Please Do Not Offend Jews And Christians

[philo]

There’s a show in America called the Apprentice. Most of you are familiar with it. One of the teams member’s has a guy on it who happens to be Jewish. I don’t know his name, but I’ll call him Mike. Mike has missed two weeks of boardroom showdowns because he has been out participating in some Jewish holidays. Last week, the leader of the losing team brought Mike into the boardroom as a possible candidate to get fired.

 

It was interesting to watch Donald Trump and how he essentially praised Mike for his religion, and how it was important for people to respect this faith. Trump offered no concerns that Mike was missing several tasks, while every other apprentice that has been present for every task was at risk of getting fired every week. The leader of the losing team was also having a difficult time tiptoeing around the issue that Mike was skipping out of essential projects, and missing out on potential opportunities to get fired. It stands to reason that if Mike had a Jewish service to attend every week, he could end up as the Apprentice without ever having to engage in a single task.

 

I do have some legitimate concerns about some of the beliefs taught in the OT, but this is not my point here. I also have nothing personal against Mike. But I thought the show raised some interesting questions.

 

When it comes to talking about religion or confronting those who have certain beliefs, we often err on the side of being very consolatory. We dare not offend (especially those of the Jewish persuasion) lest we be labeled as anti-Semitic. I seriously doubt that Mike is using his religion to skip through the Apprentice. I also give him the benefit of the doubt and suspect that he is not looking for any special treatment because of his faith. We often tread lightly around Christians as well. We are careful in what we say and how we say it. And I think the real reason we do this is because of the taboos that exist. I’d venture to say that most Christians on this board appreciate and welcome the dialog that goes on here. They don’t feel as if they are fragile creatures, and would probably prefer that they not be treated in any special manner.

 

Personally, I think it wrong to give Jews, Christians, or those of any religious persuasion special treatment. The same holds true for atheists. People should be free to enter into discussion about the good or evil effects of any ideology, without having to fear that they are offending someone. The taboos against religious discussion, and labeling those who oppose religions (such as atheists) is also entirely wrong. We have taken political correctness in this area way beyond the point of rationale to the point where no one benefits.

 

The issues can also be expanded in a broader context. I’m reminded of how airport security after 911 were randomly frisking 90-year-old ladies and letting other individuals go that probably should have been frisked. Their rationale was that they didn’t want to offend those of the Islamic religion. Remember Sinead O’Connor ripping up a picture of the pope on Saturday Night Live? She sure paid a hell of a price to remind the world of the church’s history and its influence in the world today. And what atheist doesn’t feel the condemnation of opposing the fundamentalist of today, or the current White House administration for its support of the Christian faith? What Christian for that matter doesn’t feel the condemnation from those who think them ignorant for believing what they believe?

 

What say ye?

[pandora]

I think it would have been a legal and PR nightmare if Trump didn't support his religion.

 

I see no reason to insist he miss important religious celebrations for the sake of a job. It's illegal and unfair, even if I think they are retarded for allowing some grace for religion.

 

Just my $0.02

[Ouroboros]

Very good points Philo. And I can't do much more than agree.

[Dhampir]

It's not a job, it's a contest, a competition. A job interview. You'd not leave a job interview in the middle if it, nor would you take a job so soon before a religious holiday you personally deemed too important to miss, for professionality's sake if nothing else.

 

I think the guy is riding the system, and needs to go, and if it were me, I'd have said exactly what I just typed to the guy, and gave him the decision to adhere to his faith, or leave the show; I'd not in any way hinder his right to worship.

[Mike D]

I agree what most here said...... I saw that episode (never miss it!) and I think Trump just wanted to avoid the PR nightmare if he didn't go easy on the Jewish guy. But in reality...... Trump knows better than anyone that business is competitive and at the end of the day if you don't deliver nobody is going to care that you had to take the day off because of your religion. Since when did religion become more important than the bottom line?

[Toxic]

On the British version of The Apprentice the guy who's offering the job, Sir Alan Micheal Sugar is a Jew. Interesting, that.

[philo]

Didn't know there was a Brit version. Which came first? You'll got and "Idol" show too?

 

It would be interesting if Lee was missing all the tasks, then Trump would really have to decide whether the PR was worth it.

[♦ nivek ♦]

When I read topic header, was reminded of the Monty Python sketch/song:

 

"Never be rude to an Arab.."

 

kL

[philo]

Nivek, I like your hat. Where can I get one of those?

[Onyx]

If I was Trump, I'd definitely have to look for honesty and of course, ability to make money, not religion!

If a jew or a christian can't do business, I'd have to dismiss them, I would done this to anyone, even an atheist if they're not useful, I will fire them.

Whatever happened to business expertise, Trump?

Why be ridiculous?

You're the ultimate 80s business guy, why not use your brains and expertise to select the best?

Of course, it's all for show, indeed!

America is in debt and economy is in the straits, it needs good business so we all don't get in a worldwide Great depression again!

Bush is crazy, he's going to plunge us in a neoDepression, courtesy of uneedful wars!

What's next, WW3?

That's suicide!

[♦ nivek ♦]

Nivek, I like your hat. Where can I get one of those?

 

philo...

 

I'd tell ya, but the yard sale/mini storage grey guys would come and take my alien spaceray protection hat away...

 

kL

[philo]

Onyx posted: Of course, it's all for show, indeed!

 

It is all for show, and not a very good one at that. My wife's a fanatic about it, but it stresses me out.

 

Nivek, I'm disappointed. I was hoping to market it and make a ton of money!

[LadyFeline]

Oh, for Christssake...

 

It's a fucking REALTIY TV SHOW. It's not a job, or a job interview. It's a bloody fucking contest to see who Trump likes better.

 

Even if it WAS a job interview, most places WILL reschedule if the date happens to fall on a religious holiday. Even if it WAS a job, they do allow you to take penalty-free days off for holidays.

 

Jesus fucking nonexistent Christ. I know this is "ExChristian.net" and all, but can you at least find a decent reason to rag on religious people? I swear, some people will jump at ANYTHING (or even nothing. Fucking gods, sometimes just BEING a member of a religion is enough to get some people here jumping down your throat ) for a chance to be hateful...

 

And then we wonder why the religious people think that ALL non-religious folks are hateful, spiteful, stupid, intolerant and immature...

[Dhampir]

Holy fucking bloody fucking christ on a bloody fucking stick, batm- er, feline.

 

The whole premise of the show is that it is a job interview, fer bloody fucking jesus nonexistent bloody fucking christs sake. Regardless of the entertainment aspect, or it's being a popularity contest. The contestants took issue with the fact that in this, a job interview/reality show contest, with real life consequences, whether you win or just place highly, that a man could just duck out during the course of it, and not be taken to task for it.

 

Were the ramifications not so steep, were this not a competition for a Real job in the Trump organization, were it not a Job Interview, most people wouldn't mind in the slightest. I say again that I would not embark on something like that if I felt my religious obligations at the time would conflict with it; that's just professional freakin' etiquette, if nothing else.

[philo]

Perhaps you're right LadyFeline. The last thing we want to do is upset the delicate balance of controls that religion has in this world. Better to play dead so we don't accept the status quo?

 

As a footnote, I don't blame Lee for his religion, I blame the ideologies and the "political correctness" that makes it a taboo to challenge the merits of any religion in this world.

[Mike D]

Jesus fucking nonexistent Christ. I know this is "ExChristian.net" and all, but can you at least find a decent reason to rag on religious people? I swear, some people will jump at ANYTHING (or even nothing. Fucking gods, sometimes just BEING a member of a religion is enough to get some people here jumping down your throat ) for a chance to be hateful...

 

And then we wonder why the religious people think that ALL non-religious folks are hateful, spiteful, stupid, intolerant and immature...

Wow. And sorry but I couldn't help but notice the irony of that line after reading your post.

 

I think the overriding theme of this thread is the preferential treatment of religous people in the workplace, which happens whether you're on a reality show or not. What's so hateful, spiteful, stupid, etc. about that?

[Taphophilia]

I have to say I've seen people at work who didn't do a damn thing but were thought of as an asset to the company just because they were liked by management. So, actaully doing the work, in some cases, isn't always a requirement for job proformance.

 

However, it is New York and I would suspect that a majority of business associates of Trump are Jewish. Trump is all about self promotion and having the opportunity to wholehearted support Judaism gave him some valuable brownie points. At the same time, if Trump had critcised him for observing his Jewish holidays, he would have had taken flack from many of the people he does business with.

 

Taph

[pitchu]

Imo, the Jewish guy was purposely given those dates for his participation in order to add yet another layer of "reality" to the reality show. It's even possible that the guy asked for another set of dates (these dates aren't set in stone, y'know) because of the conflict, but was refused, and decided to do what he felt he had to do. We can't know.

 

And once you're on the job, all major holidays of all religions are usually obliged in some way... so you make up the time off, or whatever is necessary.

 

Do we think mandatory Christmas Day and Easter Day participation in "The Apprentice" ever ever happened?!

[jjacksonRIAB]

It depends on your mindset.

 

If you happen to think more time spent in pursuit of X = better product or service X, then I can see why people would be upset that they are putting in all of this time that someone else, for whatever reason, is not.

 

Personally I try to live in a meritocracy. If someone can deliver product or service X, I don't generally care how much time they put into it as long as it actually gets done when I want it done - those two things are not equivocal, IMO. I am a big advocate of just living comfortably, not competitively.

 

I can understand LadyFeline's anger, as this could be seen as a trivial reason to be hating on people, though I don't think there was any hate expressed.

 

On the other hand, what I don't get is the general feeling that "we" have to impress upon Christians and other religious individuals that "we" are all of a superior mindset in order to be taken seriously. I became an atheist/agnostic in part to get away from that collectivist ideal and assert my individuality, not to become a member of a separate belief system that is only different in that it has no religious roots.

 

Frankly, I don't give a damn what group-X thinks of me. I'm not out to impress anyone, just to set up flags so the people who I'd be interested in will find me.

 

Libertarians are given the same kind of bad rap, because their ideals are not mainstream, so there is constant pressure to compromise their ideals to suit the mainstream to make them more amenable and get someone into an important position.

 

That's not the way it works. They're philosophies, not bodies or democracies. They cannot be voted to be more acceptable. Part of the appeal of many of these philosophies is that they can be applied in different areas.

 

In essence, fuck the body politick.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Quoth jj:

 

In essence, fuck the body politick. woohoo.gif

 

 

"The Force is strong within you young Freeman!"

 

kL

[jjacksonRIAB]

Quoth jj:

 

In essence, fuck the body politick. woohoo.gif

 

 

"The Force is strong within you young Freeman!"

 

kL

 

See, I raise a flag and find a friend who agrees with me to some extent. If I just agreed with everyone, how far would I get in such a mediocre practice?

 

Nivek,

 

Always a Freeman, and I'm getting bolder by the minute. These issues that are grating on me are becoming too great to ignore any longer.

[philo]

Taph, Interesting point:

 

However, it is New York and I would suspect that a majority of business associates of Trump are Jewish. Trump is all about self promotion and having the opportunity to wholehearted support Judaism gave him some valuable brownie points. At the same time, if Trump had critcised him for observing his Jewish holidays, he would have had taken flack from many of the people he does business with.

 

Generally speaking, most major religious walk hand in hand with the political powers that be. The two have always worked as a collective unit, usually to preserve power, and of late make more $$$$.

 

Here's another fine, practical example of tolerating religious influences in our world to increase ones bottom line. . .

[pitchu]

Taph, Interesting point:

 

However, it is New York and I would suspect that a majority of business associates of Trump are Jewish. Trump is all about self promotion and having the opportunity to wholehearted support Judaism gave him some valuable brownie points. At the same time, if Trump had critcised him for observing his Jewish holidays, he would have had taken flack from many of the people he does business with.

 

Generally speaking, most major religious walk hand in hand with the political powers that be. The two have always worked as a collective unit, usually to preserve power, and of late make more $$$$.

 

Here's another fine, practical example of tolerating religious influences in our world to increase ones bottom line. . .

Or... if alternate dates for appearing were requested by him, and, though they could have been given, were denied, it's another fine practical example of business using religion or whatever it can to increase the reality of a reality show and, subsequently, the bottom line.