Plagiarism (Jesus Style)

[JohnnyWishbone]

I am going to need assistance on this thread, for fact checking & historical accuracy. I'll need your juicy Ex-Christian brains to add anything that relates to the idea I am about to put forward.

 

Okay, let's go.

 

I don't know if anyone has ever proposed this idea (Maybe in part)

Has anyone considered that if Jesus was some traveling Guru of that time, he was stealing his beliefs from all the other religious cultures that he was exposed to. He took their myths, doctrines, practices ect ect, and made a hybrid spirituality (Which is now Christianity)

 

The first thing I'll point out is the concept of death and resurrection. Does this concept even exist in the Old Testament? If it doesn't, then what religion did Jesus rip that from?

 

The second thing I'll point out is the sacrament (Bread & Wine) doesn't that come from Mithrasim? Did he rip that off?

 

The third thing I'll point out is the concept of hell he spread around (Hades) That's from the Greeks, right? Do you think he ripped that off too?

 

Is Jesus just a fucking con artist who stole the surrounding beliefs of his time, and eventually got his arse nailed to a cross because of it. 

 

If you can think of any other connection's like this, please post them.

 

 

 

 

 

[mwc]

     There isn't too much in the gospels that wasn't already accepted by the Jews.  Much of what is there is Pharisaic in nature.  They tended to believe in an afterlife of some sort (descriptions vary but Josephus tells us that the Pharisees were similar to the Greeks though doesn't provide much detail beyond that).  The ideas of resurrection, an end times resurrection, was around.  A specific resurrection for a single person wasn't so much a thing but since this presented in the story as the first of many, the sign of what was about to happen in general, it's not really a problem.  Communal meals could be taken from a number of sources including the Jews.  Lets not forget that Passover is a communal meal.

 

     There's really no need for a single person to emerge and rip-off anything.  These things had been "ripped-off" long before the first century CE.  People had been exchanging these ideas in one way or another for ages.  It's just a matter of sorting out who came up with what first and who sent what ideas in what direction.  Certainly the Jews "borrowed" stuff from Zoroastrianism for example.  The idea that a single person would have been the only person to be aware of these other, rather major religions, and share it is pretty unlikely considering all the contact these groups had with one another including inside of Judea itself.  Remember that just before this time that the Greeks had possession of the land (the Maccabees rebelled as a result) then with Rome coming just after with sympathetic rulers like the Herods who walked the line between both worlds but clearly allowed Roman influences into the land including their religions.  The Greco-Roman world was all around for a couple of centuries prior to when these events were supposed to have happened.  To have an ignorant populace, save one man, is a stretch.

 

          mwc

 

[JohnnyWishbone]

2 hours ago, mwc said:

     There isn't too much in the gospels that wasn't already accepted by the Jews.  Much of what is there is Pharisaic in nature.  They tended to believe in an afterlife of some sort (descriptions vary but Josephus tells us that the Pharisees were similar to the Greeks though doesn't provide much detail beyond that).  The ideas of resurrection, an end times resurrection, was around.  A specific resurrection for a single person wasn't so much a thing but since this presented in the story as the first of many, the sign of what was about to happen in general, it's not really a problem.  Communal meals could be taken from a number of sources including the Jews.  Lets not forget that Passover is a communal meal.

 

     There's really no need for a single person to emerge and rip-off anything.  These things had been "ripped-off" long before the first century CE.  People had been exchanging these ideas in one way or another for ages.  It's just a matter of sorting out who came up with what first and who sent what ideas in what direction.  Certainly the Jews "borrowed" stuff from Zoroastrianism for example.  The idea that a single person would have been the only person to be aware of these other, rather major religions, and share it is pretty unlikely considering all the contact these groups had with one another including inside of Judea itself.  Remember that just before this time that the Greeks had possession of the land (the Maccabees rebelled as a result) then with Rome coming just after with sympathetic rulers like the Herods who walked the line between both worlds but clearly allowed Roman influences into the land including their religions.  The Greco-Roman world was all around for a couple of centuries prior to when these events were supposed to have happened.  To have an ignorant populace, save one man, is a stretch.

 

          mwc

 

The 3 days Jesus was dead and then resurrected, the idea of a man being a sacrificial lamb. I can't think where that is implied in the Old Testament. Also, Jesus never said he was sinless. Also, he pointed out that he was not even as good as God.

 

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there isnone good but one, that is, God."

 

Sure there's always religious beliefs circulating around that get used and re-used. But did Jesus specifically nock off these beliefs? I know that Jesus teaching directly contradicts the Old Testament God in places, so did he just cherry pick what he wanted from where he wanted so he could start his own movement.

 

Look at Joseph Smith for instance, he was a gold digging, tall tale telling, cradle snatching, polygamist, cult leader. Who now looks like Jesus to these Mormons, and they can't see a damn thing wrong with his actions.

 

Is Jesus any different? He was a judgmental, picky, son of a bitch, loved to drink, used women as cash cows, condemned everyone, used hell fire to coerce people. And now Jesus looks like God the father to these Christian's.

[JohnnyWishbone]

 

[mwc]

9 hours ago, hyperferion said:

The 3 days Jesus was dead and then resurrected, the idea of a man being a sacrificial lamb. I can't think where that is implied in the Old Testament. Also, Jesus never said he was sinless. Also, he pointed out that he was not even as good as God.

     And yet the gospels keep telling us that this pretty much comes from the story of Jonah so...you know.  Why they think that I can't tell you but they do but it's clear they draw the parallel.

 

9 hours ago, hyperferion said:

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there isnone good but one, that is, God."

     Which is why they finally had the Council of Nicea.  Was jesus actually god or was jesus like god?  It took a vote.  That vote is what decided what people would ultimately believe not words were stuffed into the mouth of a sock-puppet in a story.

 

9 hours ago, hyperferion said:

Sure there's always religious beliefs circulating around that get used and re-used. But did Jesus specifically nock off these beliefs? I know that Jesus teaching directly contradicts the Old Testament God in places, so did he just cherry pick what he wanted from where he wanted so he could start his own movement.

     I've wondered down this path a decade or so ago.  There's really nothing to be found at the end of it.  By all means go ahead and research it for yourself so you can find out for yourself though.  The Jews were fairly diversified and only the Sadducees were probably as legalistic as the bible tries to paint all of them (usually the Herodians and Pharisees and even then this would have most likely only been in Jerusalem and fallen off as you moved away from the temple).

 

9 hours ago, hyperferion said:

Look at Joseph Smith for instance, he was a gold digging, tall tale telling, cradle snatching, polygamist, cult leader. Who now looks like Jesus to these Mormons, and they can't see a damn thing wrong with his actions.

 

Is Jesus any different? He was a judgmental, picky, son of a bitch, loved to drink, used women as cash cows, condemned everyone, used hell fire to coerce people. And now Jesus looks like God the father to these Christian's.

     Yep.  Now try finding more contemporaneous examples.

 

          mwc

 

[JohnnyWishbone]

20 minutes ago, mwc said:

     And yet the gospels keep telling us that this pretty much comes from the story of Jonah so...you know.  Why they think that I can't tell you but they do but it's clear they draw the parallel.

 

     Which is why they finally had the Council of Nicea.  Was jesus actually god or was jesus like god?  It took a vote.  That vote is what decided what people would ultimately believe not words were stuffed into the mouth of a sock-puppet in a story.

 

     I've wondered down this path a decade or so ago.  There's really nothing to be found at the end of it.  By all means go ahead and research it for yourself so you can find out for yourself though.  The Jews were fairly diversified and only the Sadducees were probably as legalistic as the bible tries to paint all of them (usually the Herodians and Pharisees and even then this would have most likely only been in Jerusalem and fallen off as you moved away from the temple).

 

     Yep.  Now try finding more contemporaneous examples.

 

          mwc

 

Two thumbs up on that one