LosingMyReligion Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Since I've opened up to other people about my disbelief in the bible they all think I've been brainwashed and I should pray(or they will pray for my soul and stuff like that)... Has this happened to you and how have you dealt with it? It is so annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsus Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Yes, my mother made that accusation. I find it amusing that people who accept doctrinal points, which they usually have no idea about how those were arrived at, can accuse a person who lacks belief as being brainwashed is beyond me. As a former Christian, and serious one at that, I think it stems from the subconcious knowledge that their (Christian) beliefs are essentially brainwashing. The rejection of their beliefs by an atheist, brings into focus the irrational nature of those beliefs, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hey, you should be a psychologist! I think that was very insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 I agree. I find myself in debates all the time, and of course I've gotten the obligatory, "Lord have mercy on your soul..." and the bible scripture quotes. Just the other day my mom swore I was going to be struck down by a bolt of lightning at any second... I'm like, "Mom, baptist ministers have been hit by lightning too..." According to my family every natural disaster or war or murder is an act of god... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Has this happened to you and how have you dealt with it? Online I experienced it. In real life, there aren't that many fundies in Germany, and you aren't likely to meet one of them unless you actively seek them out. How did I deal with it? By giving the fundies all the mockery they deserve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabiscuit Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 As a professional, I'm an instructional designer. We instructional designers are always looking for ways to motivate "learners" (that's who we call the recepients of our work) to embrace ideas. We have a measurement tool of sorts to measure how learners emotionally feel about the ideas they are learning. (I'm nervous here because one of you could be a Instructional Designer and catch me oversimplifying this.) Anyways, this emotional measurement is called the Affective Domain. The lowest level is receiving. If you read this post, you've reached that level. If you respond by posting, you jump to the next level--responding. The next two levels are valuing and organization meaning you (the learner) find value in my ideas (or training) and file it away in your brain for safe keeping which leads to organization. For example, learning to apply the breaks on a car may be valuable to a learner, but knowing when to apply the breaks takes a level of organization. Now I have a point, stick with me! The last level of the Affective domain is characterization. So, a learner completes a non-smoking coures. The learner walks away and calls herself a Non-Smoker! "I'm a non-smoker!" So, when it comes to embracing ideas, the best you can do is to characterize yourself by the ideas you've learned. I'm an ex-christian! I can say this after months of reading, posting, finding value in ideas, filing them away and what do you know? I'm an exchristian. (A very proud one too!) So, I ask you, what is the difference between brainwashing and good training? The only thing I can offer is brainwashing seems to result in a loss of self. Perhaps good training reaching the highest levels of the affective domain results in a growing self. Oh boy, this is all subjective--I'm not sure its helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 "Brainwashing" Huh? Why not give this five point little list to your well meaning "friends"? From Here: http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/ THE PROCESS OF BRAINWASHING(MIND CONTROL) 1. The brainwasher keeps the victim unaware of what is going on and what changes are taking place. Your partner might control your finances, make plans for you, or not tell you what his plans are until the last minute. He may talk about you to others behind your back, to isolate you from them. 2. The brainwasher controls the victim's time and physical environment, and works to suppress much of the victim's old behavior. The victim is slowly, or abruptly, isolated from all supportive persons except the brainwasher. Your partner might have insisted that you stop certain social, hobby, or work activities. You might have gotten moved to a new location, farther away from your family and friends. Or you may have been asked (or told) to reduce or stop contact with specific supportive people in your life. 3. The brainwasher creates in the victim a sense of powerlessness, fear, and dependency. Verbal and emotional abuse creates these emotions, and they become stronger and stronger over time. 4. The brainwasher works to instill new behavior and attitudes in the victim. Your partner trains to you behave in ways that he wants you to behave. He gradually makes you feel differently about yourself, and erodes your confidence in yourself. 5. The brainwasher puts forth a closed system of logic, and allows no real input or criticism. In other words -- What he says, goes. Religion and those who participate in it are guilty of EVERY SINGLE ONE of these points.......yet your friends probably won't see it unless they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Those are some good tips, Raven. I'll have to try them on my wife. (kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 According to my family every natural disaster or war or murder is an act of god... Makes you wonder why they still worship him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Niiiice I just love the scenario......brainwashed people pointing at folks like us screaming: "You're brainwashed!". If I could draw worth a crap, I'd draw this scene. Complete with the accusers dragging great big crosses and wearing thorn crowns.....all shaky sweaty (maybe a drip of blood or two from those thorns) and pointing at perfectly regular folk not bent over and sweaty (not virtually crippled by their belief system). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I expect to be accused of such sooner or later, but it hasn't happened yet. I have been accused of worshipping Satan, though, for my disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 "You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say we are the ones that need help?"--Mark Twain Next time anyone accuses YOU of being deluded, just have them recite ALOUD what they believe and tell them to listen to themselves. Ask them why they believe THEIR fairy tale stories, while rejecting other religious fairy tales. Then ask them who in this scenario is more likely to be brainwashed/deluded: You or them? If they answer, "You", then take out a gun and shoot them. Do it outside so as not to get blood on the carpet. Don't grieve for them. They've been brain dead for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 "You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say we are the ones that need help?"--Mark Twain Grinch, where did you get that quote from? I've read quite a bit of Mark Twain's writings, and I don't recall ever seeing that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrmarlin Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Since I've opened up to other people about my disbelief in the bible they all think I've been brainwashed and I should pray(or they will pray for my soul and stuff like that)... Has this happened to you and how have you dealt with it? It is so annoying. LMR, I have had people say they will pray for me, too... I tell them, "No, I don't need your bloodsucking religion's negativity." And they can tell by my face, I mean it! I am in now way shape or form kidding with them. This fundie that i have been battling over the Xianity fallacy told me the other day he prays for me. And I looked at him, "You are the one that needs to pray for yourself because anyone who doesn't know about the "birth control" in China and the fact that 1% of the population of the world owns 90% of the world's wealth -- both commonly known facts -- surely needs to pray to the library God to make them not so dumb..." His look of confusion was priceless. My feeling of utter victoire was miraculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 "You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say we are the ones that need help?"--Mark Twain Grinch, where did you get that quote from? I've read quite a bit of Mark Twain's writings, and I don't recall ever seeing that one. http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2002/08/dear-believer.php Dave8's third commentary. If it isn't true, blame him. Twain or not, that's good shit. If Twain didn't say it, I'll take credit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Dave Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 As a professional, I'm an instructional designer. We instructional designers are always looking for ways to motivate "learners" (that's who we call the recepients of our work) to embrace ideas. We have a measurement tool of sorts to measure how learners emotionally feel about the ideas they are learning. (I'm nervous here because one of you could be a Instructional Designer and catch me oversimplifying this.) ... For example, learning to apply the breaks on a car may be valuable to a learner, but knowing when to apply the breaks takes a level of organization. I'm not an instructional designer, but I am going to call you out for misspelling "brakes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabiscuit Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I'm not an instructional designer, but I am going to call you out for misspelling "brakes". Thanks, Godless Dave. Always did have trouble with my spelling . Normally, I pull my posts from Word so that I can run spell check. As you can see, spell check wouldn't have helped me much here so thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 So, I ask you, what is the difference between brainwashing and good training? How about coercion? I'd be willing to bet that at no time in any training session your group gives do you tell your clients that if they reject your training in whole or in part, monsters from another dimension will come and eat their souls. Or their childrens' souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabiscuit Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 So, I ask you, what is the difference between brainwashing and good training? How about coercion? I'd be willing to bet that at no time in any training session your group gives do you tell your clients that if they reject your training in whole or in part, monsters from another dimension will come and eat their souls. Or their childrens' souls. Yep, I'll have to think about this. I've seen coercion used in the corporate world. Or fear. Fear of job loss etc. I wonder what makes people behave the way they do. If you asked me to hit a six month old baby, I'd say you were crazy--no way! But others would hit a small baby. Why? Do we really give over our sanity when we embrace ideas within christianity. I'm mixing ideas here. I was a child born into the system; others are adults moving into the system on their own. Probably a big difference. I will always wonder what motivates people to behave in ways they do. I still think that characterization is huge in christianty. You start out a baby xian and go from there. When someone accuses one of being brainwashed, its because from their perspective their right and your wrong. How can perspectives be so far and dangerously off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothartx Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Since I've opened up to other people about my disbelief in the bible they all think I've been brainwashed and I should pray(or they will pray for my soul and stuff like that)... Has this happened to you and how have you dealt with it? It is so annoying. I get statements and comments that allude to that I'm being brainwashed or some such nonesense. I've been asked "How does it feel to think your descended from monkeys" by "friends" at the wifes church. I usually resist a retort to the baiting comments because that typically inflates thier ego's. I just calmly explain the basics of evolution and ask how much they've studied evolution since it clearly states man is not descended from apes, just we share a common ancestor etc. If it keeps up, then I do get rather defensive. I call it as I see it. I tell them bible is mostly myths and distortion, is not historically accurate, not scientificly accurate and please show me where I'm wrong, if you care too. I've had several folks say they'll email me examples of where I've been wrong, but, not one email yet.... It's funny that the more I study and research the bible, the more overwhelmlingly convinced I am that is all just myths and B.S. I did exactly what the fundies asked me to do. Read the bible more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I get statements and comments that allude to that I'm being brainwashed or some such nonesense. I've been asked "How does it feel to think your descended from monkeys" by "friends" at the wifes church. To that, I'd say "Feels a lot better than thinking I was only dust." But you're wife might smack ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothartx Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I get statements and comments that allude to that I'm being brainwashed or some such nonesense. I've been asked "How does it feel to think your descended from monkeys" by "friends" at the wifes church. To that, I'd say "Feels a lot better than thinking I was only dust." But you're wife might smack ya! Yep... you got a point... Right on the back of the ol' noggin... Sunday's have gotten more interesting since they have taken a "personal" interest in me. The last guy I told "The bible is crap.." looked like he wanted to punch me. Instead he grunted "Well, I'll continue to pray for you...". He's actually a good guy, just deluded like the rest of them. I have noticed I've been a lot less polite and diplomatic lately. I've found being nice leads to false assumptions. The always think I'm "coming around"... or "jebus is working on him".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 One of my teachers went on a huge rant a few weeks ago about how the evil "seculars" (non-Christians) try to brainwash Christians into thinking Christianity is a form of brainwashing. He then said that Christians should answer the "seculars" by telling them they know Christianity is true because they've been taught it their whole life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 not me personally, but I was accused of brainwashing my sister, by my parents, since she is also apostate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 One of my teachers went on a huge rant a few weeks ago about how the evil "seculars" (non-Christians) try to brainwash Christians into thinking Christianity is a form of brainwashing. He then said that Christians should answer the "seculars" by telling them they know Christianity is true because they've been taught it their whole life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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