Wertbag Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Another thing which isn't clear from the teachings I've heard, is whether God would punish people who are ignorant of his existence. The classic example would be an African tribesman who has never met a westerner. He knows nothing of Christianity, the bible or Jesus, so when he dies he would not be a believer and would not have Jesus in his heart. Does the "no one gets to God except via me" line mean that the ignorant tribesman will burn in hell for his lack of belief? Or would Christians go with that being unjust and there is no way a merciful god would do such a thing? If god doesn't punish the ignorant, so the African tribesman would get into heaven, then entry is not purely based on belief, so maybe the mans works will be considered? Or perhaps he gets to gain belief after physically meeting the chaps in heaven? If the ignorant can enter heaven, then teaching Christianity would be the thing that damns souls to hell. Prior to knowing they could not choose to reject god, it is only after being taught about it that you are not ignorant and become hell bound. That would mean burning all bibles and closing all churches would save souls... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Wertbag said: That would mean burning all bibles and closing all churches would save souls... Hey, that's a great idea! It's what the early church did to the pagans-----in addition to killing them. So, let's get started------and hope Trump doesn't send the DHS after us! (I think it is past time for me to go to bed) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 According to Romans 1 nobody is ignorant of God's existence. 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Therefore, nobody is ignorant of God and those that claim that they are lying. If you look at the spread of Christianity from a historical p.o.v., then that does allow for generations of Africans, Mayans, Inuits and similar to die in ignorance of missionary Christianity. But the Word trumps history. There is no excuse! Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, WalterP said: 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Surely, you can just look at nature and automatically understand God's plan for mankind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Wertbag, The answer to your question is Yes. According to the first three chapters of Romans God does punish those who are ignorant of Jesus Christ. As I showed earlier, in response to Weezer, the apostle Paul says that everyone, no matter where or when they were born, can claim to be ignorant of the existence of God. But knowledge of His existence doesn't bring salvation. That knowledge only brings condemnation and wrath. It's not until Romans 3 : 21 that Paul mentions how anyone is saved. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. The knowledge of Jesus Christ spread gradually throughout the world, not reaching the remote parts of Africa, the Americas and Australasia until the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. So, if you were born and died in any one of these places before Christianity got there, then God will indeed punish you for being ignorant of His Son's sacrifice. God predestined you to never hear the only message that could have saved you from everlasting torment. God foreknew this before He created you and hundreds of millions like you. Please draw your own conclusions about a God who would do this to glorify Himself. Thank you. Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Here's a couple more. Peachy god, huh? OT: Lev 5:17 "If anyone sins and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though they do not know it, they are guilty and will be held responsible." NT: Luke 12:47-48 "“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 1, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted August 1, 2020 Does god punish the ignorant? I wouldn't know. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 On 8/1/2020 at 11:50 AM, Fuego said: OT: Lev 5:17 "If anyone sins and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, even though they do not know it, they are guilty and will be held responsible." Well that's just great. God's command "have no gods before me" and yet he will punish people who have no idea he exists? Or the people who work on the Sabbath, having never heard what the Sabbath is, are guilty and will be punished for something that they had no way to know was sacred? Just and Merciful my ass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ DestinyTurtle ◊ Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 On 8/2/2020 at 5:35 PM, Wertbag said: Just and Merciful my ass. Having grown up in a hellfire-and-brimstone family, my observation is that in general pagans and non-believers are not considered "human", so their eternal torture and suffering is non-problematic for the same reasons genocide is non-problematic to peoples perpetuating it. When god's wrath against non-believers is discussed it's always only about how glorious and powerful it shows that god is, and never whether it puts his mercy in question. The only *real* mercy, from their perspective, is mercy toward Christians, or the very narrow circle of people still defined as christian within their ever-shrinking definition of the term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh19 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Probably, from what I read in the Bible, God's justice is rather arbitrary like a tyrant. Remember he struck this fella dead simply because this man, out of good intention, tried to adjust the Holy Ark when the oxen stumbled - 2 Samuel 6:7. So unreasonable ! God also said he will give mercy to whoever he like, or does not. This is the scary part, God can do whatever he pleased, we have no say in it. God hardened Pharaoh's heart (even he want to let the Israelites free) so he can complete the last plague to kill all the first born. Romans 9:17-18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 2:57 AM, Josh19 said: Probably, from what I read in the Bible, God's justice is rather arbitrary like a tyrant. Remember he struck this fella dead simply because this man, out of good intention, tried to adjust the Holy Ark when the oxen stumbled And you still follow this "loving" "god"?? Haven't you noticed the inconsistency, even disconnect here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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