I Trusted The Drug Companies

[The Sage Nabooru]

Well, the generic Wellbutrin, Bupropion. Let me tell you, not only is my new shrink a total quack, but this is the most hellish stuff I've ever been on. Anti-depressant my ass.

 

First of all and most importantly, it has made me feel worse. My depression has gotten stronger. You know, depressed people, that feeling in your chest that your heart is literally heavy? Well, right now my heart feels like it weighs fifty pounds. I used to be entertained by things and enjoy hobbies - and in the two weeks I've been on this shit I've totally lost interest in everything. I've lost my appetite although my stomach constantly feels hungry. My first few days I was so jumpy (esp. my legs) I couldn't sleep at night for all the twitching.

 

Perhaps strangest of all, this drug makes the day go on forever. Days used to go by at a fairly steady rate - for some reason, now I feel like every hour never ends. My heart keeps getting heavier and heavier, I have nausea, and there have been more than a couple of times that I thought I'd kill myself.

 

Here's the cincher: I went online to study this shit pill, and discovered the warnings and contraindications. Not only do I qualify for more than several, my doctor put me on it anyway, but it amazes me how many of these "anti-depressants" warn of suicidal tendencies and fucking DEPRESSION as "side effects"! I'm pretty sure if I had cancer, I wouldn't take anything that had the possibility of making the tumor grow even larger. And, the worse the depression is, the worse it's going to get once you start taking it. Hmm, actual medication, or ruse to get you to keep taking pills in the belief that "in a few weeks" you'll start feeling better after all this bullshit? Perhaps after calling my doctor he'll up my dosage I'll really start to feel like crap and make more appointments with him.

 

If I sound like I'm ranting and raving, I am. I just can't believe how this shit gets on the market. I used to pooh-pooh the people whining about the drug industry; now I feel like they may have a point.

[Amethyst]

You should definitely call the doc. If the side effects of the drug are making you consider killing yourself, it's not worth taking. Can you find a new doctor who isn't a moron?

[JGJ@ReligionisBullshit]

Amethyst

 

Without knowing what history Sage gave his doctor it is impossible to make a judgement call his Doctor's ability to treat. Everything a doctor does is based on what you tell him, they are not psychic, and most will tell you that if you have contraindications to cease immediately and notify your doctor or the document that comes with your prescription will tell you the same.

[Amethyst]

Amethyst

 

Without knowing what history Sage gave his doctor it is impossible to make a judgement call his Doctor's ability to treat. Everything a doctor does is based on what you tell him, they are not psychic, and most will tell you that if you have contraindications to cease immediately and notify your doctor or the document that comes with your prescription will tell you the same.

 

Um...from his own words, he is seriously considering suicide because of the prescription. I am NOT saying that all doctors are morons, by any means. But when there are widely reported warnings that a drug has a good chance of causing depression, and apparently his doctor did not tell him about the warnings because he had to go online to find them, the doctor made a pretty huge mistake of not warning him.

 

Please note that my perspective is from someone whose life has been seriously affected by suicide. When I was a kid, my cousin commited it. When I was in HS, a friend of mine killed herself. A few years ago, my housemate killed himself (by fire, no less).

 

Whatever happened to doing no harm? I thought the doctors all took an oath. I guess that oath is meaningless these days.

[Nihil]

I hate drugs. Well, non-recreational ones, anyway. My doc tried to get me one celexa for depression, but it made me both tired and insomniaic. Finally I told him I could only function under a smaller dosage.

 

If the pills make you worse, don't take them. Fuck the doctors.

[JGJ@ReligionisBullshit]

Amethyst

 

Without knowing what history Sage gave his doctor it is impossible to make a judgement call his Doctor's ability to treat. Everything a doctor does is based on what you tell him, they are not psychic, and most will tell you that if you have contraindications to cease immediately and notify your doctor or the document that comes with your prescription will tell you the same.

 

Um...from his own words, he is seriously considering suicide because of the prescription. I am NOT saying that all doctors are morons, by any means. But when there are widely reported warnings that a drug has a good chance of causing depression, and apparently his doctor did not tell him about the warnings because he had to go online to find them, the doctor made a pretty huge mistake of not warning him.

 

Please note that my perspective is from someone whose life has been seriously affected by suicide. When I was a kid, my cousin commited it. When I was in HS, a friend of mine killed herself. A few years ago, my housemate killed himself (by fire, no less).

 

Whatever happened to doing no harm? I thought the doctors all took an oath. I guess that oath is meaningless these days.

 

So I suppose you know everything that he told his doctor? You know the results but not the story beforehand and neither do I. When doctors write prescriptions they know the patients history, as given by the patient or through previous contact.

 

WELLBUTRIN XL is not for everyone. There is a risk of seizure with WELLBUTRIN XL which increases with higher doses. Taking more than 450 mg/day increases the chance of serious side effects. Don’t use it if you’ve had a seizure or eating disorder, or if you abruptly stop using alcohol or sedatives. Don’t take with MAOIs, or medicines that contain bupropion. When used with a nicotine patch or alone, there is a risk of increased blood pressure, sometimes severe. To reduce risk of serious side effects, tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. Other side effects may include weight loss, dry mouth, nausea, difficulty sleeping, dizziness, or sore throat.

 

WELLBUTRIN XL is approved only for adults 18 years and over. In some children and teens, antidepressants increase suicidal thoughts or actions. Whether or not you are taking antidepressants, you or your family should call the doctor right away if you have worsening depression, thoughts of suicide, or sudden or severe changes in mood or behavior, especially at the beginning of treatment or after a change in dose (see Patient Information: What is important information I should know and share with my family about taking antidepressants?).

 

Pharmacies by law give the all this information at the time of prescription pick up either orally or in written form, if Sage chose not to read it he is as guilty as his doctor. If he took over 450mg/day, if he has had any of the warnings is unknown by us and possibly unknown by his doctor which would give him no reason not to put him on this medication. Liver and kidney problems could be undiagnosed. The warnings were there and are there so the doctor doesn't have to go through a speech for every patient for every medication. You think the waiting line is bad at the doctor's office now?

[Amethyst]

So I suppose you know everything that he told his doctor? You know the results but not the story beforehand and neither do I. When doctors write prescriptions they know the patients history, as given by the patient or through previous contact.

 

My god. I'm trying to give the guy a bit of emotional support when he needs it. What is your problem? I'm certainly not playing doctor but if something was making you seriously considering KILLING YOURSELF, wouldn't you stop doing whatever that something was? Don't you think that's logical? He SAID he was going to call his doctor anyway. Sheesh. You are acting like a really big jerk, you know. I have never, ever assumed I KNEW EVERYTHING. Please look before you leap down someone's throat when they are trying to help and be supportive of someone else.

 

[Amethyst]

It doesn't matter what the patient told the doctor, IMO doctors have the RESPONSIBILITY to inform patients of all their options, not just their personal favorite.

 

Ramen to that. They take an oath not to harm anyone. Harm also includes giving out the wrong information, or even none at all where the right information is needed.

 

I'm not saying all medicine is bad or all doctors are bad. Not by any means. But one thing I am hearing a lot from my friends and family is that you can't assume that doctors will tell you everything. They're human beings too, and they also don't know everything, just as the average person doesn't. Doctors do know more because of their education, but they are not gods. So you have to ask lots and lots of questions, and even do your own research sometimes. We're all human. Nobody is perfect, myself included.

 

However, as strongly affected as I was by my friends' suicides (especially my housemate's because of the manner of it -- he set the townhome on fire at 5-ish am the Sunday before Christmas a few years ago, and I woke up because the window broke due to the air pressure change -- I could have easily died too), I take people very seriously when they say they are considering it. With my housemate, there were no signs except on the last day, and everyone has bad days. But saying you're contemplating it is a big huge warning sign.

 

I really hope that Sage doesn't do it, and that he gets whatever help he needs.

[chefranden]

WELLBUTRIN Don't you just love the names they give these things. And I love the way they show happy bouncy people as they list the side effects. "Your toes will fall off." "Your left eye may explode."

 

Anyway Sage. These drugs are a matter of trial and error to figure out which one will work for which person with tolerable side effects. And since it takes 2 weeks or so to judge its effect getting on one that works can be hell. It took the VA three tries for me. The wonders of Science.

[pandora]

JGJ,

 

Not to be a bitch here...but...

 

In America, Doctors make a commission off of drug prescriptions. Drugs have gotten so specialized that most doctors just accept the sales information the drug company gives them. Most doctors don't know a LOT of things about most drugs they prescribe. They may know what the drug company gives them, but again, how forthright do you expect the drug company to be?

 

 

 

Exactly. Except in Indiana, they are prohibited by law from receiving kickbacks for prescribing drugs that the drug reps promote. They can receive pens, free lunches, "education seminars" on cruise boats, and fancy dinners, but no cash directly.

 

The problem that I see is that most docs believe they are being impartial when it comes to decided which drugs to prescribe. They just don't realize how the drug reps literature affects them subconsciously. In fact, a study was recently published (link below) that said 9/10 articles funded by drug companies conclude that the drug company's drug is better than the rest. This is not really a surprise that these are the articles that the drug reps use, but the catcher is that the study found that many journals don't thoroughly investigate the funding of the studies published. Not only are these studies being promoted by drug reps, but some reputable journals also unknowingly publish them.... somehow they are getting past the peer review process. Also, the study said that most doctors do not turn to national non-profit groups (such as the JNC-7) for their information on which treatments are standard and currently deemed most effective... they rely on drug reps not because they get bribed, but because it is convenient. Most docs don't care to look at national standards of care or evidence based medicine or retroactive meta-analysis studies.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6041101478.html

 

 

Anyway, I hope you find a drug that is more effective for you. Are you in intensive counseling right now? It is recommended that all depressed patients receive counseling AT LEAST until the drug takes effect. That can be up to two months. With bupropion, it is supposedly a lot quicker--- two to three weeks. Buproprion works on norepinephrine and dopamine, so perhaps you should suggest trying a different medication... such as an SSRI (which primarily work on seratonin and sometimes norepi). They might not affect you the same way. Either way, DO NOT stop taking it yet, as abruptly stopping antidepressants can exacerbate your depression... do it gradually and only after you have told you doctor that you don't want to take this particular drug (so he can tell you how to decrease your dose). If you've already had an SSRI and it didn't work, try Effexor. That one works for many patients refractory to the other antidepressants.

 

Personally, Wellbutrin was the drug that helped me out of my depression.... but the role of neurotransmitters in depression is poorly understood... it is likely that many things affect one's mood and state of mind, and this might vary from person to person.

 

Don't take St. John's Wort with an Rx antidepressant, either... espeically SSRIs (like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil).

 

Anyway, go talk to your doc. Things will get better eventually.... I was switched from drug to drug for 1.5 years before I found something effective. Most patients naturally cycle out of depression in six months, others a few years.... very few people are chronically depressed for more than a few years at a time. *hugs*

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with the incredibly sucky mental healthcare system in this country... it SUCKS!!! I've been there. Prejudices still abound, even within the profession, and horribly deficient care is the norm. Be proactive and stick up for yourself (which I know is hard to do when you are depressed).

[Japedo]

I was on Paxil CR for Panic disorder. (which outside of weight gain, it helped me immensely) They had temporarily taken it off the market and the Dr took that opportunity to put me on Wellbutrin (For reasons that on paxil I religiously gained apppox. 10 lbs a month) forget it, I became a raving lunatic and dangerous rage is the only word I can describe how it made me feel. I scared myself and those around me.

 

I'm relived to say I'm not on anything right now. However I'd call the Dr ASAP and tell them you want off it and you need to try something else. If its making you feel worse, its clearly not the right choice.

[JGJ@ReligionisBullshit]

I've also heard that taking some medications and some herbal remedies like St. John's Wart will give you the symptoms you were trying to avoid if your symptoms were actually psychosomatic.

 

St. John's Wart is also good for improving memory but if you didn't actually have a memory problem before, you will now. (Which might be why they say it is good for depression, you can't remember what you were depressed about.)

 

Topomax is an anti-seizure medication that makes you stupid so they call it Dope-a-max and may cause seizures if you didn't have them before, but it is commonly given out for migraines.

[RoyBatty]

Sage: just saw this article today, and when I read your rant, thought you might be interested. Maybe there's some way of getting the preferred drug list from Oregon online somewhere. Maybe some research to supplement info from your doctor wouldn't hurt. I know a lot of people that don't react well to Wellbutrin (arh, arh). Sorry to hear you're hurting.

 

oops, here's the link: http://www.slate.com/id/2140187/

[The Sage Nabooru]

I remember trying St. John's Wort once. I must've had some kind of bad interaction with it because it did make me feel worse.

 

Now my doctor has called me back, and I'm a bit calmer. He says I should stop taking it for 4-5 days, see what happens, then he might write me a perscription for Remerol. I'm actually kind of confused as to whether or not I'm still getting used to the Wellbutrin. Maybe I am. I don't know. All I do know is that I'm going on a vacation in three weeks, and God knows I don't want to go on it in a lousy mood.

[Amethyst]

Glad you're feeling a little better. Hope everything works out.

[Karl-777]

I use Essential Oil of Lavender......I put 2 drops on the pad of my Tisserand Aroma Therapy unit next to my bed before I go to sleep.

 

I breath the vapor in all night. In the morning I'm mister mellow.

 

It's Natural and it works for me. If you decide to try Essential Oils, be sure to study up on the subject first, and don't use in conjunction with any man-made "remedies".

 

That's my 2¢ worth.

 

K

[♦ nivek ♦]

Sage,

 

Tough row to hoe with the chemical shit.

 

No Easy Answers on this one, as trying to diagnose someone's problems over the 'net is as easy as brane sturgeonry or blind air traffic control..

 

Can be done, but results aint'a pretty.

 

Going to suspect that more mild doses and longer times to adjust to them will be ticket for whatever *dope* your Doc drops on you.

 

I deal with a ton of internal chemical imbalances with the things diabeties does to me. Some days I can function, other days am in a daze. Nothing seems predicable and *normal*.

 

Been on several courses of experimental drugs, volunteer to test quite a few, and have been on several for short to long term of assorted *crazy pills*.

 

Best advise I can give is give them time to adjust, avoid the triggers taht piss you off, and try best you can to relax when you have time to do so.

 

"Slow down" Got rest of life to be stressed out, neurotic and bat_shit_krazy.

 

Don't let youth and this fun part of life pass you by..

 

kL

[Jose]

I took Wellbutrin to help me stop smoking a couple of years ago.

 

It basically turned me into a girl. I would watch sad movies and cry, I'd get all emotional about petty shit, and other stuff that I didn't really want going on.

 

The bad thing is, once you're on it, you need to wean off, not stop all at once. If your doctor told you to stop cold-turkey, then he doesn't know about the side effects of stopping.

 

You can look forward to:

 

Electric shock sensations

Reduced appetite

Mood swings

Suicidal thoughts

Insomnia

Extreme Constipation

Hand Tremors

 

and those are just the ones that I experienced.

 

Have fun!

[godlessgrrl]

Oh my fucking gawd, I took SickButrin too... and I fucking HATED it.

 

I mostly had neurological problems when I took it. Dropping things, tripping over stuff, I got clumsy, my hands shook, I had speech and memory problems... plus it spun me up so that I was wired all the time.

 

I HATE that fucking drug.

 

And I hate the stupid Meds Roulette game you gotta go through. I got diagnosed with clinical depression when I was 19 and I've spent the better part of the past 14 years bouncing from one drug to another, one dosage to another, trying to find something that'll keep the suicidal edge off long enough without giving me major hugeass side effects. I've been on Parnate, Effexor, Zoloft, SickButrin, um... Prozac, BuSpar, Serzone... I think that's it, but I don't really remember. After all this time I'm doing pretty well on a very small dose (50mg/day) of Zoloft, but I realize that it could stop working at any time.

 

Fuck. The only advice I have is, be stubborn about finding a med at the right dose that will actually help. You don't have to tolerate extreme side effects and you don't have to take any med that makes you feel worse than you already do. If your doc won't work with you, FIRE HIS ASS. The doctor works for YOU, not the other way around.

 

And another thing I'd say is, if something works and helps you, use it. No matter what it is. I mean if Paxil helps at X dosage, great. Use it. If St. John's Wort helps, great. If therapy helps, great. If a cig at bedtime prevents you from opening an artery, dude - smoke that fucker. Whatever keeps you alive, whatever gets you through the night. I mean I don't know exactly how severe a problem you have but if there's *any* suicidal tendencies, from one who's been there: whatever keeps you alive is just fine.

 

Dude. And don't let jackass doctors jerk you around. They're not in your head.

 

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Poonis]

I was prescribed celexa a few years ago for depression. I took it for a week and said "to hell with this" because I didn't want to fund big pharma.

 

I realized my depression was the result of family issues and how I lived my life around it. My depression, in the end, was not the result of a lack of drugs. Although my doctor disagreed, it has been five years that I've been off them and I haven't felt depressed like that since.

[Padreko]

I've never been on antidepressents before but my spouse has. He assures me that they're only for trying to help you get the chemical imbalances in your head back on track.

 

My advice is GET A HOBBIE, yoga, capoeira, bonsai, computer games, batmittan, painting something that you enjoy that helps to take your mind off of the things that bring you down. Thats probably the best medicine you can take. Surround yourself with friends and people who love you and have fun with them OFTEN.

 

Make sure that you're having sex regularly! (sex is quite theraputic - hehehe)

 

I generally laugh at things that get me down, bills(hard to do, but say stuff like, do you want my arm with that?), money(stupidest thing ever invented), grades(yesterday, the organic chemistry exam grading curve was A >60, B 60-30, C<30 out of 100 points) and I couldn't help but laugh at how horrible that was.

 

I'm Invincible as long as I'm alive - sayeth the John Mayer