Guest Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I believe Mary has power over God and can even get him to change his mind. Jesus worked his first miracle at the wedding at Cana at the request of his mother. It was a miracle he did not want to work, but he did so reluctantly in obedience to his mother. There are also many miracles linked to the Virgin Mary. This one really influenced me. It was a vision witness by 70000 people, many of them Communists, Freemasons, and atheists, who reported they had the vision https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun I don't like God very much, but one reason I pray to God, is because I hope I can get him to repent and change his mind. Exodus 32:14 King James Version And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people Moses got God to repent of the evil he planned to do to Israel, and it saved the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 20, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: I believe Mary has power over God and can even get him to change his mind. god is therefore neither omnipotent not omniscient. Why bother believing in him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: This one really influenced me. It was a vision witness by 70000 people, many of them Communists, Freemasons, and atheists, who reported they had the vision https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun Don't forget to read the criticisms section: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun#Criticism We all live under the same sun. If such an event really happened, then it would've been witnessed by billions of people all over the half of the earth that the sun was shining on at the time. Yet it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 20, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: Cos I've come so far and don't attribute that transformation to myself. I have extremely poor judgement, and need a power greater than myself to give me wisdom, understanding, and the grace to make wise decisions. If you can imagine a power greater than yourself, then your imagination itself is greater than yourself. That doesn't mean you can't still pretend like the god of your imagination is real, so long as you realize it really is just your imagination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: It was a vision given to that crowd. Nothing happened to the Sun In other words, it didn't really happen. It was all in their heads. No surprise. Time to move on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 20, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2018 Hey Rose, still stalking women on the Internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 58 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: Cos I've come so far and don't attribute that transformation to myself. I have extremely poor judgement, and need a power greater than myself to give me wisdom, understanding, and the grace to make wise decisions. I'll second the poor judgement part. The Bible is a collection of fictional stories with fictional characters & historians have a mountain of evidence that proves that; but believers don't care about such things as facts, evidence, science or reality for that matter. Believers are content to live in their little make believe world living in constant fear they won't do enough to make it to heaven. Wisdom is usually achieved through education & experiencing life not by believing in supernatural non-sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 As far as supernatural nonsense goes, Catholic mythology is certainly creative and interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Rose0101 said: A crowd gathered for a promised sign, and the sign was given to them.... So, they expected to see something and then they saw something, but that something wasn't something that was real because nobody else in the entire world saw it. Do you fail to see the potential that it was psychosomatic? 4 hours ago, Rose0101 said: They were also told about the coming of World War II, the rise of Communism in Russia, and the spread of Russia's errors throughout the world... The article you linked doesn't appear to mention that stuff, but the October Revolution happened around the same time as the so-called Miracle of the Sun, so there were probably things brewing that would make it easy to speculate about where things could go. Making general predictions that come true really isn't all that impressive. What would be impressive would be if predictions were made with a lot of specific details that couldn't possibly play out exactly as predicted without it being a miraculous prophecy. I'd put my money on the notion that what really happened was not that impressive scenario. It's probably no more impressive than what psychics do all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Rose0101 said: It could be psychosomatic, but a lot of people who are communist (Portugal was communist at that time) and anti religious , had the same psychosomatic symptoms...it sounds very unlikely. Yes I agree, nothing actually happened to the Sun Perhaps the believers were so pumped that it somehow rubbed off on others. Another possibility is an optical illusion. For all I know, the claims of antireligious people also seeing it (or the entire thing altogether) could be greatly exaggerated or even totally fabricated. Regardless, none of us were there, so there's no way to know for sure. What we can be certain of is that they really did not see what they thought they saw. The sun didn't do anything crazy, because people all over that side of the world would have seen it if it did. By the way, it appears that you were replying while I was editing my prior post to address the rest of your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 20, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2018 When my dad worked in Haiti he done seen a Voodoo priest bring a dead guy back to life and my uncle seen a Bigfoot trying to break into his beer shed. Them there are real miracles! Top THAT, Mary!!! Yes, I'm treating this with all the respect it deserves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, florduh said: When my dad worked in Haiti he done seen a Voodoo priest bring a dead guy back to life and my uncle seen a Bigfoot trying to break into his beer shed. Them there are real miracles! Top THAT, Mary!!! Yes, I'm treating this with all the respect it deserves. Oh Yeah? Well, as i was reading this, my bowels sounded off like an harp for Moab! I'd say that easily tops YOUR story. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 6 hours ago, Rose0101 said: ... There are also many miracles linked to the Virgin Mary. This one really influenced me. It was a vision witness by 70000 people, many of them Communists, Freemasons, and atheists, who reported they had the vision https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun ... If you study the actual sources of this miracle claim, you will discover that the evidence is weak, contradictory and explainable without the need to invoke magical cause. Of course, you haven't done that. Various Catholics embellished the claim over the years to fool gullible folks like you. It worked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Ask me any question you want, and I will give you an honest answer, or if the question is too personal I will simply say, I'm not telling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 20, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: Ask me any question you want, and I will give you an honest answer, or if the question is too personal I will simply say, I'm not telling Do you still struggle with thoughts of wanting to be a serial killer? Do you own a cat or a dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 59 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: I'm a bit skeptical of it, but I've experienced personally that there is power in the Rosary. ... It appears you have not studied the actual primary sources of this miracle claim. You should do so. How do you distinguish between (i) delusions or hallucinations and (ii) reality? What relevance does the Catholic Rosary have to do with the Portugal claim? 59 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: ... I just think at Fatima those children would have been in a lot of trouble with that huge crowd if nothing happened. Portugal was a communist country at the time. Do you use this speculation of yours as a reason to believe the claim? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Personal experience can be very powerful to the individual experiencing it, but it doesn't amount to much in the way of evidence for other people and can very easily have been misinterpreted by the very person experiencing it. For example: 1 hour ago, Rose0101 said: I was extremely miserable and suicidal one day at college. I started praying the rosary and had an experience that brought me to a religious ecstasy that became the greatest joy I had ever experienced in my life. It was Ash Wednesday , so I went to mass that day, and the lady in front of me said she had a vision of a waterfall of Grace falling on top of me. I did nothing to tell or show this lady that I was having such a good day. I hadn't said a word to her that day before she said that. Here's my take on that. You specify that you hadn't said a word to her so far that day, which seems to imply that this is someone you had spoken with on prior occasions. The two of you were acquaintances, right? If so, then it would not have been difficult for her to have seen that you had been sad, and then on that day she could very easily have been able to see that you were much happier. The look on your face and how you carry yourself can say a lot. It doesn't take the least bit of divine intervention to pick up on things like that. I don't doubt that your personal experiences were very real and powerful to you. However, I do doubt that you've really looked at those experiences objectively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Margee said: Do you still struggle with thoughts of wanting to be a serial killer? Do you own a cat or a dog? I'll confess that on occasion I entertain a wicked fantasy of killing somebody, but no, I don't want to act out any such thing....there is much suffering in the world I want to ease the world's misery. I do get thoughts of harming people, and a lot of it is involuntary, I can't control it, I reject such thoughts, and I beg God and mother Mary for the grace to never act out them. I live with a cat but I'm nice to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, sdelsolray said: It appears you have not studied the actual primary sources of this miracle claim. You should do so. How do you distinguish between (i) delusions or hallucinations and (ii) reality? What relevance does the Catholic Rosary have to do with the Portugal claim? Do you use this speculation of yours as a reason to believe the claim? I at this time am not sure how to distinguish between delusion, hallucination, and reality. The rosary has to do with the Portugal claim because Mary introduced herself to the children as "our lady of the Rosary"....and asked for them to pray the rosary, especially for the conversion of Russia. Yes to the final question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: I at this time am not sure how to distinguish between delusion, hallucination, and reality. ... This explains much. Fortunately, you are aware, at least some of the time, that you cannot distinguish between delusion, hallucination, and reality. ... The rosary has to do with the Portugal claim because Mary introduced herself to the children as "our lady of the Rosary"....and asked for them to pray the rosary, especially for the conversion of Russia. ... I wanted to see how far you have been sucked into this Catholic fake news claim developed over the past 100 years. You're in deep. ... Yes to the final question I'm not surprised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: This explains much. Fortunately, you are aware, at least some of the time, that you cannot distinguish between delusion, hallucination, and reality. That is correct... that is why I am very skeptical of my visions and experiences.... what I do know is I used to need to be restrained and injected with antipsychotics... I haven't had to be in years.... used to be incapable of compassion, now am deeply compassionate and feel much heartache over the suffering of others...so prayer has helped and produced good results. What is delusion, hallucination, or a manic episode idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 36 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: ... What is delusion, hallucination, or a manic episode idk It is your responsibility to understand your mental health condition and to do what you can to heal it. Instead of spending time writing about spurious Catholic claims, you could spend the time learning about the condition you claimed to have and talk about how you can solve it: "Schizoaffective disorder is a chronic mental health condition characterized primarily by symptoms of schizophrenia, such as hallucinations or delusions, and symptoms of a mood disorder, such as mania and depression." Delusion, hallucination and manic action are part of your condition. How can you say "I don't know" about these things? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: It is your responsibility to understand your mental health condition and to do what you can to heal it. Instead of spending time writing about spurious Catholic claims, you could spend the time learning about the condition you claimed to have and talk about how you can solve it: "Schizoaffective disorder is a chronic mental health condition characterized primarily by symptoms of schizophrenia, such as hallucinations or delusions, and symptoms of a mood disorder, such as mania and depression." I see mental health professionals regularly... what I find is that different doctors give different diagnosis. My current psychotherapist told me on one of the days I was having a religious extacy, "you look like you've been touched by an angel". Not that that means anything, but he doesn't think my religious convictions are delusions and encourages me to pursue them. I find that prayer has helped me a lot more than medication and professionals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 21, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Rose0101 said: I believe Mary has power over God and can even get him to change his mind. Well done on disproving God in one line! Think through the implications of what you just said in regards to the characteristics of omniscience and all powerful that are often applied to God. I'll quote God: "I am God and I change not." If your opening line is true then something is amiss somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, Rose0101 said: I see mental health professionals regularly... what I find is that different doctors give different diagnosis. My current psychotherapist told me on one of the days I was having a religious extacy, "you look like you've been touched by an angel". Not that that means anything, but he doesn't think my religious convictions are delusions and encourages me to pursue them. I find that prayer has helped me a lot more than medication and professionals You avoided my post. You stated, "What is delusion, hallucination, or a manic episode idk." What are you doing to obtain knowledge about delusion, hallucination and manic episodes? Here's why that is so important: ... I find that prayer has helped me a lot more than medication and professionals How do you know whether this is a delusion or reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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