Is incredulity the root?

[Wertbag]

I have long enjoyed reading up on crazy conspiracy theories, especially to see how flat earthers will attempt to distort reality to make the world fit a pizza dish. The one thing that seems to be a driving force there is incredulity, and I wonder how much that is also a root of religious grounding? 

With the FEers you often hear "thats ridiculous", "unbelievable" and "I can't imagine that" when talking about the size, age, speed or mechanics of the universe. It seems to be all that is required for a lot of people to jump to conclusions that sound better to them regardless of counter evidence. "just look around you and you will always see a flat earth. Use a telescope or fly in a plane and you will still just see flat as far as the eye can see". 

"Here are videos and photos of boats sailing over the curve and disappearing from the bottom up" 

"That must be wrong because I've already decided the world is flat" 

 

I see the same incredulity from Christian apologists. "You think there was nothing and it exploded? Ridiculous", "You think life sprang from a rock? Unbelievable" or "I can't imagine a universe this complex without a controlling being" 

 

We have evolved to trust our senses, which on the local scale makes sense. Listen for the rustle of the bushes which might indicate an ambush, look for movement or approaching threats, and smell potential food sources to see if they may be off. It only becomes an issue when the scale of the question is so large that our limited viewpoint cannot encompass the scope. How do you envision the big bang? Evolution over billions of years? The distance to the nearest stars? 

Our senses tell us the world is flat but our calculations tell us our senses are wrong. 

 

Richard Dawkins said it was coming to understand evolution that took him away from Christianity, but not because god was no longer required but because his mind had opened to the beauty and wonder of nature. He stopped relying on his limited human perception and allowed his mind to expand to understand a bigger truth. Being in awe of nature makes you less likely to direct your wonder to the supernatural. 

[LogicalFallacy]

I think it's at least one of the 'main roots'.

 

I watched an anti climate change video two days ago. It's entire premise rested on the assumption that something so small (CO2 is a fraction of the atmosphere) cannot affect climate.

 

This is basically a great example of argument from incredulity. Regardless of your position on Climate change this is a very bad argument. A quick bit of logical thinking will demonstrate that just because something is infinitesimal compared to some other thing being compared does not mean it won't have a huge impact.

 

Take bacteria - you can't see them (with your eyes alone), feel them, but they can and do kill millions.

 

I think incredulity leads directly to god of the gaps. You've probably all heard it before - the cell {insert any other amazing thing] is so amazing it can't have just happened - therefore goddidit.

[Joshpantera]

On 9/15/2019 at 3:38 PM, Wertbag said:

I see the same incredulity from Christian apologists. "You think there was nothing and it exploded? Ridiculous", "You think life sprang from a rock? Unbelievable" or "I can't imagine a universe this complex without a controlling being" 

 

The apologist LuthAMF did just that. 

 

On 9/15/2019 at 3:38 PM, Wertbag said:

We have evolved to trust our senses, which on the local scale makes sense. Listen for the rustle of the bushes which might indicate an ambush, look for movement or approaching threats, and smell potential food sources to see if they may be off. It only becomes an issue when the scale of the question is so large that our limited viewpoint cannot encompass the scope. How do you envision the big bang? Evolution over billions of years? The distance to the nearest stars? 

Our senses tell us the world is flat but our calculations tell us our senses are wrong. 

 

Do our senses even tell us that the world is flat, though? 

 

How is it day light in one location but night in another if the world is flat? If you step on a ship, why don't either you fall off the edge of the earth nor the port you left from fall off the edge of the earth once you can no longer visibly see it? How many other celestial objects in the night sky appear flat, rather than spherical? Not the sun, not the moon, not the other planets and not the stars as far as the eye can see.

 

So a flat, round disk earth but every other celestial object spherical? 

 

We're dealing with people that 1) credulously take the biblical cosmology at face value and 2) then put on an incredulous act towards anything contrary thereafter 3) when our senses don't even actually point us in the direction of taking 1) at face value. In fact, our senses, good reason and all observation point towards a spherical earth. So we're dealing with a mix of issues here. 

[TEG]

The earth’s shadow on the moon during an eclipse is always a circle, no matter what direction the moon is; that means that the object casting the shadow is a sphere.  The ancient greeks figured that out.  Flat-earthers might as well go back to living in caves.

 

Anti-science people living in the modern world are a total contradiction.  They use computers and cell phones, microwaves, fluorescent lights, airplanes, etc. without a second thought.  But when something like evolution comes up, they insist it can’t be true because it contradicts their ancient book.  It’s all the same science . . . .

[Wertbag]

7 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

Do our senses even tell us that the world is flat, though?

We can't perceive the curve because we are too close to it. From our limited viewpoint we can only see the horizon in the distance and even from the top of mountains you still only see a flat plain. When a FEer says "can you see a curve? Can you see the curve from a plane? Do you know its curved or are you just repeating what you've been told?" to someone who knows little or nothing about other proof and evidence this can seem a valid point. 

 

7 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

How is it day light in one location by night in another if the world is flat? If you step on a ship, why don't either you fall off the edge of the earth nor the port you left from fall off the edge of the earth once you can no longer visibly see it? How many other celestial objects in the night sky appear flat, rather than spherical? Not the sun, not the moon, not the other planets and not the stars as far as the eye can see.

(Crazy apologist hat on): Day and night are due to the sun being smaller, closer and directional. 

You don't fall off the disc because the edge is passed the Antarctic ring, all other travel is a circle on the disc. 

Flat celetial objects: the moon only has a single disc like side that always faces us. The sun is a flat disc when viewed from earth. The stars are points of light not spherical objects. The only spheres we see are the cgi images from NaSa. 

[LogicalFallacy]

56 minutes ago, Wertbag said:

 to someone who knows little or nothing about other proof and evidence this can seem a valid point. 

 

Bit of an indictment on the education system isn't it that we all learned the earth was a sphere but some cannot tell you why we know this and thus get caught by clap trap.

[Joshpantera]

6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

We can't perceive the curve because we are too close to it. From our limited viewpoint we can only see the horizon in the distance and even from the top of mountains you still only see a flat plain. When a FEer says "can you see a curve? Can you see the curve from a plane? Do you know its curved or are you just repeating what you've been told?" to someone who knows little or nothing about other proof and evidence this can seem a valid point. 

 

(Crazy apologist hat on): Day and night are due to the sun being smaller, closer and directional. 

You don't fall off the disc because the edge is passed the Antarctic ring, all other travel is a circle on the disc. 

Flat celetial objects: the moon only has a single disc like side that always faces us. The sun is a flat disc when viewed from earth. The stars are points of light not spherical objects. The only spheres we see are the cgi images from NaSa. 

 

[Moonobserver]

So have the flat-earther take a telescope to the beach and watch the boat go over the curve of the horizon himself; then he'll be forced to believe that the boat sank into the water----because that's what his eyes told him! 

 

But first, make sure that a friend of the flat-earther is on the boat and then have him call his friend and ask, "Did your boat just sink into the ocean?" When his friend says, "No," where will he hide from that reality?

[LogicalFallacy]

6 hours ago, Moonobserver said:

So have the flat-earther take a telescope to the beach and watch the boat go over the curve of the horizon himself; then he'll be forced to believe that the boat sank into the water----because that's what his eyes told him! 

 

But first, make sure that a friend of the flat-earther is on the boat and then have him call his friend and ask, "Did your boat just sink into the ocean?" When his friend says, "No," where will he hide from that reality?

 

I think you underestimate the stupidity of these people and the extent at which they just make bullshit up to convince themselves.