Over and over and over and over and over...

[mwc]

2 minutes ago, end3 said:

My point was that the passengers are not the stewards, that are not the pilots, that are not the mechanics, that are not the design engineers....

     The problem with this analogy is the passenger is on a plane that is destined to fail.  I wouldn't get on that plane if I had a choice.  None of the crew is doing a thing to avoid the disaster but flying right towards it full throttle even though the crew is, well, all powerful in this case.  And when the disaster strikes they're saying that if you don't follow the instructions, prior to the disaster, then they won't assist you.  None of these are reality.

 

     Crews try to avoid disaster.  In times of crisis they will try help even the most belligerent or ignorant people.  This includes the ones that failed to make any effort to look at the pre-flight instructions.  This certainly includes the children (sadly not the animals in most cases...poor track record there).  They don't make the assumption that you didn't pay attention or put forth any effort so you must obviously want to die.  If you are in your seat and they couldn't get you out without putting themselves in danger this makes sense but otherwise they should try to clear the aircraft.  A god can't be endangered so this caveat is of no concern.

 

          mwc

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

38 minutes ago, end3 said:

My point was that the passengers are not the stewards, that are not the pilots, that are not the mechanics, that are not the design engineers....

jesus is clearly none of these either.

[Guest end3]

30 minutes ago, mwc said:

     The problem with this analogy is the passenger is on a plane that is destined to fail.  I wouldn't get on that plane if I had a choice.  None of the crew is doing a thing to avoid the disaster but flying right towards it full throttle even though the crew is, well, all powerful in this case.  And when the disaster strikes they're saying that if you don't follow the instructions, prior to the disaster, then they won't assist you.  None of these are reality.

 

     Crews try to avoid disaster.  In times of crisis they will try help even the most belligerent or ignorant people.  This includes the ones that failed to make any effort to look at the pre-flight instructions.  This certainly includes the children (sadly not the animals in most cases...poor track record there).  They don't make the assumption that you didn't pay attention or put forth any effort so you must obviously want to die.  If you are in your seat and they couldn't get you out without putting themselves in danger this makes sense but otherwise they should try to clear the aircraft.  A god can't be endangered so this caveat is of no concern.

 

          mwc

 

No, without experience you have no clue whether it’s destined to fail.

[mwc]

42 minutes ago, end3 said:

No, without experience you have no clue whether it’s destined to fail.

     We're definitely not on the same page with this airplane analogy.

 

     The premise of xianity is we're on a fallen earth.  It's broken.  No matter what anyone does it will, at some point, fail.  That's the whole point of the end times and all the stuff in the Revelation.  It's a plane that will crash with anyone and everyone who is on-board.  No amount of effort from the passengers can alter this fact.

 

     There is no experience needed to know this.  It is a given in this case.  That's the analogy.

 

          mwc

 

[mwc]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

jesus is clearly none of these either.

     Jesus is my co-pilot.

 

          mwc

 

[Stargazer95]

14 hours ago, end3 said:

If it's the definition, then it's the definition.  Astreja's house, Astreja's rules, no?  God's creation, God's rules.  He even gives us the answer to the test.....choose Love.  And by faith no less.

 

God's rules: choose me or burn forever. Those are some pretty fucked up rules. But hey, it's all okay, because God's God and we don't have the right to question him, right? I call BS. God is a tyrant. A cosmic dictator. We would judge anyone else who acted like this. Why not God? 

 

Also, he hasn't given us any answer. Assuming that Christianity is true, the only thing he's given us is a (problematic) ancient book in a sea of ancient books and religions all claiming to have the truth. This particular one doesn't stand out in any way. Which book/answer/love you subscribe to largely depends on where you're born and how you're raised. 

[mwc]

21 hours ago, end3 said:

Jesus is a subscription to love.  Choosing Christ and Love is somehow bad?

     I thought jesus was a gift?

 

     "For god so loved the world that he gave his only only son that whosoever subscribeth to him, for a low monthly fee (terms and conditions subject to change without notice), shall not perish but have everlasting life as long as they remain a subscriber in good standing."

 

     Aw, shit.  I guess I never really took a close look at that verse.

 

          mwc

 

[Guest end3]

37 minutes ago, mwc said:

     We're definitely not on the same page with this airplane analogy.

 

     The premise of xianity is we're on a fallen earth.  It's broken.  No matter what anyone does it will, at some point, fail.  That's the whole point of the end times and all the stuff in the Revelation.  It's a plane that will crash with anyone and everyone who is on-board.  No amount of effort from the passengers can alter this fact.

 

     There is no experience needed to know this.  It is a given in this case.  That's the analogy.

 

          mwc

 

You were making the assumption that the aircraft would fail.  The only way you would know this is through experience.  We have no reason to assume our "flight" will fail.  God the airplane engineer would, but not the passengers.  All I hear from all of you is a passenger's standpoint.  "I'd rather walk than choose flying on Hell Airlines"....yet you still subscribe to jet engines with wings....

 

 

[mwc]

35 minutes ago, end3 said:

You were making the assumption that the aircraft would fail.  The only way you would know this is through experience.  We have no reason to assume our "flight" will fail.  God the airplane engineer would, but not the passengers.  All I hear from all of you is a passenger's standpoint.  "I'd rather walk than choose flying on Hell Airlines"....yet you still subscribe to jet engines with wings....

 

 

     Show me where the world doesn't end and there is no judgment.  Where some people make are chosen and others are not.  Where some survive and some are destroyed.

 

     You're telling me that there is an engineer who knows the plane is going to fail and still allowed passengers to board and the plane to takeoff.  That's a massive issue.  You're also telling me that this engineer learned this through experience.  How could that be?  We're supposed to be the only creation.  We're gods only experience with this.  His only go around same as us.

 

     You've misunderstood the analogy but made it worse by saying that there is someone who understands there is a flaw, a clear and present danger, to those on-board this aircraft and doesn't act.  The little pamphlet on the plane nor any other on-board precautions are of little use here.

 

     And there's no letting god off the hook as saying that he could identify an aircraft that could possibly, perhaps, fail if that aircraft was indeed going to crash but there is no guaranty that this particular aircraft will crash.  Only god can know that.  The bible lets us know that this plane is going down.  That's the point of the analogy.  Unless you can locate that information that says otherwise like I asked for (I know it doesn't exist since the Revelation does exist as well as jesus separating the sheep/goats or wheat/chaff  or any of that jazz).

 

          mwc

 

[Guest end3]

14 minutes ago, mwc said:

     Show me where the world doesn't end and there is no judgment.  Where some people make are chosen and others are not.  Where some survive and some are destroyed.

 

     You're telling me that there is an engineer who knows the plane is going to fail and still allowed passengers to board and the plane to takeoff.  That's a massive issue.  You're also telling me that this engineer learned this through experience.  How could that be?  We're supposed to be the only creation.  We're gods only experience with this.  His only go around same as us.

 

     You've misunderstood the analogy but made it worse by saying that there is someone who understands there is a flaw, a clear and present danger, to those on-board this aircraft and doesn't act.  The little pamphlet on the plane nor any other on-board precautions are of little use here.

 

     And there's no letting god off the hook as saying that he could identify an aircraft that could possibly, perhaps, fail if that aircraft was indeed going to crash but there is no guaranty that this particular aircraft will crash.  Only god can know that.  The bible lets us know that this plane is going down.  That's the point of the analogy.  Unless you can locate that information that says otherwise like I asked for (I know it doesn't exist since the Revelation does exist as well as jesus separating the sheep/goats or wheat/chaff  or any of that jazz).

 

          mwc

 

  I think you are diametrically misreading me....  The only way you can assume God's plan is going to fail is through your own experience.  You all keep saying, we, the passengers, know that the plane is doomed, when in fact YOU are NOT the "engineers".  How please can you come to that conclusion?  It's that simple.  As I said, the passengers are not the airplane designers......similarly, we are not God......yet, YET, everyone here has their mind made up that disconnecting yourself from the definition and practice/connection to/of Love won't land you in the death pile, the dead sticks on the ground, the pile set for burning in the fireplace/barbque pit.  And then have the gumption to say that the process is flawed. 

[mwc]

23 minutes ago, end3 said:

  I think you are diametrically misreading me....  The only way you can assume God's plan is going to fail is through your own experience.  You all keep saying, we, the passengers, know that the plane is doomed, when in fact YOU are NOT the "engineers".  How please can you come to that conclusion?  It's that simple.  As I said, the passengers are not the airplane designers......similarly, we are not God......yet, YET, everyone here has their mind made up that disconnecting yourself from the definition and practice/connection to/of Love won't land you in the death pile, the dead sticks on the ground, the pile set for burning in the fireplace/barbque pit.  And then have the gumption to say that the process is flawed. 

     I'm going to admit that I don't understand you.  I thought that I've said rather clearly that god's plan will succeed absolutely.  Soup to nuts.  Start to finish.  Beginning to end.  A to Z.  I don't know how else to put it.

 

     That's the rub.  The have you not read the supposed plan?  It assumes that some folks don't want to be saved.  It says that some people just aren't going to make it for one reason or another.  No matter what.  You don't have to be an engineer to know any of this.

 

     I'm not sure why you're now pushing "love" so hard?  Did you finally get around to 1 Corinthians 13:1-13?  Everyone was required to memorize that in my school at some point.  We all learned about the different types of love in Greek (agape is the good one).  All sorts of love talk.  Can't love your way out of a catastrophe.

 

          mwc

 

[Astreja]

9 hours ago, end3 said:

So you don't love at all is what you're saying...your brain incapable.  Gotcha.

 

End, that's the same fucking lie that my ex said to me three days before I left him, never to return.

 

It is precisely because I *do* love, and love with great intensity, that I reject Christianity.

 

And now I have no choice but to reject you as well.  I'm done talking to you, and if Dave & Kev & co finally kick your ass to the curb I will be the first one to burst out laughing.  *plonk*

[Guest end3]

39 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

End, that's the same fucking lie that my ex said to me three days before I left him, never to return.

 

It is precisely because I *do* love, and love with great intensity, that I reject Christianity.

 

And now I have no choice but to reject you as well.  I'm done talking to you, and if Dave & Kev & co finally kick your ass to the curb I will be the first one to burst out laughing.  *plonk*

A room full of special people... how exciting...

 

One vote exclude....wait, that's two votes....I forgot the other special lady that came in here and crapped all over the residents because she was so special.  But in her case, it was ok because he's the evil Christian.  Individual lives are special, but we are so special, we are not under any moral obligation to see that you are special.  We are that fucking special.  Special special special Marsha.  Let me offer this up......I'll leave by myself. 

[quinntar]

On 9/22/2018 at 11:24 AM, end3 said:

Key word, subscription.  John 15 makes a pretty good argument.....i.e. subscribe to love and you will produce fruit.  Don't subscribe and your part of the vine will wither and die.  So I don't really see it the same way you do.  I see hell more as a result of not choosing to love.  And it appears life pretty much follows that. 

 

Also, per the story, if God created you, and gave you life, then on your death, given you chose your own subscription, then it's what happens. 

 

Also per the Bible.  God=Love.  Choose Love means you choose God.  God and Jesus are One. 

 

So then you claim you just can't believe.  Faith requires faith, not belief.  We can all go through times of non-belief, but we can still remain faithful.

 

That enough for  you sir?

Why love exactly?

[quinntar]

16 hours ago, mwc said:

     Jesus is my co-pilot.

 

          mwc

 

 

[Castiel233]

On 9/21/2018 at 8:03 PM, end3 said:

Jesus is a subscription to love.  Choosing Christ and Love is somehow bad?

The Bible states that the whole duty of man is to fear God and obey His rules. It further states we are to hate ourselves, our families and abandon them.

 

That is not my definition of love, at all.

 

It's sick.

[L.B.]

17 hours ago, end3 said:

Let me offer this up......I'll leave by myself. 

 

Please fucking do, and take your thread-hijacking airplane-analogy bullshit with you.

 

The bible makes clear that god is going to judge people based on sin, which is something that the bible says MANKIND IS INCAPABLE OF AVOIDING.

 

See? God "cursed" Adam and Eve with death as a result of sin - and let thousands of generations of people be born in a damned condition, inescapably, unless they beg this god to be "cured" of a condition they were born with and COULD NOT AVOID.

 

Your grandparents smoked crack, and subsequent generations of children have been born deformed, but if they go to your GREAT-grandfather and beg his forgiveness, they can somehow magically be restored to full health and normalcy as if nothing had ever happened.

The only OTHER problem with that idea is that it only deals with some nonsense "spiritual" condition. Your Christards still die in floods, in fires, from wasting diseases, from starvation, from the corrupt cops who act as paramilitary units for the oligarchy in our country... why can't Magical Great-Grandpa just "zap" all the ACTUAL problems away, too? Nooo... that would be too easy. We have to have "faith" and struggle through all the SAME shit that believers in hundreds of other religions go through, and things that non-believers go through... wow - it almost seems like the circumstances we face, and our chances of facing them and surviving them, are - wait for it - RANDOM AND ARBITRARY, and not the whims of an omniscient being.

 

This shit is fucking retarded, and so are all the attempts to re-frame this shit so that you can try and cover all your bases.

It's a fitted sheet for a mattress that's WAY too big for the sheet. Give up already, at least here.

[quinntar]

People like end3 actually know that what they believe is a down right lie, but they must accept on some level the option for "Plausible denial" They must keep denying the fact's to protect their image (That's all it is)