SerenelyBlue Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 When I don't give to charity as much as when I was a Christian, or when I commit minor sins, I always (in the back of my mind) have an irrational fear of divine retribution. But this is only an irrational fear. Right or wrong? What is your your take on Karma biting you in the ass? I refer to karma informally. As in bad deeds having bad consequences other than obvious consequences. Spiritual bad karma. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 There is not any force or being or beings that administer punishment on the human race. However, if you treat people like shit or cheat them or abuse them, you likely will encounter either revenge or indifference from those you have wronged and from those who observed said wronging. This has more to do with survival than anything else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, MOHO said: There is not any force or being or beings that administer punishment on the human race. However, if you treat people like shit or cheat them or abuse them, you likely will encounter either revenge or indifference from those you have wronged and from those who observed said wronging. This has more to do with survival than anything else. Agree wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 7 hours ago, SerenelyBlue said: When I don't give to charity as much as when I was a Christian, or when I commit minor sins, I always (in the back of my mind) have an irrational fear of divine retribution. But this is only an irrational fear. Right or wrong? What is your your take on Karma biting you in the ass? I refer to karma informally. As in bad deeds having bad consequences other than obvious consequences. Spiritual bad karma. Agnostic here. No, I don't believe in cosmic deed accounting/payback. From a human perspective, the more you treat people like shit, the more likely they are to give you some payback, however. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsiderTheSource Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 No. Witnessed "Karma" looks more like "regression to the mean" to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted May 13, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2019 8 hours ago, SerenelyBlue said: When I don't give to charity as much as when I was a Christian, or when I commit minor sins, I always (in the back of my mind) have an irrational fear of divine retribution. But this is only an irrational fear. Right or wrong? What is your your take on Karma biting you in the ass? I refer to karma informally. As in bad deeds having bad consequences other than obvious consequences. Spiritual bad karma. The main thing is what you said, in the back of your mind. That's your sub conscious mind. And what you're doing is feeding these thoughts, feelings and emotions into your sub conscious mind. So if there's any truth to claims that we attract to and around ourselves according what goes into our sub conscious minds, then there you have it. For instance, if you are feeding your sub conscious mind with a fear of divine retribution, it's entirely possible that you could then attract some negative circumstances to yourself as a way of your sub conscious mind drawing it in. In this situation it would be you doing it all to yourself the entire time. And if you weren't paying close enough attention, it would seem as if outside forces were doing something TO you. Does that make any sense, SB? I can expand, but first I'd like to know if the above makes sense to you or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Though, if you decide to drive on the streets at 5pm , there is that karma of hitting every red light...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenelyBlue Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: The main thing is what you said, in the back of your mind. That's your sub conscious mind. And what you're doing is feeding these thoughts, feelings and emotions into your sub conscious mind. So if there's any truth to claims that we attract to and around ourselves according what goes into our sub conscious minds, then there you have it. For instance, if you are feeding your sub conscious mind with a fear of divine retribution, it's entirely possible that you could then attract some negative circumstances to yourself as a way of your sub conscious mind drawing it in. In this situation it would be you doing it all to yourself the entire time. And if you weren't paying close enough attention, it would seem as if outside forces were doing something TO you. Does that make any sense, SB? I can expand, but first I'd like to know if the above makes sense to you or not. That makes sense to me thank you. One must just find a way to alter the subconscious mind then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, SerenelyBlue said: That makes sense to me thank you. One must just find a way to alter the subconscious mind then. They tried electric shock treatment on my mother back in the 70's. Farged her up good, it did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenelyBlue Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 Meditation will probably help. Or just an absolute awareness that karma is bull except for the subconscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted May 13, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, SerenelyBlue said: That makes sense to me thank you. One must just find a way to alter the subconscious mind then. And that can be easy. Just change what you are currently feeding in. Be aware of what's going into it, and adjust as you see fit. 10 hours ago, SerenelyBlue said: When I don't give to charity as much as when I was a Christian, or when I commit minor sins, I always (in the back of my mind) have an irrational fear of divine retribution. But this is only an irrational fear. You don't need to be superstitious about Karma, but at the same time, why not act according to a 'what goes around, comes around' philosophy? I don't see how it would hurt. When you're doing things just imagine that 'what goes around comes around', and then think about whether or not what you're doing is something that you'd like to see come back around. If not, that seems like a good indicator it's something you probably shouldn't be doing. Stealing, cheating on someone, bullying, whatever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 20 hours ago, SerenelyBlue said: When I don't give to charity as much as when I was a Christian, or when I commit minor sins, I always (in the back of my mind) have an irrational fear of divine retribution. But this is only an irrational fear. Right or wrong? What is your your take on Karma biting you in the ass? I refer to karma informally. As in bad deeds having bad consequences other than obvious consequences. Spiritual bad karma. Karma? How can a system like that exist, if it isn't self aware who gets what dished out in which way. Here is a seriously crude example of how Karma completely defies real justice. A child molester who's gotten away with their crimes eventually dies. So Karma has to exact some sort of punishment on this person. So Karma (Unthinkingly) sends that person back to earth to suffer the same fate that person did to other children in their past life. But in our reality whoever that reincarnated child is at that time, is being molested in no way that anyone can determine that Karma is involved. Maybe Karma should text message the authorities of this planet, before it decides to punish a soul. So then they'll know not to intervene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted May 14, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 14, 2019 18 hours ago, hyperferion said: A child molester who's gotten away with their crimes eventually dies. So Karma has to exact some sort of punishment on this person. So Karma (Unthinkingly) sends that person back to earth to suffer the same fate that person did to other children in their past life. But in our reality whoever that reincarnated child is at that time, is being molested in no way that anyone can determine that Karma is involved. The child would have to retain a memory of it's past life in order for the karma to be a punishment, in this reincarnation sense. Otherwise, it doesn't remember anything and all it knows is that someone is molesting it. But that's not really what SB's getting at. Just basically what goes around tends to come around within the scope of an individuals lifetime. Molesters or any other criminals eventually getting caught and not getting away with it forever, and so on. My ex wife is pretty shitty. Basically, she seems to attract around herself unfavorable circumstances. Why? Could be anything. But the smart money, in my view, is that she's attracting around herself according to her own piss poor, bad attitude. That's what she puts out, that's what seems to come back in. This sort of thing doesn't even hinge on any external or universal consciousness making choices or looking in on things. It only outlines that generally speaking, people tend to get back what they dish out. And it probably involves their own sub conscious minds, not an external mind. I think ancient mystics paid close attention to trends in life and then developed elaborate myths around them, Karma and reincarnation being a few examples. Probably not literally true to any exact science, but just a noticeable trend that people paying attention can pick up on. And then try and navigate accordingly in their own lives, for whatever it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: The child would have to retain a memory of it's past life in order for the karma to be a punishment, in this reincarnation sense. Otherwise, it doesn't remember anything and all it knows is that someone is molesting it. But that's not really what SB's getting at. Just basically what goes around tends to come around within the scope of an individuals lifetime. Molesters or any other criminals eventually getting caught and not getting away with it forever, and so on. My ex wife is pretty shitty. Basically, she seems to attract around herself unfavorable circumstances. Why? Could be anything. But the smart money, in my view, is that she's attracting around herself according to her own piss poor, bad attitude. That's what she puts out, that's what seems to come back in. This sort of thing doesn't even hinge on any external or universal consciousness making choices or looking in on things. It only outlines that generally speaking, people tend to get back what they dish out. And it probably involves their own sub conscious minds, not an external mind. I think ancient mystics paid close attention to trends in life and then developed elaborate myths around them, Karma and reincarnation being a few examples. Probably not literally true to any exact science, but just a noticeable trend that people paying attention can pick up on. And then try and navigate accordingly in their own lives, for whatever it's worth. With every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, if I force a good intention on you, you will naturally respond with an evil (Bad) reaction. That's why you should never force your children to brush their teeth (No matter how good you think your intentions are) because they'll just end up doing the very opposite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 14, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 14, 2019 No, not in the common way of talking about Karma where in a person robs an old lady and then the universe punishes them the next day by hitting them with a bus. I do think that actions have consequences, but these consequences are not related to any mysterious external force. So if I go around being a dick, then one day somebody smacks me in the face you might say "ah ha, Karma" when in fact it was a consequence of me being a dick. Which brings me to my primary commandment: Thou shalt not be a dick. On the same token lets say I'm generous and help the neighbour, and during then next year my business grows by 50%. Karma you might say, except the two are unrelated and the universe isn't helping me - on one hand I'm being a decent guy, on the other I'm probably good at managing my business. Once again actions have consequences, and a consequence of being a good business manager is your business runs well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 No, I don't believe in karma. Of course, actions have consequences. But lots of people get away with doing terrible things, and lots of decent people have terrible things happen to them for no apparent reason. People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, disillusioned said: No, I don't believe in karma. Of course, actions have consequences. But lots of people get away with doing terrible things, and lots of decent people have terrible things happen to them for no apparent reason. People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. Yes! I knew this awesome dude once, who said this. "Why do good thing's happen to bad people?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 15, 2019 Lets think of this another way. In order to believe in Karma (Or a loving God) you have to reconcile the fact that innocent children die of cancer. In the case of Karma the very general idea is good deeds are rewarded justly, and bad deeds are punished. How the hell did a 4 year old deserve the 'karma' of dying of cancer? Any explanation I've heard leads inherently to taking a position that is immoral. (E.g. her parents were bad and this is their punishment.) If Karma is a thing, and its punishing the 'sins' of the parent by killing children then it's no better than the genocidal child killer in the bible that kills King David's child because he cheated and got his commander killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Lets think of this another way. In order to believe in Karma (Or a loving God) you have to reconcile the fact that innocent children die of cancer. In the case of Karma the very general idea is good deeds are rewarded justly, and bad deeds are punished. How the hell did a 4 year old deserve the 'karma' of dying of cancer? Any explanation I've heard leads inherently to taking a position that is immoral. (E.g. her parents were bad and this is their punishment.) If Karma is a thing, and its punishing the 'sins' of the parent by killing children then it's no better than the genocidal child killer in the bible that kills King David's child because he cheated and got his commander killed. Is Karma God? It'll have to be to know how to arrange justice in every circumstance. This is all hindu stuff, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 hours ago, hyperferion said: Is Karma God? It'll have to be to know how to arrange justice in every circumstance. This is all hindu stuff, right? Karama and God are distinct ideas with overlapping concepts. I was pointing out that here are similar problems with both ideas. I'm not sure where the concept of Karma originated. Google would help me, but I'm not inclined to go ask it at this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 8 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: Karama and God are distinct ideas with overlapping concepts. I was pointing out that here are similar problems with both ideas. I'm not sure where the concept of Karma originated. Google would help me, but I'm not inclined to go ask it at this time https://www.ancient.eu/Karma/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 My old boss was a dick. He was widely regarded as a dick according to the middle managers. Now he's a Christian and goes to church. Maybe this is karmic payback? (haha) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, midniterider said: My old boss was a dick. He was widely regarded as a dick according to the middle managers. Now he's a Christian and goes to church. Maybe this is karmic payback? (haha) I guess he'll fit in well with all the other Christian dicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, hyperferion said: I guess he'll fit in well with all the other Christian dicks. His karma ran over his dogma? Boo. Hiiiissss. Old joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWishbone Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, MOHO said: His karma ran over his dogma? Boo. Hiiiissss. Old joke. Literally I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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