Taphophilia Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I was thinking about this the other day. Christians have no problem saying that animals have no souls. This is the only life an animal gets and when an animal dies, no matter how beloved it is if it's their pet, they just cease to exist. However, they believe people have souls. When we die we go on to an afterlife to live forever in whatever destination your headed for. They can't comprehend that people don't have souls. They don't understand how a person can believe that people don't have souls, and think if you don't believe in souls you are somehow mentally deficient. Why is it so hard for them to make the leap from animals to people? Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofspong Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Back when i was a christian, my dad taught me that animals have no souls. Thats why it was okay to blow Fluffy's brains out when she became a nuisance. I love my dad, but damn I think in another life, he woulda been really evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I think there are a couple of verses in the OT that claim that animals do have a soul. According to the teaching I got animals didn't have a "spirit", but they had a soul. And it's the spirit that separates us from the animals, and it's the spirit that gets "born again". All junk, but that's how I was taught. The OT also say "the soul is in the blood", that's why blood had to be shed as sacrifice. The soul of the animal was given as a substitute of the soul of the sinful human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Then again if humans are a subset of animals...and one of the features of animals is that they don't have souls, then wouldn't it follow that humans also lack souls? Oh...wait...I forgot...Christianity. Logic and consistiency need not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 I think there are a couple of verses in the OT that claim that animals do have a soul. According to the teaching I got animals didn't have a "spirit", but they had a soul. And it's the spirit that separates us from the animals, and it's the spirit that gets "born again". All junk, but that's how I was taught. The OT also say "the soul is in the blood", that's why blood had to be shed as sacrifice. The soul of the animal was given as a substitute of the soul of the sinful human. I've never heard this one. What denomination were you Hans? How did your family get mixed up in fundamentalism in Sweden of all places? Taph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I think this is why they have such a cow over evolution. They have to oppose evolution not so much because it conflicts the "timeline" created by the bible (intelligent design afficionados don't seem to have a problem there), but because humans are clearly shown to really be no different than animals. And if that is the case, and the christians already believe animals have no souls, when they have to justify how the hell humans have them with their limited 'I-stopped-learning-when-I-got-my HS-diploma', their little monkey cousin brains would fry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted April 17, 2006 Author Share Posted April 17, 2006 I think this is why they have such a cow over evolution. They have to oppose evolution not so much because it conflicts the "timeline" created by the bible (intelligent design afficionados don't seem to have a problem there), but because humans are clearly shown to really be no different than animals. And if that is the case, and the christians already believe animals have no souls, when they have to justify how the hell humans have them with their limited 'I-stopped-learning-when-I-got-my HS-diploma', their little monkey cousin brains would fry. High school? My daughter who is in 8th grade is learning about evolution. Christians reject Eighth grade science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I've never heard this one. What denomination were you Hans? How did your family get mixed up in fundamentalism in Sweden of all places? Pentecostal and then Word of Life, in US I went to Calvary Chapel. Here's the Bible verses: 1. Animals have a soul Let's start with the Darby translation, Genesis say animals have a soul: Darby, Ge 1:30 and to every animal of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth on the earth, in which is a living soul, every green herb for food. And it was so. Then King James KJVA, Re 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. (There's no humans living in the sea, but still there are living souls there that can die. Must be animals or mermaids.) 2. The triune human consctruct The spirit in humans (being separate from the soul) is an idea in many pentecostal kinds of denominations. (human: 3 parts, just like God: 3 parts, and that's what it meant with likeness) The Bible support for this is very shaky, since the trinity isn't well supported either. There are verses in OT and NT and uses soul and spirit interchangebly in different contexts. So it's not consistent. 3. Blood as an atonement for sins JKV Le 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.' Sometimes I wonder if they really teach anything in church anymore... So you see, the OT and NT say animals have a soul, and OT say the blood is in the soul, and blood is needed for forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 My dad used to whistfully ponder the ideal that god would make room in his kingdom for our well-loved family dogs. I think it's strange though - and not just for Christians, but people in general - that it is easy to contemplate the fact that a worm, when crushed, just ceases to exist, but when a human life ends that there must be something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 And we, Cute Bunnyists, know that animals have a soul (and spirit if you so like). Because the Cute Bunny breathed on all the animals, and made them to his likeness. The World was created when he said "Let there be carrots." Then the angel bunnies replied "lettuce pray"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 back when i was a catholic, i was kicked out my religion class for arguing that if people have souls, so would all other animals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luck Mermaid Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I don't entirely understand the way some people have a hatred of their animal nature, but that is not what's shameful. those who seek constantly to abuse others (I'd say degrade but you can't just 'degrade' you can only abuse, although in time I guess a person can become degraded by that). It is sh ameful the way we look at other poeple and abuse them, and it is shameful the way we look at animals and abuse them, and the way it's always just a religous excuse away. It doesn't surprise me that many of the hardcore fundamentalists are white supremacists, their ancestors made a living off of abusings theirs brothers of different nations and colors and the land they settled on, and they of course needed to justify that (in the bible or wherever), and now they abuse the earth and animals - of couse they always have a justification. It's not shameful that I came from a monkey. Denial of i tand needing o establish systems of highliness VS lowliness and abuse - that is shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 I've never heard this one. What denomination were you Hans? How did your family get mixed up in fundamentalism in Sweden of all places? Taph When I was in the Elim Pentecostal church we had a contingent of Swedish members over on a goodwill visit, so obviously there are fundies in Sweden too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Xians claim animals have no souls for a number of reasons, I'm sure. One of which is that since animals cannot communicate with us on the same scale and nature as other humans can, it's impossible to convey ideas of ours to them. Hence, Xians can't make animals into Xians. Animals aren't going to go to church, pass out tracts, start congregations of their own, and so forth. Animals can't be made into Xians, so Xians in turn say they have no souls. That, and I believe Judaism started a trend of selfishness and ugliness towards other living beings that other extant religions never had, and its spawn (Xianity and Is-lame) picked up on that and carried that ugliness on. That's where you get this business of "Gawd's Chosen People" and the inherent racism/xenophobia that goes along with it. Non-believers are lower than the "faithful" and animals, since they cannot believe, are lower than infidels. Why respect the earth or other living beings if your god doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Xians claim animals have no souls for a number of reasons, I'm sure. One of which is that since animals cannot communicate with us on the same scale and nature as other humans can, it's impossible to convey ideas of ours to them ... But that didn't stop some of them from trying, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi. As for me, if my beloved pets won't be in heaven waiting for me, then I don't think I would want to be there. On the other hand, if the people who call themselves True Christians™ will be heaven, then I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to be there. So, from my standpoint, it's a good thing that it's all a tremendous lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 As for me, if my beloved pets won't be in heaven waiting for me, then I don't think I would want to be there. Same here. Judging by comparison of behavior, it seems to me that we're the ones with the chance of having no souls - merely selfish, survival-obsessed cold machines. We're the ones who go to war and kill for the sheer pleasure of that feeling of power. Perhaps the Christians are jealous of the relative dignity of animals and their simple acceptance of their place in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luck Mermaid Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 "That, and I believe Judaism started a trend of selfishness and ugliness towards " Yeah, it was the Jews. We did it all... who keeps the metric system down? WE DO!!!! How original. You're a real freethinking. Not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 "That, and I believe Judaism started a trend of selfishness and ugliness towards " Yeah, it was the Jews. We did it all... who keeps the metric system down? WE DO!!!! How original. You're a real freethinking. Not. I didn't blame the Jews, per se, just Judaism - in whose Torah (ie, the Old Testament) we find a bloodthirsty, psychopath of a god who promtes racism, genocide, rape, animal sacrifice, and general disdain of all who are not of his special fan club. I criticized Jewish religion and those who promote it, not all Jewish people (since not all Jews believe Judaic tripe). After all, if it weren't for Judaism, we'd have no Xianity. Do the math. Don't pull that crap with me, kid. Pitchu tried that once and got my foot up her ass - wanna be next? Accuse a critic of Judaism of anti-semitism. How original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 There are plenty of other "chosen people" the world over- the Jews were by no means the only folks with that worldview. But yeah, that old testament tells quite a story. And it's us hillbillies who keep the metric system down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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