garrisonjj Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 It is still my opinion that catholic mind control is the least harmful. You go to a mindless, rote mass, hear a boring sermon, sacraments, sing and go home forgetting it all as you leave the sidewalk! For sensitive people as myself who took it seriously, it probably took years off my life through worry and anxiety over not being pleasing to god. Now,,,since I am actively ridding myself of it I begin to feel better daily. Not worrying about fucking cursing or fucking impure thoughts or eating meat on friday or countless other practices to keep you in line. I believe protestant fundies are way more harmful. Faith healing ,begging for money, knocking at doors,,,they make me fuckin sick. Catholics do countless acts of good will in the community. Fundies are all just disgruntled catholics anyway! I do agree absolutely whole heartedly with the catholic church's position on abortion. I believe this is murder and a reprehensible act in all ,all cases except to save the life of the mother. Sorry,,,this is what I believe from a person who is now agnostic and quickly becoming an atheist. I still have my personal standards. Thanks, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 There is a serious note of truth to that, Gary. I was raised Catholic, and indeed it's much easier to exchange the Mass and the sacraments for the rituals and celebrations of any Heathen religion, or for non-belief or whatever. It, to me, seems like for the most part that hardcore Babble-believing Protties have the worst time getting out of their cult since the Babble is used more extensively there. Exchanging one ritual and religion for another is rather easy - deprogramming oneself from extensive religious brainwashing with a holy book used to back up every bit of it is quite another. Even when I made the leap from fundy Protestantism to fundy Catholicism, I had to do a lot of work to find reasons to disbelieve everything I was taught as a Prottie. That sect's fundyism is very hard to deprogram. Catholicism has it's problems, too. Guilt and such are rampant problems with many ex-catholics, but overall I think those who were raised in fundy Prottie backgrounds have it worse. I tend to feel worse for people who are raised hardcore Protestant than those raised strictly Catholic. All the Catholic would get is beaten over the head with customs - the fundy Prottie gets beaten over the head with the Babble, one of the worst inventions of human history. And it's OK that you have your own mind on abortion. Being 100% pro-abortion isn't a requirement for this board or for human life. Using your own mind and coming to your own conclusions is what's important. Opposing it for personal is a very different thing than doing so just because your church says so. Anyone who insists you have to tow a certain party line still doesn't get it - freedom of thought is the deal here. Make up your own mind and you'll always be happier with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunNSand4me Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 In my experience of being Catholic turned Protestant turned non-believer, I have to agree with you, Gary. The customs involved in Catholic mass and sacrements are so ritualistic that for many they become non-personal, thus the Protestant's opposition to it in the first place. Also, there can't be too much mind control when bingo and beer fundraisers can be found at many Catholic parishes. Believe me, it was hard for this Catholic-raised party girl to ever really fit in with the oh-so-pure and uptight Protestants. Just wasn't gonna happen. At least Catholics know how to kick back and have a good time, in my experience, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyb Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Most Catholics I know haven't endured nearly the in-depth brainwashing me and my fundy friends did. Most Catholics seem to be allowed to view the church's technicalities as a little goofy if they want, but in fundyism, if you question, it's the devil getting in your head. So you end up brainwashing yourself constantly to stave off the satanic forces trying to get at you through the media, academia, etc. And when you can come up with some sort of method that works, and you share it with your fundy friends, you get bonus points for being so ultra-super-spiritual. Then you feel good, which is the holy spirit filling your heart with gawd's gladness, confirming that the self-brainwashing process was making Jesus happy. Weird...I can't believe I used to be like that... Even my "recovering Catholic" friends go "jesus!" when I describe this stuff to them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookums Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I thought the same thing about Cath's......harmless, fairly layed back...smoking a cig and enjoying a scotch on the rocks.... but I've recently come across a couple of complete whackjobs.....1 such utter twit is going around the web spreading that silly 'rumor' that the holocaust didn't happen....and 2 other's evangelisin' their little hearts out...something I didn't thinking caths were into... Nah...methinks......ALL are crackpots....all religions... are as bad in some way as the other....no point comparing apples with apples........... eh!...that's what I recon anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I know Catholics that are every bit as fundy as Protestant fundies. They crusade against Halloween, think Harry Potter is the devil, speak in tongues, and home school their kids, among other things. About the only thing they lack in the fundy dept. is forbidding the women to cut their hair and making them wear those creepy long jean skirts. But just give 'em some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 It is still my opinion that catholic mind control is the least harmful. You go to a mindless, rote mass, hear a boring sermon, sacraments, sing and go home forgetting it all as you leave the sidewalk! Lots of people say that about Protestants too, but it depends. I was raised Mo. Synod Lutheran, which is essentially Catholicism-lite, and while there were plenty of Lutherans who did that, my mother did not. Also, I had to attend a Lutheran school where I got brainwashed every day. Nor did my mother EVER allow me to forget that I was going to hell or that I wasn't good enough for her. I'm sure there are Catholic parents who do the same thing. Also, any form of brainwashing is harmful. It makes you believe things that aren't true, even if you're not forced to dwell on those things 24/7. Don't forget, Catholicisim, like the Protestants except for the most liberal of Protestant denominations, teaches that being born gay is evil. Brainwashing people to hate others is harmful because hate leads to violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 having been raised catholic for 25 years before my deconversion, i would also have to agree that for the most part, catholics are laid back. although the heads of the catholic church [bishops, popes, etc.] are the ones that say being gay is evil, say no to abortion, blah blah blah, for the most part... the followers and priests seem more tolerant than other denominations. they dont follow the bible literally. most dont even really read it. my girlfriend is christian. the first time i went to church with her, i was shocked. everyone brought their own bible and would turn to the passage the pastor was reading. i wasnt accustomed to this cause us catholics didnt do that. i was also shocked that every sermon they preached was about how jesus died for us... believe in jesus... if anyone questions the bible it's because of satan... in my catholic church, our priests would preach about how we should continually grow as a person, be tolerant of others, never judge anyone period, be good to your family, friends, and strangers.... at least as a catholic, again things were more laid back. i know there are devout/fundy catholics, but generally everyone was more tolerant. people didnt worry or feel guilty about sin. nobody had a problem or even disputed evolution. nobody took the bible literally. more than anything, it felt like everyone in my church were deists who just took part in weekly rituals. i think this is why my deconversion was so easy. side note: i think the census map of religious denominations in the other thread is interesting. the catholics are listed in the more liberal states, while baptists are in the more conservative states.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Mystica Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It is still my opinion that catholic mind control is the least harmful. I wholeheartedly disagree. The Catholic Church has emotionally scarred me to an immense extent. I believe protestant fundies are way more harmful. Faith healing ,begging for money, knocking at doors,,,they make me fuckin sick. Catholics do countless acts of good will in the community. Fundies are all just disgruntled catholics anyway! Not all "protestant fundies" are like this. I have a protestant friend to whom I once revealed that I may need a "break" from Christianity (she doesn't know I lost my faith). She's a tad "fundified". Know what her response was? "At least you're being honest." On the other hand, the Catholics in my life (namely, my family) are totally judgmental and cruel towards unbelievers. I do agree absolutely whole heartedly with the catholic church's position on abortion. I believe this is murder and a reprehensible act in all ,all cases except to save the life of the mother. Sorry,,,this is what I believe from a person who is now agnostic and quickly becoming an atheist. I still have my personal standards. Thanks, Gary I do, too. Like Varokhar said, you don't have to be 100% pro-abortion to post here. I'm pro-life for non-religious reasons (though I sometimes wonder if my definition of pro-life is different from the Church's. Still trying to figure that out). And guess what? I still hold other Christian morals, too (though some have changed). Agreeing with the Church on certain things does *not* make you a Catholic. There, it's all or nothing. And it is precisely that sort of thinking that makes me believe that Catholics aren't more tolerant than hardline Protestants (heck, they're *less* tolerant in some areas). Shitty people exist in every group- religious or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrian Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yes, it is true that your average Catholic is much better then your average Evangelical. But is a wide spectrum of belief within Catholicism.... People who call themselves Catholic run the Gamut from defenders of homosexuality on the left to people who want to burn heretics at the stake on the right. (Of course, more conservative Catholics would dispute Catholicism is so broad, they tend to like to claim that they are the only "True Catholics") It helps to think of "Catholicism" as two different religions nominally united. On one hand, you have the "beer and bingo" crowd. This side is far more laid back about doctrine. They are generally more relaxed in their faith. Most of them don't go along with the Church's teaching on birth control, many don't even buy the Church's teaching on the premarital sex. Piety in this group is often expressed by trying to help the needy. And then you have another group which could best be described as the "Ideological Catholics". Probably the most well known group that would fit in here would be Opus Dei, a group that does lovely things such as self-flaggelation and the threatening of people who leave Opus Dei with damnation. Perhaps the best known figure in this group is Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania. This group is generally a lot more knowledgable about Catholicism; they like to study Church History, Catholic Theology and Philosophy, Church Doctrine, Liturgy. They're aware of quotes like what I posted in the other thread, and are alot more likely to favor a government that formally recognizes Catholicism and supports it. They have strong opinions about religion, and religion is the dominating feature in their lives. They are likely to attend to traditional Catholic mass in Latin. They usually accept all of the Church's teachings and believe that most of them are infallible. They will often be able to describe the Church's philsophical and theological reasons for it's teaching. It's this group that is likely to defend past Church atrocities such as mass murder. It's this group that is most active in try to prevent the government funding Stem Cell Research. Unlike the Protestant fundies, this group isn't as likely to be concerned with Evangelizing unbelievers, as much as they are with evangelizing the Beer and Bingo Catholics to their version of Catholicism, and more concerned with converting Conservative Protestants. (In fact, many in this group are converts from Protestantism or Secularism) Within that group, their are two major strands. One, the "neo-traditionalists" or plain "Orthodox Catholics" tends to be more supportive of the current papacy and of JPII's papacy, and is more likely to be ok with Vatican II- they will just a put a more conservative spin on Vatican II's teaching. The other group, the "traditionalists", are more hostile to Vatican II, hostile to the new mass that came about after Vatican II and supportive of the Latin Mass, and are more likely to have deep concerns about the Pope not being conservative enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It is still my opinion that catholic mind control is the least harmful. You go to a mindless, rote mass, hear a boring sermon, sacraments, sing and go home forgetting it all as you leave the sidewalk! Maybe. But this is a bit like saying that syphalis is better than clamidia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It is still my opinion that catholic mind control is the least harmful. You go to a mindless, rote mass, hear a boring sermon, sacraments, sing and go home forgetting it all as you leave the sidewalk! Maybe. But this is a bit like saying that syphalis is better than clamidia. I'm with you, Spammy! The catholics may be more relaxed in certain areas, but they make up for it in other ways. The die-hards are every bit as insane as their proddy counterparts - maybe more so. How 'bout Mel Gibson and his pop? There's some pretty loony catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyb Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Aren't some/many Catholics just sort of "cultural catholics"... kind of like "Jewish by race but not so much by religion"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Aren't some/many Catholics just sort of "cultural catholics"... kind of like "Jewish by race but not so much by religion"? Absolutely! thats my observation. They listen to the church dogma and participate in mass,,,yet they hold their own convictions that are often at odds with the church. This is the norm rather than the exception in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Aren't some/many Catholics just sort of "cultural catholics"... kind of like "Jewish by race but not so much by religion"? Absolutely! thats my observation. They listen to the church dogma and participate in mass,,,yet they hold their own convictions that are often at odds with the church. This is the norm rather than the exception in my area. Very much so. My folks are "cultural Catholics" and so is one of my best friends. They consider themselves Catholic, believe in the basic mythology and cosmology of Catholicism, but ultimately have their own mind about things and are often at odds with Big Momma Church and her various dogmas and teachings. They're like Heathens, except that substitute Catholic cosmolology and rituals for Pagan ones. That, too, is the norm in my area, not the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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