kellyb Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I went through a long "liberal Christian" phase, so it's been a while since I though gays were evil and premarital sex was wrong... (I was raised fundy, turned liberal, then became sorta pentecostal after a deep depression, then liberal...now atheist and done). Most of my morality is still basically "Jesus style" as I interpreted "the real Jesus" to be in my most liberal phases. What morals of Christianity have you rejected now? I really mean, the ones that you held most dear, not the theological technicalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 What morals of Christianity have you rejected now? The hatred and ridicule of those who don't believe the way I do. Of course, my scope is much more narrow now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Eye for an eye. Black and white absolutist morality (the world lives in shades of grey). Using god's name in vane. Thoughts equal crime. To name but a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunraveler Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 i have rejected absolute moralism in exchange for relative moralism. we are the products of our culture, upbringing, education, socio-political and religious influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomniac Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I've stopped believing in universal justice/fairness and that releases me from obligations to behave for purely the sake of others, if that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 1.) Homosexuality being a sin 2.) Masterbation 3.) Absolute evil(there is no such thing as absolute good and evil. Everything varies to some degree or another....Absolutes only exist in fairy tales) 4.) Thinking being sin 5.) premarital sex(if you love the person why in the heck should a piece of paper matter?) Those are just a few, but there are probably more. I still hold true to many of the teachings of Jesus...Such as: love thy neighbor, The Truth will set you free, and various other things. Those lessons can go for anyone...I think Jesus was a great man, but he got Paul Bunyanized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyb Posted April 20, 2006 Author Share Posted April 20, 2006 i have rejected absolute moralism in exchange for relative moralism. we are the products of our culture, upbringing, education, socio-political and religious influence. So what do you think about issues like female genital mutilation in cultures where it is their norm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Somewhat like the unraveler I'm a relative moralist so when I gave up Christian morals I gave up the belief that morality comes from Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Geesh, where do I begin? Paganism is a sin I've rejected, having become one myself :fedvil: Pretty much all of the "Seven Deadly Sins" I've rejected. Absolute morality, masturbation, fornication - just about all of the sexual vices I've realized are not vices at all. Hatred of others who are not of the same religion, etc, as I am is another. Pretty much all of the self-righteous, petty, phony moral precepts I've rejected about Xianity. There's really nothing redeeming about it, except the Golden Rule (which isn't unique to Xianity by a longshot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I rejected the hell doctrine because I realized how immoral it really was. Most Christians never do. Okay, I never really "held it dear"... more like lived in fear of it. I no longer consider sex before marriage immoral or any kind of sex immoral as long as it is consenual and neither partner is a child. I don't consider swearing immoral, though it annoys me when people swear because they're uncreative and can't think of another word. I also don't consider judging people's thoughts wrong, because it is their actions that speak the loudest and only by their actions can you truly see who people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Yes - I've rejected that a thought can be as bad as an evil action, and that birth control and gay rights are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkenmoon Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 i have rejected absolute moralism in exchange for relative moralism. we are the products of our culture, upbringing, education, socio-political and religious influence. So what do you think about issues like female genital mutilation in cultures where it is their norm? I think your right end where my nose begins. These things are often done without the consent of the child in question and aren't done even in a clean proper sterile way. They are forcing this mutilation on this CHILD. Therefore I believe it is wrong. Now, if an adult woman freely chose to do that to herself, then who am I to judge that anymore then someone getting their clit pierced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyb Posted April 20, 2006 Author Share Posted April 20, 2006 i have rejected absolute moralism in exchange for relative moralism. we are the products of our culture, upbringing, education, socio-political and religious influence. So what do you think about issues like female genital mutilation in cultures where it is their norm? I think your right end where my nose begins. These things are often done without the consent of the child in question and aren't done even in a clean proper sterile way. They are forcing this mutilation on this CHILD. Therefore I believe it is wrong. Now, if an adult woman freely chose to do that to herself, then who am I to judge that anymore then someone getting their clit pierced. So you do believe there are absolute morals...like not sexually mutilating children? See, I believe that some morality is relative and subjective, but some stuff, like the above example, is absolute. Where that "absoluteness" comes from, I don't know...seems like common sense to me. Actually, even in the places where they do stuff like that, I think they just consider it a "necessary evil" from what I've seen and read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkenmoon Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 So you do believe there are absolute morals...like not sexually mutilating children? See, I believe that some morality is relative and subjective, but some stuff, like the above example, is absolute. Where that "absoluteness" comes from, I don't know...seems like common sense to me. Actually, even in the places where they do stuff like that, I think they just consider it a "necessary evil" from what I've seen and read. There are some absolute morals... but there is also the point that my body belongs to me... that kid's body belongs to them... get your hands off. You want to mutilate yourself... here's a rusty razor... go for it... but keep your hands off others... especially poor defenseless kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkenmoon Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I went through a long "liberal Christian" phase, so it's been a while since I though gays were evil and premarital sex was wrong... (I was raised fundy, turned liberal, then became sorta pentecostal after a deep depression, then liberal...now atheist and done). Most of my morality is still basically "Jesus style" as I interpreted "the real Jesus" to be in my most liberal phases. What morals of Christianity have you rejected now? I really mean, the ones that you held most dear, not the theological technicalities. To properly answer the question in the original post... I let go of: having unhealthy feelings about my own sexual feelings, masturbation, sex, porn, etc. the idea you need to proselytize the idea you even need to have some mythical god the idea you have to have it all figured out... all the answers... all your t's crossed and i's dotted. some lame "spiritual leadership" that you can never be good enough thought crime the idea that I can't love myself or take care of myself I've accepted that I can be who I am... I don't have to become some cookie cutter close stepford wife perfect weirdo. Boy does it feel good to get rid of that baggage. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyb Posted April 20, 2006 Author Share Posted April 20, 2006 Boy does it feel good to get rid of that baggage. =) Ramen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 My morality hasn't really changed, except I find it easier to actually be a decent person now that I simply want to. As has been mentioned before, most of the 'good stuff' of the bible (don't steal, don't lie, love your neighbor) is pretty basic, universal morality. So my morals haven't really changed. But since discovering xtianity is so much monkey's bathwater, I actually enjoy being moral. It's nice to be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirrti Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Gave up the belief that pre-marital sex is wrong..... I no longer pray every night that I stop doing the "big M"....that is unless the "big M" is marriage I can choose mates of any religion rather than be restricted to dating Christians. (Yeah right, like I'll ever date another Christian again..... ) Don't have this dread of being thrown in hell..... Study other religions and occult practices without guilt. Don't separate believers from non-believers..... No longer think people become evil just because they don't believe in god. No longer think of myself as a mistake and needing to be changed to get "unconditional" love. No longer believe such a thing as "spirit lead", "spirit-bred", "spirit filled"(unless the "spirits" are Jack Daniels), and "spirit-controlled". Instead of looking for supernatural "signs", make major decisions based on own reasoning. Plan on not wearing a top when I get a chance to go to a topless beach....and fundy friends can't stop me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunNSand4me Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 My morality hasn't really changed ... most of the 'good stuff' of the bible (don't steal, don't lie, love your neighbor) is pretty basic, universal morality. So my morals haven't really changed. I'm with you, AGF. Even as a Christian, I was never convinced cetain practices/thoughts were immoral just because the bible said so. I guess I've always be a relativist vs. an absolutist (some would say, then, that I wasn't a Real Christian, but I was indeed. I accepted the trinity, the virgin birth, the redemptive death that saved my soul, the resurrection, etc.) IMO, anyone who doesn't think themself partly relativist is not being truthful. I guess I accepted the bible as god's truth once upon a time because even though some of the reasoning is screwed up (sex before marriage is morally bad), there are positives from heading SOME teachings. The problem is that it doesn't all connect. I teach students about the potential health and emotional risks of having sex with more than one partner (all factual absolutes); the morality of the issue is irrelavent and is relative to one's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 It isn't what I do as far as my morality that has changed, but how I view others. Like what was said on here, we are products of our nurturing, environment, genetics, culture, etc. If an animal developed behavior problems due to rejection of the mother, abuse, and or genetics it's easily understood. However, because of religion, it's a persons own fault for not being able to control their behavior no matter what kind of conditions they have had to endure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 There are some absolute morals... but there is also the point that my body belongs to me... that kid's body belongs to them... get your hands off. You want to mutilate yourself... here's a rusty razor... go for it... but keep your hands off others... especially poor defenseless kids. There are no absolute morals. If you look hard enough you can find an exception to every rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agent Ytnok Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 All of the above, plus notions about male supriority over females. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunNSand4me Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 There are some absolute morals... but there is also the point that my body belongs to me... that kid's body belongs to them... get your hands off. You want to mutilate yourself... here's a rusty razor... go for it... but keep your hands off others... especially poor defenseless kids. There are no absolute morals. If you look hard enough you can find an exception to every rule. Precisely! I recall a hypothetical question a pastor asked me a few years ago: "If your family was starving after you'd already worked and begged for food, would it be okay to steal food?" I said that although it would still be illegal, I'd see nothing morally wrong with me or someone else stealing food in that situation. If my kid's starving and I can help him, I'm going to help him whether it's morally right or wrong. I understand the fundies' position ... if you allow for that, than what next? I just don't agree with it. And I don't buy for a second that they'd be so absolute given a certain set of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agent Ytnok Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 There are some absolute morals... but there is also the point that my body belongs to me... that kid's body belongs to them... get your hands off. You want to mutilate yourself... here's a rusty razor... go for it... but keep your hands off others... especially poor defenseless kids. There are no absolute morals. If you look hard enough you can find an exception to every rule. The "absolute" question is actually a semantic one. Does absolute mean "without specific exception" or "without general exception". For example, I have a hard time finding an exception to the rule "don't have sex with 8-year olds" or the position that "the obliteration of the earth's ecosystem is bad". Similarly, rules against killing are generally absolute though we allow other moral rules to supercede (self-preservation being the most common). I like to say that absolutes exist, but when two absolutes meet, they cancel each other out and one or both may be violated. For example, it may be okay to have sex with an 8 year old if it saves the human race from alien annihalation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunNSand4me Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 i have rejected absolute moralism in exchange for relative moralism. we are the products of our culture, upbringing, education, socio-political and religious influence. So what do you think about issues like female genital mutilation in cultures where it is their norm? Or how about male genital mutilation (circumcision) in cultures where it's their norm (USA)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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