integral Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I was just skimming through a book and came across a very interesting quote...I'm gonna have to give the book a thorough reading. The book is available online at this link: The Wisdom of the Infinite by David Quinn "For the average atheist/agnostic, it is enough to reject the irrationality of supernatural religion. That is all that really matters to him. It is the extent of his drive towards truth. As long as he can contrast himself with the religious lunatics he sees around him and pretend that he is a rational human being, he is content. To push reason any further than this would be, for him, a sign of madness. Thus, he shrinks away from the realm of higher reasoning in the same way that a fundamentalist Christian shrinks away from the theories of science." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Um, excuse me? We aren't "pretending" to be rational human beings. *Sigh* Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a god? If not, then it's more rational to say "I don't know whether god exists" than to believe blindly in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 "For the average atheist/agnostic, it is enough to reject the irrationality of supernatural religion. That is all that really matters to him. It is the extent of his drive towards truth. As long as he can contrast himself with the religious lunatics he sees around him and pretend that he is a rational human being, he is content. To push reason any further than this would be, for him, a sign of madness. Thus, he shrinks away from the realm of higher reasoning in the same way that a fundamentalist Christian shrinks away from the theories of science." If you post something like this in an open forum, not everyone is going to agree with it. Unless you say otherwise, most people are probably going to assume these are your opinions. We cannot read your mind on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integral Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 ^^^Amethyst, I have yet to read this book, so for now I don't really have any comment on the author's quote, besides that it makes me interested to read his book. I'd have to read the book and examine the author's arguments before I form an opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 If you don't have an opinion on it, then why are you posting in rants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 True, Zoe, some atheists can be just as fundy as Christians when it comes to not accepting new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 True, Zoe, some atheists can be just as fundy as Christians when it comes to not accepting new ideas. Indeed; not all Atheists are fundy dicks, but some can certainly be. And few really have any rational basis for rejecting half of what they do; they just have some good reasons for how they feel. Anyone can come up with good reasons for their beliefs, but what some simply do not understand is that even though we represtent the highest development of human life on earth we by no means have all the knowledge of the truths of the universe. To take the fundy route and dismiss everything that is not of one's own worldview represents nothing more than human stupidity and closed-mindedness, and an Atheist being unbending and stubborn is no better than a fundy Xian who is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 That quote that you posted above almost sounds like something written by Kevin Solway, in his book titled, Poison For the Heart. The enquiring mind A: You must cultivate the enquiring mind, much as a farmer cultivates his crop if he wants a rich harvest. Everything must be doubted, everything investigated. Q: Everyone enquires! Scientists never stop enquiring. I think we enquire too much. A: Scientists and scholars enquire into everything except their own nature: they are cowards. To learn about oneself is easy, but to learn who and what one is, is fraught with difficulty and pain. They have no love of reason, in spite of their stupendously high salaries. Q: Why is it that one person has faith in reason while another does not? A: By that very fact! One who is reasonable will have faith in reason because it is reasonable to do so. Those who lack reason will not believe in it. Q: Then how does one become reasonable initially? A: A reasoning mind grows out of early life. A good education can bring about the desired effect; if it doesn't, then it isn't a good education. Children must be encouraged to depend on reason above all else. Q: Can reason become a crutch? A: With such a crutch one soon becomes healed. Here's another good clip from the book. Reason and the Christian Try to reason with a Christian, and they will look at you as though you are from another planet. Their eyes say "Who does this person think I am? Could he think I am interested in truth? He is mad! - totally out of touch with reality!" They will tell you, scornfully, "thinking doesn't fill your stomach." Perhaps so, but it does ensure you are a creature worthy of having a stomach. Christians say that Truth can be known without having to resort to reason. They believe that God in his infinite compassion would not want us to experience the suffering of thought. They regard their reasoning mind as a curse of the Devil. A respected Christian poet was once asked what it was he had faith in. He answered: "I think I have faith in reason." He only thinks he has faith in reason! This just about sums it up doesn't it? We people hardly deserve the brains we have been given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 "For the average atheist/agnostic, it is enough to reject the irrationality of supernatural religion. That is all that really matters to him. It is the extent of his drive towards truth. As long as he can contrast himself with the religious lunatics he sees around him and pretend that he is a rational human being, he is content. To push reason any further than this would be, for him, a sign of madness. Thus, he shrinks away from the realm of higher reasoning in the same way that a fundamentalist Christian shrinks away from the theories of science." How is it higher reasoning to make an assertion without being able to back it up in any form whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 How is it higher reasoning to make an assertion without being able to back it up in any form whatsoever? Shut up fundy atheist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 How is it higher reasoning to make an assertion without being able to back it up in any form whatsoever?Shut up fundy atheist! Huh-oh! I think this thread is about to get stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 How is it higher reasoning to make an assertion without being able to back it up in any form whatsoever?Shut up fundy atheist! Huh-oh! I think this thread is about to get stupid! Nah, he should know that my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I wrote that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 "For the average atheist/agnostic, it is enough to reject the irrationality of supernatural religion. That is all that really matters to him. It is the extent of his drive towards truth. As long as he can contrast himself with the religious lunatics he sees around him and pretend that he is a rational human being, he is content. To push reason any further than this would be, for him, a sign of madness. Thus, he shrinks away from the realm of higher reasoning in the same way that a fundamentalist Christian shrinks away from the theories of science." How is it higher reasoning to make an assertion without being able to back it up in any form whatsoever? It isn't refering to making assertions without backup that he is talking about here. Instead, it is a commentary on positive atheiests (There is no god, rather than there is a high probability that there is no god), and a commonly viewed pattern of thinking. Many atheists, particularly militant, and one may even call them fundie refuse to even consider the possibility of what would be commonly called a supernature, despite a lack of hard evidence for or against such things. It is foreclosing on this possibility without consideration that is a mark of low reasoning: not even considering the possibility in the first place. I would suggest avoiding straw men in the future, Asimov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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