Apocalypse Addiction

[trashy]

Every time I think I have rid myself of Christian thinking, I find another area where that bullshit is still impacting me!

 

My most recent discovery is about apocalypse. Back in the day, this was always tied to the 2nd coming and/or rapture and millenium. On any given day you can find a headline that ties in to some prophecy and ‘proves’ that the Bible is right and *this time* it’s real, it’s happening. The end of the world.

Of course every apocalyptic prophecy ever made has failed, otherwise none of us would be here.

And yet I was forced to acknowledge that after leaving Christianity and becoming quite liberal in my beliefs I just traded one apocalypse in for another. This time the apocalypse was man-made. We’re killing all the animals and the air and now the climate and we’re all going to die at our own hands. It’s like I just started worshipping at the eco-disaster altar. 

I guess a second deconversion is in order...

[Bhim]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:24 PM, trashy said:

We’re killing all the animals and the air and now the climate and we’re all going to die at our own hands. It’s like I just started worshipping at the eco-disaster altar. 

I guess a second deconversion is in order...

 

Totally understood. I'm one of those (rare?) ex-Christians who is politically very conservative. The climate change debacle is part of what led me to this position. Mind you, I am far from scientifically illiterate. I have a PhD in astrophysics and have read a small fraction of the climate science literature (which is far more than the general public has done). I believe the science, of course. But the claims that "the world is ending in 12 years" are not only laughable and childish, but akin to the apocalpytic fears of my former fellow Christians. The claim that climate change is an expression of white supremacy is likewise worthy of ridicule. You can likely infer from my choice of non-Christian religion that I do not possess any Western European heritage whatsoever, and I am claiming that racism in the Western world does not exist in a significant measure. To even discuss racism in the context of climate change negates the very notion of so-called "climate justice" which is promulgated by the political left. This is merely an atheistic version of the Christian persecution complex. Climate justice advocates are effectively evangelical Christians who want us to repent of our sins and believe that the world is persecuting us. "Take heart, for climate activists have overcome the world."

 

I believe in climate science. I do not believe in climate justice. The latter is a religion, and I did not leave Jesus just to join another faith: one with far worse theology and worship music, at that.

 

Avoid anyone who tells you that the Sun Monster is going to kill you. This is simply another version of the Beast.

[Thurisaz]

Then again, we are wrecking this globe pretty well and pretty fast, so this "apocalypse" at least has a basis in fact. Of course that doesn't stop the journaille from hyping it all up until, if all you look at is the journaille, you have to think it's all bullcrap.

Sadly, pretty much all the scientists agree that this shit is happening. Disagreements are mostly about details, just like with evolutionary theory.

 

Not the nicest thing to post in here, but denying facts doesn't help anyone so...

[LogicalFallacy]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:24 PM, trashy said:

Every time I think I have rid myself of Christian thinking, I find another area where that bullshit is still impacting me!

 

My most recent discovery is about apocalypse. Back in the day, this was always tied to the 2nd coming and/or rapture and millenium. On any given day you can find a headline that ties in to some prophecy and ‘proves’ that the Bible is right and *this time* it’s real, it’s happening. The end of the world.

Of course every apocalyptic prophecy ever made has failed, otherwise none of us would be here.

And yet I was forced to acknowledge that after leaving Christianity and becoming quite liberal in my beliefs I just traded one apocalypse in for another. This time the apocalypse was man-made. We’re killing all the animals and the air and now the climate and we’re all going to die at our own hands. It’s like I just started worshipping at the eco-disaster altar. 

I guess a second deconversion is in order...

 

Recognising some salient facts of what humanity is doing to the planet, the destruction it is doing to the environment, and the expected destruction we can predict if things continue ho hum is not, IMO equivalent to biblical apoplectic teachings.

 

The bible apocalypse is based on pure bullshit, while our effects on the environment are real and well documented. Fantasy vs facts. and yes as Thurisaz points out, the media, and politicians will hype things to beyond what the actual threats are (Which pisses me off no end).

 

Deciding to 'deconvert' and decide its all a load of baloney will not alter the facts. I don't think any one of us actually fully understand the harm we are doing to our environment - the one we require to survive. Found out the other day that our ships are coated with a special paint designed to flake off in the sea in order to stop the hull getting stuff like barnacles and seaweed on it. This paint, from all these ships is, shock horror whoduvthunk, is poisoning the fish... that we eat. And that is one problem out of many we currently face solely on ocean environmental issues.

 

Not sure if you'd call fucking up our environment, and by extension our potential ability to survive, an apocalypse, but it's not a healthy long term survival plan.

[trashy]

2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Recognising some salient facts of what humanity is doing to the planet, the destruction it is doing to the environment, and the expected destruction we can predict if things continue ho hum is not, IMO equivalent to biblical apoplectic teachings.

 You haven’t been reading the books I have been reading...

 

https://thenewpress.com/books/end-of-ice

 

https://www.amazon.com/Uninhabitable-Earth-Life-After-Warming/dp/0525576703
 

just really glad I found my way out of that hole of despair

[LogicalFallacy]

25 minutes ago, trashy said:

 You haven’t been reading the books I have been reading...

 

https://thenewpress.com/books/end-of-ice

 

https://www.amazon.com/Uninhabitable-Earth-Life-After-Warming/dp/0525576703
 

 

I've heard of The Uninhabitable Earth. I haven't read it, but some critiques I read think it goes too far.

 

25 minutes ago, trashy said:

just really glad I found my way out of that hole of despair

 

So what do you mean by that? Like have you simply accepted what you've read and that makes you feel better, or you have just outright rejected that we have any impact on the planet? Something else?

 

I accept that we (humans) are destroying the environment on a massive scale and this has the potential to adversely affect both humanity and the flora and fauna we share the planet with. But don't find myself in a hole of despair. 

 

[trashy]

On 9/16/2019 at 1:41 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I've heard of The Uninhabitable Earth. I haven't read it, but some critiques I read think it goes too far.

 

It does indeed. Between that book and the other, I became convinced that it’s simply too late to do anything about it. I began, for the first time, to consider survivalist strategies and assisted suicide when things got real bad. Yes, the books were quite convincing.

 

On 9/16/2019 at 1:41 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

So what do you mean by that? Like have you simply accepted what you've read and that makes you feel better, or you have just outright rejected that we have any impact on the planet? Something else?

 

I accept that we (humans) are destroying the environment on a massive scale and this has the potential to adversely affect both humanity and the flora and fauna we share the planet with. But don't find myself in a hole of despair. 

 

My way out of the hole began with extinction numbers. I felt rather inundated with the numbers, but at some point some part of my brain said “Now wait a minute! There aren’t that many species out there. With that many extinctions, they would already all be gone, right?” So I did some research and discovered that the entity generally charged with monitoring species populations and threats (the IUCN) has documented 800 in 400 years. That’s like 2 a year. But I was hearing all about us entering a ‘Sixth Extinction’ and their numbers were more like in the thousands. Any way, when I discovered that the big numbers were just estimates from computer models, not *actual* extinctions, I was both relieved and rather pissed at the deception! I think this article is a very good primer on the topic, if you’re interested:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/global_extinction_rates_why_do_estimates_vary_so_wildly

 

That led me to further reading and I began to question the whole CO2 threat as being wildly overblown. Obviously that’s a hot topic, but that’s what helped me pull back from the edge. I’m still quite concerned about the planet, but I can now focus on direct threats in the here and now (pollution, etc.) and stop worrying about computer models predicting catastrophe next century. Pulling 3rd world/developing nations up into the ranks of ‘developed’ countries is probably the largest impact we can have, and the sooner the better. They have a lot of coal, and it would be nice if they could skip that whole part of our history. 

[Margee]

This documentary always helped me to understand the earth (and what looks like an apocalypse) for probably billions of years. And of course humans are screwing it up even more. We, the 'entitled species'...... Lol

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

48 minutes ago, trashy said:

 

It does indeed. Between that book and the other, I became convinced that it’s simply too late to do anything about it. I began, for the first time, to consider survivalist strategies and assisted suicide when things got real bad. Yes, the books were quite convincing.

 

 

My way out of the hole began with extinction numbers. I felt rather inundated with the numbers, but at some point some part of my brain said “Now wait a minute! There aren’t that many species out there. With that many extinctions, they would already all be gone, right?” So I did some research and discovered that the entity generally charged with monitoring species populations and threats (the IUCN) has documented 800 in 400 years. That’s like 2 a year. But I was hearing all about us entering a ‘Sixth Extinction’ and their numbers were more like in the thousands. Any way, when I discovered that the big numbers were just estimates from computer models, not *actual* extinctions, I was both relieved and rather pissed at the deception! I think this article is a very good primer on the topic, if you’re interested:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/global_extinction_rates_why_do_estimates_vary_so_wildly

 

That led me to further reading and I began to question the whole CO2 threat as being wildly overblown. Obviously that’s a hot topic, but that’s what helped me pull back from the edge. I’m still quite concerned about the planet, but I can now focus on direct threats in the here and now (pollution, etc.) and stop worrying about computer models predicting catastrophe next century. Pulling 3rd world/developing nations up into the ranks of ‘developed’ countries is probably the largest impact we can have, and the sooner the better. They have a lot of coal, and it would be nice if they could skip that whole part of our history. 

 

Thanks for clarifying. I'm largely with you here.

 

I think immediate problems like pollution and environment destruction are our biggest threats. And by destruction I don't just mean cutting down forests - I mean the whole thing, spewing chemicals and dairy run off into rivers, toxins in the air, mass fishing leading to depletion of fish stocks and disrupting ecosystems etc

 

I also think that if we focus on the immediate problems it will fix up longer term issues like releasing CO2. If we get cleaner cars, cleaner power production, ways to recycle much of our waste etc it will help. We also need to think hard about how we hold commercial business responsible. Basically I think if you can't produce a good or service without causing a net destruction or pollution then its not sustainable and shouldn't be allowed.