Taph

[Mythra]

I like Ehrman's analogy of how easy it is to misinterpret when there's no spaces and no punctuation:

 

 

GODISNOWHERE

 

 

Is it God Is Now Here, or God Is Nowhere?

[Fweethawt]

I like Ehrman's analogy of how easy it is to misinterpret when there's no spaces and no punctuation:

 

 

GODISNOWHERE

 

 

Is it God Is Now Here, or God Is Nowhere?

Oh boy.....

 

My own mother used that one on me as a way to somehow prove the existence of God. She wrote it down, showed it to me and asked me what it said. I replied, "It says, God is nowhere." She then looked at me and said, "Take another look. Doesn't it say, God is now here?"

 

Then she gave me this creepy look like an ooOOOooooO.oOooooooo, type of thing.

 

Something like this ---->

 

As if she just showed me irrefutable proof or something.

 

So I just grabbed another piece of paper and wrote the word 'EVANGELISTS' on it. I showed it to her and asked her what it said. She looked at it and said, "Evangelists". I said, "No. Look again. Doesn't it say, evils agents?" (I wrote 'evils agents' on the back of the paper beforehand)

 

For some reason, she didn't like my little word-scramble. After all, she goes to one of them charismatic pentecostal (sp?) churches where they have a guest evangelist come in a couple of times a month.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Thanks Taph, TfT, gotta'n order in with Amazon now, looks like I'll stretch the plastic a bit more for this load incoming..

 

kL