The trouble with theology

[TEG]

The trouble with theology is that it is the product of man’s mind, a framework of deductive reasoning, and people who adhere to a rigid theological system end up mistaking the framework for the substance.  The “inerrant” bible is full of ambiguities and contradictions which must be harmonized somehow for it all to make sense.  Hence theology; “this is MY explanation for all this; accept it.”  “You must think as I think.”  And the worst part:  people don’t realize that they’re doing it, that they are elevating their own reasoning to the status of divine revelation; and a belief in biblical inerrancy ends up morphing into a belief in personal inerrancy.  The fact is, no matter how smart and dilligent you are, some other smart and dilligent person, in all sincerity, may draw a different conclusion from the same material.

 

Calvinism vs. Arminianism is a perfect example.  I do not know the minds/hearts of everyone, but I am willing to concede that at least some of the people on each side are true believers.  When intelligent believers line up on two diametrically-opposed sides of an issue like this, and when they each have bible verses to hurl at each other, a red flag should go up:  there is something wrong with this picture.  The most likely interpretation:  both sides are wrong.  Not necessarily their doctrinal positions per se (although they probably are), but the fact that they are pursing the issue in the first place.  “Good theology” vs. “bad theology” (actually “my theology” vs. “your theology”) is a false dichotomy; what about no theology?  Those supposed believers know how they should be living their lives; so why do they argue all the time?  The church would be in better shape if people stood up and called theology what it really is:  vain speculation.

 

I am writing this from an outsider’s perspective.  Theology no longer means anything to me other than a disturbing aspect of h. sapiens behavior.  Actually there is a personal irony:  if it were not for theology, I might still be a believer.

 

From the “inerrant” bible:

But refuse foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing that they generate strife.
—2 Timothy 2:23

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.  From such withdraw yourself.
—1 Timothy 6: 3-5

[MOHO]

1 hour ago, TEG said:

And the worst part:  people don’t realize that they’re doing it, that they are elevating their own reasoning to the status of divine revelation; and a belief in biblical inerrancy ends up morphing into a belief in personal inerrancy. 

 

This is the part that causes the most strain in my life. I suppose one could accuse atheists of the same  thing but, at least, we have a tendency to examine with a more open mind and look at all sides. Not saying that believers do not do this - just that it has been my experience that the occurrence of said open investigating is lower for believers. 

 

So, our arrogance is BETTER than theirs!

 

[florduh]

3 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

This is the part that causes the most strain in my life. I suppose one could accuse atheists of the same  thing but, at least, we have a tendency to examine with a more open mind and look at all sides. Not saying that believers do not do this - just that it has been my experience that the occurrence of said open investigating is lower for believers. 

 

So, our arrogance is BETTER than theirs!

 

Atheists are still just asking one simple question, "Where's your evidence? What is your proof?" The follow up to the lame answers consists of presenting scientific and historical facts along with some actual logic that refutes the claim as baseless on each count.

[mwc]

     I'm too impatient to sit behind shrubs and whatnot to try to spot gods in the wild in order to study them.

 

          mwc

 

[Joshpantera]

On 8/20/2019 at 11:06 AM, TEG said:

“Good theology” vs. “bad theology” (actually “my theology” vs. “your theology”) is a false dichotomy; what about no theology?  Those supposed believers know how they should be living their lives; so why do they argue all the time?  The church would be in better shape if people stood up and called theology what it really is:  vain speculation.

 

This summarizes everything that I was drawing out recently in the informal lion's den debate. First from William, second from LuthAMF. Both Calvinistic adherent's. And both refusing to fess up to their own vain speculations, which, they will not present as anything other than absolute truth and "real christianity." Both insisting that "theology" solves all apparent contradictions. And that if we were, "real christians," we would know how obvious it is that theology solves everything. 

 

When challenged to prove and demonstrate the claim, crickets. Tumble weeds. Pussy footing around and dodging. 

 

I went to the trouble of allowing this to play out so that people wondering about these claims can see what happens to these "vain speculators" when put on the spot, sat down in the hot seat, and challenged straight away to prove and substantiate themselves. As people like this pop up, they will be challenged to prove and substantiate themselves here. The problem is that they stick to their own and get away with these vain speculations and start thinking that there's merit to it all. Only to walk straight into a brick wall when facing ex christians who have already been there, already done that, and who have already broken through the wall and since moved on to places like, "no theology."