Zeitgeist Debunked? "Are you sure about that?" - John Cena Plus an Introduction and Challenge to Theists and Atheists both Historicist and Mythicst

[Clayton_Veno]

Beginning at the 13:04 mark

 

 

 

 

Hi just wanted to preface that this was an essay I wrote with help from my close freind Michael there was alot of vulgarity and Dark humour (Cuz I myself have a dark humour) in the original draft some of which my sincere apologies is still in this draft me michael did our best to fix as much as we could but unfortunately it can't all be fixed as that would take a very very long time for the both of us I promise it won't happen again and to be alot more professional next time and re edited as much as I could to remain professional My personal view is that Jesus Christ as we have him in the Gospels is not a real historical figure but I have no intentions of disproving Christianity nor making anyone disbelive in Jesus (even if some of my later statements and humor I will admit appears contrary to that) and I have come to the conclusion based on my research That Jesus is a Composite Character whose story comes from Numerous places including Alexander The Great, Julius Caeser, Titus Flavius, Apollonius of Tyanna, (Paul the Apostle) as well as numereous mystery cult gods and Old Testament Characters including Osiris/Horus, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithras, Buddha, Qetzalqoatl, Hercules/Melqart, Asclepius/Serapis, Odin, Perseus and the list goes on.

OT figures include Adam, Archangel Michael, Melkizedek Joshua Joseph (Genesis) Moses Elisha and Elijah.

 

 

 

I want to give a very special thank you to Acharya S/D.M. Murdock, Kenneth Humphries, Timothy Freke Peter Gandy Neil Bosewell of Mythodoxy/Mythicism.net Roger Viklund Joseph Atwill and Francesco Carotta for the following info

 

 

 

 Hi My Name Is Clayton Veno I am An Independent Researcher who is in the works of becoming an independent Scholar or At least a paid researcher of some kind I Love Comic Books, Video Games, Movies among other things and I study the Illuminati Freemasonry Satanism and The Occult As well as Astrotheology and It's relation to Christianity as well as the lack of credible proof for the existence of the Jesus we have in the Gospels I have Autism and Live In Kingston Ontario which is apart of Rainbow Unicorn Land (Canada) I Have a girlfriend named Selena (Like the Moon goddess) and a Mom who struggles with MS (Multiple Sclerosis) who has oddly enough survived 50 Seizures at least 30 of them Grand mal Seizures Dad who divourced with my Mom but eventually several years later Got Back with Her as if nothing happened (Long Story) and a Fat Bastard Pug as my pet lol

So As you may be well aware Zeitgeist was a 2007 movie that in the first part went into the pagan origins of Christianity and It's relation to Sun Worship in the form of Astrotheology I was first introduced to the film back in 2014 and thought it was an impressive movie and agreed with the film and gave me a new perspective on religion....

 

Unfortunately however I was tricked by Christians into thinking the film had been "debunked" particularly by one "The Vigilant Christian" who to make a long story short was basicly a money makeing con artist and lying shill who completely missing the point of the Illuminati and who they really are tried to claim that everything was satanic and illuminati just for the sole purpose of making money to use it for drugs and "ahem" other uses he would claim every popular movie was NWO just because it had a fucking triangle in it or because it potrayed jesus in a way he didnt like or otherwise because it had NWO symbolism in it He also said and did alot of really dumb shit like saying that 500+ people dying in Taiwan was actually a good thing because it was LGBT related and It was "Gods Judgement" (Sickening right?) 

 

 

However the discussion today is supposed to primarily be about ZG I'll get a hell of a lot more into the NWO later and in other topics but for now were focused on Zeitgeist so he made a vid in response to jaclyn glenn that was deleted unfortunately but the vid he responded to luckily is still available in which he made the typical criticisms towards Zeitgeist that I will adress a little later and also said "even Atheists dont agree with it" (which is an appeal to authority fallacy as I will discuss later) and cited "Chris White" who I now know is a con artist and professional liar to as I will show in a vid in a bit as his evidence sadly I didnt do any research to the contrary until 2018 when I stumbled across DM Murdocks works and listened to her side and rebuttles she made to common critiscms of her work and zeitgeist and I fell in love with her works but here is the Jaclyn Glenn Vid he responded to:

  

To be fair however she did make a fool of herself by not provideing any sources to back up the claims she made in her video (that thankfully I will provide here in this discussion) thus this video backfired on her and made her look bad and she recived alot of dislikes on this vid because of it even from Atheotards.

 

 

 

Another example of this same mistake being made comes from a vid I will post here:

The Mistake being made was that he cites Daniel Miessler for all the pagan Jesus paralles he mentions in the vid However Dan ended up removing most of the parallels and the ones he left intact he provided no primary sources for them and had this to say:[ November 2015 ] A number of the facts listed above about mythical beings that pre-dated Jesus are up for debate. Back when I wrote this I took the content to be factual (I was less careful then), but the truth is that there is much discussion around these details. The important thing to capture from that section is that there were popular concepts that predated Jesus by hundreds of years that ended up in his stories as well. You can research the details more deeply if you want; I have removed a couple of points already, and will be cleaning it up more as I have time. I’d currently give that section an 85% accuracy rating. 

 

However these "up for debate" and "careful" arguements Ive heard many times and are quite frankly bullshit because as we will see later these important parallels are indeed real and are not up for debate.... Period! and such contentions as this one are erroneous regardless of weather or not jesus existed and weather Christianity/KRSTIANITY is true or not and as we will see there really is nothing to "be careful" about when it comes to these important parallels aside from maybe over reliance on Graves and Massey. 

 

 

 

Here is some vids concerning the lunacy of TVC:

 

 

 

 

I think you get the point...

 

 

 

And here is Chris White:

 

 

 

 

 

You can go to YT and watch the rest of Truthiracy's video series concerning Chris White

 

 

 

 

Just a few vids showing the dishonesty of this lying disinfo dunce and scam artist Chris White! one of the most popular ZG Critics who made a cottage industry out of smearing and lying about Acharya and her work as well as just being wrong about religious origins in general.

 

 Now as you may Know there are alot of claims and bullshit misinformation and even outright DIS information about the film coming from Mainstream Academia, Christian Apologists (of course) and surprisingly even from many Atheists and Mythicists like Carrier/Errior all of whom have one thing in common.... They have not Studied the film nor any of the primary sources the film derived it's info from and often take criticisms towards the film at Face Value often without questioning or doing there own Research....sometimes even admittedly YIKES! Tammuz the Dank engine.

 

 

"Now we have to be careful with some of these analogies I've made sure I vetted all of these and there's alot more "out there" and I'm sure you've all seen the movie Zeitgeist and some of the misinformation that's been tossed in there we've got to be very very "careful" *WOOO" - Seth/Apophis Andrews and (some drunk video gamer in the back lol) starting at the 33:36 mark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here Is a meme from an atheist that as we will see later is poorly researched which will just further strengthen my point that a lot of atheists have not actually done proper research and thus are not experts and we will fact check this "Atheotard" to see if he himself really fact checked the film or just made biased assumptions off of surface level information.

He also used questionable sources more particularly kingdavid8 and Tekton Apologetics (who actually was responsible for the abduction of DM Murdocks son! )  that are biased in favour of Christianity and who themselves have been exposed and refuted on many occasions by DM Murdock and others. 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some more vids with other non experts concerning these details

 

 

 

Just a video that delibrately strawman's several arguments made in favour of Pagan Jesus parallels and against the existence of a historical JAYZUZ!!! and promotes misinformation about ZG and its sources and completely ignores points or makes counter arguments that have already been adressed by Acharya and that are going to be made here.   

 

 

Poorly researched fictions concerning ZG.1 from Mike Winger's Christian/Xtian Apollo-gist playbook and no doubt from basic encylopeda entries and countless appeal to authority fallacies. among others

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too br fair I actully Like IP and think he is a very well seasoned debater even if more in some areas than others and I would love to debate him about this and his other Jesus Vs Videos....

 

Speaking of Jesus Vs videos here is one right here!

 

And "another one!" DJ Kahlid

 

 

and lastly before we get into the meat of the discussion:

 

 

Lastly a biased mainstream and rather dishonest examination of mithraism with false and incincere claims many of which are about none of the parallels between mithras and jesus being true and others being false miscoceptions about mithraic origins both of such claims being untenable and which i will not only debunk with primary sources when i get to the subject of Mithraism in this very discussion but can even be debunked right now by watching the following 2 videos:

 

 

 

Thanx to Ken Humphries

 

 

And as a bonus in the meantime https://stellarhousepublishing.com/mithra/

 

 

Today I am going to address some of the most Popular criticisms of the film and respond to them with Primary Sources and the works of many Highly Credentialed Authorities in relevant fields. Now a Very Special Thanks to D M Murdock/Marduk Who sadly passed away on Dec 25th 2015 for these citations but now I want to make something perfectly Clear and that is the fact that my intent Is NOT to disprove Christianity neither is my intent to make anyone disbelieve a historical Jeezus nor to force one to agree with what I am about to present in concerns to the film Zeitgeist itself. I am simply relaying why I love and enjoy mythology so much and the information/evidence Is for the reader to decide for themselves weather they agree with it or not... 

 

Now I'm going to be pulling alot of info from entire chapters from Christ In Egypt The Horus-Jesus Connection and The Companion Guide to Zeitgeist part 1 by Acharya S / D.M. Murdock but not all so you'll have to support Stellar House Publishing and buy CIE to get the rest yer selvs  So again a Very Special Thank You to Ms. Murdock for this huge body of work I'm about to pull loads of important info from and for bringing this largely ignored esoteric scholarship to the surface all credit goes to her....R.I.P. You will be missed Acharya 

 

To bad we have alot of parrots that just regurgitate critisisms of her work without studieing first.

 

Listening to a tune from Devilman Crybaby my favorite anime and the greatest comic book/ manga series ever made! at least in my opinion I'll put the trailer for those interested it's on Netflix but be warned it's very graphic (not the trailer though)

 

 

 

Now without further adeiu let's begin with hurting Religious and Historicist fee fees shall we! I'm Just teasing lol! Obviously it should go without saying that isn't my intent. Im just expressing my conclusion so we can have a civil debate about the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Horus wasn't a Sun God he was The Sky God RA Was The Sun God!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

PROOF THAT HORUS WAS A SUN GOD, FROM PRIMARY SOURCES AND THE WORKS OF HIGHLY CREDENTIALED AUTHORITIES

As is the case with many gods in other parts of the world, several Egyptian gods (and goddesses) possess solar attributes, essentially making them sun gods. These Egyptian sun gods included not only the commonly known Ra or Re, but also Osiris and Horus, among others. This fact of Horus as a sun god was confirmed five centuries before the common era by the Greek historian Herodotus (2.144, 156), when he equated Osiris with the Greek god Dionysus and Horus with the Greek sun god Apollo: “In Egyptian, Apollo is Horus, Demeter is Isis, Artemis is Bubastis….”

In the first century BCE, the Greek writer Diodorus Siculus described Osiris as the sun, while his sister-wife, Isis, is the moon:

 

Now when the ancient Egyptians, awestruck and wondering, turned their eyes to the heavens, they concluded that two gods, the sun and the moon, were primeval and eternal: they called the former Osiris, the latter Isis….

The ancient writer Porphyry (c. 235-c. 305 AD/CE) related (according to early Catholic Church father/historian Eusebius):

 

But the fiery power of [the sun’s] revolving and circling motion whereby he ripens the crops, is called Dionysus… And whereas he revolves round the cosmical seasons [Grk. horas] and is the maker of “times and tides,” the sun is on this account called Horus.

In my book Suns of God (112), I discuss the equation of Horus with Apollo and the sun by ancient writer Macrobius (4th cent. AD/CE):

 

The newborn sun god about whom he writes is Horus, whom Macrobius equates with Dionysus. Both Dionysus and Apollo are identified with Horus, as is further evidence by the fact that Apollo and Horus were represented by the hawk. Macrobius too equates Apollo with Horus…

As concerns primary sources, in Christ in Egypt (47), I write (47):

 

In ancient Egyptian writings such as the Pyramid Texts, in which he is called the “Lord of the Sky,” along with other solar epithets such as “He Whose Face is Seen,” “He Whose Hair is Parted,” and “He Whose Two Plumes are Long,” Horus’s function as a sun god or aspect of the sun is repeatedly emphasized, although this singularly pertinent fact is seldom found in encyclopedias and textbooks, leaving us to wonder why he would be thus diminished. In the Coffin Texts as well is Horus’s role as (morning) sun god made clear, such as in the following elegantly rendered scripture from CT [Coffin Text] Sp. 255:

“…I will appear as Horus who ascends in gold from upon the lips of the horizon…”

In CT Sp. 326, Horus is even called “Lord of the sunlight.”

Concerning the nature of certain Egyptian gods, Dr. James P. Allen, Curator of Egyptian Art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, remarks:

 

…Ruling over the universe by day, the Sun was identified with Horus, the god of kingship; at sunset he was seen as Atum, the oldest of all gods. The Sun’s daily movement through the sky was viewed as a journey from birth to death, and his rebirth at dawn was made possible through Osiris, the force of new life… …In the middle of the night the Sun merged with Osiris’s body; through this union, the Sun received the power of new life while Osiris was reborn in the Sun.

As we can see, these various gods are often interchangeable, and their attributes and stories may overlap. As stated by Egyptologist Dr. Erik Hornung:

 

Many Egyptian gods can be the sun god, especially Re, Atum, Amun, and manifestations of Horus. Even Osiris appears as the night form of the sun god in the New Kingdom. It is often not defined which particular sun god is meant in a given instance.

In this regard, I also relate in CIE (45):

 

…Horus of the Horizon or Horakhty is a solar deity and the morning sun, part of the combined Re-Horakhty, whose name Egyptologist Dr. Rudolf Anthes renders, “Re, the heavenly Horus of the horizon in which he appears as the sun..” As Egyptologist Sir Dr. Gaston Maspero remarks:

 

Horus the Sun, and Ra, the Sun-God of Heliopolis, had so permeated each other that none could say where the one began and the other ended…

Once more, Maspero says:

 

When the celestial Horus was confounded with Ra, and became the sun…he naturally also became the sun of the two horizons, the sun by day, and the sun by night.

 

Egyptologist Dr. Allen further discusses Horus’s solar attributes:

 

Horus was the power of kingship. To the Egyptians this was as much a force of nature as those embodied in the other gods. It was manifest in two natural phenomena: the sun, the most powerful force in nature; and the pharaoh, the most powerful force in human society. Horus’s role as the king of nature is probably the origin of his name: hrw seems to mean “the one above” or “the one far off”… This is apparently a reference to the sun, which is “above” and “far off” in the sky, like the falcon with which Horus is regularly associated…

Illustrating certain motifs including the sun god’s movement through the night and day, Sir Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge (1857–1934), noted English Egyptologist, Orientalist, and philologist who worked for the British Museum and published numerous works, remarks:

 

The Sun has countless names, Ptah, Tmu, Ra, Horus, Khnemu, Sebek, Amen, etc.; and some of them, such as Osiris and Seker, are names of the Sun after he has set, or, in mythological language, has died and been buried…. All gods, as such, were absolutely equal in their might and in their divinity; but, mythologically, Osiris might be said to be slain by his brother Set, the personification of Night, who, in his turn, was overthrown by Horus (the rising sun), the heir of Osiris.

As can be seen, both Osiris and Horus are essentially sun gods, who both also battle with the “Prince of Darkness,” the god Set or Seth. Summarizing, Egyptologist Dr. Edmund Meltzer states:

 

Horus the falcon was predominantly a sky god AND a sun god.

There is much, much more to this subject, including a 39-page chapter “Horus, Sun of God” in my book Christ in Egypt. You will not get this important information from all the critics out there who are clearly not experts on this subject, as this one issue so roundly demonstrates. If you see this basic error, you would not be remiss in clicking off the page since the rest will likely be just as erroneous.

 

 

Derived From the Article HORUS WAS A SUN GOD!!!!! By Acharya S: https://stellarhousepublishing.com/horus-is-the-sun-god/  and the scholar in this video is Dr. Glenn Stanfield Holland. Moreover Norman J Lockyer Wrote In The Dawn of Astronomy: "We have the form of Harpocrates at its rising, the child sun-god being generally represented by the figure of a hawk. When in human form, we notice the presence of a side lock of hair. The god Ra symbolises, it is said, the sun in his noontide strength; while for the time of sunset we have various names, chiefly Osiris, Tum, or Atmu, the dying sun represented by a mummy and typifying old age. The hours of the day were also personified, the twelve changes during the twelve hours being mythically connected with the sun’s daily movement across the sky" (24-25)

 

In other words Horus the Child / Harpocrates became RA at 12:00 AM thus RA/Horus are the same God Mythologically Speaking same with Atum Khnum Osiris Amen Sokar and others

and in the intepretatio Graeca Horus and RA were both sycretised with the Sun God Helios which would have made them syncretic with each other as well (Syncretism is the fusion of religious Gods and Goddesses from one culture with other Gods and Goddesses within the same culture or within other cultures or sometimes both or at least this the type we are discussing here) and Finally Horus and RA were interchangeable to the point of conflation into RA Horakthy or RE Herakhte  (Ra, The Horus Of The Two Horizons) Even the Ancient Aliens Illuminati Reptilian Geometry Class Triangle The All Seeing Eye Of Providence is known BOTH as the All Seeing Eye Of RA and the All Seeing Eye Of Horus too.

 

Here Is a comment on youtube I found pertaining to this Topic: " It depends on the time and place. Ra is also the god of heaven. A number of Horus and Ra's functions overlap and they share many of the same attributes. But even when Horus is considered the god of heaven/the sky, Horus' eye is the Sun." - StuartMason99

 

Lastly it's worth noting that when Horus is the Sky God or Ruler of Heaven his Left eye is the Moon and his right eye is the Sun

 

Horus Is Also a Moon God in the form of Khonshu: “Horus was combined, syncretized and closely associated with deities other than the sun god, Re, notably (but not exclusively) Min, Sopdu, Khonsu and Montu.”  Donald Redford The Ancient Gods Speak: A Guide to Egyptian Religion (167)

 

 

“As a Divine Child within various Egyptian triads, Khonsu is also connected to the god Shu, who was likewise identified with Horus” 

 

DM Murdock Christ In Egypt The Horus Jesus Connection (177)

 

Citation: Donald Redford The Ancient Gods Speak: A Guide to Egyptian Religion (186)

 

 

“At The Same Time as Horus appears on the sarcophagi as the third person in the Triad of Osiris, Isis and Horus so Khonsu the third person of the triad on the Khonsu Temple is often Identified with Horus.” 

 

Symbols of Ancient Egypt In The Late Period: The Twenty First Dynasty Beatrice L Golff (237)

 

 

“Khonsu was a Moon god originally but became a Sun god at Thebes and was Identified with Horus.”

 

An Order Outside Time: A Jungian View Of The Higher Self From Egypt To Christ Robert B Clarke (???)

 

(I don't know the page for this particular quotation just the book and quotation from a preview I found online so I would appreciate the help with the page)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Sun/Son are homophones that have no etymological connection in other languages!"

 

Although Acharya would often respond it is just a happy coincidence in the english language that many ancient writers caught on to and utilized this as a play on words which is true however it is something I disagree with even her on as the 2 words are indeed etymologically connected even in other languages as we shall see this video will slam the door one and for all on this Apollo-gist objection:

 

Here is another vid on the subject

 

 

   

"Massey was a poet not an Egyptologist! His writings are from muh 18th centuries" OK BOOMER!

 

 

 

 

Who Is Gerald Massey? In exploring the various Egyptian influences upon the Christian religion, one name frequently encountered is that of self-taught lay Egyptologist Gerald Massey (1828-1907), whose works were utilized in ZEITGEIST as well. Massey was fortunate enough to live during an exciting time when Egyptology was in its heyday, with the discovery in 1799 of the Rosetta Stone and the subsequent decipherment of hieroglyphics in 1822 by Champollion. This monumental development allowed for the exposure to light of the fascinating Egyptian culture and religion, meaning that before that time no one could adequately read the Egyptian texts, which Massey ended up spending a considerable portion of his life studying and interpreting, and relatively little was known about the religion, for which Massey possessed a keen sense of comprehension. In his detailed and careful analysis of the Egyptian religion, Gerald Massey utilized the work of the best minds of the time, including that of Champollion, as well as that of Dr. Budge; Sir Renouf; famed Egyptologist Sir William Flinders Petrie; noted Egyptologist Sir John Gardner Wilkinson, the "Father of British Egyptology"; Egyptologist and professor at the University of Berlin, Dr. Heinrich Brugsch; French Egyptologist and curator of the Egyptian section at the Louvre, le vicomte de Rougé; and expert on Egyptian mummies, Dr. Thomas Joseph Pettigrew, among many other scholars in a wide variety of fields. For example, Massey also utilized the work of Sir J. Norman Lockyer, the famous royal English astronomer who was friends with Budge and knew Egypt well, and of Dr. Charles Piazzi Smyth, royal Scottish astronomer and professor of Astronomy at the University of Edinburgh. Massey further studied the work of Reverend Archibald Sayce, professor of Comparative Philology at Oxford, as well as that of famous mythologist Sir James Frazer, although he did not agree with their conclusions. He likewise cited the work of Francois Lenormant, professor of Archaeology at the National Library of France, as well as that of noted philologist and comparative theologian Oxford professor Dr. Max Müller. Massey was very influenced by the work of Dr. Samuel Birch (1813-1885), famous archaeologist, Egyptologist and Keeper of the Department of Oriental Antiquities in the British Museum. Dr. Birch also was the founder of the very prestigious and influential Society of Biblical Archaeology, to which belonged many other notables in the fields of archaeology, Assyriology, Egyptology, etc. Much of this eye-opening work on comparative religion, in fact, emanated from this august body of erudite and credentialed individuals. Birch held many other titles and honors, including from Cambridge and Oxford Universities. His numerous works on Egypt are cited to this day in scholarly publications. In the "Introduction" to his book The Natural Genesis, Massey writes: The German Egyptologist, Herr Pietschmann…reviewed the "Book of the Beginnings"... The writer has taken the precaution all through of getting his fundamental facts in Egyptology verified by one of the foremost of living authorities, Dr. Samuel Birch, to whom he returns his heartiest acknowledgements.1 Dr. Richard Pietschmann was a noted professor of Egyptology at the University of Goettingen, an impressive "peer reviewer" for one of Massey's early works on Egypt. By verifying his "fundamental facts" with Dr. Birch, Massey appears to be saying that his work was also reviewed by Birch. In his scholarly works on Egypt, Gerald Massey demonstrates his knowledge of numerous works from the Greek and Latin world as well, including both the Classical writers and Christian fathers such as Church historian Eusebius. Having taught himself to read not only English but also several other languages including Egyptian hieroglyphics, Massey

 

1 Massey, TNG, viii

 

 

 

scrutinized and interpreted the texts and monuments for himself, such as the Egyptian Book of the Dead or "Ritual,"1 as well as the famous zodiacs in the Temple of Denderah and the "Nativity Scene" at the Temple of Luxor, texts and images that predated the "Christian era" by centuries to millennia.2 Massey was not only skilled at interpreting the Egyptian data in a highly intelligent and unusual manner, but, having been raised a Protestant Christian compelled to memorize whole sections of the Bible, he was also quite knowledgeable about the Bible and was able to see the numerous and profound correlations between the Christian and Egyptian religions, or the "mythos and ritual," as he styled them. Gerald Massey appeared to possess an understanding of the spirituality and astrotheology being conveyed by the Egyptians more profound than most who have worked on the subject. As was the case with the Egyptian masses, no doubt, the astronomical or astrotheological meanings behind Christianity have been lost on the majority of its adherents. The case demonstrating that astrotheology—the reverence for the sun, moon, stars, planets and other natural phenomena—has been in reality the main motivating factor behind major religious myths and rituals the world over can be found in my book Suns of God. This fact of an astrotheological foundation for major religious and spiritual concepts— so brilliantly discerned by Gerald Massey, who was far ahead of his time—is being demonstrated on a regular basis by numerous archaeological discoveries around the world. Although Dr. Budge also has been the subject of certain unwarranted criticism, perhaps because he too found many parallels between Christianity and the Egyptian religion, he also had a fine grasp of the spirituality within said faith, and expressed it in spiritual terms usually reserved—in a culturally biased move—for the Bible. Dr. James P. Allen also possesses an exceptional understanding of the Egyptian spirituality and astrotheology, remarking upon it throughout his important works on the Pyramid Texts and Egyptian language. Regarding Egyptian nature worship, Dr. Allen states: Just as there are hundreds of recognizable elements and forces in nature, so too there were hundreds of Egyptian gods. The most important, of course, are the greatest phenomena.3 Thus, rather than constituting alien and incomprehensible concepts, the Egyptian gods are reflective of natural phenomena, the "greatest" of which would be the cycles and characteristics of the sun, moon, planets, stars and so on, a fact demonstrated repeatedly by Massey to reveal the true meaning behind not only the Egyptian but also the Christian religion. Over the decades, much has been made about the numerous correlations determined by Gerald Massey between Horus and Jesus as well as other characters in the Egyptian and Christian religions. In Origin and Evolution of Religion, one of Massey's students, Dr. Albert Churchward, repeated many of these correspondences, and in The Christ Conspiracy, I too reiterated some of the more germane comparisons—out of hundreds—between Jesus and Horus. These parallels eventually found their way into ZEITGEIST and have been seen by millions. Naturally, these numerous parallels draw the wrath and intense scrutiny of Christian apologists and other detractors, as has been the case since they were first published.

 

1 This title of "Ritual" was originally given to the Book of the Dead by Champollion. However, Renouf (xviii) objects that the Book does not constitute a "ritual" per se. Rather, it is, according to the British Museum's T.G.H. James, a "compilation of spells, prayers and incantations." In any event, this term "Ritual" will be used here interchangeably with "the Book of the Dead."

2 The term "Christian era" is misleading, as such a time varied widely depending on the area. For example, the country of Lithuania did not become Christian until the 14th century; hence, the "Christian era" did not occur there until then.

3 Allen, J., ME, 44.

 

 

Independently of Massey, however, many others also noted these numerous and profound correlations between the Egyptian and Christian religions, with Budge, for example, definitively stating that a treatise on the Egyptian religion's influence on Christianity would fill a "comparatively large volume."1 A professed Christian, Budge was so convinced of the important correspondences between the two faiths that he believed the Egyptian religion had been fulfilled in Christianity. In 1877, William R. Cooper (1843-1878), a young lawyer and Egyptologist who was the Secretary of Dr. Birch's influential Society of Biblical Archaeology, as well as a Fellow and Member of the Royal Astronomical Society, published a work entitled The Horus Myth in Its Relation to Christianity, in which he highlighted many germane correspondences between the myth of the Egyptian god Horus and Christianity. So many were these correspondences, including in numerous physical artifacts, that Cooper termed them "the Horus Christian class."2 From his constant apologies and declarations of devotion to the Christian faith, it is evident that Mr. Cooper was disturbed by his findings and hoped not to run afoul of the authorities who might censure him or worse. Indeed, at that time "blasphemy" laws in England were not only on the books—as they still are—but they were actually being used, ensnaring Rev. Dr. Robert Taylor, for example, who was imprisoned twice in Britain a half century previously for revealing Christianity to be a rehash based on previous religions and mythologies. Unfortunately, William Cooper died at the young age of 35, but his several valuable works on Egypt—and its relationship to the Bible and Christianity—were issued years before Gerald Massey published his famous writings on the same subject. Thus, the claim of correspondences between the Egyptian and Christian religions did not originate with Gerald Massey at all, and a significant number of the previous writers on the subject were well respected Christians. Those who insist that Gerald Massey's work has been "debunked" or "refuted" have rarely read it. Although certain aspects of Massey's work may be considered speculative, as is the case with practically every scholar's work, it can be honestly stated that most of Massey's analysis is not only brilliantly insightful but appears to be sound, based on what was popular religiously and mythologically prior to the Christian era, sometimes centuries and many times millennia before the period in question. This information, of course, is not amenable to Christian claims of veracity and uniqueness; hence, fervent believers and especially their leaders do not enjoy knowing or hearing about it. Regardless of what details may have been lacking in total accuracy, the facts will remain that major aspects of the Christian myth and ritual can be found in the preceding pre-Christian religions and mythologies found in the "known world" of the time. Moreover, the preceding characters such as Horus, Osiris, Isis, Hercules, Krishna and many other gods and goddesses cannot be deemed any more mythical or any less historical than Jesus, as the evidences for their existence on Earth are as, if not more, abundant and convincing than those of Jesus Christ. Although we do not find the severe criticisms regarding Gerald Massey—many of which are driven by a desire to make the gospel story historical no matter how much truth and facts are bent—to possess merit, this present analysis of the claims made in ZEITGEIST is not dependent on Massey's work for the most part. Only a small portion of his exegesis will be cited, in places where extrapolation of the texts has been necessary in order to find the correspondences hinted at by Budge and other experts on the Egyptian religion. For example, when one studies the work of the famous royal astronomer Sir J. Norman Lockyer, who thoroughly and scientifically demonstrated numerous astronomical properties and alignments of Egyptian myths and architecture, one can readily understand how Massey would find astrotheological correspondences within Christianity, as, combining the opinions

1 Budge, TGE, I, xvi

2 Cooper, THM, 49.

 

 

of Lockyer, et al., with those of Budge, et al., who definitively stated that the Egyptian religion was a major influence on Christianity, we are left with the following inescapable and logical conclusion: • If the myths of Osiris, Isis, Horus and Set, etc., are largely astronomical in nature; and • If Christianity is highly influenced by—and is a fulfillment of—the Egyptian religion in significant part; then • Christianity too must represent astronomical myth or astrotheology. Once this conclusion is reached, someone with a passion may go on a quest such as Massey's to find these correspondences between the Egyptian and Christian religions, as well as the true astrotheological underpinnings of Christianity. Furthermore, many of Gerald Massey's most important contentions can be verified and demonstrated utilizing the primary sources of Egyptian texts and monuments—in other words, the parallels are real and significant. In order to understand the many important correspondences between the Egyptian and Christian religions and how they have been framed in media like ZEITGEIST, as well as in my books such as The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God, we need to remember that these common motifs in the Egyptian religion are not necessarily found in story form, as they are in the gospel tale, which itself, we contend, is a patchwork of motifs, myths, sayings and rituals found in pre-Christian religion. It also needs to be kept in mind that the information concerning these previous myths, rituals and symbols was not written down in one neat, ancient encyclopedia but is found widespread around the Mediterranean and elsewhere. Many of the elements of the tale, however, could have been found within the walls of the massive Library of Alexandria, where undoubtedly much of the most serious work in creating Christianity, the gospel story and the character of Jesus Christ was committed. Indeed, it is my contention and that of others deemed "Jesus mythicists" that the creators of the gospel tale picked various themes and motifs from pre-Christian religions and myths, including and especially the Egyptian, and wove them together, using also the Jewish scriptures, to produce a unique version of the "mythos and ritual." In other words, the creators of the Christ myth did not simply take an already formed story, scratch out the name of Osiris or Horus and replace it with Jesus. They chose their motifs carefully, out of the most popular religious symbols, myths and rituals, making sure they fit to some degree with the Jewish "messianic scriptures," as they are termed, and created a new story that hundreds of millions since have been led to believe really and truly took place in history. Over the centuries, those who have clearly seen this development have asserted that this history is a fallacy imposed upon long pre-existing myths and rituals that have been reworked to result in the gospel story. In other words, we are convinced that "Jesus Christ" is a fictional character created out of older myths, rituals and symbols. While reading this companion guide, it is important also to recall these various caveats and points, including that what we ourselves are attempting to convey is that to the ancients these diverse themes and motifs shared by the pre-Christian and Christian religions were all important and very much in the front of their minds, such that they could not be overlooked or ignored when priests went about to create a new, empire-unifying religion that came to be called Christianity. With these facts at hand, as well as that there is no one concrete source for the complete story as found in the New Testament, but that there are many scattered sources used by the priesthood which created this tale, and that reconstructing their deeds can be very difficult, let us proceed through the claims made in the extraordinarily popular documentary ZEITGEIST, Part 1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Isis wasn't a Virgin!!! She was married to and had Sex with the Severed dinkie of Osiris to give birth to Horus" Or "There are no Sources indicating she was a Virgin let alone being called "Meri"!!!!"

  

 

 

In the First Place we are discussing myths in regards to astronomical occurrences in nature not literal biographies of real people who posses real genitalia and contradictions such as having sex and/or being married and/or having many kids and yet remaining a perpetual Virgin are common place when it comes to ancient myths and mythology by it's very nature is contradictory.

 

Some other good examples of this would be Pseudo-Apollodorus which say's Amphitryon was swore under oath to keep his wife Alcmene/Alcmena a virgin until his return and at the same time also says that Zeus/Jupiter bedded with her in the form and shape of Amphitryon and impregnated her with Herakles/Hercules.

 

And another example Is in Ovid's Metamorphoses in which Rhea Sylvia Is Identified as a Vestal Virgin and at the same time also "ravished" I.e. Impregnated in a bush by the Roman War God Mars with 2 divine children (Romulus and Remus) 

 

I could go on but hopefully you get the point by now. 

 

Moreover let's listen to what D.M Murdock had to say about this astral myth: "The virginity of Horus’s mother, Isis, has been disputed, because in one myth she is portrayed as impregnating herself with Osiris’s severed phallus. In depictions of Isis’s impregnation, the goddess conceives Horus “while she fluttered in the form of a hawk over the corpse of her dead husband.”  In an image from the tomb of Ramesses VI, Horus is born out of Osiris’s corpse without Isis even being in the picture. In another tradition, Horus is conceived when the water of the Nile—identified as Osiris—overflows the river’s banks, which are equated with Isis. The “phallus” in this latter case is the “sharp star Sothis” or Sirius, the rising of which signaled the Nile flood.  Hence, in discussing these myths we are not dealing with “real people” who have body parts." From The Zeitgeist Companion Source Guide and Acharya S article ISIS IS A VIRGIN MOTHER!!!!! https://stellarhousepublishing.com/isis-is-a-virgin-mother/

 

"It is erroneously claimed that, because in one version of the myth Isis impregnates herself with Osiris's severed phallus, she cannot be considered a "virgin." In the first place, we are discussing myths, not set-in-stone biographies of real people with the relevant body parts. In addition, there is at least one other version of the myth in which Isis merely hovers above Osiris's body in order to become pregnant with Horus, as illustrated in an image from Denderah, and the fact will remain that Isis was considered by many of her ardent worshippers to be chaste and virginal regardless of the manner in which she was impregnated." Acharya S The Companion Guide to Zeitgeist Part 1 (41)

 

"Osiris...begetting a son by Isis, who hovers over him in the form of a hawk.” (Budge, On the Future Life: Egyptian Religion, 80)

 

 

More over we have ALOT of primary sources in relation to this but I'll cite Just a few of many:

 

"In a text in the temple of Seti I In Abydos Isis herself declares "I Am The Great Virgin" "

 

"In the Late Period in Particular many goddesses are frequently called "(Beautiful) Virgins" especially Hathor, Isis and Nepthys"

 

 

Theological Dictionary Of The Old Testament Volume II Johannes G Botterweck (339)  

 

 

  

So I am Isis.
So I am a flame goddess.
You are Osiris.
I am mother to Horus.
I am sister to the god.
I am Hmmy.t.
I am the Great Virgin.

 

Temple of Seti I, Chapel of Osiris, West Wall-South Gate (13th century BCE)

Amice M. Calverley and Myrtle F. Broome, The Temple of King Sethos I at Abydos: Volume I, The Chapels of Osiris, Isis and Horus, ed. A.H. Gardiner (London: The Egypt Exploration Society, 1933), pl.9.

 

Notice how Isis says she is mother to Horus first THAN states that she is "The Great Virgin" On a side note the word maiden is a synonym for Virgin and sometimes the two words are interchangeble to the point of both words meaning a woman who hasent had sex.

 

"The Egyptian goddess who was equally "The Great Virgin" (hwnt) and Mother of the God was bestowed upon the very same worship as her successor (The Virgin Mary)"

Egyptologist Regenald E Witt: Isis in the ancient world (273)

 

 

"Isis was the sacred embodiment of motherhood and yet was known as the Great Virgin an apparent contradiction that will be familiar to Christians"

Egyptologist: James Curl Egyptian Revival (13)

 

 

"The pagan occasion (Jan.6) was in celebration of the birth of the year god Aion to the Virgin goddess Kore a hellenized transformation of Isis."

Joseph Campbell The Mythic Image (34)

 

Kore being another greek name for Persephone/Proserpine and the word to also means Maiden/Virgin

 

 

"As the redemptive figure of the Egyptian god (Osiris) loomed large over the ancient world Isis came to be worshipped as the primordial Virgin and their child as the saviour of the world"

Egyptologist Bojana Mojsov Osiris Death and afterlife of a God (xii)

 

 

According to Egyptologist Jan Assman in relation to the severed phallas myth: "The Egyptian texts which seldom mention this scene know nothing of this detail" 

Death and Salvation In Ancient Egypt (25)

 

 

 

“-Cybele, Aphrodite, Demeter, Astarte, Isis, Hathor, Inanna and Ishtar. Like them she (Mary) is both virgin and mother and like many of them she gives birth to a half-human half-divine child who dies and is reborn” -The Myth Of The Goddess: Evolution Of An Image by Anne Baring and Jules Cashford (548)

 

“Even In the latter days of Egyptian Culture and religion Hathor retained her Independence and Virginity. In this respect she can be more aptly compared to Athene who remain parthenos though sometimes called mother than with Aphrodite” 

 

Claas Jouco Bleeker Hathor and Thoth two key figures of the Ancient Egyptian Religion (64,65)  

 

“It is characteristic of the position of Hathor in the Ancient Egyptian Pantheon that there is no mention of a father as is the case with Horus son of Osiris and Isis. Hathor’s motherhood is

therefore conceived of as parthenogenesis or being purely symbolical.” 

 

Claas Jouco Bleeker Hathor and Thoth two key figures of the Ancient Egyptian Religion (63)

 

"According to the monuments themselves whose heiroglypghs we are now able to read he was a pious king who planned a temple to Hathor the virgin mother of the gods offered images and golden ivory and wrote "the sacred book" " Egyptologist James Bonwick  The Great Pyramid of Giza: History and Speculation (???) again will need assitance with finding page.

 

"Hathor the divine mother: the Child Horus was now considered in the Lunar Cult as having been brought forth by Hathor. She was most commonly represented as a cow and was the mother goddess she was also the mother of generation childbirth and maternity. when she was depicted in human form she carried an ankh on her right hand and a staff in her left she was crowned with the double horns with the moons crecent wedged between them. When depicted as a cow she was wearing this same headgear in the legends she is concidered a Virgin" Paul Tice That Old Time Religion by Jordan Maxwell (31)  

 

 https://books.google.ca/books?id=Xj20_wz4-eEC&pg=PA31&dq=hathor+virgin+mother&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKzcH46M_rAhXtwVkKHQqLDZs4FBDoATAAegQIBRAC#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

“PARTHENOGENESIS. The myth that certain divine beings or culture-heroes have owed their birth, to a mother without the co-operation of a father has been found to be widespread. For example, Isis, Cybele, Leto, Demeter, and Venus are all represented as " virgin " mothers. The Chinese culture-hero Hon Chi was born of a mother who conceived by treading in a footprint of God. The principal deity of the Uapes Indians of Brazil, Jurupari, was bom of a virgin who conceived after drinking a draught of native beer.” -AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS by Maurice Arthur Canney (278)

 

“Virgin-mothers. Long before the time of Christ parthenogenesis, or reproduction by a virgin, was as familiar to ancient Greek, Egyptian and Oriental legend as it is to modern biology. 

Guatama Buddha was only one of many Oriental heroes whose mother was a virgin. The Egyptian Horus was conceived by Isis without the direct intervention of a male. Isis has been identified with the Greek Demeter, and Demeter also was a virgin, even when she bore a child, Persephone or Proserpine.”-Heroes and Heroines of fiction by William Shepard Walsh 

(344) 

 

Of Course It Is worth noting that Isis was Syncretized / Equated with Demeter by many Greek and Roman authors Herodotus being an example already covered thus if Demeter is a Virgin and a mother than so too is Isis.

 

“As Mithraism moved westward it proved a fertile ground for the addition of mystic meaning. Practically all the symbolism of Osiris was added to the Mithraic cultus even to the fact that Isis became the virgin mother of Mithras.” -Religions Of The World by Gerald L. Berry (56)

 

“Many parts of the Jesus story are not based on Yeishu or ben Stada. Most Christian denominations claim that Jesus was born on 25 December. Originally the eastern Christains believed that he was born on 6 January. The Armenian Christians still follow this early belief while most Christians consider it to be the date of the visit of the Magi. As pointed out already, Jesus was probably confused with Tammuz born of the virgin Myrrha. We know that in Roman times, the gods Tammuz, Aion and Osiris were identified. Osiris-Aion was said to be born of the virgin Isis on the 6 January and this explains the earlier date for Christmas. Isis was sometimes represented as a sacred cow and her temple as a stable which is probably the origin of the Christian belief that Jesus was born in a stable. Although some might find this claim to be farfetched, it is known as a fact that certain early Christian sects identified Jesus and Osiris in their writings. The date of 25 December for Christmas was originally the pagan birthday of the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as Sunday. The halo of light which is usually shown surrounding the face of Jesus and Christian saints, is another concept taken from the sun god.” -The Myth Of The Historical Veracity Of Jesus by ben yehoshua hayyim.

http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nizrael/jesusrefutation.html

 

More proof of Isis' virginity comes from the fact that she was often Identified with a lesser known Virgin warrior goddess of war, wisdom and weaving called Neith who is the Egyptian equivalent Athena. and She was also known for spontaneously divine children including Ra, Apep, Osiris, Sobek and others all on her own without a male consort.

 

Egyptologist Barbara Lesko Talks alot about this in her book The Great Goddesses Of Egypt (44-63) (Although Lesko claims Neith wasn't a Virgin mother even in the myths in which she has no consort this statement is rather silly and untrue based the very fact alone she admitted the Goddess Neith could Produce Children all on her own without male presence which is the VERY pre requisite needed to be a Virgin Mother) and as does Margerite Rigoglioso in her Book Virgin Mother Goddesses Of Antiquity in an entire chapter called Neith/Athena/Metis.

 

Neith (Net) was the mother goddess, … She was a creator goddess who formed all things. In the beginning, she found herself in the watery waste of Nun, and she formed herself when the world was still in shadow and when there was no earth on which to rest, when no plant grew.

 

Dr. Harold Scheub, A Dictionary of Mythology: The Mythmaker as Storyteller (172)

 

Now bearing those facts about Neith and her solitude in mind, there is a statue currently at the Vatican’s Gregorian Egyptian Museum which dates to the time of the Persian rule of Egypt, specifically the early reign of King Darius I, c. 519 BCE.[6] It is a depiction of Udjahorresnet, a Saitic physician and priest of Neith. The inscriptions on this statue contain several adorations to Neith, and one line in particular, located under the right arm, reads:

 

“I let his majesty know the greatness of Sais, that it is the seat of Neith-the-Great, the mother who bore Re and inaugurated birth when birth had not yet been.”

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/cambyses2.htm#:~:text=Udjahorresnet%20also%20tells%20us%20that,had%20not%20yet%20been...&text=His%20Majesty%20knew%20the%20greatness,there%20on%20their%20seats%20forever.

 

 

 

Fig. 3: Statue of the priest Udjahorresnet, 6th century BCE, which attests to the virgin motherhood of Neith.

In corroboration with this is a statue of Neith herself that was once located at her temple in Sais. Though it is now no longer extant, its existence and inscription was documented by a couple of writers from antiquity. Reconstructing it from quotes by Plutarch[8] and Proclus,[9] the inscription said: I am what is, and what will be, and what has been, No one has lifted my veil.The fruit I bore was the sun. [10]

 

Dr. Erik Hornung comments that the veil having never been lifted “clearly refers to sexual union,”[11] and the obvious lack thereof. Egyptologist Jan Assmann states, concerning the inscription:

 

It refers not to an epistemological dilemma, the absolute unattainability of truth, but to the parthenogenesis of the sun out of the womb of a maternal All-Goddess.[12]

 

Continuing that sentiment: Neith was a creator goddess, and she did not need a partner in order to conceive and give birth. Dr. Olaf Kaper, The Egyptian God Tutu [13]

 

In Sais in the Delta, for example, there was a virgin goddess who gave birth to the sun at the beginning of time by some form of parthenogenesis.Dr. John D. Ray, Reflections of Osiris: Lives from Ancient Egypt [14]

 

Neith did not depend on a male partner for her creative powers, which encompassed the entire universe of gods, animals, and humans.Dr. Barabara Lesko, The Great Goddesses of Egypt [15]

 

So the Egyptian sun god Re was born of a virgin, and that was literally written in stone many centuries before the Common Era.

Special thanks and all credit goes to Neal Boswell for this information. Citations can be found here:

 https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/bart-ehrman-vs-virgin-births/

 

Although wikipedia and other apologists try to disprove Neiths virginity by pointing out the various myths in which she is portrayed as having a consort weather it be Seth, Khnumn, Sobek or even as budge pointed out Amen Ra but again we are discussing myths and myths do not possess genitalia and further more it isn’t even until later traditions she is said to have had consorts and earlier traditions held that she gave birth to several Gods without a father or male presence nor had any hubby of any kind.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will list further sources on Neith as a Virgin in a bit but first here are some dumb things Errior (Richard Carrier) had to say on this matter:  

 

"BTW, attempts to equate Neith with Isis or Cleopatra as also virginal mothers are not well-founded: see my discussion in That Luxor Thing Again."

 https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/11161

 

Me and NW Barker had a blast dicussing this via email so here are quotes I made in response to Carrier

 

(Please keep in mind there is vulgarity my apologies but I am only quoting from what I said to FTL because It perfectly responds to and adresses Carriers point)

 

"First of all his claim is silly because he tries to say that Isis impregnating herself with the severed pee pee of Osiris means she cannot be considered a virgin which is dumb because it fails to take into account that contradictions such as being impregnated with a severed phallus to give birth to a child and yet also being "The Great Virgin" or "immaculate Virgin" and the sort are common place within ancient myth and myth/mythology are again keeping in mind by very nature contradictory."

 

 

"It also fails to take into account that are other myths in which Isis is impregnated in a variety of different ways that Don't have the phallus involved from being impregnated by a bolt of lightning as related in Coffin Text Spell 148 translated by Raymound Falkner and further related by Herodotus, Plutarch and Pomponius Mela in terms of a "Virgin Cow" Identified with Hathor and sometimes Isis in the Form of an "Isis cow" being Impregnated with the Apis Bull through a lightning flash or moonbeams to losing the severed phallus and having resort to Parthenogenisis (the Greek word and Scholarly Term For Virgin Birth) to conceive Horus on her own as related by James Curl in Egyptian revival page 13 or 15 can't quite remember at the moment  to being impregnated by magic spells as related by E.A. Wallis Budge "In all these Legends great magical powers were atributed to her for Thoth the heart and intelligence of the God had taught her the spells incantations magical names and words of power which he had employed in making the wishes of this God to take concrete form and he had also taught her how to use them By means of them Isis drew the seed into herself from Osiris after his death and concieved Horus"  Legends of Our Lady Mary the perpetual virgin and her mother Hannâ (lii) and Jan Assman (I'd marry someone just to have that name) even pointed out the egyptian texts which seldom mention this scene know nothing of this detail in other words it is a much LATER MYTH!"

 

On a side note before we move on to the rest it also goes without saying that a cute egyptian girl dildoing herself with a magically produced artificial phallus made from clay and reeds or the sharp star Sothis after losing her husbands own phallus to a crocodile in order to give birth to a child isn't the same thing as actully having sex with a real organic penis to give birth to a child and thus is an immaculate conception.

 

"Further more Isis/Neith are the same goddess as according to Budgie Boy In From Fetish To God In Ancient Egypt pgs 58-59 stated that Neith "as a cow goddess was Identified with Hathor and Isis" furthermore the same information is relayed by Marguerite Rigoglioso In her book Virgin Mother Goddesses Of Antiquity (28) "Rock art throughout the northern part of the African continent dating as far back as 6000 B.C.E. widely depicts sacred bovines and female figures wearing horns, which may represent early forms of Neith and later goddesses with whom she was identified, such as Hathor and Isis" " 

 

"Joshua J Mark in his online article about Neith also said as much" " Neith (aka Net, Neit or Nit) and is one of the oldest deities of ancient Egypt who was worshipped early in the Pre-Dynastic Period (c. 6000 - 3150 BCE) and whose veneration continued through the Ptolemaic Dynasty (323 - 30 BCE), the last to rule Egypt before the coming of Rome. She was a war goddess, goddess of creation, mother goddess who invented birth, and funerary goddess who cared for and helped to dress the souls of the dead. Her cult center was at Sais in the Nile Delta and she continued as the most popular goddess of Lower Egypt even after her attributes were largely given to Isis and Hathor and those goddesses became more popular in Egypt. Neith continued to be honored as the patron goddess of Sais throughout Egypt's history as she was considered a great protector of the people of the land and the most effective mediator between humanity and the gods."

 

"Although many of her attributes were given to Isis and Hathor, as previously noted, her worship never declined. Even during eras where more popular deities received the greater attention, Neith continued to be regarded with reverence and awe and her festival was considered one of the most important in ancient Egypt."

 

 https://www.ancient.eu/Neith/

 

"Even Wikipedia admits this conflation" "Both Plutarch and a later philosopher, Proclus, mentioned a veiled statue of the Egyptian goddess Neith, whom they conflated with Isis, citing it as an example of her universality and enigmatic wisdom. It bore the words "I am all that has been and is and will be; and no mortal has ever lifted my mantle."

 

"The statue was at a temple in Sais, Neith's cult center. She was largely conflated with Isis in Plutarch's time, and he says the statue is of "Athena [Neith], whom [the Egyptians] consider to be Isis". Proclus' version of the quotation says "no one has ever lifted my veil," implying that the goddess is virginal.^[169] This claim was occasionally made of Isis in Greco-Roman times, though it conflicted with the widespread belief that she and Osiris together conceived Horus.^[170] Proclus also adds "The fruit of my womb was the sun", suggesting that the goddess conceived and gave birth to the sun without the participation of a male deity, which would mean it referred to Egyptian myths about Neith as the mother of Ra"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis

 

Mehet-Weret or Mehturt (Ancient Egyptian: mḥt-wrt) is an ancient Egyptian deity of the sky in ancient Egyptian religion. Her name means "Great Flood".

She was mentioned in the Pyramid Texts. In ancient Egyptian creation myths, she gives birth to the sun at the beginning of time, and in art she is portrayed as a cow with a sun disk between her horns. She is associated with the goddesses Neith, Hathor, and Isis, all of whom have similar characteristics, and like them she could be called the "Eye of Ra".^[2]

Mehet-Weret is primarily known as being the "Celestial Cow" or "Cow Goddess" because of her physical characteristics, but she contributes to the world in more ways than that. She is also the Goddess of Water, Creation, and Rebirth; in Egyptian mythology, Mehet-Weret is one of the main components in the making and survival of life.^[3]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehet-Weret

 

 

"Moreover as we already know from Hildegard Temporini, Wilhelm Zitman and de Vos's sources that Isis and Neith were so strongly connected that the 2 were often Conflated in the form of Neith-Isis and Isis-Neith and we are informed by Plutarch in his On Isis and Osiris writings and as further related in the writings of the fourth century greek philosopher Proclus both Neith and Isis (in the form of Isis-Neith) were syncretised with the greek goddess Athena (herself the virgin mother of Apollo/Dionysus as related by Cicero in On the Nature of the Gods Book III as well as Macrobius and Arnobius in terms of Apollo and Dionysus being the same) in the form of a popular statue the Egyptians were worshiping around that time which thus would have made both goddesses syncretic with each other as well. Isis in the form of Neith/Athena even says according to an inscription "The present and the future and the past, I am. My undergarment no one has uncovered. The fruit I brought forth, the sun came into being." sound like Virgin Birth and Alpha and Omega anyone?

 

"Lastly according to the Egyptian Book Of The Dead Chapter 66 (Execute Order 66! -Palpatine) it states "I was conceived by Sekhet and the goddess Neith gave birth to me I am Horus" - Budge Translation. In other words Sekhmet herself a form of Isis in terms of the Papyrus Julihac and a form of Hathor and an inviolable dawn goddess symbolizing the “Virgin Dawn” as seen in Lockyers work was also considered to be the mother of Horus as well as Neith too. So Horus is the Son/Sun of Neith and Isis too so how do they have no connection if they are both mothers of Horus?" 

 

"Thus in conclusion Isis Is Neith and Vice versa Neith is Isis there for Carrier/Errior cannot honestly claim that Neith was a virgin mother of Ra/Horus (as the 2 were interchangeable to point of syncretism in the form of Re Herakte and Harpocrates became Ra/Re at 12 noon as related by Norman J Lockyer and other sources) but Isis somehow wasn't."

 

"Furthermore Shitchard Errior in his Virgin Birth Its Pagan Guys Get Over It Article tries to make a distinction Between Virgin Birth and Sexless Conception....as if they somehow aren't the same. From Aphrodite/Venus (Hathor) born from the seafoam of Uranus's severed balls lol to Ra/Atum/Ptah and others in Egypt being "Self Created" To Ishtar being born sexlessly from Kumarbi eating the magic  sky pixie Anu's Deez Nuts (HA! GOTTEEEEEM HA!) to Adam Lillith and Eve being born from the Earth and a rib to Minerva's birth from the side of Jupiter/Jove's head and even Mithras birth from a rock and Dionysus born to the Virgin Semele by a flash of lightning or alternatively by her drinking his torn up heart in the form of a potion these among many many other examples are NO DIFFERENT than Virgin Birth!"

 

Now moving on Neith as the Virgin mother of Osiris but first some more comic relief in relation to what was previously said.

 

 

"But Horus was not the only sun-god recognised by the Egyptians. His own father Osiris, the Saviour (of whom Horus was a re-incarnation) was born - also at the winter solstice - of an immaculate virgin, the goddess Neith who like Isis mother of Horus was known by the titles of Mother of God, Immaculate Virgin, Queen of Heaven, Star of the Sea, The Morning Star, The Intercessor." Wiiliam Williamson The Great Law: A Study of Religious Origins and Of The Unity Underlying Them (26)

 

"...at the last, when [Osiris's] cult disappeared before the religion of the Man Christ, the Egyptians who embraced Christianity found that the moral system of the old cult and that of the new religion were so similar, and the promises of resurrection and immortality in each so much alike, that they transferred their allegiance from Osiris to Jesus of Nazareth without difficulty. Moreover, Isis and the child Horus were straightway identified with Mary the Virgin and her Son, and in the apocryphal literature of the first few centuries which followed the evangelization of Egypt, several of the legends about Isis and her sorrowful wanderings were made to centre round the Mother of Christ. Certain of the attributes of the sister goddesses of Isis were also ascribed to her, and, like the goddess Neith of Sais, she was declared to possess perpetual virginity. Certain of the Egyptian Christian Fathers gave to the Virgin the title 'Theotokos,' or 'Mother of God,' forgetting, apparently, that it was an exact translation of neter mut, a very old and common title of Isis." Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge, The Gods of Egypt (xv-xvi)

 

"Virgo, who now lends her name to this sign of the zodiac, is the heavenly Nut, the virgin mother of Osiris, who was called the “perfect one” and “the ancient one,” and symbolized light and goodness, concord or harmony, peace and happiness. This virgin, the “great mother,” the “queen of heaven,” the “inscrutable Neith, whose veil no mortal could lift and live..."

Orlando P Shmidt A Self-Verifying Chronological History of Ancient Egypt: From the Foundation of the Kingdom to the Beginning of the Persian Dynasty (53)

 

"Zeus, Father of the gods, visited Semele in the form of a thunderstorm; and she gave birth to the great saviour and deliverer Dionysus. Zeus, again, impregnated Danae in a shower of gold; and the child was Perseus Devaki, the radiant Virgin of the Hindu mythology, became the wife of the god Vishnu and bore Krishna, the beloved hero and prototype of Christ. With regard to Buddha, St. Jerome says “It is handed down among the Gymnosophists of India that Buddha, the founder of their system, was brought forth by a Virgin from her side.” The Egyptian Isis, with the child Horus on her knee, was honored centuries before the Christian era, and worshipped under the names of “Our Lady,” “Queen of Heaven,” “Star of the Sea,” “Mother of God,” and so forth. Before her, Neith, the Virgin of the World, whose figure bends from the sky over the earthly plains and the children of men, was acclaimed as mother of the great god Osiris. The saviour Mithra, too, was born of a Virgin, as we have had occasion to notice before; and on Mithraist monuments the mother suckling her child is not an uncommon figure." - Edward Carpenter Pagan and Christian Creeds http://www.edwardcarpenter.net/ecpcc10.htm

  

 

"Osiris- like priest of Amun- Ra, king of the gods, Osorkon de ceased, son of the priest of Amun -Ra, king ofthe gods, Shishank deceased, the royal son of King Amunmai Osorkon ,” Denon, pl. 137. 108. The same; Osiris the son of Neith and the son of Seb,” M.H. i. 13. “ In the year LXII., on the twenty-ninth day of Pachon , of the reign of King Rameses II., beloved by Osiris lord of Amenti,” E. I. 8. As the king was beloved by this god he was probably dead, and thus his series of dates may have been continued by his successors : he could hardly have reigned sixty two years."

    

Samuel Sharp: Egyptian Hieroglyphics: Being an Attempt to Explain Their Nature, Origin, and Meaning : with a Vocabulary (50)

 

"Thirdly, it is the opinion of the students of esoteric Egyptian relig. ion that Isis, Neith, etc., were the same ; so also Osiris, Ra, and the other Gods. Isis is said to be the wife, mother, sister, and daugh ter of Osiris, also the mother of Horus. Neith is said to be the mother of Ra. Ra, however, is identified with Osiris, and Horus is called the son of Ra (See translation by Chabas of Alexandrian Obelisk where Horus is repeatedly called " Son of the Sun," " Son of Ra," and he is even spoken of as the Son of Ptah)."

 

Historic Magazine and Notes and Queries: A Monthly of History ..., Volumes 9-10 (114)

 

"In the case of Merneptah, Neith addresses the deceased, who is equated with Osiris, as her son, while in the case of Amenemhet, Horus addresses his father."

Egyptologist Jan Assman Death and Salvation In Ancient Egypt (272)

 

"Isis is the sister, wife, daughter , and mother of Osiris ; in her cosmogonic property she is like Neith ; in the Papyrus she is called the Neith of Lower Egypt."

 

An Essay On Pantheism John Hunt (43)

 

I also recall a quote from Wallis Budge in which He discussed Osiris as being Neith’s son to but sadly can’t find It at the moment so I would again be thankful for the assistance

 

Christian Karl Josias Freiherr von Bunsen in Egypt's Place in Universal History: An Historical Investigation in ..., Volume 1 (418-19) noted that Isis was the "Neith of Upper and Ma of Lower Egypt:" https://books.google.ca/books?id=JpBJAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

More over it is worth noting that the egyptian word for Neith NT was transliterated with Nut and Mut/Muth as pointed by John Morris in the New Nation Volume I or II (88-92)

 https://books.google.ca/books?id=K_sCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=in+the+above+i+have+stated+that+nut+is+neith&source=bl&ots=st_xi3m6Gl&sig=ACfU3U3cNVgCAr-uPlp3a1u6uSYy7gbbZw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicq-rWpvDqAhWGZs0KHV77BaI4ChDoATAEegQICBAB#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Meaning that Nut the Egyptian Sky Goddess and Mut the Egyptian Mother Goddess and sometimes Queen of the Gods/Goddesses were Identical to Neith who in turn was syncretic with Isis and Hathor just as Sekhmet identified with Mut at thebes was equated with the 2 aforementioned goddesses and If Nut is the same as Neith than not only is she a virgin mother or "Queen of Heaven" but this would further prove Neith as being mother of Osiris plus here is more Info: "The authority of Thebes waned later and Amun was assimilated into Ra. Mut, the doting mother, was assimilated into Hathor, the cow-goddess and mother of Horus who had become identified as Ra's wife. Subsequently, when Ra assimilated Atum, the Ennead was absorbed as well, and so Mut-Hathor became identified as Isis (either as Isis-Hathor or Mut-Isis-Nekhbet), the most important of the females in the Ennead (the nine), and the patron of the queen. The Ennead proved to be a much more successful identity and the compound triad of Mut, Hathor, and Isis, became known as Isis alone—a cult that endured into the 7th century CE and spread to Greece, Rome, and Britain." https://religion.wikia.org/wiki/Mut#:~:text=Subsequently%2C when Ra assimilated Atum,the patron of the queen. thus Isis-Neith is in fact Mut which is important for reasons I'm about to get into. 

 

Mut herself inspite of being the wife of Amen Ra and mother of Khonsu (the lunar Horus later turned identical to him) at the same time also gave Parthenogenesis (Virgin Birth) to the ENTIRE UNIVERSE! further more one of Mut's symbols was a Vulture and she was sometimes directly Identified as a woman with the head of a vulture which was identifed with the concept of Parthenogenesis/Virgin Birth as admitted by Early Church Fathers such as Origen and Tertulliun. As well as noted by many modern egytologists such as John Anthony West in The Travelers Key to Ancient Egypt (70) https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Traveler_s_Key_to_Ancient_Egypt.html?id=EG0BzbCu0m4C&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=parthenogenesis&f=false

 

The Egyptians fable the whole species [of vultures] is female, and they conceive by receiving the breath of the East Wind, even as the trees do by receiving the West Wind.

Plutarch, Moralia 286C 595

 

595 Plutarch, Moralia, in Plutarch’s Moralia: Volume IV, trans. F.C. Babbitt (London: William Heinemann Ltd., and Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1936-99), 141. (Emph. added.) 200

 

The belief that the vulture represented femininity and motherhood, and the related ideas that there were only female vultures and that they were virgin born, without a male begetter, thus appears to come from Egypt. In an Egyptian Demotic papyrus from the second century CE, we can read the following words of the goddess Mut: “I am the noble vulture (nryt) of the male brother, the lord of Thebes, i.e. the noble vulture of which no male exists.” This Egyptian statement that there were only female vultures is confirmed by various Graeco-Roman writers. Dr. Herman Te Velde, in Servant of Mut: Studies in Honor of Richard A. Fazzini 596

 

They say, too, that among vultures there are only females, which become parents alone. Tertullian of Carthage, Adversus Valentinianos 4.10 597

 

It is said that no male vulture is ever born: all vultures are female. And the birds knowing this and fearing to be left childless, take measures to produce them as follows. They fly against the south wind. If however the wind is not from the south, they open their beaks to the east wind, and the inrush of air impregnates them, and their period of gestation lasts for three years. Aelian, On the Characteristics of Animals 2.46 598

 

I have to say that the Creator showed in the birth of various animals that what He did in the case of one animal, He could do, if He wished, also with others and even with men themselves. Among the animals there are certain females that have no intercourse with the male, as writers on animals say of vultures; this creature preserves the continuation of the species without any copulation. Why, therefore, is it incredible that if God wished to send some divine teacher to mankind He should have made the organism of him that was to be born come into being in a different way instead of using generative principle derived from sexual intercourse of 596 Herman Te Velde, “The Goddess Mut and the Vulture,” in Servant of Mut: Studies in Honor of Richard A. Fazzini, ed. S.H. D’Auria (Leiden: Koninklijke Brill NV), 244. (Emph. added.) 597

 

Tertullian of Carthage, Adversus Valentinianos, in The Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume III, eds. A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, trans. A. Roberts (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, 1885-1994), 509.

 

598 Aelian, On the Characteristics of Animals, in Aelian: On Animals, Books 1-5, trans. A.F. Scholfield (London: William Heinemann Ltd., and Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1958), 145. 201 men and women? Moreover, according to the Greeks themselves not all men were born from a man and a woman. Origen Adamantius, Contra Celsum 1.37 599

 

Taken from The Perrieniel Gospel or pagan parallels the ultimate source guide Osiris Revalation N.D. Bosewell special thanks to him as well as his scholarship for these sources and as a huge shout out to fellow Myhticist Neal Boswell I wiil leave some links to him and his works his blog and his free 900 page Perennial Gospel E:Book:  https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/ and https://www.scribd.com/doc/217853241/Pagan-Parallels-The-Ultimate-Source-Guide#download It's no Chirst in Egypt but it's a close second and is free for anyone not willing to or just unable to afford CIE It focuses less on Horus Jesus Parallels and More On Osiris/Dionysus-Jesus Parallels with some Horus-YHWH/Jesus Parallels poping up here and there so I guess an alternate title would for his book would be Christ In Egypt: The Osiris-Jesus connection LOL  

 

All These strong links between Mut/Muat and Virgin motherhood / Parthenogenesis couple that with the fact that she is Identified with Isis inderectly with her being equivelant to Neith and Sekhmet and directly in terms of being Identifed syncretized with Isis-Hathor or when she is in her form as  Mut-Isis-Nekhbet and Isis Usurped the role of Mut in the Egyptian triad so Isis Is Mut therefore the points made are not only more proof of more pre christian pagan virgin mothers in egypt besides Isis but also serve as further proof of Isis herself as a virgin!

 

 

In fact many artworks of Isis potray her as having a vulture headress or even as being a literal vulture!

 

 

Furthermore Mut and Hathor in the interpretatio graeca were both Syncretized with Hera/Juno who despite her Marital status to Zeus/Jupiter and amount of children she was said to have given birth to renewed her Virginity yearly in a lake near Argos and was thus mythically speaking a perpetual virgin mother! infact she gives birth to several kids without an offspring in several stories from giving birth to Set/Apep/Typhon by mearely smacking her hands on the ground (Mother Earth) to giving birth to Ptah/Hephaestus/Vulcan through mere willpower alone as related in Pseudo Apollodorus as opposed to other versions also found in Pseudo Apollodorus were she is impregnated with him via union with Zeus/Jupiter/Ammon Ra

to Ovid's Metamorphesus were Mut-Hathor/Juno gives birth to the Roman God of War Onuris/Ares/Mars simply through the touch of a flower in the goddess Flora's garden. 

 

In Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity (65-99) Margerite Rigoglioso has an entire chapter dedicated to this matter titled Hera: Virgin Queen of Heaven, Earth, and the Underworld.

Proving that Isis-Mut and Hera (Hathor too) as Virginal mothers at least centuries if not millenia before the common era 

 

As we have seen from prior sources and Information Hathor despite her role as goddess of sex beauty love fertility at the same time had virginity comparable to Athena/Minerva and like Isis she to was a later form or variation of Neith and thus would have had all Neith's Virgin birth creatrix powers as well and she was concidered the mother of Horus/Harpocrates and Apis thus she would have been concidered the Virgin mother of Apis and Horus hence further substantiating Horus being born of a Voigin as the I-talians of the Sopranos or Godfather series would put it lol. 

 

 

“The more general archetype was often seen in mythology as threefold; thus, for example, Aphrodite was seen as Aphrodite the Virgin, Aphrodite the Wife, and Aphrodite the Whore. A similar triplicity is found in the figure of Isis as Sister, Wife and Widow of Osiris.”

 

Adam Mclean: The Triple Goddess (16)

 

Aphrodite herself as we have seen from prior sources in spite of marital relations with Montu-Mars, amount of children and roles as a Vain Sex Goddess was also a perpetual Virgin and thus would have been concidered the Virgin Mother of Cupid, Phobos, Deimos, Hermaphrodite, Harmonia, Anneus and Our LAWED and saviour Julius Christ! Who after the beheading of Pompey the Baptist was betrayed and murdered by Brutus Iscariot!  and because of her syncretizem with Isis/Neith and Hathor she would also have been concidered the Virgin Mother of Ra Horakthy, Osiris, Sobek and Apep/Apophis or Seth as he was also called as we will see later.

 

 

Furthermore Because Aphrodite/Hathor was identicle to the "Virgin Cow" that gave birth to Apis Via a flash of lightning or moonbeams and Apis himself was syncretic with Osiris (hence the Popular Mystery Cult God Serapis or "Mara Bar Serapis" as I shall Jokingly call Him lol) it would thus make Venus/Hathor the Virgin Mother of Osiris in some myths through "satanic" lightning or Lunar Rays.

  

Lucifer/Venus is the morning star (SUN) in astrology hence the symbolism in this video!

 

Over the centuries, a number of individuals have brought to attention the obvious correspondences between the Christian Madonna and Child and the images of the great goddess Isis holding and suckling her babe, Horus. There are many pre-Christian images of Isis and Horus in this "Madonna and Child" pose, and it has been asserted by not a few people, quite logically, that the Christian iconography is directly based upon this extremely popular Egyptian image. Furthermore, it has been claimed repeatedly that, like her Christian counterpart, the Egyptian Mother of God was deemed an "immaculate virgin."1 In addition, it has been evinced that the two Divine Mothers even shared the same name, with Jesus's mother named "Mary," of course, while Horus's mother possessed the epithet of "Meri" or "Mery," as the Egyptian word is transliterated by several authors including famed Egyptologist Dr. W.M. Flinders Petrie.2 In addition to the fact that there have been preChristian goddesses named "Mari," such as on the Greek island of Cyprus,3 this epithet "Meri" or "Mery" in Egyptian simply means "beloved" or "delight," and we would thus expect it to have been applied many times to Isis at some point in the history of her long reverence by millions of people around the Mediterranean. In reality, the epithet meri/mery was so commonly used in regard to numerous figures in ancient Egypt, such as gods, kings, priests, government officials and others, that we could not list here all of the instances in which it appears. For example, many Egyptian kings and authorities bore the appellation of "Meri," including Meri-ab-taui, Meri-Amen-setep, MeriAten, Meri-ka-Ra, Meri-mes, Meri-neter and so on.4 Some of these royal epithets represent

1 Cf. Acharya/Murdock, SOG, 200-201.

2 Petrie, 139.

3 Graves, 326.

4 Budge, BKE, 243.

 

 

 

 

"Horus names," while Horus himself is called "beloved"—i.e., meri—in the Book of the Dead.1 Indeed, one of Horus's common titles is Se-meri-f: "the Beloved Son."2 The famous pharaoh Ramses II's wife, Nefertari, was also named Mery Mut, 3 "Beloved Mother" or " Mother Mary," so to speak, long before the Christian era. Another queen was named "Merneith," a compound of mery with the goddess name Neith.4 Hence, in consideration of the fact that Neith was a virgin mother, 5 in this name we possess the concept of a "virgin Mery" long prior to the Christian era. Obviously, the Egyptian name was not in English; nor was the "Virgin Mary" called as much in the ancient Greek texts in which her story was originally told. The point is that the Egyptians who would later become Christians were already familiar with a virgin mother of God named Mery.6 Several gods in addition to Horus, such as Ra and Amen, also had the epithet meri/mery attached to their names: Ra-Meri or Meri-Ra and Amen-Meri or Meri-Amen, meaning "beloved of Ra" or "beloved Ra" and "beloved of Amen" or "beloved Amen." The god Ptah was likewise deemed "beloved," as in "Ptah-Meri."7 Even Egypt itself is called Ta-Meri— "beloved land."8 In an inscription regarding one of the Greek rulers of Egypt called the Ptolemies, we find a reference to "Horus, son of Isis, beloved," the word for "beloved" being meri/mery. It is unclear exactly who is being called "beloved," Horus, Isis or the Ptolemy, but it certainly could be Isis described as mery. As is also common with gods and goddesses, and especially in the Egyptian religion, gods and their epithets are frequently interchangeable with one another, representing the ultimate oneness expressed in ancient Egyptian spirituality. For example, in the chapter of the "Deification of the Members" from the Ritual (Papyrus of Ani), we find the following: "The head of this Meri-Ra is the head of Horus... The eyes of this Meri-Ra are the eyes of the Great Lady," i.e., Isis.9 Thus, it could be said that Meri-Ra is equivalent to both Horus and Isis. Moreover, in the cartouches of several Egyptian kings we find references to "Auset Meri," or "Isis beloved,"10 including in that of the king Thekeleth or Takeleth II, who is called "Amenmeri Auset-Meri."11 In fact, Caesar Augustus's cartouche likewise contained the epithet 1 Renouf, 150. 2 Renouf, 54. 3 Petrie, 82. 4 Rice, 126. 5 Tiele, OHR, 50. 6 In the original Greek of the New Testament, of course, the name for Jesus's mother is "Maria." However, one must ask why the name was shortened in English to "Mary"—was it because, centuries into the common era, Isis remained a beloved goddess surnamed "Mery?" When was Maria first called "Mary," and by what mechanism did this change occur? Early Christians noted the similarity between Maria and "mare" or "mari," meaning "sea" in Latin, as in "stella maris." Thus, it appears that Mary was called as such fairly early, certainly long before the time Isis worship had disappeared openly. In any event, it is beyond "coincidence" that the Egyptian virgin mother of God was called Mery centuries before the Jewish virgin mother of God was likewise termed.

7 Budge, AHE, 40.

8 Budge, AHE, 306.

9 Budge, PA, 95.

10 Budge, TM, 102, et seq.

11 Budge, AGTSER, 206.

 

 

"Ptah Auset-Meri" or "Ptah and Isis Beloved."1 Also, Isis was apparently called "his beloved one," or Meri-f-u, the "his" referring to Horus.2 In an article in The Contemporary Review under the entry for "Miriam"—the Jewish name for Mary—Dr. W. Robertson Smith ventures a derivation from "probably the Egyptian Meri-(t)," meaning, "beloved, a woman's name..."3 Since the name Miriam in Hebrew is said to mean "rebellion," this last point is debatable, as is frequently the case within the field of etymology. Nevertheless, the same logical association of Meri and Mary is posited by Rev. Henry Tompkins in Journal of the Transactions of the Victoria Institute: "May not Miriam be one of the many Egyptian names beginning with Meri?" 4 In any event, the assertion that Horus's mother was called "Mery" is a sound and important one, as is the claim that, like Jesus's, his mother was a virgin. Indeed, verifying this Egyptian claim to a virgin birth, Bonwick relates: In an ancient Christian work, called the "Chronicle of Alexandria," occurs the following: "Watch how Egypt has consecrated the childbirth of a virgin, and the birth of her son, who was exposed in a crib to all the adoration of the people…"5 The "Chronicle of Alexandria" or Chronicum Alexandrinum is also called the "Paschal Chronicle" or Chronicon Paschale, a Christian work begun in the 3rd century and finished in the 7th century.6 In The Origin of All Religious Worship, French Abbé Charles Dupuis relates the same information: …the author of the Chronicle of Alexandria…expresses himself in the following words: "The Egyptians have consecrated up to this day the child-birth of a virgin and the nativity of her son, who is exposed in a 'crib' to the adoration of the people. King Ptolemy, having asked the reason of this custom, he was answered that it was a mystery, taught by a respectable prophet to their fathers."7 Also verifying these assertions, Arthur D. Thomson states: The Chronicle of Alexandria has preserved the tradition of the practice of exhibiting the sun on the supposed day of his birth as a new-born infant as being held sacred in the mysteries of Egypt... "Up to the present time Egypt has held sacred the delivery of a virgin and the birth of her son, who is exposed in a cradle to the adoration of the people. King Ptolemy having asked the reason of this practice, the Egyptians told him that it was a mystery taught to their ancestors by a venerable prophet."8 The part about Ptolemy and the mysteries is important, for a couple of reasons: 1. It means that this custom of bringing forth the newborn sun of the virgin mother dated back at least to the time of Ptolemy Soter, three centuries prior to the Christian era; and 2. The custom being a mystery indicates it was not widely known by the masses or exposed by initiates under the penalty of death, such that we do not find it recorded in numerous sources from the pertinent era. We do, however, possess this curious passage from the Christian text the Chronicon Paschale. Citing the Chronicum Alexandrinum (366) as his source, Thompson

1 Budge, CH, 211.

2 Gordon, 460.

3 TCR, 362.

4 JTVI, 137.

5 Bonwick, 143.

6 On p. 256, McCabe relates that the pertinent passage of the Chronicon Paschale may be found in Migne's Patrologia Graeca, xcii, or "PG92," col. 385.

7 Dupuis, 237.

8 Thomson, 481.

 

 

 provides the original Greek, which does indeed say what it is alleged to relate, the pertinent word here being parthenos or "virgin."1 The assertion that Horus's mother was a virgin can also be found in the Book of the Dead, chapter 66, in which the deceased identifies himself as Horus and says: "I know that I have been conceived by Sechit and that I am born of Neith."2 Budge's translation of the same passage from ch. 66 is as follows: "I was conceived by the goddess Sekhet, and the goddess Neith gave birth to me. I am Horus..."3 Sechit or Sekhet is the wife of Ptah and mother of the god Atum, representing the "second personage of the Memphis triad,"4 one of the Egyptian "holy trinities." Identified with the goddess Hathor,5 who in turn is identified with Isis, Sekhet represents another form of the Dawn goddess.6 Not surprisingly, in the mythology of other cultures, such as the Indian and Greek, appears the same theme of the personified and deified Dawn giving birth to the sun—the inviolable or virgin mother. 7 In addition, in this ancient text we possess an identification of the mother of Horus as the goddess Neith, who is by all accounts a virgin mother from thousands of years prior to the Christian era. In fact, some scholarship provides for estimates of the pre-historic Neith's worship dating back some 7,000 years.8 Regarding the important and ancient goddess Neith, from whom Horus is said to have been born, Budge states: And the priests of the goddess Net (Neith) of Sais...held the view that she was selfbegotten and self-produced, that she was the mother of the Sun-god, and at the same time a perpetual virgin-goddess.9 Moreover, in a startling series of admissions concerning Isis, sincere Christian Budge further remarks: …it is clear that early Christians bestowed some of her attributes upon the Virgin Mary. There is little doubt that in her character of the loving and protecting mother she appealed strongly to the imagination of all the Eastern peoples among whom her cult came, and that the pictures and sculptures wherein she is represented in the act of suckling her child Horus formed the foundation for the Christian figures and paintings of the Madonna and Child. Several of the incidents of the wanderings of the Virgin with the Child in Egypt as recorded in the Apocryphal Gospels reflect scenes in the life of Isis as described in the texts found on the Metternich Stele, and many of the attributes of Isis, the God-mother, the mother of Horus, and of Neith, the goddess of Sais, are identical with those of Mary the Mother of Christ. The writers of the Apocryphal Gospels intended to pay additional honour to Mary the Virgin by

1 "Εως νυν Αιγυπτιοι θεοποιουσιν Παρθενου λοχον και ΒρεΦος εν Φατνη τιθεντες προσκυνουσιν. Και Πτολεµαιω τω Βασιλει την αιτιαν πυνθανοµενω ελεγον, οτι παραδοτον εστι µυστηριον υπο οσιου Προφητου τοις πατρασιν ηµων παραδοθεν." This citation appears to refer to a version published in the 17th century.

2 Renouf, 128.

3 Budge, EBD (Routledge), 228.

4 Wilkinson, 39.

5 Lockyer, TDA, 211.

6 Lockyer, TDA, 31. 7 Cf. Acharya/Murdock, SOG, 178, 180, 182, 199, 202, 205, 214, 222.

8 Bonwick, 114.

9 Budge, ASH, 168-169.

 

 

 

 

ascribing to her the attributes which up to the time of the advent of Christianity they had regarded as the peculiar property of Isis and Neith and other great indigenous goddesses, and if the parallels between the mythology history of Isis and Horus and the history of Mary and the Child be considered, it is difficult to see how they could possibly avoid perceiving in the teachings of Christianity reflections of the best and most spiritual doctrines of the Egyptian religion. The doctrine of parthenogenesis was well known in Egypt in connexion with the goddess Neith of Sais centuries before the birth of Christ; and the belief in the conception of Horus by Isis through the power given her by Thoth, the Intelligence or Mind of the God of the universe, and in the resurrection of the body and of everlasting life, is coeval with the beginnings of history in Egypt. We may note too in passing the probability that many of the heresies of the early Christian Church in Egypt were caused by the survival of ideas and beliefs connected with the old native gods which the converts to Christianity wished to adapt to their new creed.1 Essentially Budge is indicating that much of the Christian religion and tradition is related to the Egyptian religion, including direct lifts of attributes from Egyptian goddesses later ascribed to the Virgin Mary. Budge states definitively that "partheno-genesis"—virgin birth— was known in Egypt centuries prior to the Christian era, specifically as concerns the goddess Neith. Of Neith, Bonwick likewise states, "Neith or Nout is neither more nor less than the Great Mother, and yet the Immaculate Virgin, or female god, from whose bosom all things has proceeded."2 Again, Budge states, "She was the Virgin-mother of the Sun-god, and the 'Mother-goddess' of the Western Delta."3 In his History of the Egyptian Religion, Dr. Cornelius P. Tiele (1830-1902), a professor of the History of Religions at the University of Leiden, likewise commented on the virginity of Neith: ...Neith is distinguished...by being a virgin goddess. This is expressed in the words inscribed on her temple, "My garment no one has lifted up," which is immediately followed by, "The fruit that I have borne is the sun." She is thus the virgin mother of the sun...4 In Religious Systems of the World, Dr. Tiele also refers to "Isis the virgin."5 As Neith gives birth to the sun god Ra (and Horus), so too does Isis give birth to the sun god Horus. In reality, Isis is a later form of Neith, the two combined as "Isis-Neith" or "Neith-Isis." Budge also states that Neith was "identified with Hathor and Isis." The goddess Neith was celebrated at the Egyptian site of Sais, where she had a temple, also dedicated to her alter-ego Isis. Budge further discloses that "at Sais there were several chambers in which the 'Mysteries' of the ancient Virgin Mother-goddess Neith were celebrated."6 According to Plutarch (ch. 9), "In Saïs the statue of Athena, whom they believe to be Isis, bore the mysterious inscription: 'I am all that has been, and is, and shall be, and my robe no mortal has yet uncovered.'"7 As noted, this inscription at Sais finished with the sentence, "The fruit I have produced is the sun."

1 Budge, TGE, II, 220. (Emph. added.)

2 Bonwick, 115.

3 Budge, FFGAE, 59.

4 Tiele, CHEMR, 204.

5 RSW, 214.

6 Budge, FFGAE, 25.

7 Plutarch/Babbitt, 25.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding this inscription at Sais, Thomson remarks: Proclus, who, as well as Plutarch, has given the inscription over the temple of the Virgin of Sais, the mother of the sun, whom they both say is identical with Minerva [Athena], speaking of the seat of this goddess in the heavens, gives her two places— the one near Aries, or the equinoctial Lamb, whose form the god of light assumes in spring, and other in the celestial Virgin, or in the sign which presides at her birth (Procl. in Tim. p. 43); so that it appears that Isis, the mother of the sun, to whom the temple at Sais was dedicated, was the same that Eratosthenes places in the constellation Virgo, which opened that year. The symbolic representation of the year itself was a woman called Isis, according to Horapollo (vol. I. cap. iii.). It was in honour of this same virgin, the image of the pure and luminous substance, that the celebrated feast of lights (on which Candlemas, or the feast of Lights of the Purification, is founded) and was celebrated.1 In his Commentary on Plato's Timaeus, Greek neoplatonist Proclus (c. 412-485 AD/CE) also discusses the city of Sais, the founding goddess of which is Neith, whom he likewise says the Egyptians equate with the Greek goddess Athena.2 Proclus's rendition in Greek of the inscription at Sais is as follows: τα οντα και τα εσοµενα και τα γεγονοτα εγω ειµι. τον εµον χιτωνα ουδεις απεκαλυψεν. ον εγω καρπον ετεκον, ηλιος εγενετο.3 My very literal translation of this inscription is as follows: The present and the future and the past, I am. My undergarment no one has uncovered. The fruit I begot, the sun came into being. Regarding the meaning of the statement concerning no one uncovering Neith's garment, William Coleman remarks: The point is this: Does the expression, "lifting the garment"...of Neith refer to her perpetual virginity or to her inscrutability? There is not a shadow of doubt that it refers to the former, and I am confident that every Egyptologist in the world will so decide.4 The general interpretation of this inscription is that Neith, one of the most important deities of the Egyptian pantheon, is not only the "Alpha and Omega," so to speak, but also the inviolate begetter of the sun, the Immaculate Virgin and Great Mother. The fact of her association with the Greek goddess Athena—herself a chaste and pristine virgin, as indicated by the name of her temple at Athens, the Parthenon—confirms Neith's esteemed virginal status. Also, that the perpetual virginity of the goddess was a mystery is indicated by both Plutarch and Budge, the former of whom further identifies the virginal goddess at Sais as Isis. Among other attributes, scholars have found in Neith a representation of both the winter solstice and the summer solstice, as well as the sun itself.5 The suggestion that Neith—who gives birth to the sun—is also the winter solstice lends credence to the assertion that Horus was born on the winter solstice, especially since in the Book of the Dead Horus says he is born of Neith, further validating the inscription at Sais.

1 Thomson, 468-469.

2 Proclus (Tim. 21E), 97.

3 Proclus (Tim. 21E), 98.

4 Coleman, 66.

5 Bonwick, 117.

 

As stated, in the myths of other cultures, the "inviolable begetter of the sun" is the dawn, personified as a chaste goddess. Indeed, concerning Isis, Budge remarks, "As a nature goddess she is seen standing in the boat of the sun, and she was probably the deity of the dawn."1 Royal astronomer Sir J. Norman Lockyer concurs. "Isis represents the Dawn and the Twighlight; she prepares the way for the Sun-god."2 Interestingly, Budge names Neith and Isis as among the goddesses who are "names of the Sky, especially at sun-rise and sunset." (AGFSER, 2) That fact would make of Neith also a dawn goddess, and once again the identification of Neith with Isis is made. Concerning the identification of Isis with Neith, whose virginal state long prior to the Christian era has been attested by a number of sources, Bonwick likewise says of Isis: "She is seen to assume the role of Neith."3 It is erroneously claimed that, because in one version of the myth Isis impregnates herself with Osiris's severed phallus, she cannot be considered a "virgin." In the first place, we are discussing myths, not set-in-stone biographies of real people with the relevant body parts. In addition, there is at least one other version of the myth in which Isis merely hovers above Osiris's body in order to become pregnant with Horus, as illustrated in an image from Denderah,4 and the fact will remain that Isis was considered by many of her ardent worshippers to be chaste and virginal regardless of the manner in which she was impregnated. Furthermore, in his eye-opening comparison of Isis with the Virgin Mary, Budge states that in the Osirian myth it is by incantations, spells and words that Isis draws the seed into herself to conceive Horus.5 Says Budge: By these spells she, assisted by her son Horus and by Anubis, the divine physician, reconstituted and revivified the body of Osiris, and thus created her son Horus, and recreated Osiris.6 The identification of Isis with the Virgin is further made in an ancient Greek text called The Katasterismoi, or Catasterismi, allegedly written by the astronomer Eratosthenes (276-194 BCE), who was for some 50 years the head librarian of the massive Library of Alexandria.7 Although the original of this text has been lost, an "epitome" credited to Eratosthenes in ancient times has been attributed by modern scholars to an anonymous "PseudoEratosthenes" of the 1st to 2nd centuries AD/CE. 8 In this book, the title of which translates as "Placing Among the Stars," appear discussions of the signs of the zodiac. In his essay on the zodiacal sign of Virgo (ch. 9), under the heading of "Parthenos," the author includes the goddess Isis among others such as Demeter, Atagartis and Tyche, as identified with and as the constellation of the Virgin. 9 In Star Myths of the Greeks and Romans, Dr. Theony Condos translates the pertinent passage from the chapter "Virgo" by Pseudo-Eratosthenes thus:

1 Budge, EBD, cxiv.

2 Lockyer, TDA, 29. 31

3 Bonwick, 113.

4 Budge, ER, 80.

5 Budge, LOLM, liii.

6 Budge, LOLM, liii.

7 Condos, 17.

8 Condos, 18-19.

9 Eratosthenes, 244-245

 

 

 

Hesiod in the Theogony says this figure is Dike, the daughter of Zeus and Themis… Some say it is Demeter because of the sheaf of grain she holds, others say it is Isis, others Atagartis, others Tyche…and for that reason they represent her as headless.1 The headlessness of the goddess/constellation is interesting in consideration of the story that Isis too was at some point decapitated.2 Thus, Isis was associated with the constellation of Virgo, the Virgin. In fact, as we know well, much of the myth surrounding Osiris, Isis and Horus is indeed astrological or astrotheological. Hence, in the myth of Isis and Horus appears the theme of the constellation of the Virgin giving birth to the baby sun at the winter solstice, long before the Christian era and undoubtedly serving as the germ for the Nativity story of Jesus Christ. Nor is Neith-Isis the only pre-Christian and non-Christian virgin mother. In Heroes and Heroines of Fiction, William Shepard Walsh states: Virgin-mothers. Long before the time of Christ, parthenogenesis, or reproduction by a virgin, was as familiar to ancient Greek, Egyptian and Oriental legend as it is to modern biology. Guatama [sic] Buddha was only one of many Oriental heroes whose mother was a virgin. The Egyptian Horus was conceived by Isis without the direct intervention of a male. Isis has been identified with the Greek Demeter, and Demeter also was a virgin, even when she bore a child, Persephone or Proserpine.3 As we have seen, it has been contended that the Greek earth mother Demeter/Ceres, who gave birth to the season-goddess Persephone/Kore, was said to be a virgin, equated with Virgo by Pseudo-Eratosthenes, for one. Regarding the virginal status of Demeter, the authoritative Christian publication The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, in its entry on the "Virgin Birth," reports: Nowhere, perhaps, has comparative religion discovered a more impressive instance of virgin birth than in the Eleusinian Mysteries. The supreme moment of the solemn celebration of these rites was marked by the marriage of the sacred mother and the birth of the sacred child. The mother was Brimo, a maiden, a goddess of the underworld, the Thessalian Kore or Demeter, the goddess of the fruits of the cultivated earth…. Thus at the very heart and culmination of the ceremonies at this sacred shrine in ancient Greece, centuries before its appearance in the Septuagint, the dogma had been created, "A virgin shall conceive and shall bear a son.4 Not only does this passage validate the claim that there were other, pre-Christian virgin births, but it also supports the notion that this motif of parthenogenesis constituted a mystery. Thus, this motif represented part of the famous Eleusinian Mysteries, which, we contend, is one of the reasons the virgin birth is not widely known, including in the myth of Isis, who also had her mysteries, evidently including her own perpetual virginity. Mary is Mery Redux? The similarities between the Egyptian and Christian mothers of God do not end with their names or perpetual virginity. Like the Virgin Mary turned away from an inn while with child, the pregnant Isis too is refused a "night's lodging."5 Also like Mary, who flees with the baby

1 Condos, 205.

2 Griffiths, 104.

3 Walsh, 344.

4 Schaff-Herzog, 212.

5 Budge, LOLM, liii-liiii.

 

 

Jesus into Egypt to escape the tyrant Herod, Isis must flee with the baby Horus to another part of Egypt to escape the tyrant Set.1 Like Jesus, Isis is imbued with the ability to raise the dead, first resurrecting Osiris, and then, after Set as a scorpion stings the baby Horus to death, resurrecting her son as well.2 Isis is also depicted as the healing deity, likewise saving the life of the sun god Ra, when he too was poisoned.3 Of Isis's healing abilities, Budge remarks, "The great Codices of the Book of the Dead written under the XVIIIth dynasty prove that the blood of Isis was believed to possess great magical protective powers."4 Thus, Isis's magical blood is like that of Christ. In addition, as Christians do with the Virgin Mary, Isis's female worshippers petitioned her to make them fertile and able to conceive. 5 Isis's titles were many, including: "Divine Lady," "Greatest of gods and goddesses," "Queen of the gods," "Lady of heaven," "Holy one of heaven," "Great goddess of the Other World," "Mother of Horus," "Mother of the God," "Lady of Life," "Lady of joy and gladness" and "Queen of heaven."6 By the time of the common era, it would not be an exaggeration to say that Isis was the most important deity of the Roman Empire, and, as such, her influence cannot be overstated. Her millions of worshippers would no more simply forget her than would the devotees of the Virgin Mary today, without a very powerful and concerted effort to usurp her worship by setting up a competing cult, which is precisely what happened with Christianity. As Budge points out, the powerful gods of the Isian cult became widespread around the Mediterranean, including and especially in Greece, four to five centuries before the Christian era, with Isis one of the most popular gods at Rome by the first century BCE. 7 From Rome, the cult of Isis spread throughout other parts of the Roman Empire, including Europe and Libya. At this point, these many worshippers of Isis all around the vast territory of the Empire perceived reality in the following manner: ...The resurrection of Osiris taught them to believe in the resurrection of the dead, the conception and birth of Horus, preached the doctrine of life arising out of death, the triumph of Horus over Set symbolized the ultimate victory of good over evil, and the sorrows of Isis and her tender mother-love touched all hearts.8 Concerning this "preparation for Christianity," as apologists over the centuries have disingenuously deemed it, Budge states: ...the knowledge of the ancient Egyptian religion which we now possess fully justifies the assertions that the rapid growth and progress of Christianity in Egypt were due mainly to the fact that the new religion, which was preached there by Saint Mark and his immediate followers, in all its essentials so closely resembled that which was the outcome of the worship of Osiris, Isis and Horus that popular opposition was entirely disarmed. In certain places in the south of Egypt, e.g., Philae, the worship of Osiris and Isis maintained its own until the beginning of the fifth century of our era, though this was in reality due to the support which it received from the Nubians, but, speaking generally, at this period in all other parts of Egypt Mary the Virgin and Christ had taken the places of Isis and Horus, and the "God-mother" or "mother of

1 Budge, LOLM, liii-liiii.

2 Budge, LOLM, liiii.

3 Budge, LOLM, liiii.

4 Budge, LOLM, liv.

5 Budge, LOLM, lv.

6 Budge, LOLM, lv-lvi.

7 Budge, LOLM, lvii-lviii.

8 Budge, LOLM, lviii.

 

 

the god," was no longer Isis but Mary whom the Monophysites styled θεοτοκος ["Mother of God"].1 Again, Budge remarks on the takeover of the Egyptian religion by Christianity: And the bulk of the masses in Egypt and Nubia who professed Christianity transferred to Mary the Virgin the attributes of Isis the Everlasting Mother, and to the Babe Jesus those of Horus.2 Once more Budge says, "When the Egyptians embraced Christianity they saw nothing strange in identifying [Isis] with the Virgin Mary, and her son Horus with the Babe Christ."3 Of this apparent development and transparent usurpation of the Egyptian religion by Christians, Budge concludes: It has often been said and written that the cult of Isis and Horus and the worship of Mary the Virgin and the Child are one and the same thing... 4 With all these facts in mind, the insistence that Christianity sprang up in a vacuum as a unique and new "divine revelation" appears completely ludicrous and unsustainable. Nevertheless, Budge, a pious Christian, attempts to delineate the two cults, based on the allegation that Mary was not a goddess but a "real person." However, we think the apologist does protest too much and that it is obvious the Christian myth was designed to take over the Egyptian one, with the mythical Virgin Mary composed in order to overthrow the highly popular Isis. Oddly, even in face of his protests Budge continues to make these strong comparisons between Isis and Mary, even claiming that Mary too had "raised the dead and worked other miracles." Budge persists with the parallels: Osiris, more than Horus, resembles Jesus in respect of His murder by the Jews. Isis bewailed Osiris in the shrines of Egypt, as Mary bewailed her Son at Golgotha. The seven scorpion-goddesses who attended Isis seem to have their counterpart in the seven maidens who were associated with Mary in weaving the Veil of the Temple....5 At this point, Budge tries again to differentiate the two stories, all the while assuming the Judeo-Christian tale to be "historical." In reality, the differences are slim and to be expected if Jewish priests were merely weaving Egyptian myths together with their own scriptures, which is precisely what we contend was done in the creation of the Christ and Virgin Mary characters, as well as Christianity as a whole. These peculiar attributes of Mary related by Budge that are not found in the canonical gospels, it should be noted, come from the apocryphal or "hidden" texts concerning her alleged life. As yet another example of how the Egyptian religion was copied to become "Christian revelation," Budge discusses a "little work" of magical writings called the "Lefafa Sedek," or "Bandlet of Righteousness." In the Lefafa Sedek, the Christian author claims the booklet constituted a "divine revelation" dictated to Jesus and passed along firstly to the Virgin Mary and then to the archangel Michael, who revealed its contents to the apostles. Concerning this booklet, Budge remarks, "The Lefafa Sedek is constructed on the same plan as the

1 Budge, TGE, 220-221. (Emph. added.)

2 Budge, OOER, 306.

3 Budge, ASH, 181.

4 Budge, LOLM, lix. (Emph. added.)

5 Budge, LOLM, lix-lx.

 

Egyptian Book of the Dead, and is a veritable Ethiopian Book of the Dead. But the author, who was a Christian, substitutes God for Ra, Christ for Thoth, and the Virgin Mary for Isis."1 Just like the Ritual, this Christian book was written on strips of linen and wrapped around dead bodies. Thus, we possess an apparently cut-and-dry case of Christians copying the Egyptian religion, texts and rituals, which, again, we assert was done with the gospel story itself and many other aspects of Christianity. This changeover from the Egyptian to the Christian religion occurred within the Gnostic movement as well. As Budge further states: The Egyptian Gnostics rejected many of the pagan cults of the early dynastic Egyptians, but they regarded Ra, Horus and Harpokrates [Horus the Child] as forms of their "One God of heaven," and they connected Isis with the Virgin Mary, Osiris and Serapis with Christ...2 In fact, if we were we to include the apocryphal and Gnostic texts in our investigation, we would develop a much longer list of parallels between the Egyptian and Christian religions. This significant situation regarding the virgin mother of the god serves as a perfect example of how myths are made, as in the Ritual we possess not a story of Horus being born of the virgin mother Neith but the "deceased" (through his living representative) making statements that "I am Horus" and "I am born of Neith." Thus, when we say that Horus was born of a virgin, we are not claiming this fact is laid out in a concise story but, rather, that it was indeed a characteristic of Horus long prior to the Christian era. And again, the virginbirth motif appears to have been one of the major mysteries, not to be divulged to the "vulgar masses." Hence, it was not readily written down and made publicly available. In the end, rolling all of these qualities and myths into one, we can honestly say that the Egyptian son of God Horus was born on December 25th of the Virgin Mother Isis-Mery. From all the evidence so far presented, it may further be truthfully asserted that this same statement regarding Jesus and Mary represents a mythical construct based in large part on the Egyptian religion.

1 Budge, AS, 195-196.

2 Budge, AS, 203.

 

 

 

 

As we have already seen Virgin Mothers are a common motif in the Pagan world regardless of Marital status amount of children and matter of impregnation is a very common motif in the pagan world and such examples i shall cover more later and some Ive already covered include but are not limeted to:

 

Rhea Sylvia Virgin Mother of Romulus and Remus

Alkmene/Alcemena Virgin Mother of Herakles/Hercules

Nut/Neith Virgin Mother of Ra, Osiris, Set, Horus The Elder, Isis, Nepthys, Apap, Sobek and Tutu

Isis-Meri Virgin Mother of Osiris-Aion and Horus

Mut Virgin mother of Khonsu and the entire (Marvel) Universe

Hathor Virgin mother of Osiris and Apis (Serapis)

Danae Virgin mother of Perseus 

Hera/Juno Virgin Mother of Enyo, Mars, Heaphestus and Typhon

Demeter/Ceres and Persephone/Kore Virgin Mothers of DIonysus/Bacchus

Io Virgin Mother of Epaphus

Myrrah/Maia Virgin Mother of Hermes Adonis and Dionysus 

Maya Royal Queen of Heaven Virgin Mother of Buddha

Aditi Virgin Mother of Vishnu and Mitra

Devaki Virgin mother of Krishna

Cybele/Nana Virgin Mother of Attis

Anahita Virgin Mother of Mithras

Athena/Minerva Virgin Mother of Ericthonius and Apollo/Dionysus

Aphrodite/Venus Virgin Mother of Eros/Cupid, Phobos, Deimos, Hermaphrodite, Harmonia, Anneus and Julius Caesar (Et Tu Judas/Brutus? than fall Caesar!)

Artemis Virgin mother of Venus as per Cicero On The Nature Of The Gods III

Gaia (Mother Earth) Virgin Mother of Uranus, Pontus, The Nymphs, The 12 Titans, Scorpio and Mithras

Olympias Virgin Mother of Alexander The Great 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Horus wasn't born on December 25th that date didn't even exist in Egypt's Calander and is ultimately irrelevant because Jebus wasn't born then!

 

 

 

 

Born on December 25th "As the annual rebirth of the sun's light, the winter solstice was important in most parts of the world. In fact, the Romans already had an ancient winter festival whose seven days bracketed the solstice.... Choosing the birth of Christ as December 25 successfully integrated long-standing popular traditions with the imagery of a new religion, and the theme of renewal is still part of Christmas." Dr. Edwin C. Krupp, Echoes of the Ancient Skies (81) "The well-known solar feast…of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date [for Christ's Nativity]." Catholic Encyclopedia, "Christmas" "An early Christian work, the 'Paschal Chronicle' (Migne ed. xcii, col. 385), tells us that every year the temples of Horus presented to worshipers, in mid-winter (or about December 25th), a scenic model of the birth of Horus. He was represented as a babe born in a stable, his mother Isis standing by. Just in the same way is the birth of Christ dramatized today in every Roman Catholic church in the world on December 25th. The Roman writer Macrobius makes the same statement about the representation of the birth of Horus in the temples…and adds that the young god was a symbol of the rebirth of the sun at that date. The fact is, at all events, beyond question. We are brought to the very threshold of Christianity. The whole world by the year 1 A.D. was familiar with the Egyptian statues or pictures of Isis with the divine babe Horus in her arms." Joseph McCabe, The Story of Religious Controversy (169) Although many people remain unaware of the real meaning behind "Christmas," one of the better known correspondences between pre-Christian religion and Christianity has been the celebration of the god's birth on the 25th of December. Nevertheless, it has been argued that this comparison is erroneous because Jesus Christ was not born on December 25th, an assertion in itself that would come as a surprise to many, since up until just a few years ago only a miniscule percentage of people knew such a fact. In any event, this argument constitutes a logical fallacy, because over the centuries since the holiday was implemented by Christian authorities, hundreds of millions of people have celebrated Jesus's birthday on December 25th, or Christmas, so named after Christ. Moreover, hundreds of millions continue to celebrate the 25th of December as the birth of Jesus Christ, completely oblivious to the notion that this date does not represent the "real" birthday of the Jewish son of God.1 In actuality, it would be highly refreshing for the facts regarding the true meaning of Christmas to be known around the world: To wit, "Christmas"—or the winter solstice— represents the birth of the sun god dating back millennia. Concerning the origins of this solar holiday vis-à-vis Christianity, the authoritative Catholic Encyclopedia states: The earliest rapprochement of the births of Christ and the sun is in [the writings of Church father] Cyprian [200-258]…"O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born…Christ should be born."

 

1 In 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives passed HR 847, officially declaring December 25th to be the birthday of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ: "Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ…"

 

 

In the fourth century, Chrysostom…says:… "But Our Lord, too, is born in the month of December…the eight before the calends of January [25 December]…, But they call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord…? Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun, He is the Sun of Justice."1 As we can see from these revealing remarks, the birth of Christ at the winter solstice has been asserted since as early as the 3rd century. Moreover, the reason for this birthdate is clearly given: This date represents "the birthday of the Sun!" Regarding Christ's birth and the establishment of Christmas, Christian apologist Thomas Thorburn relates: The earliest church commemorated it at various times from September to March, until in 354 A.D. Pope Julius I assimilated the festival with that of the birth of Mithra (December 25), in order to facilitate the more complete Christianisation of the empire.2 Thus, Christ's birth at the winter solstice was not formalized until the fourth century—and this fact demonstrates a deliberate contrivance by Christian officials to usurp other religions, as we contend the entire Christian religion was specifically created to do. Prior to its celebration as the birthday of Jesus Christ, the 25th of December/winter solstice was claimed as the birthday for a number of other gods and godmen, including the PersoRoman god Mithra and the Greek god Dionysus.3 So too, apparently, do we find this annual celebration in Egypt concerning the sun god, which represents the "birth" of the "new sun" after the "old sun" "dies" around December 21st (in the northern hemisphere), lying in his "tomb" or "cave" for three days and on December 25th being "born again." There appears to be frequent confusion regarding the dates of December 21st, 22nd and 25th . The fact is that all of them represent the time of the winter solstice, which begins at midnight on the 21st—equivalent to the morning of the 22nd—and ends at midnight on the 24th, which is the morning of December 25th. To summarize, in the solar myth the "death" of the "old sun" occurs as the days decrease in length towards the winter solstice, the word "solstice" meaning "sun stands still," as for three days the sun appears not to be moving south or north. Hence, it was considered "dead" and did not "return to life" until three days later, at midnight on December 24th, when it began its northerly journey again. Therefore, the ancients said the sun was born on December 25th . In this regard, it has been the frequent contention of writers since antiquity that the Egyptians likewise celebrated the birth of the sun at the winter solstice, a logical conclusion, considering the reverence with which the sun was held in Egypt. Concerning this cycle in Egypt, in "Isis and Osiris" (ch. 65), Plutarch remarked that Horus—or "Harpocrates," his Greek name—was "born about the winter solstice, unfinished and infant-like..."4 A couple of centuries after Plutarch, in his Saturnalia (I, XVIII:10), ancient Latin writer of the fourth century Macrobius also reported on this annual Egyptian "Christmas" celebration: …at the winter solstice the sun would seem to be a little child, like that which the Egyptians bring forth from a shrine on an appointed day, since the day is then at its shortest and the god is accordingly shown as a tiny infant.5

1 CE, "Christmas."

2 Thorburn, 33.

3 Thomson, 481.

4 King, 56; cf. Babbitt, 153.

5 Macrobius/Davies, 129. The original Latin of this paragraph in Macrobius is: "…ut parvulus videatur hiemali solstitio, qualem Aegyptii proferunt ex adyto die certa, quod tunc brevissimo die veluti parvus et infans videatur…"

 

 

 

 

As to the antiquity of the Egyptian winter-solstice, solar-birth drama depicted by Plutarch and Macrobius, Professor Orlando P. Schmidt makes some interesting claims regarding the Egyptian king Amenemhet or Amenemhat I (c. 1991/1985-c. 1962/1956 BCE), called in Greek "Amenemes" or "Ammenemes," founder of the 12th dynasty: Now, as the sun of the Sothiac year reached the winter solstice in the seventeenth year of the reign of King Amenemes I, he assumed the title of Nem-mestu, meaning "Re-born," in commemoration of his birth as Harpokrates.1 Thus, according to Schmidt the birth of Harpocrates at the winter solstice apparently dates back to almost 2,000 years prior to the Christian era, a tradition evidently verified by Plutarch. This epithet "Nem-mestu" is the king's "Horus name" and means "repeater of births," "repetition of births" or "reborn." Regarding this title, Budge says: ..."nem mestu," i.e., "repeater of births," the allusion being to the idea that the king was like the Sun-god Re who was reborn daily; this title became a great favorite with the kings of the XIIth Dynasty.2 Budge thus verifies that this particular Horus name was indeed popular in the dynasty in question. Intriguingly, according to Budge the Egyptian word for winter solstice is nen, which would make a Horus name of "Nen-mestu" equivalent to "born of the winter solstice." Also according to Budge, citing German Egyptologist Professor Heinrich Brugsch, the hieroglyphic for the winter solstice reveals two deities holding the sun with its rays extending down over an ankh,3 the symbol of life. If these two deities surrounding the sun being given life are indeed Osiris and Isis, as they appear to be, this hieroglyph would represent a clear indication that their child, Horus, was in fact born at the winter solstice. In any case, this Horus name "repeaters of births" as a reflection of the sun god's birth, whether daily, annually or both, dates back thousands of years in Egypt, and the significance of the winter solstice in Egypt, as well as its perception as the birth of the sun god, seems evident. In the Egyptian language, Harpocrates is "Her-pa-chruti" or "Heru-pa-Chrat," "the morning sun."4 On the subject of Plutarch and Harpocrates, Budge remarks: The curious legend which Plutarch relates concerning Harpocrates and the cause of his lameness is probably based upon the passage in the history of Osiris and Isis given in a hymn to Osiris of the XVIIIth Dynasty.5 Budge never seems to return to this "curious legend," apparently coming from chapter 19 of Plutarch, which omits the pertinent part about Harpocrates representing the weak or "lame" sun of the winter solstice, as in chapter 65. Concerning the Osirian myth presented in Plutarch, in Egyptian Ideas of the Future, Budge remarks: When we examine this story by the light of the results of hieroglyphic decipherment, we find that a large portion of it is substantiated by Egyptian texts...6 Budge proceeds to name many of the most significant details from Plutarch as having been verified by hieroglyphics, including texts, inscriptions, papyri, etc. The passage from

1 Schmidt, 19.

2 Budge, EUGPB, 190.

3 Budge, AEHD, 351.

4 Budge, TM, 271-272.

5 Budge, EBD, cvi. 6 Budge, EITFL, 35.

 

 

 

Plutarch quoted here by Budge is also from chapter 19 and, again, although mentioning the birth of Harpocrates, lacks the pertinent part about the winter solstice found in chapter 65. In neither book, in fact, does Budge describe the assertion in chapter 65. Perhaps as a professed Christian, Budge did not wish to reproduce these significant remarks concerning the "Christmas" birth of the Egyptian sun god. From comments by various writers of the time, it appears there was indeed a debate as to whether or not to accept the "opinions of the Greek" with regard to Harpocrates's nature as the sun born at the winter solstice. One must therefore ask whether or not this debate about the "correctness" of the ancient Greeks in their assertions regarding this figure—a debate continued by apologists today—has been based on scientific reasoning or religious prejudice, representing an intentional suppression and censorship of pertinent data. And, if the bulk of Plutarch's summary of the myth of Osiris, Isis and Horus is sustainable through Egyptian writings, as Budge himself states, can we not assume that this winter-solstice part would be reliable as well? If Horus was not born at the winter solstice, why does Plutarch state that he was, in his form as Harpocrates or Horus the Child? Why does Macrobius record an Egyptian festival of apparent antiquity that celebrated the birth of the baby sun at the winter solstice? Would the Egyptians—who were so keenly aware of astronomy, solar mythology and astrotheology—truly be completely oblivious to, or deliberately unaffected by, the revered status of the sun at the winter solstice? Certainly the Egyptians were highly conscious of the all-important solstices—as demonstrated abundantly by the alignments of their monuments—could they possibly fail to integrate them into their solar religion? Indeed, according to Budge the solstices were personified as gods. In fact, Budge claims that the personification of the winter solstice is the god "Ap-uat,"1 while Renouf says Apuat is "identical with Osiris."2 Thus, Osiris would represent the winter solstice, making this time of year highly significant to the Egyptians. Furthermore, it is agreed that in Egypt "the summer solstice was paramount, for it heralded the rise of the Nile."3 As Herodotus states, the Nile began to overflow around the summer solstice—specifically named as such by Herodotus (1:19). The Greek historian further remarks that the river continues to rise for about 100 days, at which point it levels off and then starts to drop again, remaining low throughout winter.4 This life-giving time of year was so important to the Egyptians that at periods over the millennia they opened the new year with the summer inundation of the Nile. During other periods, apparently, the year began at the winter solstice, which would be indicative that such a time was considered the "birth of the sun," as in so many other cultures. In Horae Aegyptiacae: Or, the Chronology of Ancient Egypt, Discovered from Astronomical and Hieroglyphic Records Upon Its Monuments, Egyptologist and professor of Archaeology Dr. Reginald Stuart Poole, another Keeper at the British Museum, states: "The Season of the Waters," in the ancient nomenclature, plainly shows that the Tropical Year to which that nomenclature was originally applied commenced at the winter solstice, and not at, nor near, either of the equinoxes, or the summer solstice... Thus we find that the true period of the commencement of "the Season of the Inundation" was one month before the autumnal equinox; and the end, at the winter

1 Budge, TGE, 264.

2 Renouf, 99.

3 Lockyer, TDA, 57.

4 Herodotus, 92-93

 

 

 

solstice; and, consequently, that the Tropical Year anciently in use among the Egyptians commenced at the winter solstice, when all things in Egypt begin anew.1 Obviously, the Egyptians were well aware of the winter solstice, which they evidently identified with Osiris and other gods at some point and which during certain eras or in various places opened with Egyptian year. Concerning these important times of the year, astronomer Sir Lockyer remarks: Did the ancients know anything about these solstices and these equinoxes? That is one of the questions which we have to discuss. Dealing with the monumental evidence in Egypt alone, the answer is absolutely overwhelming.2 Lockyer next describes a number of astronomical alignments of various monuments and buildings in Egypt, beginning with the temple enclosure at Karnak. Calling the temple of Amen-Ra at Karnak the "finest Egyptian solar temple" and "the most majestic ruin in the world,"3 Lockyer dated its foundation to 3700 BCE, using astronomical measurements.4 Encompassing twice the area covered by St. Peter's in Rome, the complex comprised "two temples in the same line back to back, the chief one facing the sunset at the summer solstice, the other probably the sunrise at the winter solstice."5 Concerning the smaller temple, Lockyer states: The amplitude of the point to which the axis of the small temple points is 26º S. of E., exactly the position of sunrise at the winter solstice. There is more evidence of this kind....6 Lockyer then discusses the colossal statues of Amenhetep III on the plain of Thebes, which were oriented to watch "for the rising of the sun at the winter solstice."7 Astronomer Dr. Edwin C. Krupp likewise comments on the winter-solstice alignment of Egyptian buildings: Winter solstice sunrise alignment was also found at the solar sanctuary in Hatshepsut's mortuary temple at Deir el-Bahri, and these sanctuaries were linked with the Egyptian beliefs about the passage of Re through the netherworld and the transformation of the soul of the deceased pharaoh.8 The Temple of Amun-Ra at Abu Simbel, built by Ramses II, ranks as another edifice aligned with sunrise at the winter solstice.9 In the Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt ("EAAE") appears a discussion of the small temple at Aghurmi in the Siwa Oasis. This temple possesses a window in the west wall of the sanctuary that connects with an opposite window opposite, producing a lightshaft which illuminates the "god's barge naos in the center of the sanctuary." EAAE then states:

1 Poole, 4-5.

2 Lockyer, Nature, 10.

3 Lockyer, TDA, 99.

4 Lockyer, TDA, 119.

5 Lockyer, TDA, 102.

6 Lockyer, Nature, 57.

7 Lockyer, Nature, 57; TDA, 79.

8 Krupp, xii.

9 Clark, 147, 193.

 

 

 

 

The fact that Onuris and Tefnut are represented right next to this window and the mythology connected with these two gods suggest that occurrence of this event to have coincided with the winter solstice.1 Hence, we find multiple astronomical alignments proving that the ancient Egyptians highly valued the winter solstice. Moreover, a number of ancient Egyptian water clocks, such as at Karnak, were designed to measure the winter and summer solstices.2 Indeed, that the Egyptians were keen measurers of time may be seen in an inscription from the tomb of the Karnak clock's creator, a "certain official" named Amenemhet who was buried "near the top of the hill of Sheikh Abd el-Gurna in Western Thebes." This very ancient inscription describes the measurements of the "longest night of wintertime" and the "shortest night of summertime," the former of which, of course, would be the winter solstice and the latter, the summer. This inscription also refers to Egyptian sacred literature as "the books of the divine word,"3 demonstrating the reverence with which these texts were held, no less than the holy books of today. The official in question dedicated his clock to Amenhotep I, who reigned in the 18th Dynasty, during the 16th century BCE. In Ancient Egyptian Science, professor of Historical Studies Dr. Marshall Clagett (1916- 2005) depicts another ancient Egyptian clock used to measure the equinoxes and solstices: The first (and indeed only) Egyptian technical description of an ancient Egyptian shadow clock is found in an inscription in the cenotaph of Seti I (ca. 1306-1290 [BCE])...4 Dr. Clagett also describes an Egyptian sundial from Luxor that apparently dates to the "Greco-Roman period" and that possesses marks to measure, among other things, the winter solstice.5 As another example of Egyptian astronomical knowledge and the particular importance of the winter solstice, in 46 BCE famed Alexandria astronomer Sosigenes created a new solar calendar for Julius Caesar, called the Julian Calendar: "The new system, depending wholly on the sun, would naturally have commenced with the winter solstice,"6 called bruma in Latin, one source of the Roman celebration the Brumalia.7 In The Sacred Tradition in Ancient Egypt, Rosemary Clark describes another festival that purportedly took place on the winter solstice: As the winter solstice denotes the literal decline of solar light, festivals celebrated at this time are connected with the renewal of the life force. One of these festivals was the annual raising of the Djed pillar of Asar [Osiris] at his great temple at Busiris in Lower Egypt. This was a symbolic restoration of the Neter's [God's] life, an event

1 EAAE, 742.

2 So closely have the Egyptian gods been associated with time that it has been repeatedly claimed that the name Horus has been brought forth into English in the word "hours." In his translation of Diodorus, Edwin Murphy—who is not prone to fantasy—remarks, "Horus was also said to have first divided the day into hours, which still reflect his name." (Siculus/Murphy, 32, footnote 51.)

3 Clagett, 69-70.

4 Clagett, 84, 86-87.

5 Clagett, 96-97.

6 Froude, 425.

7 The dates of the Brumalia, a Bacchic or Dionysian festival, have been reckoned as March 12th and September 18th. However, Bell relates that "there are others who say that the Brumalia was a religious festival, celebrated on the day of the winter solstice." This confusion evidently comes from two different terms as the basis for "Brumalia," one referring to the "shortest day" and the other to Bacchus/Dionysus. (Bell, 141)

 

 

which followed a ritual reenactment of an episode in the great Osirian mythos, The Contendings of Heru [Horus] and Set. It took place, according to ancient records, on the 30th of Choiach [Khoiak], a time coinciding with the end of the Nile's inundation over the land. In our calendar the festival begins on December 10 and culminates at the winter solstice (December 22).1 The djed-pillar is a very ancient "cult icon of Osiris" that was "erected in a rite symbolizing Osiris's revivification after death."2 The raising of the djed-pillar at Busiris is mentioned in chapter 18 of the Book of the Dead. The month of Choiach/Khoiak/Koiak corresponding to December comes from the Coptic calendar and is presumably an accurate rendering of an ancient Egyptian dating system. In Calendrical Calculations, Professors Dershowitz and Reingold state: The Christian Copts, modern descendants of the Pharaonic Egyptians, use a calendar based on the ancient Egyptian solar calendar...but with leap years.3 Dershowitz and Reingold further say that "the Copts celebrate Christmas on Koiak 29 (which is always either December 25 or 26 on the Julian calendar)..."4 Modern Egyptians also still celebrate a festival around the vernal equinox called "Sham elNessim," or "Shamo," which traditionally occurs in April and closely resembles the Western celebration of Easter. Since this spring festival is estimated to date to at least 4,500 years ago, it would be reasonable to assert that comparable winter-solstice celebrations may approach that age in Egypt as well. Knowing all these facts, it is logical and rational to assume that Plutarch and Macrobius were not in error in their reports about the Egyptian sun god celebrated at the winter solstice. If Macrobius is correct in his assertions that the Egyptians brought out an image of the baby sun at the winter solstice, we have no credible, scientific reason to dismiss Plutarch's statement regarding Harpocrates/Horus being this baby sun born at the winter solstice, especially since many of his contentions can be verified by the hieroglyphics, as stated by Budge. In fact, the "restoration of Osiris" at the winter solstice—which would essentially constitute his rebirth in Horus—is also related by Plutarch: Moreover, at the time of the winter solstice they lead the cow seven times around the temple of the Sun and this circumambulation is called the Seeking for Osiris, since the Goddess in the winter-time yearns for water; so many times do they go around, because in the seventh month the Sun completes the transition from the winter solstice to the summer solstice. It is said also that Horus, the son of Isis, offered sacrifice to the Sun first of all on the fourth day of the month, as is written in the records entitled the Birthdays of Horus.5 Although here Plutarch discusses Osiris's water aspect, logic would indicate that the god's solar nature was also being sought at the winter solstice, when the sun is viewed as "weakening," "dying" or otherwise diminishing, in line with the shortening days of the years. Furthermore, the "Seeking of Osiris" at the solstice is confirmed by the conservative Encyclopedia Britannica as one of the Egyptians' "most characteristic celebrations":

1 Clark, 131.

2 Allen, J., TAEPT, 428.

3 Dershowitz, 73.

4 Dershowitz, 77.

5 Plutarch/Babbitt, 127

 

 

Among those most characteristic celebrations of the Egyptians were those which took place at the αφανισµος or disappearance of Osiris in October or November, at the search for his remains, and their discovery about the winter solstice...1 The discovery of Osiris's remains at the winter solstice means that he was "born again" at that time, since he was thereafter resuscitated. Because Horus and Osiris were one and interchangeable, the new sun replacing the old, it could be truthfully stated that the "rebirth" of Osiris at the winter solstice represents the "new birth" of Horus. Hence, again we find Horus being born on December 25th . The winter-solstice motif is also represented in the story related by Plutarch of Osiris being shut up in his ark during the sign of Scorpio, the "backbiter," who robs the sun of its strength as it nears the death of winter. Horus being killed by a scorpion would likewise represent the same theme. Obviously, it would be fascinating to inspect the ancient "records entitled the Birthdays of Horus" to which Plutarch refers. It is possible these texts could be found in the Library of Alexandria, which unfortunately was destroyed, taking with it a vast amount of human culture and knowledge, including many of these mysteries and secrets. Again, when we hear the clamor for "primary sources," we are reminded of this heinous destruction of ancient culture, often by religious fanatics trying to prevent the truth from becoming known. In the same vein as Plutarch, and quite possibly discussing the same records or text, in his treatise on the dual birthdays of Horus—one at the vernal equinox and the other at the winter solstice—Massey refers to "the Egyptian Book of the Divine Birth": The double birth of Horus at the two times, or the birth of the babe in the winter solstice and the rebirth as the adult in the Easter equinox is acknowledged in the Egyptian Book of the Divine Birth. The celebration of the Nativity at the solstice is referred to in the calendar of Edfu, and it is said that "everything is performed which is ordained" in the "Book of the Divine Birth."2 The text Massey is referring to was also mentioned by Austrian professor Dr. J. Krall, quoted by Lockyer: On the 6th of Pachons...the solstice is then celebrated. The Uza-eye is then filled, a mythical act which we have in another place referred to the celebration of the solstice, and "everything is performed which is ordained" in the book "on the Divine birth."3 This solstice that is celebrated on the 6th of Pachons is that of the summer, once again demonstrating the significance of that time of year. The "Uza-eye" being filled apparently refers to the Eye of the Sun (Ra and/or Horus) approaching its culminating strength at the summer solstice. According to Lockyer, Krall also discusses an inscription discovered at both Edfu and Esne "which seems to have astronomical significance." This inscription describes a feast day during the period of "1. Phamenoth" called the "Festival of the suspension of the sky by Ptah" or the "Feast of the suspension of the sky."4 In chapter 43 of "Isis and Osiris," Plutarch also remarks upon a festival that falls on the new moon in the month of Phamenoth called "Osiris's coming to the Moon," which the historian says "marks the beginning of

1 EB, 221.

2 Massey, AE, 572.

3 Lockyer, TDA, 284-285.

4 Lockyer, TDA, 284.

 

 

 

spring."1 However, Krall clarifies these festivals as being "connected with the celebration of the Winter Solstice, and the filling of the Uza-eye..." He then continues: Perhaps the old year, which the Egyptians introduced into the Nile valley at the time of their immigration, and which had only 360 days, commenced at the Winter Solstice. Thus we should have in the "festival of the suspension of the sky" by the ancient god Ptah—venerated as creator of the world—a remnant of the time when the Winter Solstice...marked the beginning of the year, and also the creation.2 As we have seen on the very good authority of Dr. Poole, the Egyptian year at one point apparently began with the winter solstice. Adding to this notion is the suggestion that this period preceded the adjustment of the Egyptian 360-calendar with the addition of the five intercalary or epagomenal days. The god Ptah is the very ancient Father-Creator figure who, in "suspending the sky," resembles other Egyptian deities such as Isis and Horus with arms outstretched in the vault of heaven, as well as the Greek god Atlas supporting the world on his shoulders, and various renderings of the Christian Father and Son depicted as holding up the heavens. In On Mankind: Their Origin and Destiny, Arthur Thomson summarizes the story of the baby sun at the winter solstice, who was born of a virgin mother, specifically as applied to Horus and Isis: The Egyptians did in fact celebrate at the winter solstice the birth of the son of Isis (Plut. De Iside), and the delivery of the goddess who had brought this young child into the world, feeble and weak, and in the midst of the darkest night. This child, according to Macrobius, was the god of light, Apollo, or the sun, painted with his head shorn of his beaming hair, his head shaved, and with only a single hair left. By this, says Macrobius, the dimness of the light at the winter solstice, and the shortness of the days as well as the darkness of the deep cave in which this god seemed to be born, and from which he issued forth to rise in the direction of the northern hemisphere and the summer solstice, in which he reassumed his dominion and his glory, was indicated… It was this child of whom the virgin Isis called herself the mother in the inscription over her temple at Sais (Plut. De Iside) which contained the words, "The fruit which I have begotten is the sun." (Procl. in Tim. p. 30). This Isis of Sais has been correctly assumed by Plutarch to be the chaste Minerva, who, without fearing to lose her name of virgin, nevertheless says of herself that she is the mother of the sun. This Isis cannot be the moon, for she would never be called the mother of the star whose light she borrows. She is the Virgin of the constellations, who is called by Eratosthenes, a learned Alexandrian (Eratosthen. cap. vii.), Ceres or Isis; that Isis who opened the year, and presided over the birth of the new solar revolution, and of the god of day—in a word, of her in whose arms we shall soon see the symbolic child.3 As another version of the solar hero, the Greek god Dionysus too was asserted to have been born at the winter solstice, when his followers held a wild celebration in his and the sun god Apollo's honor.4 This winter-solstice birth may also have come with Dionysus's identification with Osiris, since, as Plutarch states (35), "Osiris is identical with Dionysus."5

1 Plutarch/Babbitt, 105-106.

2 Lockyer, TDA, 284.

3 Thomson, 468-469.

4 Sophocles, 136fn.

5 Plutarch/Babbitt, 85.

 

 

Concerning winter solstice "Feasts and Festivals," the Encyclopedia Britannica further reports: The common people in China have a similar custom on the arrival of the winter solstice... ...The Phrygian festivals were also arranged on the theory that the deity was asleep during the winter and awake during the summer...1 The EB also names several other cultures as having winter celebrations, including the Mexicans and Peruvians. Of course, the Romans were famed for their lengthy winter festival of Saturnalia, which encompassed the solstice. Even the lunar Jews had their winter holiday, or "Feast of the Dedication," as mentioned in John 10:22. As we can see, the celebration at the winter solstice represents an ancient tradition. 2 Christian Sun Worship? The fact that this highly important solar festival was not added to the Christ myth until centuries after the purported advent of Jesus does not make it any less significant or him any less of a solar hero himself. Indeed, so common was the claim that Christians worshipped the sun that Church fathers such as Tertullian (c. 155-230) and Augustine (354- 430) were compelled to write refutations of it. In Ad Nationes (I, 13), Tertullian writes: The Charge of Worshipping the Sun Met by a Retort. …Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. What then? Do you do less than this? Do not many among you, with an affectation of sometimes worshipping the heavenly bodies likewise, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise? Once more, in his Apology (16), Tertullian addresses what appears to be a widespread insight that he surprisingly asserts comes from those with "more information" and "greater verisimilitude" or truth: …Others, again, certainly with more information and greater verisimilitude, believe that the sun is our god. We shall be counted Persians perhaps, though we do not worship the orb of day painted on a piece of linen cloth, having himself everywhere in his own disk. The idea no doubt has originated from our being known to turn to the east in prayer. But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. These contentions of Christian sun worship evidently continued well into the fifth century, as St. Augustine also was forced to address them in his Tractates on the Gospel of John (34).3 Adding to the suggestion of sun worship, the orientation of Christian churches towards solar alignments is well known, as explained by Sir Lockyer: All our churches are more or less oriented, which is a remnant of old sun-worship. Any church that is properly built today will have its axis pointing to the rising of the sun on the Saint's Day, i.e., a church dedicated to St. John ought not to be parallel to a church dedicated to St. Peter.... Certainly in the early centuries the churches

1 EB, 220.

2 A more in-depth study of the subject is provided in my book Suns of God.

3 For more on the subject of Christianity and sun worship, see my books The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God.

 

 

 

were all oriented to the sun, so the light fell on the altar through the eastern doors at sunrise.1 There are in reality numerous astrotheological characteristics within Christianity, many of which can be found in my books The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God. It is likely that anyone who wished to turn the popular and powerful sun god into a Jewish messiah, as we contend was done, would not immediately attach anything so obvious as the most popular solar festival—the birth of the sun god himself—to the myth they were attempting to propagate as "history." The fact that this celebration eventually was added to the expanding Christian mythology indicates: 1. The powers that be had some inkling as to what they were dealing with, i.e., a solar myth; and 2. No birthday of Jesus was previously celebrated to any significant degree. Indeed, the December 25th date is in reality one of many birthdays for Christ proposed by the various Church fathers and Christian authorities over the centuries.2 If Jesus Christ were a historical figure, it is perplexing that no one knew his real birthday and that there were so many suggestions, a number of which also possessed astronomical or astrotheological meaning. In the end, the December 25th birthday represents the birth not of the Jewish messiah but of the sun.

1 Lockyer, TDA, 95-96.

2 Acharya/Murdock, SOG, 231, et seq.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"There is no Parallel between Horus vs Set and Jesus vs Satan"

 

 

 

Horus versus Set "The Christian Trinity ousted the old triads of gods, Osiris and Horus were represented by our Lord Jesus Christ, Isis by the Virgin Mary, Set the god of evil by Diabolus [Satan]…and the various Companies of the Gods by the Archangels, and so on." Dr. E.A. Wallis Budge, Egyptian Tales and Romances (12) "The god Seth, called Typhon by the Greek writers, was the Satan of later Egyptian mythology. He was the personification of the evil in the world, just as Osiris was the personification of the good." Philip Van Ness Myers, Ancient History (38) "Horus is presented in manifold aspects in Egyptian mythology. Mainly as the vindicator of the principle of Good; as the avenger of his father, Osiris, who succumbed temporarily in his struggle against Evil embodied in the god Set, who corresponds to our Satan. Set was represented as a beast with long pointed ears and erect tail, and may perhaps be the origin of the popular representations of Satan, the ears having come to be regarded as horns." H. Villiers Stuart, Egypt After the War (191) Despite the misconception that the ancients were primitive, many cultures of old were in reality highly sophisticated, as evidenced not only by their impressive architectural accomplishments such as the massive ruins around the world, but also by other artifacts such as political organization, language development and philosophical achievement. One of these advanced cultures was that of Egypt, which created along with its magnificent edifices such as the Great Pyramid and the Temple complex at Karnak both a sophisticated cosmology and an elegant writing system in which to express it. When we examine the religious and mythological beliefs of the Egyptians, in fact, we discover there is little theological they did not consider and incorporate into their faith that we possess in modern religions today. In other words, the Egyptians in particular not only were highly spiritual but also either originated or developed many of the cosmological and theological concepts found in current popular religions, such as the afterlife, immortality, heaven, deity and so on. One of the main religions in which we find the most apparent Egyptian influence is Christianity, in both its myths and rituals. Like many other faiths, the Egyptian and Christian religions share a strong overall theme of good versus evil and light versus dark. In the case of the Egyptian religion, good and evil were manifested in several gods, including and especially Horus and Set, while their Christian counterparts are Jesus and Satan. As we explore the original Egyptian mythos and ritual upon which much of Christianity was evidently founded, it needs to be kept in mind that the gods Osiris and Horus in particular were frequently interchangeable and combined, as in "I and the Father are one." (Jn 10:30) In fact, as part of the mythos, Osiris was "re-born under the form of Horus," as we have seen. This particular development exists in significant part because these figures are largely sun gods, and when one sun god "dies," as is the case with Osiris daily, monthly and annually, another replaces him and becomes him, as happens with Horus taking the place of his father. Like Osiris's many followers, whose prayers included a request to become "the Osiris" in the afterlife, so too does Horus become his father upon Osiris's demise, which is caused by these sun gods' enemy, the serpent of the night and Prince of Darkness, Set.

 

To reiterate, as is the case with myths around the world, the story of Osiris was not neatly laid out in an entry in an ancient encyclopedia, but, rather, appears in bits and pieces in ancient sources such as the Pyramid Texts and the Book of the Dead, which were compiled and altered over a period of centuries to millennia, beginning more than 6,000 years ago and ending well before the so-called Christian era. Nevertheless, nearly 2,000 years ago Plutarch did tell the cyclical myth of Osiris/Horus in some detail and in a fairly cohesive manner as a story. In the commonly known depiction of his death, the good god Osiris is killed by his evil brother Set, who first encloses the god in a container or "ark" and later dismembers him into 14 pieces, scattering the parts around Egypt.1 In the version by Plutarch, Osiris's wifesister, Isis, finds most of the pieces, except Osiris's phallus, and eventually Osiris is resurrected and returns from the "other world" to instruct his son Horus to battle and defeat "Typhon," the Greek name for the god Set. Concerning the conflict between Osiris and Set, Budge remarks, "Details of the engagement are wanting, but the Pyramid Texts state that the body of Osiris was hurled to the ground by Set at a place called Netat, which seems to have been near Abydos."2 The Pyramid Texts, in fact, contain another, older version of Osiris's death, in which he was said to have been drowned by Set, or Seth. 3 According to a later magical papyrus, this drowning took place in the "water of the underworld." This aspect of the myth is interesting in light of the fact that in Greek mythology the sun god Helios was said to have been drowned in the river Eridanus or "Jordan," in which Jesus was likewise said to have been baptized or dunked.4 The earliest versions of Osiris's passion5 depict Set simply as slaying the god, without the ark and the dismemberment, while later sources attach 72 villainous helpers to assist in Set's murderous crime against Osiris.6 The story of Osiris being entombed in a tree and found by Isis at the city of Byblos in Phoenicia, also related by Plutarch, is later than the one in which his parts are simply tossed around Egypt.7 The Byblos tale may have been added by the Egyptians after 1500 BCE in order to explain the similar myth of the dying-and-rising god Adonis-Tammuz in that part of the Near East.8 The Astrotheology of the Passion Although appearing bizarre and incomprehensible, like so many other myths, the story of Osiris's death possesses underlying astrotheological meaning that makes sense and teaches

 

1 Diodorus relates that the pieces numbered 26. However, Murphy notes that, as the god became more popular, so too did his parts, eventually numbering 42 for each of the Egyptian nomes. This increase occurred as each priesthood wished to claim a relic for its own "tomb of Osiris," reflection of the enormous relics industry that continues to this day with countless bogus artifacts of the Christian faith. (For more, see The Christ Conspiracy, Suns of God and Who Was Jesus?)

 

2 Budge, LEG, xlix.

 

3 Griffiths, 9.

 

4 In the Egyptian, the Jordan is called "Iurutana." (Cooper, AAD, 259.) This is the same term for the constellation of the river Eridanus.

 

5 The term "passion" refers to the sufferings of the god and does not belong exclusively to the Christian faith, despite the biases and oversights of dictionaries, and the spurious claims of Christian apologists. Osiris's sufferings have been referred to as a "passion" by numerous writers for a century or more, including by Professor Franz Cumont, who related: "Since the time of the twelfth dynasty, and probably much earlier, there had been held at Abydos and elsewhere a sacred performance similar to the mysteries of our Middle Ages, in which the events of Osiris's passion and resurrection were reproduced." (Cumont, 98.)

 

6 Gray, 114.

 

7 Gray, 114.

 

8 Gray, 120.

 

 

some of the important workings of the natural world. As Plutarch relates, Osiris was entombed in the ark on the 17th day of the month of Athyr, "when the sun passes through Scorpion [sic]," and in the 28th year of either his reign or his life.1 Coincidentally, the 17th of Athyr is equivalent to the same day that the equally mythical biblical character Noah was said to have been shut up in his ark, the patriarch too having been identified as a sun god or solar hero. The notion that Osiris was 28 when he suffered his passion is also interesting, in light of the fact that Jesus was likewise said to have been around 28-30 when he began his ministry, depending on the source. Indeed, one early Christian tradition also places Christ's passion at when he was "only twenty eight, and one-quarter years of life,"2 quite possibly in imitation of the Osiris myth. In the solar myth, the enclosure in the ark during the zodiacal sign of Scorpio (October 24- November 22) symbolizes the weakening of the sun as it approaches the winter solstice. The number 28 is likewise astrotheological and represents the days of an average or mean monthly lunation, after which the soli-lunar god Osiris is torn into 14 pieces—the number 14 signifying the days of the moon's waning per month—and then resurrected, as the moon waxes again. As Plutarch remarks, "The Egyptians have a legend that the end of Osiris's life came on the seventeenth of the month, on which day it is quite evident to the eye that the period of the full moon is over."3 Plutarch further explains the astrotheological meaning of the Osiris myth: Some say that the years of Osiris's life, others that the years of his reign, were twenty-eight; for that is the number of the moon's illuminations, and in that number of days does she complete her cycle. The wood which they cut on the occasions called the "burials of Osiris" they fashion into a crescent-shaped coffer because of the fact that the moon, when it comes near the sun, becomes crescent-shaped and disappears from our sight. The dismemberment of Osiris into fourteen parts they refer allegorically to the days of the waning of that satellite from the time of the full moon to the new moon….4 Regarding this tale, astronomer Dr. Edwin C. Krupp, Director of the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles, remarks: The numbers are significant. Although the moon completes its phases in 29½ days, the number 28 was used symbolically for this interval.... The 14 pieces of the body of Osiris sound like the 14 days of the waning, or "dying" moon, and on the main ceiling of the Dendera temple are inscriptions and pictorial reliefs that leave no doubt. In one panel, an eye, installed in a disk, is transported in a boat. The eye, we know, was a symbol of the sun or moon. Thoth, the ibis-headed scribe god of wisdom and knowledge, pilots the barge. Thoth was closely associated with the moon and counted the days and seasons. The text for this panel refers to the period after the full moon, and 14 gods accompany the eye in the disk.5 In addition, the 72 "co-conspirators" in the later version of the tale likewise possess astrotheological meaning, representing the 72 dodecans, or divisions of the circle of the zodiac into 5 degrees each. Interestingly, in the gospel story Jesus is depicted with either 70 or 72 "disciples," the number 70 often symbolizing the dodecans as well. Also, the drowning of Osiris in the "river" Eridanus evidently signifies the god's passage through the

 

1 Plutarch, ch. 13; Babbitt, 37.

 

2 Catholic Encyclopedia, "Christmas."

 

3 Plutarch, ch. 42; Babbitt, 103.

 

4 Plutarch, ch. 42; Babbitt, 103. 5 Krupp, 18.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well-known constellation of the same name. It is likely that the Jordan river, biblical site of so many purported miracles, was named after its apparent stellar counterpart, with said "miracles" also taking place not on Earth but in the heavens. Furthermore, the subsequent avenging of Osiris's murder by his son(s) Horus also constitutes an astrotheological motif. In the myth, Horus the first son of Osiris and Isis is already alive before Typhon/Set tears Osiris's body into 14 pieces.1 Osiris is depicted by Plutarch as later coming from "the other world" to train this Horus to battle Typhon, also called Seth. 2 At a certain point, the other, newborn Horus becomes the avenger of his father's death by killing Set. These different Horuses nevertheless symbolize the one sun in various phases of its "life." The battle between Horus and Set is mentioned in many places in Egyptian texts, in which the dynamic duo is called, among other things, the "Two Combatants" and the "Divine Pair."3 The story of this conflict includes various details such as Horus's association with Ra in attempting to destroy Set, as well as numerous other characters such as the blacksmiths on Horus's side and the vast army of "bad guys" with Set. Some of these particulars signify astrotheological elements added as the science of astronomy became more sophisticated. For example, Horus's battle with Set depicted in the inscriptions at the relatively late site of Edfu includes him slaying Set's monsters, the crocodile and hippopotamus, which symbolize two of the "circumpolar stars" that are "washed out" or removed from sight when the sun's rays appear on the horizon.4 With or without the details, of course, the contention between Horus and Set ultimately represents the battle of good versus evil and light versus dark. Who is Set? One of the five children of Seb, the earth-god, and Nut, the sky-goddess, Set is described in chapter 17 of the Book of the Dead/Ritual as "that god who steals souls, who laps up corruption, who lives on what is putrid, who is in charge of darkness, who is immersed in gloom, of whom those who are among the languid ones are afraid."5 As the one "who is in charge of darkness," Set "comes to carry off the light."6 Regarding Set's role, Lewis Spence remarks, "As the days began to shorten and the nights to lengthen it was thought that he stole the light from the sun-god."7 Hence, Set is a thief in the night who robs Osiris/Horus of his strength and life. As the monster that prevents the sun from shining, Set also symbolizes storm clouds: This battle may likewise be found in the sky by day when storm-clouds darken the face of the sun, so that the myth of the serpent and the solar deity Re merges into the old story of the conflict between Horus and Seth. Thus the serpent becomes more and more identical with Seth, as being an additional manifestation of the wicked god who later is said to have fought against Horus in the form of other water monsters as well, such as the hippopotamus and the crocodile. This confusion of 'Apop and Seth, however, does not take place until after the Eighteenth Dynasty.8 Prior to this identification of Set with the monster Apophis, enemy of the sun god Ra, Set was not always considered "evil" but was worshipped as a divine being, evidenced by the pharaonic choice of the name "Seti." At a certain point, however, Set is demonized:

 

1 Plutarch, ch. 18; Babbitt, 45.

 

2 Plutarch, ch. 41; Babbitt, 101, 121, 147.

 

3 Renouf, 140.

 

4 Lockyer, 151.

 

5 Faulkner, pl 10.

 

6 Bonwick, 133.

 

7 Spence, AEML, 100.

 

8 Gray, 107.

 

 

The last king bearing Seth's name belongs to the Twentieth Dynasty, about 1200 B.C. The interesting evolution of this god into a Satan is due to the influence of the Babylonian myth of Tiamat.1 It has also been claimed that, like the monstrous Tiamat, Set himself was originally a Semitic god imported into Egypt,2 an interesting assertion in light of the contention that Set is equivalent to Satan, the word "Satan" being related to the Hebrew or Semitic term shaytan, meaning "adversary," and later adopted into Christianity. Regarding Set/Seth, James Bonwick remarks: [French Egyptologist] Pleyte has no doubt about Set being the El or Elohim of the East, and the same as Baal. Finding that curious passage in the book of Numbers about the destruction of the sons of Seth, he says, "It is probable that the Septuagint meant by the 'Sons of Seth,' the people who rendered homage to the god Seth (Set), the same divinity who was adored in Egypt by the Palestino-Asiatic tribes."3 Concerning the "children of Seth" at Numbers 24:17, Samuel Sharpe remarks, "Seth is an Egyptian name for Satan, and by the children of Seth, the Samaritans seem meant."4 Moreover, Louis Gray calls Seth "the general patron of Asiatics and of warriors,"5 and Prof. A.H. Sayce writes: Set or Sut became for the later Egyptians the impersonation of evil. He was identified with Apophis, the serpent of wickedness, against whom the sun-god wages perpetual war; and his name was erased from the monuments on which it was engraved. But all this was because Set was the god and the representative of the Asiatic invaders who had conquered Egypt, and aroused in the Egyptian mind a feeling of bitter animosity towards themselves.6 Therefore, it would appear that the Egyptian god Set was originally one of the Semitic Elohim, the plural gods worshipped by the Israelites.7 As we have seen, the villain in the myth revolving around the sun god Ra is named Apophis, Apop, Apap, Apep or Apepi, all variants of the same word. Like the myth of Horus versus Set, Ra battles on a daily basis the great serpent of the night sky, Apap, defeating him at dawn. Apophis is the "devourer" and the "fiend of darkness."8 Regarding the serpent motif, Stuart states: ...It is remarkable that Satan—our evil principle—is spoken of also as the Great Serpent, and like Apop is represented as chained in the bottomless pit.9 Another transliterated Egyptian title for the destructive and fiendish serpent is "Sata," as found in Wilson's translation of the Papyrus of Nu, which reads: I am the serpent Sata whose years are many. I die and I am born again each day. I am the serpent Sata which dwelleth in the uttermost parts of the earth. I die, and I am born again, and I renew myself, and I grow young each day.1

 

1 Gray, 392.

2 Bonwick, 130.

3 Bonwick, 135.

4 Sharpe, 28.

5 Gray, 155.

6 Sayce, 162.

7 Cf. "The Myth of Hebrew Monotheism" in The Christ Conspiracy.

8 Spence, 13.

9 Stuart, 345.

 

 

In his Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary, using the same transliteration Budge calls Sata the "serpent-fiend in the Tuat."2 The Tuat or Duat is defined as "a very ancient name for the land of the dead, and of the Other World."3 The "land of the dead" and "other world" also signify the "cave," "tomb" or "underworld" of the nightly terrain through which Osiris (or Ra) must pass daily, to be born again at sunrise as his son, Horus.4 This journey is described in the ancient Egyptian book "Am Tuat," as summarized by Budge: When the Sun-god set in the west in the evening he was obliged to travel through the Tuat to the eastern sky, in order to rise again on this earth the following day.5 Thus, Apophis/Sata is the same as the monster Typhon/Set battled every day by Horus. In other words, all of these names—Apap, Apep, Apepi, Apop, Apophis, Seth, Set, Sut, Sutu, Sata—represent epithets for the same god or phenomenon: Both "the Arch-Enemy of Osiris, and the personification of Evil,"6 as well as "the Arch-fiend and great Enemy of Ra."7 Thus, it can be truthfully stated that Set is Satan, and the battle between Jesus and Satan—Light v. Darkness—represents a formulaic rehash of the far more ancient contention between Horus and Set. Indeed, if Set is Satan, then Osiris/Horus is Jesus, as has been maintained for centuries for this and many other reasons. Like Satan, Set rebels from his divine birth. Also like Satan, who in the Old Testament is merely "the Adversary," rather than the personification of Absolute Evil that he became in the New Testament, Seth was not always considered absolutely evil. Like Yahweh, God of the Old Testament, who was the orchestrator of both good and evil, Set is represented as the "twin" of Horus and half of a dual god as a single being, Horus-Set.8 Yet, Set is also a separate entity who becomes locked in an eternal struggle with his alter ego and enemy, Horus, and, again, at a certain point the "old thunder-god" Set became "the representative of all evil" and "a real Satan."9 Like Satan, Set/Seth too had his devoted followers—the "sons of Seth," possibly as recorded in the Old Testament and generally thought to refer to the descendants of Adam's third son Seth. Like Adam's other son Cain, who kills his brother Abel, Seth/Set is depicted as murdering his brother Osiris. And like other characters in the Old Testament, such as Abraham and Moses, in the "patriarch" Seth we seem to have yet another instance of an ancient tribal god demoted to human status. As does Satan with Jesus (Rev. 12:1-5), Set attempts to kill Horus. Set is the "god of the desert" who battles Horus, while Jesus is tempted in the desert by Satan. Like Satan, who has a forked tail, Set too is depicted with a forked tail. In fact, Set's portrayal with bizarre ears and an anteater-like snout makes him appear creepy and demonic:

 

1 Wilson, 73.

2 Budge, AEHD, 640.

3 Budge, AEHD, 871-872.

4 Cf. Murray, LAE, 50-51: "Great and mighty is the river of the sky, flowing across the heavens and through the Duat, the world of night and of thick darkness, and on that river floats the Boat of Ra…. Slowly goes the Boat of Ra, passing through the Duat, to regions of thick darkness, of horror and dismay, where the dead have their habitations, and Apep lies in wait for the coming of Ra."

5 Budge, AIAEL, 245.

6 Budge, LOLM, liii.

7 Budge, LEG, xlii.

8 Budge, FFGAE, 375. In the Pyramid Texts and elsewhere, as another one of the gods born on the five intercalary or epagomenal days completing the 365-day year, like Set, Horus the Elder is also said to be the son of Geb or Seb—the earth god and "father of the gods"—just as Jesus was the son of Joseph, the earthly father of God.

9 Gray, 109.

 

 

Seth was identified with an animal that had the body of an elongated jackal or greyhound; a long neck; a thin, curved snout; rectangular, upraised ears; and a stiff, forked tale. Seth was often portrayed with a human body and the head of this beast.1 Set is the serpent of the night, the Prince of Darkness and other qualities in line with Satan, while Horus is the "sun of righteousness" and the Prince of Light, much like Christ. As we have seen and will continue to see, there are many such correspondences between the myth of Osiris/Horus and that of Jesus. In the end, the tale of Jesus versus Satan, we contend, is equally astrotheological and mythical as the prototypical epic drama of Osiris/Horus versus Set.

 

1 World Book Encyclopedia, 321.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Horus Never Raised OsirIs from the dead he remained in the underworld! or Osiris wasnt called El azurus! 

 

 

 

 

In regards to Osiris Not being raised from the dead by Horus think again: 

 

https://books.google.ca/boo... scroll down to page 403

 

 

http://highermeaning.org/Au... scroll down to "Horus Giving Life To Osiris"

 

 

“The process of reducing the fairy-godmother's coach-and-six to the status of a one-horse cab may be seen in the Gospel according to Luke in getting rid of Osiris. The pair of sisters, Martha and Mary, appear in this Gospel, but without their brother Lazarus, and also without the resurrection. After all that has now been done towards identifying Bethany with the house in Annu [Heliopolis] and the nest of the two sisters, the two sisters with Isis and Nephthys, and the Christ with Horus, it cannot be considered far-fetched if we look upon Lazarus as a form of the Osiris that was dead and buried and raised to life again. As to the name, the Egyptian name of the Greek Osiris is Hesar, or Asar. And when we take into consideration that some of the matter came from its Egyptian source through the Aramaic and Arabic languages (witness the Arabic Gospel of the infancy) there is little difficulty, if any, in supposing that the Al (article the) has been adopted through the medium of the Arabic, or derived from the Hebrew prenominal stem אל [AL], to emphasize a thing, as in ‘the Osiris’ [the mummy], which passed into the article Al for "the" in Arabic, and was prefixed to the name of Osiris as Al-Asar, which, with the Greek "s" for suffix becomes L-azarus. The connecting link whereby Al-Asar was turned into Lazarus, the Osiris, was in all likelihood made in the Aramaic language, which had its root-relations with the Egyptian. Hieroglyphic papyri are among its monumental remains, as well as the inscription of Carpentras.”

— Gerald Massey (1907), Ancient Egypt, the Light of the Modern World, Volume Two (pgs. 264)

“The rod that is waves by Jesus at the raising of Lazarus is the symbolic scepter in the hand of Horus when he raises the Osiris. In every instance, Lazarus is a mummy made after the Egyptian fashion. It is a bandaged body that had been soaked in salt and pitch which was at times so hot that it charred the bones. Seventy days was the proper length of time required for embalming the dead body in making an Egyptian mummy. Lazarus when portrayed in the Roman catacombs comes forth from the tomb as an eviscerated, embalmed and bandaged mummy, warranted to have been made in Egypt. Now according to the Gospel narrative, there was no time for this, as Lazarus had only been dead for four days. The mummy, anyway, is non-historical; and it is the typically mummy called the Osiris, Asar in Egyptian, El-Asar in Aramaic, and Lazarus with the Greek terminal [La-Asar-us] in the Gospel assigned to John.”

— Gerald Massey (1907), Ancient Egypt, the Light of the Modern World, Volume Two (pgs. 851-52)

 http://www.eoht.info/page/Lazarus

 

The Greek name "Lazarus" or "Lazaros" equals "Eleazar" in Hebrew and per strongs (concordance) (G2976) means "whom God helps" it is a strange coincidence that the person whom Jesus ressurects happens to be named "whom God helps." and secoundly that "Eleazar" or breaking down its original components in Hebrew El-Azar looks closely resembles a combination of the semetic word for God "El" with the Egyptian name for Osiris "Ausar" interestingly there exists an ancient phonician inscription called "The Carpentras" that does indeed identify Osiris with the Semetic god "El" or Elohim calling him "Osiris Eloh"

Murdock WWJ 234 See Heath (Ledger) 92 Genesis 3:21 et al (You wanna know how I got these Scars? lol)       

 

 

"El Osiris in another form is L'azarus an account of whose death and resserection occur in the gospel of John where the Lord Jesus personates the central sun which restored to life El Osiris"

Albert Ross Parsons New Light From The Great Pyramid (187)

In addition el or al in arabic means "the" hence "El Azar-us would be equivalent to "the Osiris" which is in fact the frequent name used to discribe the deceased yearning to be ressurected. Verifying this fact the village in Judea where the Lazarus miracle supossedly took place Bethany today is called "EL Azarieh"

 

Parsons A 190 Rousseu 15 Davies W.D. 143    

 

Horus Also raised RA from the dead when depicted as "he who brings Re to life everyday; He refasions the King and brings the King to life everyday"

Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts Faulkner pg 90 James P Allen 55 and Mercer (the Mercenary) pg 100 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Horus was never crucified there is no records of this!" "Horus Never died I cant find anything about this so it must be a lie right?" LOL

 

 

“After being ‘betrayed’ by Typhon, Horus was ‘crucified,’ buried for three days, and thus, resurrected.” It needs to be reiterated here that the ancient texts did not necessarily spell out the myths in a linear fashion, resembling a story following a certain timeframe. Mythical motifs found disparately in the ancient Egyptian texts are combined in this paragraph, as they are in modern encyclopedia entries. While some might be critical of this manner of unfolding in the movie, it should be understood that the premise of the entire section (“Zeitgeist,” Part 1) concerns how symbolic characteristics were taken from the Egyptian religion and infused into Christianity, as a natural flow of religious evolution across various seemingly independent doctrines. Hence, the linear nature of such points becomes less important than the symbols they represent—especially when all the evidence and the context of astrotheology are taken into consideration. Also, it is important to remember the “hybrid” nature of the Egyptian gods and how multiple names are given to the same entity (i.e., Horus/Osiris hybrid). As Murdock explains: As we explore the original Egyptian mythos and ritual upon which much of Christianity was evidently founded, it needs to be kept in mind that the gods Osiris and Horus in particular were frequently interchangeable and combined, as in “I and the Father are one.” (Jn 10:30)87 Along the same lines, Egyptologist Dr. Samuel C. Sharpe remarks: The long list of gods...again further increased in two ways. The priests sometimes made a new god by uniting two or three or four into one, and at other times by dividing one into two or three, or more. Thus out of Horus and Ra they made Horus-Ra, called by the Greeks Aroeris. Out of Osiris and Apis the bull of Memphis, the priests of Memphis made Osiri-Apis or Serapis. He carries the two sceptres of Osiris, and has a bull’s head... Out of Amun-Ra and Ehe the bull of Heliopolis, the

 

83 Faulkner, EBD, pl. 33, 110; Allen, J., AEPT, 36. (E.g., PT 20:11a; PT 219:179b; PT 369:644c; PT 510:1130c; PT 540:1331b; W 152)

84 Allen, J., AEPT, 22.

85 Murdock, CIE, 312.

86 Massey, NG, II, 471,

87 Murdock, CIE, 67-68. 26 priests of the East of the Delta made Amun-Ra-Ehe. To this again they added a fourth character, that of Chem, and made a god Amun-Ra-Ehe-Chem. Out of Kneph the Spirit, and Ra the Sun, they made Kneph-Ra. Out of Sebek and Ra, they made Sebek-Ra. In this way the Egyptians worshipped a plurality in unity.

88 Betrayed by Typhon: The Typhon figure is also known as Set/Seth, the god of desert and darkness who betrays his brother, Osiris, and who is depicted in the Pyramid Texts as battling with Horus, who avenges his father. In later texts, Seth is said to have sent a snake or scorpion to sting and kill Horus, as on the Metternich Stela

89 (c. 380-342 BCE) and other such “cippi” or magical stele. Recounting another myth in which Horus is drowned, Diodorus (Antiquities of Egypt, 1.25.6) describes the god’s raising or resurrection by Isis, using the same term, anastasis, later employed to describe Jesus’s resurrection: Isis also discovered the elixir of immortality, and when her son Horus fell victim to the plots of the Titans and was found dead beneath the waves, she not only raised him from the dead and restored his soul, but also gave him eternal life.

90 The similarity of the Osiris-Set conflict with that of the Jesus-Satan battle is highlighted by historian Dr. Philip Van Ness Myers: The god Seth, called Typhon by the Greek writers, was the Satan of later Egyptian mythology. He was the personification of the evil in the world, just as Osiris was the personification of the good.91 For more on the contention between Horus and Set, see Christ in Egypt, pp. 67-78.

 

Horus Crucified: The “crucifixion” of Horus is misunderstood because many erroneously assume that the term denotes a direct resemblance to the crucifixion narrative of Jesus Christ. Hence, it is critical to point out that we are dealing with metaphors here, not “history,” as the “crucifixions” of both Horus and Jesus are improvable events historically. The issue at hand is not a man being thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross, as Jesus is depicted to have been, but the portrayal of gods and goddesses in “cruciform,” whereby the divine figure appears with arms outstretched in a symbolic context. The word “crucify” comes from the Latin crucifigere, composed of cruci/crux and affigere/figere, meaning “cross” and “to fix/affix,” respectively. Thus, it does not necessarily mean to throw a living person to the ground and nail him or her to a cross, but could signify any image affixed to a cross-shape or in cruciform. This symbolic imagery of a person on a cross or in cross-shape was fairly common in the Pagan world, concerning many gods, goddesses and other figures. First of all, the cross was a very ancient pre-Christian symbol that often designated the sun. Regarding the cross, the Catholic Encyclopedia (“Cross and the Crucifix”) states: The sign of the cross, represented in its simplest form by a crossing of two lines at right angles, greatly antedates, in both the East and the West, the introduction of Christianity. It goes back to a very remote period of human civilization.... ...It is also...a symbol of the sun...and seems to denote its daily rotation.... Cruciform objects have been found in Assyria. Shari people in Egypt wearing crucifixes around their necks. The statutes of Kings Asurnazirpal and Sansirauman, now in the British Museum, have cruciform jewels about the neck.... Cruciform earrings were found by Father Delattre in Punic tombs at Carthage. Another symbol which has been connected with the cross is the ansated cross (ankh or crux ansata) of the ancient Egyptians.... From the earliest times also it appears among the hieroglyphic signs symbolic of life or of the living... perhaps it was originally, like the swastika, an astronomical sign. The ansated cross is found on many and various monuments of Egypt.... In

 

88 Sharpe, 12.

89 See, e.g., te Velde, 37-38.

90 Diodorus/Murphy, 31. See also Murdock, CIE, 388.

91 Van Ness Myers, 38. 27 later times the Egyptian Christians (Copts), attracted by its form, and perhaps by its symbolism, adopted it as the emblem of the cross...

92 Fortunately, many ancient artifacts survive that demonstrate the antiquity not only of the cross but also of a human figure in the shape of a cross or in cruciform. Human in cruciform with cross around neck Chalcolithic, 3900-2500 BCE Cyprus, Greece (www.limassollink.com/history.php) Shari in Egypt wearing crosses, possibly Assyrians c. 15th cent. BCE. (Wilkinson, I, 365, 375ff) Crosses on the bottoms of ossuary c. 6th-5th cent. BCE? Golasecca, Italy (Seymour, 25) Original Coptic cross These pre-Christian or non-Christian gods on a cross were evidently what was being discussed around 150 AD/CE by Church father Justin Martyr (First Apology, 21): And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.93 The “sons of Jupiter” are Greco-Roman gods, and Justin claims Christians are “propounding nothing different” than what the Pagans said about their gods. The suggestion that other gods were “crucified” by being put in a cross shape or cruciform is confirmed by early Christian writer Minucius Felix in his Octavius (29): CHAP. XXIX—ARGUMENT: NOR IS IT MORE TRUE THAT A MAN FASTENED TO A CROSS ON ACCOUNT OF HIS CRIMES IS WORSHIPPED BY CHRISTIANS… For in that you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross, you wander far from the neighbourhood of the truth, in thinking either that a criminal deserved, or that any earthly being was able, to be believed God…. Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for. You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners, and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses gilded and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it.94 Counted among these “sons of Jupiter” depicted in cruciform may be the Greek god Prometheus, who was portrayed both in ancient writings and in pre-Christian artifacts as being bound to a cross or in cruciform. As related by the Catholic Encyclopedia: ...On an ancient vase we see Prometheus bound to a beam which serves the purpose of a cross.... In the same way the rock to which Andromeda was fastened is called crux, or cross....95 92 Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 4, p. 517-518.

 

93 Roberts, A., ANF, I, 170.

94 Roberts, A., ANF, IV, 191.

95 CE, vol. 4, 519.

 

 

Regarding the Egyptian god in cruciform, Thomas W. Doane relates: Osiris, the Egyptian Saviour, was crucified in the heavens.

To the Egyptian the cross was the symbol of immortality, an emblem of the Sun, and the god himself was crucified to the tree, which denoted his fructifying power. Horus was also crucified in the heavens. He was represented, like... Christ Jesus, with outstretched arms in the vault of heaven.96 Horus with arms outstretched in vault of heaven (Sharpe, Egyptian Antiquities in the British Museum, 143) (NB: This image was originally on a papyrus and is here and in Christ in Egypt depicted upside down for purposes of more readily illustrating the point.) This concept of Horus with outstretched arms or wings is confirmed by Egyptologist Dr. Hornung: Horus shows himself in the image of the hawk whose wings span the sky…97 Horus is also evidently linked with what some scholars would call his “Gnostic Counterpart”: a figure known as “Horos-Stauros,” a title in Greek meaning “Boundary-Cross,” the latter word stauros being the exact term used in the New Testament to describe Jesus’s cross. (E.g., Mt 27:32; Mk 15:30; Jn 19:19) For more on Horus as the “Horos-Stauros” and in cruciform, see the 40-page chapter “Was Horus ‘Crucified?’” in Murdock’s Christ in Egypt and online article “Was Horus Crucified?” Osiris too, it should be noted, was identified with the cross—the Egyptian ankh, which itself looks like a person in cruciform—and depicted as a crosslike djed pillar, surrounded by his two sisters, the Merti. 96 Doane, 484. 97 Hornung, CGAE, 124. 29 Osiris as personified djed pillar holding sun, surrounded by two Merti c. 13th-15th cents. BCE Egyptian Book of the Dead (Ani Papyrus) (Faulkner, EBD, pl. 1) Jesus on cross with solar halo, surrounded by three Merys John 19:25 Buried for three days: In the myth, both Osiris and Horus die and are resurrected, with Horus becoming the risen Osiris. As stated in The Riddle of Resurrection by professor of Old Testament Studies at the University of Lund, Dr. Tryggve N.D. Mettinger: The death and resurrection of Osiris are the most central features of [the Khoiak/Koiak] festival.98 Dr. Mettinger also states: ...Osiris rose to new life in his son, Horus...99 The period between Osiris’s death and resurrection varies, depending on the myth. For example, as “the Osiris”/deceased in the Egyptian funeral texts, as well as the nightly sun, he dies and resurrects on a daily basis. The annual death-and-resurrection period, however, is commonly depicted as three days, as related by Rev. Dr. Alfred Bertholet, a theologian and professor at the University of Göttingen. In an article entitled, “The Pre-Christian Belief in the Resurrection of the Body,” published in The American Journal of Theology by the University of Chicago Press, Dr. Bertholet remarks: According to the faith of later times, Osiris was three days and three nights in the waters before he was restored to life again.100 Dr. Jaime A. Ezquerra concurs: “Three days separated Christ’s death from his resurrection, reckoning inclusively, as in the case of Osiris.” The three-day period and resurrection are recorded by Plutarch (39, 366D-E) as occurring on the 17th , 18th and 19th of the month Athyr (Hathor), until “Osiris is found.” 101 In the funerary literature (e.g., PT 670/N 348), Osiris is called forth by Horus on the fourth day.102 It is useful to reiterate here that Horus and Osiris are often interchangeable and, indeed, in his resurrection Osiris becomes Horus. The theme of resurrection from the dead and “raising up” in three days is present in the Old Testament as well, at Hosea 6:2:

 

98 Mettinger, 182.

99 Mettinger, 172.

100 Bertholet, 5.

101 Plutarch/Babbitt, 95-97.

102 Murdock, CIE, 400. For more information on the “Burial for Three Days, Resurrection and Ascension,” see Christ in Egypt, 376-430. 30

 

After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him. As Mettinger also says: The idea of a three-days span of time between death and return, a triduum, seems to be at hand in Hosea 6:2 in a context where the imagery ultimately draws upon Canaanite ideas of resurrection… Apart from Hosea 6:2 one should remember also Jonah 2:1…where Jonah is in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. I understand the belly of the fish as a metaphor for the Netherworld.103 In this regard, it should also be noted that where the fish’s belly is the “netherworld,” Jonah would thus be a sun god.104 Logic tells us that the story of Jonah and the Whale could not be “history”; hence, it must be mythical, in whole or in part. But what does this patently mythical periscope mean? It is about the sun entering into the “abyss” of the “Leviathan,” i.e., the dark cave or tomb of night. Concerning this myth, Catholic scholar Dr. Botterweck states: ...In a sun myth the sun is swallowed up by the western part of the sea and then rises again. This myth is "historicized and re-neutralized in Jonah, as...Jonah replaces the sun and the 'great fish' plays the role of the sea." On the other hand, the period of time Jonah stayed in the belly of the fish suggests a moon myth, and calls to mind, among other things, Inanna's descent into the underworld...105 Yet, Jesus is compared to Jonah at Matthew 12:40, essentially equating him with a solar myth. Moreover, it was said that Osiris’s Greek counterpart Dionysus or Bacchus “slept three nights with Proserpine [Persephone],”106 evidently referring to the god’s journey into the underworld to visit his mother. One major astrotheological meaning of this motif is the sun’s entrance into the cave (womb) of the world at the winter solstice. As will be described in a later section, the three-day death-and-resurrection theme in a number of myths is symbolic of the “death” and “return” of the sun at the winter solstice each year. Resurrected: We have already seen the evidence that both Osiris and Horus were resurrected from the dead. Again, as concerns Horus’s resurrection, Diodorus remarks: Isis also discovered the elixir of immortality, and when her son Horus fell victim to the plots of the Titans and was found dead beneath the waves, she not only raised him from the dead and restored his soul, but also gave him eternal life.107 Regarding the meaning of this resurrection theme, Dr. Herman te Velde, a chairman of the Department of Egyptology at the University of Groningen, states: As Re [Ra] who manifests himself in the sun goes to rest in the evening and awakes from the sleep of death in the morning, so do the death and resurrection of Osiris seem to be equally inevitable and natural.108 In this regard, the pharaoh is the “living Horus,” until he dies, at which point he becomes “the Osiris,” who is then resurrected to eternal life—and as his son, Horus, the morning sun. This cycle is repeated constantly in the Egyptian texts. Indeed, concerning Osiris, James Bonwick remarks: His birth, death, burial, resurrection and ascension embraced the leading points of Egyptian theology.109 Again, for more on this subject, including the meaning and location of Osiris’s resurrection, see the 54- page chapter “Burial for Three Days, Resurrection and Ascension” in Christ in Egypt.

 

103 Mettinger, 214.

104 See, e.g., Acharya, SOG, 460, etc.

105 Botterweck, III, 138.

106 Classical Journal, 92.

107 Diodorus/Murphy, 31.

108 te Velde, 81.

109 Bonwick, 150.

 

*Note there is a lotta Shit pasted in here by mistake that garbels the text but it comes from Zeitgeist The movie Companion source guide.pdf file:///home/chronos/u-1bc73d42013b37ccb358fad137bb9237b796cac9/MyFiles/Downloads/Zeitgeist The movie Companion source guide.pdf

so you can read a more clearer version without the mistakes and some dank ass pics supporting claims being made here

 

 

A few more Parallels before we move on it has been erroneously claimed that Geb is not the earthly father of Horus and is the father of Osiris in some accounts and that it must be a mashup of these details and also that Seb does not translate to Joseph this is false as even Wikipedia admits that Horus The Elder is sometimes the 5th child of Geb and Nut/Neith the Virgin Queen Of heaven instead of the child of Osiris and Isis-Meri as he is usually potrayed and again Osiris and Horus were often interchangable to the point of syncretism with Horus being the newly reborn form of Osiris as noted by Trygvve Mettenger David Adam Leemings William Williamson Jacob Van Djike among others Mark Van Doren An Anthlogy Of World Poetry 241 “I am the Prince in the Field, I am Osiris. I am Horus and Ra, One with Osiris.”

 

Here is an article that goes more indeph concerning this subject: https://stellarhousepublishing.com/jesusjosephhorusseb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=thoth+healing+horus+eye&rlz=1CAHJUL_enCA881&sxsrf=ALeKk02RNwAgOG1UAAWQ5AHxec2MB4akyg:1599886856847&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJxKH-6uLrAhUDmuAKHX1JApsQ_AUoAXoECBYQAw&biw=1517&bih=702#imgrc=f8QaTDhfq4b3UM&imgdii=jiqCoUVcX-YXMM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And thats all for Osiris/Horus so you'll have to read the Companion Source Guide I cited above or get The Companion Guide to ZG part 1 or buy Christ In Egypt as an alternative to find the rest or simply download Neal Boswells Perrenial Gospel I cited much much earlier and read that and again a very special thanks to Neal and DM Murdock for this info

 

 

 

 

 

Now lets move on to parallels between JAAAYYSUUUS and other Harry potter style Sun/Sky Wizards

 

Firstly Attis/Attys of Phrygia the land of Fridges

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

"The youthful Attis after his murder was miraculously brought to life again three days after his demise. The celebration of this cycle of death and renewal was one of the major festivals of the metroac cult. Attis therefore represented a promise of reborn life and as such it is not surprising that we find representations of the so-called mourning Attis as a common tomb motif in the ancient world. The parallel, albeit at a superficial level, between this myth and the account of the resurrection of Christ is clear. Moreover Attis as a shepherd occupies a favourite Christian image of Christ as the good shepherd. Further parallels also seem to have existed: the pine tree of Attis, for example, was seen as a parallel to the cross of Christ. Beyond Attis himself, Cybele too offered a challenge to Christian divine nomenclature. Cybele was regarded as a virgin goddess and as such could be seen as a rival to the Virgin Mary... Cybele as the mother of the Gods, mater Deum, here again presented a starkly pagan parallel to the Christian Mother of God. There was rivalry too in ritual. The climax of the celebration of Attis’ resurrection, the Hilaria, fell on the 25th of March, the date that the early church had settled on as the day of Christ’s death.... "

 

Cybele, Attis and related Cults Eugene Lane and Andrew T Fear (39-40)

 

 

"Attis is the son of Cybele in her form as the virgin, Nana, who is impregnated by the divine force in the form of a pomegranate"

 

David Adam Leemings Mythology: Voyage of the Hero (25)

 

 

Couple this information with Anne Baring and Arthur Maurice Canneys info from earlier more over the story of Kybele/Nana "Queen of Heaven" was she basically absorbed a pomagranate into her boobs after her male form Agdistis got casturated and the wee wee turned into a pomagranet tree and with no sex involved this is a virgin birth

 

"Attis’s passion was celebrated on the 25th of March, exactly nine months before the solstitial festival of his birth, the 25th of December. The time of his death was also the time of his conception, or re-conception." Barbera Walker Womens Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets (77) 

 

"In the secret rites of this Great Mother the young god Attis figured as her acolyte and consort.... Each year he was born at the winter solstice, and each year as the days shortened, he died." Shirley Toulson The Winter Solstice (34) 

 

"...the peculiar orientation of a chamber, into which the first rays of the morning sun would directly penetrate on the day of the winter solstice, led [Bendala] to deduce that this would be a kind of sanctum sanctorum of the sanctuary, where the devotees of Attis celebrated the Natalis Invicti..." Vermaseren, CARC, 408.

 

"G. Thomas...traces the development of the idea of resurrection with regard to Attis, [which] seems to be firmly established approximately by the time of Firmicus Maternus and the Neo-Platonists, i.e., the fourth century A.D. By this time, “Attis is now conceived of as a higher cosmic god, even the Sun-god.... At the solstice...symbolically Cybele is seen to have paled before the ascendant Attis...” Vermaseren, CARC, 108.

 

Moreover, at times the young Attis was merged with Mithra Vermaseren, CARC, 108 ,whose birthday was traditionally held on December 25th and with whom he shared the same Phrygian capped attire. As we have seen, the Natalis Invicti was traditionally the birth of Mithra and Sol Invictus. In this regard, as Dr. Fear relates: "Allegorical readings of metroac mythology allowed the cult to be integrated into the popular cult of Sol Invictus. Attis became emblematic of the sun god, and Cybele of the mother earth".Vermaseren, CARC, 43

To summarize, as Sol Invictus or the Unconquered Sun—again, who is likewise identified with Mithra— Attis too would have been depicted as having been born on December 25th or the winter solstice, the time of the Natalis Invicti. Halsberghe, 159

 

 

Attis was concidered to be the "Casterated and Crucified Attis"  Josef Harari, 131.

 

Again, it should be noted that the use of the term “crucified” in ZG1.1 and elsewhere, such as concerns gods like Horus and Attis, does not connote that he or they were thrown to the ground and nailed to a cross, as we commonly think of crucifixion, based on the Christian tale. As we have seen, there have been plenty of ancient figures who appeared in cruciform, some of whose myths specifically have them punished or killed through crucifixion, such as Prometheus. The crucifixion in solar mythology represents the circle of the year with a cross in the center, symbolizing the solstices and equinoxes. Hence, as a sun god, Attis would logically have been said to be “crucified,” as have been his solar counterparts in the esoterica of the solar cultus. As a nature god as well, he would be said to be hung on a cross at the vernal equinox, when the days and nights are equal, until he rises to bring back the resurrection of the spring from the death of winter, as well as the day triumphing over the night as it increases in length. Moreover, Attis is said to have been “crucified” to a pine tree Price, R., 87.

 

while Christ too was related as being both crucified and hung on a tree (Acts 5:30; 10:39). As stated by La Trobe University professor Dr. David John Tacey: Especially significant for us is the fact that the Phrygian Attis was crucified upon the tree... Tacey 110

 

As we know from rituals that have continued into relatively recent times, such as among the Khonds of India, when the sacred-king victims of their human-sacrifice rituals are hung on a tree, the sacrifice was often done with their arms extended onto branches on either side, or in cruciform. Acharya, SOG, 281.

 

Indeed, some of these cults/tribes use movable crossbars, such that it can very accurately be stated that they hang their victims on a tree that is also a cross—a cross-shaped tree, in fact. Hence, the two are essentially the same. The wood upon which a crucified victim is hung need not be a hewn cross but can be a tree, and Attis’s hanging upon a tree has very much been considered a “crucifixion”: “It was an ancient custom to use trees as gibbets for crucifixion, or, if artificial, to call the cross a tree.” Higgins, I, 499.

 

 

Concerning Attis’s death, Doane remarks: Attys, who was called the “Only Begotten Son” and “Saviour,” was worshipped by the Phrygians…. He was represented by them as a man tied to a tree, at the foot of which was a lamb, and, without doubt, also as a man nailed to the tree, or stake, for we find Lactantius making this Apollo of Miletus…say that: “He was a mortal according to the flesh; wise in miraculous works; but, being arrested by an armed force by command of the Chaldean judges, he suffered a death made bitter with nails and stakes. Thomas Doane Bible Myths and there Parallels in other religions (190-191)

 

In his book Divine Institutes (4.11), Christian writer Lactantius (c. 240-c. 320) relates that, according to his oracle, the sun god Apollo of Miletus was “mortal in the flesh, wise in miraculous deeds, but he was made prisoner by the Chaldean lawgivers and nailed to stakes, and came to a painful death. Lactantius, 245

 

Julian “the Apostate” (331/332-363 AD/CE), the latter of whom said that both Apollo and Attis were “closely linked with Helios,” the older Greek sun god. Athanassiadi, 204.

 

 

The death and resurrection in three days, the “Passion of Attis,” is also related by Professor Merlin Stone: Roman reports of the rituals of Cybele record that the son...was first tied to a tree and then buried. Three days later a light was said to appear in the burial tomb, whereupon Attis rose from the dead, bringing salvation with him in his rebirth. Prof Merlin Stone (146)

 

 

There is a debate as to when the various elements were added to the Attis myth and ritual. In this regard, Murdock writes in “The Real ZEITGEIST Challenge”: Contrary to the current fad of dismissing all correspondences between Christianity and Paganism, the fact that Attis was at some point a “dying and rising god” is concluded by Dr. Tryggve Mettinger, a professor of Old Testament Studies at the University of Lund and author of The Riddle of the Resurrection, who relates: “Since the time of Damascius (6th cent. AD/CE), Attis seems to have been believed to die and return.” (Mettinger, 159) By that point, we possess clear discussion in writing of Attis having been resurrected, but when exactly were these rites first celebrated and where? Attis worship is centuries older than Jesus worship and was popular in some parts of the Roman Empire before and well into the “Christian era.” In addition, it is useful here to reiterate that simply because something occurred after the year 1 AD/CE—which was not the dating system used at that time—does not mean that it was influenced by Christianity, as it may have happened where Christianity had never been heard of. In actuality, not much about Christianity emerges until the second century, and there remain to this day places where Christianity is unknown; hence, these locations can still be considered pre Christian. 

 

 

It is probable that the Attis rites were celebrated long before Christianity was recognized to any meaningful extent. Certainly, since they are mysteries, they could have been celebrated but not recorded previously, especially in pre-Christian times, when the capital punishment for revealing the mysteries was actually carried out. In the case of Attis, we possess a significant account in Diodorus (3.58.7) of his death and mourning, including the evidently annual ritual creation of his image by priests. Hence, these noteworthy aspects of the Attis myth are clearly pre-Christian. Although Diodorus does not specifically state that Attis was resurrected, the priests parading about with an image of the god is indicative that they considered him risen, as this type of ritual is present in other celebrations for the same reason, such as in the Egyptian festivities celebrating the return of Osiris or the rebirth of Sokar…. …although we do not need Attis to show a dying-and-rising parallel to Christ, the material in ZG1.1 concerning him is soundly based in scholarship. Regardless of when these attributes were first associated specifically with Attis, the dying-and-rising motif of springtime myths is verified as pre-Christian by the fact of its appearance in the story of Tammuz as well as that of the Greek goddess Persephone, also known as Proserpina, whose “rise” out of the underworld was celebrated in the Greco-Roman world. That the festivals displayed by the Attis myth represent spring celebrations and not an imitation of Christianity is the most logical conclusion. Indeed, the presence of such a ritual in springtime festivals dating back to the third millennium BCE, as Mettinger relates, certainly makes the case for borrowing by Christians, rather than the other way around.

 

Murdock, RZC, 15-16, For a discussion of the dating of various aspects of the Attis myth, see Christ in Egypt, 392ff

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/attis/

 

 

Next Up Krishna!

 

 

Krishna of India 

 

The similarities between the Christian character and the Indian messiah Krishna number in the hundreds, particularly when the early Christian texts now considered apocryphal are factored in. 

 

It should be noted that a common earlier English spelling of Krishna was “Christna,” which reveals its relation to “Christ.” Also, in Bengali, Krishna is reputedly “Christos,” which is the same as the Greek for “Christ” and which the soldiers of Alexander the Great called Krishna. 

 

It should be further noted that, as with Jesus, Buddha and Osiris, many people have believed and continue to believe in a historical Krishna. 

 

The following is a partial list of the correspondences between Jesus and Krishna: 

 

• Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25th.cccii 

 

• His earthly father was a carpenter,ccciii who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.ccciv 

 

• His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices. 

 

• The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.cccv • He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants. 

 

• Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.cccvi 

 

• He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent. 

 

• He worked miracles and wonders, raising the dead and healing lepers, the deaf and the blind. 

• Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love, and he “lived poor and he loved the poor.”cccvii 

 

• He castigated the clergy, charging them with “ambition and hypocrisy. . . Tradition says he fell victim to their vengeance.”cccviii 

 

• Krishna’s “beloved disciple” was Arjuna or Ar-jouan (John). 

 

• He was transfigured in front of his disciples. 

 

• He gave his disciples the ability to work miracles.cccix 

 

• His path was “strewn with branches.”cccx 

 

• In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves. 

 

• Krishna was killed around the age of 30,cccxi and the sun darkened at his death.cccxii 

 

• He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven “in the sight of all men.”cccxiii 

 

• He was depicted on a cross with nail-holes in his feet, as well as having a heart emblem on his clothing.cccxiv 

• Krishna is the “lion of the tribe of Saki.”cccxv 

 

• He was called the “Shepherd God” and considered the “Redeemer,” “Firstborn,” “Sin-Bearer,” “Liberator,” “Universal Word.”cccxvi 

 

• He was deemed the “Son of God” and “our Lord and Savior,” who came to earth to die for man’s salvation.cccxvii 

 

• He was the second person of the Trinity. 

 

• His disciples purportedly bestowed upon him the title “Jezeus,” or “Jeseus,” meaning “pure essence.”cccxviii 

 

• Krishna is to return to judge the dead, riding on a white horse, and to do battle with the “Prince of Evil,” who will desolate the earth.cccxix The story of Krishna as recorded in the ancient Indian legends and texts penetrated the West on a number of occasions. 

 

One theory holds that Krishna worship made its way to Europe as early as 800 BCE, possibly brought by the Phoenicians. 

 

Higgins asserts that Krishna-worship in Ireland goes back even further, and he points to much linguistic and archaeological evidence of this early migration. Krishna was reinjected into Western culture on several other occasions, including by Alexander the Great after the expansion of his empire and his sojourn in India. 

 

It is also claimed that his worship was reintroduced during the first century CE by Apollonius of Tyana, who carried a fresh copy of the Krishna story in writing to the West, where it made its way to Alexandria, Egypt. Graham relates the tale: The argument runs thus: There was in ancient India a very great sage called Deva Bodhisatoua. Among other things he wrote a mythological account of Krishna, sometimes spelled Chrishna. About 38 or 40 A.D., Apollonius while traveling in the East found this story in Singapore. 

 

He considered it so important he translated it into his own language, namely, Samaritan. In this he made several changes according to his own understanding and philosophy. 

 

On his return he brought it to Antioch, and there he died. Some thirty years later another Samaritan, Marcion, found it. He too made a copy with still more changes. This he brought to Rome about 130 A.D., where he translated it into Greek and Latin.cccxx Thus, we have the apparent origins of Marcion’s Gospel of the Lord, which he claimed was the Gospel of Paul. In addition to the gospel story, the moralistic teachings purportedly introduced by Jesus were established long before by Krishna. 

 

These similarities constitute the reason why Christianity has failed, despite repeated efforts for centuries, to make headway in India, as the Brahmans have recognized Christianity as a relatively recent imitation of their much older traditions, which they have considered superior as well. 

 

Higgins relates: The learned Jesuit Baldaeus observes that every part of the life of Cristna [Krishna] has a near resemblance to the history of Christ; and he goes on to show that the time when the miracles are supposed to have been performed was during the Dwaparajug, which he admits to have ended 3,100 years before the Christian era. So that, as the Cantab says, If there is meaning in words, the Christian missionary admits that the history of Christ was founded upon that of Crishnu [Krishna].cccxxi

 

ccci. James Churchward The Lost Continent Of Mu (320), 

(64) 

Kersey Graves World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors (257) 

 

ccciii. Tim Leedom The Book Your Church Does Not Want You To Read (185); viz. Robert Taylor. 

 

Ccciv. John G Jackson Christianity Before Christ (81) 

Cccv. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions (147) 

 

cccvi. Kersey Graves World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviours (261), (280) 

 

cccvii. Louis Jacolliot Bible In India (250) 

 

cccviii. Helena Blavatsky Volume 2 (538) 

 

cccix. Albert Pike Morals and Dogma  (277) 

 

cccx. Louis Jacolliot Bible In India (241) 

 

cccxi. Kersey Graves World's Sixteen Crucified Saviours (261) 

 

cccxii. John G Jackson Christianity Before Christ (80) 

 

cccxiii. Tim Leedom, The Book Your Church Doesn’t want You To Read (137) 

 

cccxiv. Kersey Graves World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors, (104-5) 

 

cccxv. Kersey Graves Worlds Sixteen Crucified Saviours (258) 

 

cccxvi. Helena Blavatsky, Barbera Walker. 

 

cccxvii. Louis Jacolliot Bible In India (56) 

 

cccxviii. Louis Jacolliot Bible In India (251) 

 

cccxix. Louis Jacolliot Bible In India (282) 

 

cccxx. Lloyd Graham Deceptions And Myths Of The Bible (290) 

 

cccxxi. Godfrey Higgins Anacalypsis Volume 1 (197)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next up on our hitlist Dionysus!

 

 

Dionysus (Osiris) and his sometimes consort Aphrodite (Isis/Hathor)

 

 

 

 

Now lets see what "Obstinant Heathens" have to say against the faith of our LAWD!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

Well you heard It YOUSELVES!!! The Blasphemers against Osiris-Dionysus as our Lord have officially disproved our faith!!!! Oh wait except these "Wicked Devils" have not destroyed us YET!!! let us fact check these sinners and prove who the TRUE GOD really IS!!!! In all seriousness lets begin and see if there right!

 

For starters Dionysus was born of Zeus and Semele through a flash of lightning as related by Euripides The Bacchae and in another story in Orphism where he is the Son of Jupiter and Persephone Queen Of The Underworld and is hunted down by titans sent by HERA parallel to HEROD is torn to pieces and Semele takes his severed heart and drinks it in the form of a potion to give birth to the "Twice Born" Dionysus (Found in Hygenus Fabulae 167) both rather obvious Virgin birth tales that debunk this Godless heathens first point and actually Robert Graves and Rigoglioso both discuss the Randy Zeus as being a virgin father who also produces through Parthenogenesis

 

Although Semele is never refered to as a virgin many scholars have concidered her such  

 

"Dionysus, son of Zeus, is born of a mortal virgin, Semele, who later became immortalized through the intervention of her divine son; Jesus, son of God, is born of a mortal virgin, Mary… such stories can be duplicated over and over again." Edmund Ronald Leach Hugh Jones 108

 

"While the maiden goddess sat there, peacefully weaving a mantle on which there was to be a representation of the universe, her mother contrived that Zeus should learn of her presence; he approached her in the form of an immense snake. And the virgin conceived the ever-dying, everliving god of bread and wine, Dionysus, who was born and nurtured in that cave, torn to death as a babe and resurrected..." Campbell, MG, 27.

 

 

“Semele was also likely a holy parthenos by virtue of the fact that she gave birth to Dionysus via her union with Zeus (Hesiod, Theogony 940) Margerite Rigoglioso The Cult of the Divine Birth in Ancient Greece (95)

 

"Dionysus, like other Sun or Nature deities, was born of a Virgin (Semele or Demeter) untainted by any earthly husband" Edward Carpanter Pagan and Christisn Creeds (65)

 

So there you have it Semele is a Virgin Mother of Dionysus/Osiris but were not done yet however.... As we have seen from Anne Baring, Arthur Maurice Canney, William Sheperd Walsh and other sources Demeter herself the Greek Equivelent of Isis was a Virgin Mother couple this with her role as mother of Persephone and the fact that Zeus-Ammon and Demeter are the parents of Iacchus/Dionysus in the Elusinian Mysteries and thus Demeter by union of Jupiter/Amen Ra is the Virgin mother of both Persephone and Dionysus in some myths. 

 

Furthermore Dionysus in the religion of Orphism was potrayed as being the son of Zeus and Persephone/Kore who as we have noted from Joseph Campbell is styled a "Virgin Goddess" who gave birth to the year God Aion who was quite often equted with Dionysus and Kore as we have seen much much earlier was a "hellinzed transformation of Isis" also Plutarch equated Serapis with Pluto and Persephone as Isis   

 

 

Persephone as Isis (Isis-Persephone) Heraklion Museum

 

 

Also Demeter and Persephone were Joint goddesses and Kore was merely an extension of her mother meaning the 2 goddesses are more or less the same meaning that If Isis is Equivalent to Demeter as per Herodotus and other ancient authors than Isis is also identicle to Persephone to.

 

More over here is what Epiphaneus the Early Church Father had to say on this matter:

 

"On this day, i.e. on the eighth day before the Calends of January, the Greeks...celebrate a feast that the Romans call Saturnalia, the Egyptians Cronia and the Alexandrines Cicellia. The reason is that the eighth day before the Calends of January forms a dividing-line, for on it occurs the solstice; the day begins to lengthen again and the sun shines longer and with increasing strength until the eighth day before the Ides of January, viz., until the day of Christ’s nativity... The principal of [the] feasts is that which takes place in the so-called Koreion in Alexandria, this Koreion being a mighty temple in the district sacred to Kore. Throughout the whole night the people keep themselves awake here by singing certain hymns and by means of the flute-playing which accompanies the songs they sing to the image of their god. When they have ended these nocturnal celebrations, then at morning cock-crow they descend, carrying torches, into a sort of chapel which is below ground and thence they carry up a wooden image of one lying naked upon a bier. This image has upon its forehead a golden cross and two more such seals in the form of crosses one on each hand... If anyone asks them what manner of mysteries these might be, they reply, saying: “Today at this hour Kore, that is the virgin, has given birth to Aion.” Such things also occur in Petra... The hymns they sing are in the Arabic tongue and are in praise of a virgin whom they call “Chaamu” which is the same as Kore or Parthenos, and in praise of her child “Dusares” which means “Only son of the ruler of all.” The same thing happens on this same night in Alexandria, in Petra and also in the city of Elusa" Hugo Rahner Greek Myth and Christian Mystery (137-38)  For a lengthy discussion of this important passage in Epiphanius, which was edited out of the Migne edition, see Murdock, CIE, 84-88.

 

Parthenos being the greek word for Virgin!

 

"This date is not derived from the New Testament which is silent on this matter it my have been chosen in concious opposition to a celebration held in Alexandria on the night of January 5th and the morning of January 6 in honor of the birth of the god Aeon from the Virgin Goddess Kore" Opening the Bible essays by Howard H Charles (129)

 

 

 

As a title "Parthenos" was apropriate to Demeter and Persephone Donald White (183)

 

Margerite Rigoglioso has an entire chapter about Demeter and Persephone In Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity called  Demeter and Persephone: Double Goddesses of Parthenogenesis (99-191)

 

Finally when one conciders the fact that A) Vulcan and Minerva a goddess whose virginity was so well known she had a temple called "Parthenon" built in her honor are parents of Apollo in the earliest greek cultures as related by Cicero in On The Nature Of The Gods Book III and the fact that Arnobius an early Christian writer and Macrobius a latin writer both Noted Dionysus equation to Apollo/Helios the Graeco Roman Sun God further proving Dionysus/Bacchus's Solar Nature  

 

" in Seven Books Against the Heathen (3.33), early Christian writer Arnobius (284-305) remarks that the Pagans “maintain that Bacchus, Apollo, the Sun, are one deity” and “the sun is also Bacchus and Apollo.” "

 

"But given the earlier proof that Apollo and the sun are the same and the subsequent demonstration that Father Liber is the same as Apollo there can be no doubt but that the sun and father Liber must be considered aspects of the same godhead they observe the holy mysteries in the rites by calling by calling the sun Apollo when it is in the upper (that is daytime)

hemisphere when it is in the lower (that is night-time) hemisphere it is considered Dionysus who is Liber" Macrobius/Kaster 1.249

 

and when one also notes the fact that as we discussed earlier Neith is the Virgin Mother of Osiris and Neith was Identified with Athena/Minerva and Osiris with Dionysus/Bacchus 

it is for these reasons that mythologicaly speaking Athena can be considered by union of Hepheastus the Virgin Mother of Dionysus/Bacchus

 

Also Athena according to Raphals was a Sea Goddess and this would have earned her the latin epithet of Mare

 Lisa Raphals Knowing Words: Wisdom and Cunning in the Classical Traditions of China and Greece, Cornell University Press, 1992. (217)

 

Thus would have been concidered born of the virgin "Mare-y" (Mary) in some myths

 

Also because of the fact that Demeter and Persephone were identified with Isis who inturn was equated with Venus and the fact that Hathor was the Virgin Mother of Osiris and of course Hathor=Aphrodite/Venus and Osiris=Dionysus/Bacchus It would therefore mean mythologically speaking Aphrodite would have been the Virgin Mother of Dionysus 

in some myths and she also had the epithet Mare to so yet another "Mary" Dionysus would have been born of...

 

 So in any event he is born of the union of a God (Zeus/Juptier or Hephestus/Vulcan) and a Virgin Mother (Semele, Demeter/Ceres, Persephone/Kore, Aphrodite/Venus or Athena/Minerva) so checkmate Villain to the one true Faith! 

 

I also Highly recommend Neal Boswells chapter "A Virgin shall Concieve" in The Perennial Gospel which goes more into Minervas role as a Virgin mother particularly of Ericthonius and Emperor Domition. (The Pontius Pilate of the Apollonius Narrative)

 

It is wise at this point to recall that in the ancient world many gods were confounded and compounded, deliberately or otherwise. Some were even considered interchangeable, such as Osiris, Horus and Ra. In this regard, Plutarch (35, 364E) states, “Osiris is identical with Dionysus.” Thus, Zeus’s son Dionysus or Bacchus was considered the Greek rendition of Osiris: Dionysus became the universal savior-god of the ancient world. And there has never been another like unto him: the first to whom his attributes were accredited, we call Osiris: with the death of paganism, his central characteristics were assumed by Jesus Christ. Dionysus is likewise identified with the god Aion and also referred to as “Zeus Sabazius” in other traditions. Hence, we would expect him to share in at least some of all these gods’ attributes.

 

 Plutarch/Babbitt, 85.

 Larson, 82.

 Graves, R., WG, 335.

 

 

As with Jesus, December 25th and January 6th are both traditional birth dates related to Dionysus and simply represent the period of the winter solstice. Concerning these dates, Murdock remarks: The winter-solstice date of the Greek sun and wine god Dionysus was originally recognized in early January but was eventually placed on December 25th, as related by Macrobius. Regardless, the effect is the same: The winter sun god is born around this time, when the [shortest day of the year] begins to become longer….Murdock, The 2010 Astrotheology Calendar, 44.

 

Murdock also says: The birthday of Dionysus can be listed on both the 5th and 6th of January, while the god Aion who is born on January 6th is called by Joseph Campbell a “syncretistic personification of Osiris.” Dionysus was likewise identified with both Aion and Osiris in ancient times. In antiquity too, Jesus Christ’s nativity was also placed on the 6th or 7th of January, when it remains celebrated in some factions of the Orthodox Church, such as Armenia, as well as the Coptic Church. Concerning these dates, Christian theologian Dr. Hugo Rahner remarks: As to the dates, Norden has shown that the change from January 6 to December 25 can be explained as the result of the reform introduced by the more accurate Julian calendar into the ancient Egyptian calculation which had fixed January 6 as the date of the winter solstice. It thus appears that in ancient times these dates of January 5, 6 and 7 represented the winter solstice, which is fitting for sun gods. Indeed, Macrobius later places Dionysus’s birth on December 25th, again appropriate for a sun god. Murdock, 2AC, 36.

 

Jesuit theologian Dr. Rahner further states: ...in the Hellenistic East, and with Alexandria evidently taking the lead, a mystery was enacted that concerned the birth of Aion by a virgin and that this mystery took place on the night leading to January 6. It is quite immaterial whether the object of the cult in question was really Dionysus Aion or some other deity. Epiphanius, quoting other ancient writers, tells us elsewhere that the birthday of Dionysus was celebrated on January 5 and 6, though in the present instance it may well have been that of Osiris or Harpocrates-Horus. It matters very little, since the tendency in these late Hellenistic days was for the identities of gods, all of whom were beginning to take on the character of a solar deity, to become merged with one another. We know that Aion was at this time beginning to be regarded as identical with Helios and Helios with Dionysus… Greek Myth and Christian Mystery (139)

 

 

 

 

 

The miracles of Dionysus are legendary, as is his role as the god of wine, echoed in the later Christian story of Jesus multiplying the jars of wine at the wedding feast of Cana (Jn 2:1-9). Concerning this miracle, biblical scholar Dr. A.J. Mattill remarks: This story is really the Christian counterpart to the pagan legends of Dionysus, the Greek god of wine, who at his annual festival in his temple of Elis filled three empty kettles with wine—no water needed! And on the fifth of January wine instead of water gushed from his temple at Andros. If we believe Jesus’ miracle, why should we not believe Dionysus’s? Tim Leedom The Book Your Church doesn't want you to read (125)

 

As the god of the vine, Dionysus is depicted in ancient texts as traveling around teaching agriculture, as well as doing various miracles, such as in Homer’s The Iliad, dating to the 9th century BCE, and in The Bacchae of Euripides, the famous Greek playwright who lived around 480 to 406 BCE. In addition, Dionysus’s miracle of changing water to wine is also recounted in pre-Christian times by Diodorus (Library of History, 3.66.3). DM Murdock The Real Zeitgeist Challange (18)

 

 

In Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, Doane asserts, “Bacchus, the offspring of Jupiter and Semele was called the ‘Savior,’ ...he was called the ‘Only Begotten Son Thomas Doane (193) The title of “savior” or Soter was applied to many Greek and other gods prior to the Christian era. (It should be noted that what is deemed the “Christian era” is not the same as the “common era,” because there are to this day places where Christianity has not been heard of; hence, they remain pre-Christian.)

 

Regarding Dionysus’s many divine epithets, Murdock states:

In an Orphic hymn, Phanes-Dionysus is styled by the Greek title Protogonos or “first-born” of Zeus, also translated at times as “only-begotten son,” although the term Monogenes would be more appropriately rendered as the latter. 

 

As concerns the epithet “King of Kings,” noted anthropologist Sir James G. Frazer tells us that the Neoplatonist Proclus (5th cent. AD/CE) related: Dionysus was the last king of the gods appointed by Zeus. For his father set him on the kingly throne, and placed in his hand the scepter, and made him king of all the gods of the world. In the case of Dionysus/Bacchus being labeled the “Alpha and Omega,” here is one instance where not knowing foreign languages would make the sources difficult to access, as we are told in French by Rev. Isaac de Beausobre that there is an ancient inscription in which Dionysus/Bacchus says, “I am the Alpha and Omega" Histoire critique de Manichée et du manichéisme, Volume 2 (56) 

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=2ycVAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA56&dq="c'est+moi,+qui+vous+conserve"+beausobre&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2lfuU-DXMI_5oASwmYHwAg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q="je fuis alpha"&f=false

 

 

The title “King of Kings” and other epithets may reflect Dionysus’s kinship with Osiris: During the late 18th to early 19th dynasties (c. 1300 BCE), Osiris’s epithets included, “the king of eternity, the lord of everlastingness, who traverseth millions of years in the duration of his life, the firstborn son of the womb of Nut, begotten of Seb, the prince of gods and men, the god of gods, the king of kings, the lord of lords, the prince of princes, the governor of the world whose existence is for everlasting.

 

Budge, EBD (1967), liii.

 

While it is true that Dionysus didn't have 12 disiples he was part of the 12 Olympians "None of the earlier emperors seems to have associated himself directly with the Twelve Gods . ... B . C . , but the exposition of the complete system relating the Olympians to the months and the zodiac belongs to the first century after Christ"  Charlotte R Long 12 Gods of ancient Greece and Rome (274)

 

The number 12 is made up of the sphere of the fixed stars , the seven known planets ( including sun and moon ) , three regions or zones of aether , air ... seen here an allusion to the twelve signs of the Zodiac , or rather to the twelve deities guarding4 or inhabiting them . ... whom Plato may have known as early as the date of the Phaedrus , identified these deities with the twelve Olympians ; and there is ... Plato: Phaedrus - Page 74 Plato, ‎R. Hackforth - 1972

 

.

The Key of Destiny - Page 42

 

Harriette A. Curtiss, ‎F. Homer Curtiss - 1996

 

Nothing could more plainly indicate that the ancient Egyptians possessed a knowledge of the zodiac and planetary influences in ... The fundamental idea of number 12 relating to the Manifestation of the Trinity within a cycle of expression ( manvantara ) ... Thus , not only are there the 12 sons of Jacob who founded the 12 tribes of Israel , but there are 12 princes of Ishmael ; 3 the 12 Olympian deities ; the 12 ...

 

So in other words the 12 Olympians are parallel to the twelve houses of the Zodiac and to those who say the 12 Disiples aren't parallel to the 12 houses think again!

 

According to the New Testament Jesus Picked his 12 Apostles based on the 12 tribes of Israel which both the Forgery boy Flavius Josephus and Philo of Alexandria equated with the 12 Zodiacal Houses  

 

 

Very simply, “the Twelve” are the signs of the zodiac, metaphorically introduced in the mysteries, and this motif is likely the source of Jesus’s 12. During the very era when Christ had supposedly walked the earth, two prominent Jewish writers, Philo (c. 20 BCE-c. 50 AD/CE) and Josephus (37-c. 100 AD/CE), explained that the 12 Jewish tribes were symbolic of the signs of the zodiac. In Christ in Egypt, Murdock writes: As Josephus says (Antiquities, 3.8): “And for the twelve stones [of Exodus 39:9-14], whether we understand by them the months, or whether we understand the like number of the signs of that circle which the Greeks call the zodiac, we shall not be mistaken in their meaning.” (Josephus/Whiston, 75.) Earlier than Josephus, Philo (“On the Life of Moses,” 12) had made the same comments regarding Moses: “Then the twelve stones on the breast, which are not like one another in colour, and which are divided into four rows of three stones in each, what else can they be emblems of, except of the circle of the zodiac?” (Philo/Yonge, 99.)186 Philo wrote before Christ had supposedly started his ministry, yet he never heard of him. In the meantime, he had heard of the 12 tribes representing the zodiacal signs, and we subsequently read the suggestion in the gospel (Mt 19:28) that Jesus allegedly picked his disciples based on the tribes, which were in turn, according to Philo and Josephus, equated with the zodiacal 12. (for more info read Murdock, CIE, 261-262.)

 

Thus the 12 Disiples/Apostles are also parallel to the 12 houses of the Zodiac there for Dionysus/Iacchus being part of the 12 Olympians is parallel to Jesus having 12 followers so I guess our Villainous fornicator and villain of the faith will have to repent to Osiris/Dionysus or face an Egyptian lake of fire FOREVER!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to Wikipedia "The 1995 edition of the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says that the Egyptian lake of fire is too remote to be relevant to the use of "lake of fire" in the Book of Revelation." 

 

So in other words an encylopedia says that its too remote to be a parallel and that therefore that must magically make it too remote to form a parallel (*Facepalm)

 

 

For more Info in regards to the 12 concerning Ra/Osiris/Horus and Dionysus/Bacchus I shall refere you to Christ In Egypt and The Perrenial Gospel by Murdock and Boswell respectively.

 

In regards to Dionysus or Bacchus's Crucifixion there has been quite the Controversy mainly because an object presented in the film The Orpheus Bakkikos has been biasedly assailed as a forgery by "Nostalgia Critics" here is what it looks like:

 

 

 

 

Luckily Acharya S In her Pre Christian God on A Cross PDF and Francesco Carotta the author of Jesus was Caeser: on the Julian Origins of Christianity An investigative Report in a pdf he wrote both soundly debunked the forgery claims https://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/articula/Orpheos_Bakkikos_en.pdf

 

However Carrottas work and the parallels between Julius Caeser and Jesus Christ  we shall discuss much much later

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and All though it is true that the Orpheus Bakkikos Gem was created 2-300 years after Christianity began it is evidently Post Christian continuation of an evidently Pre Christian Tradition as there many Images of Bacchus that potray him as being affixed to or hanging on a post or tree as we shall see from various vases dated back to 600-300 BCE:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moreover it Is Important to Note Dionysus Connection to Osiris who was also potrayed in Cruciform as the Djed Pillar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For More Info Read Christ In Egypt the Horus-Jesus Connection and Neal Boswell's Perennial Gospel For more Info about this subject of Crucifixion and Cruciform but regardless Dionysus Was Definately hung on a post or affixed to a tree prior to Christianity and both qualify as meanings or forms of "crucifixion" and so another "Heathen" bites the dust!

 

 

Finally Dionysus or Bacchus has 3 death and ressurection tales the first of which is that as was stated from Hyginus Fabulae he was torn to pieces and through a virgin birth or virgin ressurection Semele drinks his heart and he reborn in his mothers womb the second version is that after being killed by the Titans he was repieced together again either by his Virgin Mother Demeter/Ceres or by Rhea/Ops similar to the most popular ressurection tale surronding Osiris of being put back together again by Isis after being betrayed and murdered by Typhon/Seth the final one Is When Bacchus decends to the underworld to save his deceased wife Ariadne and Virgin Mother Semele before acending to Mt Olympus (Heaven) and according to The Classical Journal, Volume 29 Bacchus Slept with Proserpine for 3 days thus would have remained in the world of the damned for a three day period before acending to heaven. Makes sense considering Plutarch and Alfred Bertholet's Accounts of Osiris being dead for 3 days before ressurecting and how Dionysus Is merely the Grecian Osiris.

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/dionysus/

 

So as we can see these critics have evidently never did there resarch so why should we take there word for it when it comes to weather anything in ZG was wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now for Mithras!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is what the heathen against our faith Frank Turek has to say

 

 

"Was Jesus Copied from Ancient Myths?" Well Apparently so

 

Here is John (The Baptist) Gleesons unprofessional and not well researched response

 

 

For starters although the Majority of Scholars argue that Mithraism was soley a Roman invention this assertion by modern scholars is simply wrong as although Franz Cumonts theory of eastern western transference is unsustainible many Scholars including Roger Beck and James R Hinnels in their investigations they replace Cumonts theories of eastern to western trasference of mithraism with sustainable ones and even many Modern Iranian Scholars like Badi Badiozamani Payam Nabarz among others who evidently know more about there countries history than the majority of western scholars have also attested to its Mithraism's Eastern Origins and Even Plutarch admited that Mithraism was imported from Persia to Rome by Sicillian Pirates Xenophon and Herodotus who lived hundreds of years before the common era also attest to the pre Christian roots of mithraism and even Justin Martyr despite Bart ERRRRMAAAN of the swamps strawman's In his fallacious/fallatio book Did Jebus Exist? as well as other early church fathers admited that mithraism was similar to christianity to the point that the Devil impersonated Christ BEFORE HIS BIRTH in the mysteries of Mithras 

 

So that settles it Mithraism is both Pre Christian and Persian NOT Roman in origin so lets listen to what some blasphemous fiends and sinful heathens had to say on this subject!:

 

These clowns are also plagiarists. A lot of their page on Mithras is a copy and paste job from a paper written by a high school kid in 1993. Here is an example:

From the original essay:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/Topics/Religion/Mithraism/David_Fingrut**.html

 

 

This widely repeated assertion — often with an agenda behind it seeking to dismiss Christianity as a hash of previous religions — is apparently not true: see M. J. Vermaseren, "The Miraculous Birth of Mithras" (Mnemosyne, 4th series, Vol. 4, pp285‑301, 1951). In brief, that author writes, pp285 f.:

This is not a description of a real birth, but this manifestation of the deity as the giver of light, pouring forth his largess every morning anew and, besides, the feminine name of the mountain were apt to lead to the conception of the birth of the god from a Mother-Goddess. Yet, the idea of Mithras as a son of Ahura-Mazda, the Knowing Lord, or as born naturally from a woman, though attested by some late Armenian writers, did not become traditional. Mithras' birth remained an obscure affair: the principal thing was that he existed and helped anyone who lived in true obedience to his laws.

Neither in the Western world did the authors conceive Mithras as a child procreated by a father or born from a woman or even from a virgin. Both classical literature and inscriptions declare that the god was born from a rock or a stone.

The paper then goes on to give many examples of depictions of the birth of Mithras — emerging from a rock, and with few exceptions as a fully-grown young man.

 

So are these villainous heathens correct? Are we Just copying and pasting highschool papers from the 90's to prove our point? are we just making shit up to further an "agenda" against Christianity.........Uh no and these are some disingenoues and quite ignorant assumptions to make about those who point these parallels out

 

First of all Vermaseren is Correct that Roman Mithraism potrays Mithra as being born from a rock and to our knowlege there are no roman cultures that openly potrayed him as being born from a goddess hence it is claimed he was "not born of a Virgin" The first Problem with Vermaserens claim is that it hinges on the ignorant mainstream (and clearly bullshit) view that Mithraism did not exist prior to its roman form and did not pre date christianity both of which I have already shown to be false and even Preistess/Nun Acharya herself in splendid defense of our Religious faith in an article on Mithra the Pagan Christ adressing these same issues essentually meaning these claims Of Mithra being soley Roman from which Vermasseren derives his conclusion are no more than Narrow minded blasphemy from the Atheistic heretics of Angra Mainyu against our Faith!

 

the Second problem with his assertion as we shall see in a bit however is that not a few modern Iranian Scholars and even Badi Badiozamani a modern Iranian politician have asserted otherwise clearly reflecting Pre Christian Armenean tradition in their claims of Mithra Being born of Anahita his Immaculate Virgin Mother so yes Mithra Is Born from a rock Vermaseren is correct but in pre Christian tradition he was born of a virgin mother so as far as Im concerned the only ones with and agenda are biased Xtian heathens and there slanderous accusations of pious believers copying young boys work and fakestream New Testament "Scholarship" as well as whoever wrote the thayer article.

 

 

"The Persian Counterpart of the Virginal-Wanton-motherly- warrior goddess Anahita" 

Dr Raphael Patai The Hebrew Goddess  (137)

 

"The basic belief in a virgin born saviour of the world must have become widely known throughout the near east in the achamenid period I.e. from the 6th century BC onward when almost all the mediteranian lands were under persian rule and it appears to have exerted some influence on Judeo-Christian thought"   

Astvat Ereta: The Avestan name for the Soasyant The Future Saviour of Zoroastrianism 

 

"According to some sources Mithras partner and Virgin mother is the angel goddess Anahita"

 

Dr Payam Nabarz the Mysteries of Mithras The Pagan belief That Shaped The Christian World

 

"in Mithraism as in popular Mazdaism Anahid the mother of Mithra is a virgin"

Mohammad Ali Amir Moezzi (78)

 

Badi Badiozamani (96)

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=NK6_hIN8SOwC&pg=PR1&dq=Iran+and+America:+Rekindling+a+Love+Lost.+California:+East-West+Understanding+Press&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU2In_n4jjAhVtAp0JHXLQAhYQuwUILjAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 

"The Saviour was born in the middle of the night between Saturday and Sunday, 24^th and 25^th of December, 272 BCE, and according to those who believed in Him from an Immaculate (Anahid) Virgin  (Xosidhag) somewhere not far from lake Hamin, Sistan, Lived for 64 years among men, and ascended to His Father Ahura Mazda in 208 BCE"

-Mohammad Moghdam 

 

https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Mithraism/mithra.htm

 

 

 "An inscription from 200 BC dedicates a SELEUCID temple in western Iran to “Anahita, as the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithra”. The ANAHITA TEMPLE at Kangavar city of Kermanshah (a western province in present-day Iran)" 

 

https://iranian.com/2012/07/30/first-iranian-goddess-of-productivity-and-values/

 

 

Frank Zindler: http://www.mythicistpapers.com/zindlercogdis.pdf

 

I also noticed a white supremacist named Jason Reza Jorgiani Discussed this in Iranian Leviathen: Mithras Abode too

 

More info can be found in Was Mithra Born Of a Virgin Mother? PDF avaiible at Amazon

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Was-Mithra-Born-Virgin-Mother-ebook/dp/B004L2LKJI/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=was+mithra+born+of+a+Virgin+mother%3F&qid=1600005232&s=books&sr=1-1

 

 

Moreover as we dicussed earlier:  “As Mithraism moved westward it proved a fertile ground for the addition of mystic meaning. Practically all the symbolism of Osiris was added to the Mithraic cultus even to the fact that Isis became the virgin mother of Mithras.” -Religions Of The World by Gerald L. Berry (56)

 

It is important to note that Dionysus (Osiris) and Isis were the parents of Apollo/Apollyon  and Artemis/Diana in some egyptian cultures as related by the Greek Historian Herodotus and of course Apollo was Syncretized with Mithras during the establishment of Roman Mithraism furthermore Apollon who was identifed with Mithras was concidered the same as Horus son of the Virgin Isis so in other words Horus=Apollo=Mithras and Horus who is the same as Apollo and Mithras is the son of Isis therefore validating the quote by Berry 

 

 

Further Validation of this info comes from the fact that Isis-Hathor, Aphrodite/Venus, Inanna/Ishtar and Athena/Minerva were Syncretized with Anahita in the Interpretatio

Graeco/Romana thus meaning Isis, Hathor, Aphrodite, Ishtar and Athena (Neith) are all the same as Anahita Immaculate Virgin Mother of Mithras which by extension makes all of these goddesses Virgin Mothers of Mithras to (at least from a mythological standpoint). Primary sources and citations for these Identifications can be found In the Was Mithras Born of A Virgin Mother? PDF I cited earlier. 

    

Even Ignoring all of that Mithras Rock Birth was a Virgin Birth to Mother Earth (Gaia) who was as Margerite Rigoglioso and other scholars have noted was a parthenogenic goddess who gave Virgin Birth to Uranus, Pontus and the Nymphs and then only afterwards married her son Uranus and gave birth to the 12 Titans but even afterwards spontaneously generated a scorpion (Constellation Scorpio) through Sexless Conception to attack Orion.

 

 

Mithra’s birthday on December 25th is so well known that even the Catholic Encyclopedia (“Mithraism”) must admit it: “The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the wintersun, unconquered by the rigours of the season.” Catholic Encyclopedia X 404 https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm

 

The earliest church commemorated it at various times from September to March, until in 354 A.D. Pope Julius I assimilated the festival with that of the birth of Mithra (December 25), in order to facilitate the more complete Christianization of the empire. Thomas Thorburn (33) 

 

As concerning the 12 again as we have established from Philo and Josephus the 12 Diciples are parallel to the 12 houses of the Zodiac which as we shall see surround Mithras to!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Concerning the Twelve within Mithraism, Murdock says: Mithra surrounded by the 12 “companions” is a motif found on many Mithraic remains and representing the 12 signs of the zodiac. The comparison of this common motif with Jesus and the 12 has been made on many occasions, including in an extensive study entitled, “Mithras and Christ: some iconographical similarities,” by Professor A. Deman in the same volume of Mithraic Studies Murdock, RZC, 20.

 

The point here is not whether or not these companions are depicted as interacting in the same manner as the disciples of Jesus but that the theme of the god or godman with the 12 surrounding him is common enough—and with very popular deities in the same region—to have served as a precedent for the Christian Twelve with Christ at their center. It surely would have struck any intelligent and half-way educated member of the Roman Empire as very odd when Christians attempted to tell their supernatural tales of a Jewish godman with 12 companions, in consideration of the fact that there were already so many of these saviors in variety of cultures.

 

 

Regarding Mithra’s miracles, Mithraic Studies editor John R. Hinnells states: ...the side panels of many Mithraic reliefs and paintings are interpreted as representations of the primeval life of the god, in which he performed miracles, experience various adventures, and celebrated an archetypal communion meal before he ascended to heaven. Hinnells 291.

 

In the Roman Empire, Mithraism became the cult of the undertakers guild. Hence, there was a focus on death and the afterlife, experienced in myth and ritual. In discussing the death-oriented Mithraic rituals, professor of New Testament and Early Christian Literature at the University of Chicago Rev. Dr. Harold R. Willoughby cites Church father Tertullian and remarks: A simulation of death in the Mithraic mysteries…is perfectly intelligible. Death was the logical preliminary to a renewal of life; hence the pretence of death by the neophyte was a perfectly natural antecedent to the regenerative experiences of baptism and sacramental communion that followed in the Mithraic ritual. That this was precisely the interpretation put upon this bit of liturgical fiction is clearly suggested by a passage in Tertullian. In discussing the Mithraic rites of baptism and communion, the Christian lawyer affirmed: “Mithra there brings in the symbol of a resurrection.” This striking use of the phrase imago resurrection is doubly significant. It proves that a simulation of death was an integral part of Mithraic ritual, and also that it was but antecedent to an experience of regeneration. Willoughby, 110-111.

 

"Dupuis tells us that Mithra was put to death by crucifixion, and rose again on the 25th of March. In the Persian Mysteries the body of a young man, apparently dead, was exhibited, which was feigned to be restored to life. By his sufferings he was believed to have worked their salvation, and on this account he was called their Saviour. His priests watched his tomb to the midnight of the vigil of the 25th of March, with loud cries, and in darkness; when all at once the light burst forth from all parts, the priest cried, Rejoice, O sacred initiated, your God is risen. His death, his pains, and sufferings have worked your salvation." JP Lundy Monumental Christianity (168)

 

 

"On Black Friday (cf. Good Friday) the taurobolium, or bull-slaying, was represented. At this festival, the sacrament often comprised blood drinking. Mithras, worn out by the battle was symbolically represented by a stone image lain on a bier as a corpse. He was mourned for in liturgy, and placed in a sacred rock tomb called “Petra,” from which he was removed after three days in a great festival of rejoicing." Religions Of The World by Gerald L. Berry (57)

 

 

 

"...for centuries Mihragān...was celebrated in the spring. For many generations, therefore, Mithra’s feast was observed at a time traditionally associated with the Zoroastrian feast of the resurrection." Hinnells, I, 108.

 

 “The Zoroastrian theologians are indeed recorded as saying...that as an autumn feast Mihragān was a symbol of resurrection and the end of the world...Hinnells, I, 114.

 

John R Hinnels quoting Mary Boyce

 

 

 

 

Among other titles, Mithra was said to be, “Mighty in strength, mighty rulers, greatest king of gods! O Sun, lord of heaven and earth, God of Gods!”194 He was also called “the mediator.” Mithra shared many such epithets with Christ, as Berry demonstrates: Both Mithras and Christ were described variously as “the way,” “the truth,” “the light,” “the life,” “the word,” “the son of god,” “the good shepherd...” In this same regard, Iranian scholar Dr. Payam Nabarz states, “Mithras is described as the lord of wide pastures, the lord of truth and contracts.” And Dr. Marvin Meyers, a professor of Religious Studies at Chapman College, says: Already among the ancient Indo-Iranian peoples, Mithras was known as a god of light, truth, and integrity.... The Avesta calls Mithra “the lord of wide pastures”...

 

 

Legge, II, 266.  

De Jong, 172.  

Berry, 57.  

Nabarz, 25.  

Meyer, 199.

 

The Mithraic sacred day being Sunday represents a well-known tradition. As the Catholic Encyclopedia states, “Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra…” Berry concurs: Since Mithras was a sun-god, Sunday was automatically sacred to him—the “Lords Day”—long before Christ. Dr. Ezquerra also states, “Some say the Lord’s Day was celebrated on Sunday because that was the Dies Solis, the day of the Sun, which in turn had something to do with Mithraism.” Concerning Mithraism and Christianity, the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia summarizes: The birth of Mithra and of Christ were celebrated on the same day; tradition placed the birth of both in a cave; both regarded Sunday as sacred; in both the central figure was a mediator (mesitēs) who was one of a triad or trinity; in both there was a sacrifice for the benefit of the race... If tradition in India is an indication, this celebration of Mithra’s sacred time on Sunday possibly dates back to Vedic ages, 3,000 or more years ago, with his Indian counterpart Mitra being celebrated into modern times on this day as well: “...the deity is invoked every Sunday under the name of Mitra in a small pitcher placed on a small earthen platform...”

 

Berry, 57.  

Ezquerra, 409.  

Jackson, S., VII, 419.  

Gonda, 131

 

 

 

So as we Can see Religion For Breakfast Mike Winger, Steven Bancarz, Frank Turek (Taurus), The Sinful Heathen who accused us of Plagerism and the AntiChrist/Servant Of Mainyu who wrote the Thayer article are *Ahem* "Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong youre wrong youre wrong youre wrooooong!" -DR Cox

 

 

 

 

Next Up BUDDAH BUDDAH BUDDAHH!!!

 

 

Buddha 

 

Although most people think of Buddha as being one person who lived around 500 BCE, the character commonly portrayed as Buddha can also be demonstrated to be a compilation of godmen, legends and sayings of various holy men both preceding and succeeding the period attributed to the Buddha (Gautama/ Gotama), as was demonstrated by Robertson: . . . Gotama was only one of a long series of Buddhas who arise at intervals and who all teach the same doctrine. The names of twenty-four of such Buddhas who appeared before Gotama have been recorded. . . . It was held that after the death of each Buddha, his religion flourishes for a time and then decays. After it is forgotten, a new Buddha emerges and preaches the lost Dhamma, or Truth. . . . It seems quite probable in the light of these facts that any number of teachings attributed to “the Buddha” may have been in existence either before or at the time when Gotama was believed to have lived. . . . The name Gotama is a common one; it is also full of mythological associations. There was admittedly another Gotama known to the early Buddhists, who founded an order. So what proof is there that the sayings and doings of different Gotamas may not have been ascribed to one person? . . .ccxlix 

 

Because of this non-historicity and of the following characteristics of the Buddha myth, which are not widely known but which have their hoary roots in the mists of time, we can safely assume that Buddha is yet another personification of the ancient, universal mythos being revealed herein. The Buddha character has the following in common with the Christ figure:

 

• Buddha was born on December 25thccl of the virgin Maya, and his birth was attended by a “Star of Announcement,”ccli wise men cclii and angels singing heavenly songs.ccliii 

 

• At his birth, he was pronounced ruler of the world and presented with “costly jewels and precious substances.”ccliv 

 

• His life was threatened by a king “who was advised to destroy the child, as he was liable to overthrow him.”cclv 

 

• Buddha was of royal lineage. 

 

• He taught in the temple at 12.cclvi 

 

• He crushed a serpent’s head (as was traditionally said of Jesus) and was tempted by Mara, the “Evil One,” when fasting. 

 

• Buddha was baptized in water, with the “Spirit of God” or “Holy Ghost” present.cclvii 

 

• He performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a “small basket of cakes,” and walked on water. cclviii 

 

• Buddha abolished idolatry, was a “sower of the word,” and preached “the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness.”cclix 

 

• His followers were obliged to take vows of poverty and to renounce the world.cclx 

 

• He was transfigured on a mount, when it was said that his face “shone as the brightness of the sun and moon.”cclxi 

 

• In some traditions, he died on a cross.cclxii 

• He was resurrected, as his coverings were unrolled from his body and his tomb was opened by supernatural powers.cclxiii 

 

• Buddha ascended bodily to Nirvana or “heaven.” 

 

• He was called “Lord,” “Master,” the “Light of the World,” “God of Gods,” “Father of the World,” “Almighty and All-knowing Ruler,” “Redeemer of All,” “Holy One,” the “Author of Happiness,” “Possessor of All,” the “Omnipotent,” the “Supreme Being,” the “Eternal One.”cclxiv 

 

• He was considered the “Sin Bearer,” “Good Shepherd,” cclxv the “Carpenter,”cclxvi the “Infinite and Everlasting,”cclxvii and the “Alpha and Omega.”cclxviii 

 

• He came to fulfill, not destroy, the law.cclxix 

 

• Buddha is to return “in the latter days” to restore order and to judge the dead.”cclxx 

 

In addition to the characteristics of the “teaching/savior god” as outlined above, the Buddhistic influence in Christianity includes: Renouncing the world and its riches, including sex and family; the brotherhood of man; the virtue of charity and turning the cheek; and conversion. That Buddhism preceded Christianity is undeniable, as is its influence in the world long prior to the beginning of the Christian era. As Walker relates: Established 500 years before Christianity and widely publicized throughout the Middle East, Buddhism exerted more influence on early Christianity than church fathers liked to admit, since they viewed Oriental religions in general as devil worship. . . . Stories of the Buddha and his many incarnations circulated incessantly throughout the ancient world, especially since Buddhist monks traveled to Egypt, Greece, and Asia Minor four centuries before Christ, to spread their doctrines. . . . Many scholars have pointed out that the basic tenets of Christianity were basic tenets of Buddhism first; but it is also true that the ceremonies and trappings of both religions were more similar than either has wanted to acknowledge.cclxxi As to Buddhistic influence in the specific area where the Christ drama purportedly took place, Larson states: Buddhist missionaries penetrated every portion of the then known world, including Greece, Egypt, Baktria, Asia Minor, and the Second Persian Empire. Palestine must have been permeated by Buddhist ideology during the first century. . . . The literature of India proves that Jesus drew heavily upon Buddhism, directly or indirectly, to obtain not simply the content of His ethics, but the very form in which it was delivered. Both Gautama and Jesus found parable effective.cclxxii Indeed, it seems that a number of Jesus’s parables were direct lifts from Buddhism; for example, that of the prodigal son.cclxxiii The existence of Buddhism in the Middle East during the Christian era is acknowledged by Christian apologists themselves such as Cyril and Clement of Alexandria, who said the Samaneans or Buddhists were priests of Persia.cclxxiv Furthermore, a number of scholars have pushed back the origins of Buddhism many thousands of years prior to the alleged advent of Gautama Buddha. Albert Churchward also traces the Buddha myth originally to Egypt: The first Buddha was called Hermias, and can be traced back to Set of the Egyptians; he originated in the Stellar Cult. Later, however, the Solar Cult was carried to India, and the Buddha is there the representative of Ptah of the Egyptians. . . . . Sakya-Muni or Gautama, whose life and history were evolved from the pre-extant mythos, the true Buddha, . . . could become no more historical than the Christ of the gnosis. If Buddhism could but explicate its own origins, it would become apparent that it is both natural and scientific, i.e. the old Stellar Cult of Egypt. But the blind attempt to make the Buddha historical in one person will place it ultimately at the bottom of a dark hole.cclxxv Higgins also evinced that true “Buddhism” is much more ancient than the legends of the Buddha, since in ancient Indian temples long predating the era of “Gautama” are depictions of the Buddha as a black man, not only in color but in feature.cclxxvi In Higgins’s opinion, Buddhism has been the most widespread religion on the planet, also found in England, where it was the religion of the Druids. He also states that the “Hermes of Egypt, or Buddha, was well known to the ancient Canaanites,” i.e., the people who preceded and in large part became the Israelites. Therefore, Buddhism was no doubt an early influence on Hebrew thought and religion. 

 

ccl. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And Their Parallels In Other Religions (363) 

 

ccli. Albert Churchward The Origin and Evolution of Religion (334) 

 

cclii. Thomas Doane Bible Myths and There Parallels In Other Religions, (290) 

 

ccliii. Martin A Larson Story Of Christmas Origins (136) 

 

Thomas Doane Bible Myths and There Parallels In Other Religions (147), (290) 

 

ccliv. Thomas Doane Bible Myths and There Parallels In Other Religions (290) 

 

cclv.Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions (168). 

 

cclvi.Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions(291) 

 

cclvii.Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions(292) 

 

cclviii. GRS Mead, Gospels And Gospels  (133) 

 

cclix. GRS Mead, Gospels and Gospels (133) 

 

cclx Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions (294) 

 

cclxi. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions(292) 

 

cclxii. Albert Pike Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (290) Godfrey Higgins Anacalypsis Volume I (159), (444) 

 

cclxiii.Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions(293) 

 

cclxiv.Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions(116) 

 

cclxv. Helena Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled Volume II (209), (537-538) 

 

cclxvi. Gerald Massey, The Historical Jesus And The Mythical Christ (150) 

 

cclxvii. GRS Mead, (134). 

 

cclxviii. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions (292) 

 

cclxix. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions (294) 

 

cclxx. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And There Parallels In Other Religions (293) 

 

cclxxi. Barbara Walker Woman’s Encyclopedia Of Myths and Secrets, (123) 

 

cclxxii. Martin A Larson Story Of Christmas Origins (142-8) 

 

cclxxiii. Martin A Larson The Story Of Christmas Origins (149) 

 

cclxxiv. Godfrey Higgins Anacalypsis Volume 1 (163) 

 

cclxxv. Albert Churchward The Origins And Evolution Of Religion (331) (339) 

 

cclxxvi. Godfrey Higgins Anacalypsis Volume 1 (161) 

 

 

Next Quetzalqoatl!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quetzalcoatl of Mexico 

 

Modern scientific orthodoxy allows neither for the date provided by Graves, i.e., that the Mexican Quetzalcoatl originated in the 6th century BCE, nor for preColumbian contact between the “Old” and “New” Worlds. 

 

The evidence, however, reveals that the mythos was indeed in Mexico long before the Christian era, suggesting such contact between the Worlds. 

 

In fact, tradition holds that the ancient Phoenicians, expert navigators, knew about the “lost land” to the West. 

 

One would therefore not be surprised to discover that the stories of the New World were contained in ancient libraries prior to the Christian era, such as at Alexandria, as was averred by Graves.cccxxx 

 

However it got there, there can be no doubt as to the tremendous similarity between the Mexican religion and Catholicism. As Doane remarks: For ages before the landing of Columbus on its shores, the inhabitants of ancient Mexico worshiped a “Saviour”—as they called him—(Quetzalcoatle) who was born of a pure virgin.

 

 A messenger from heaven announced to his mother that she should bear a son without connection with man. Lord Kingsborough tells us that the annunciation of the virgin Sochiquetzal, mother of Quetzalcoatle—who was styled the “Queen of Heaven”—was the subject of a Mexican hieroglyph.cccxxxi 

 

Quetzalcoatl was also designated the morning star, was tempted and fasted for 40 days, and was consumed in a eucharist using a proxy, named after Quetzalcoatl. 

 

As Walker says: This devoured Savior, closely watched by his ten or twelve guards, embodied the god Quetzalcoatl, who was born of a virgin, slain in atonement for primal sin, and whose Second Coming was confidently expected. He was often represented as a trinity signified by three crosses, a large one between the smaller ones. 

 

Father Acosta naively said, “It is strange that the devil after his manner hath brought a Trinity into idolatry.” His church found it all too familiar, and long kept his book as one of its secrets.cccxxxii 

The Mexicans revered the cross and baptized their children in a ritual of regeneration and rebirth long before the Christian contact.cccxxxiii In one of the few existing Codices is an image of the Mexican savior bending under the weight of a burdensome cross, in exactly the same manner in which Jesus is depicted. 

 

The Mexican crucifix depicted a man with nail holes in feet and hands, the Mexican Christ and redeemer who died for man’s sins. In one crucifix image, this Savior was covered with suns.cccxxxiv 

 

Furthermore, the Mexicans had monasteries and nunneries, and called their high priests Papes. cccxxxv The Mexican savior and rituals were so disturbingly similar 

to the Christianity of the conquering Spaniards that Cortes was forced to use the standard, specious complaint that “the Devil had positively taught to the Mexicans the same things which God had taught to Christendom.”cccxxxvi 

 

The Spaniards were also compelled to destroy as much of the evidence as was possible, burning books and defacing and wrecking temples, monuments and other artifacts. 

 

cccxxx. Kersey Graves World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors. 

 

cccxxxi.   Thomas Doane Bible Myths And Their Parallels 

                In Other Religions, (129). 

 

cccxxxii. Barbara Walker Women’s Encyclopedia Of Myths                

Secrets (47) 

 

cccxxxiii. Godfrey Higgins Anacalypsis Volume II (30-31) 

 

cccxxxiv. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And Their Parallels 

                In Other Religions (200) 

 

cccxxxv. Thomas Doane Bible Myths And Their Parallels 

                In Other Religions (404) 

 

cccxxxvi. Edward Carpenter Pagan and Christian Creeds (25) 

 

The speed with which many Mesoamerican people converted to Christianity had much to do with Quetzalcoatl. Some people converted because they identified Cortes with their god; they believed the new rituals the Spanish missionaries introduced were another version of practices used to worship Quetzalcoatl. This process was aided by a resemblance between the Spanish missionaries and the Aztec priests of Tenochtitlan, both of whom wore long black coats. Other people converted because they identified Christ with Quetzalcoatl. Both figures had a message of peace; in addition, the myth of Quetzalcoatl’s descent into the underworld to find bones for a future human race, and the use of his own blood to bring the bones to life, had parallels in the story of Christ’s crucifixion, death and resurrection. (Littleton, Gods, Goddesses and Mythology, v. 11. New York: Marshall Cavendish, 2005; p. 1203.)

 

 

 

 

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/our-lord-and-savior-quetzalcoatl/

 

 

 

 

Next Herakles or as all the sinful plebs and conservatives of the west will know him as Hercules!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Special Thanks to Roger Viklund and DM Murdock for the following info 

 

As we have already went over according to Pseudo Apollodorus Herakles mother Alcmena refrained from having sex until he was born meaning Hercules was born of a Voigin

 

Heracles has a mortal stepfather named Amphitryon. But like Joseph (Matthew 2:4ff), Amphitryon does not have sexual intercourse with his wife until the divine conception has taken place and she still is a virgin

 

“Wishing to avenge his sons’ death, Electryon purposed to make war on the Teleboans, but first he committed the kingdom to Amphitryon along with his daughter Alcmena, binding him by oath to keep her a virgin until his return. ... Amphitryon went with Alcmena and Licymnius to Thebes and was purified by Creon and gave his sister Perimede to Licymnius. And as Alcmena said she would marry him when he had avenged her brothers’ death, Amphitryon engaged to do so, and undertook an expedition against the Teleboans, and invited Creon to assist him. Creon said he would join in the expedition if Amphitryon would first rid the Cadmea of the vixen; for a brute of a vixen was ravaging the Cadmea. ... But before Amphitryon reached Thebes, Zeus came by night and prolonging the one night threefold he assumed the likeness of Amphitryon and bedded with Alcmena and related what had happened concerning the Teleboans. But when Amphitryon arrived and saw that he was not welcomed by his wife, he inquired the cause; and when she told him that he had come the night before and slept with her, he learned from Tiresias how Zeus had enjoyed her. And Alcmena bore two sons, to wit, Hercules, whom she had by Zeus and who was the elder by one night, and Iphicles, whom she had by Amphitryon.” (Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library, 2:4:6-8).

 

Heracles’ mortal parents make a trip from their hometown Mycenae to Thebes where Zeus makes Alcmene pregnant and she gives birth to Heracles.It was commonly held that virgin sons were born during flights or travels, and that was the case when Isis gave birth to Horus.

 

“When Electryon reigned over Mycenae … Wishing to avenge his sons’ death, Electryon purposed to make war on the Teleboans, but first he committed the kingdom to Amphitryon along with his daughter Alcmena, binding him by oath to keep her a virgin until his return.” (Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library, 2:4:6).

 

 

“Even Zeus, who they say is the greatest of the gods and men, was blinded by her, when Hera, a mere female, with her cunning tactics, deceived him that very day Alcmene was to give birth to mighty Hercules, in Thebes, city with the splendid walls.” (Homer, The Iliad, 19:93-99 [Loeb]). Another translation of The Iliad by Ian Johnston.

 

“Aset/Isis appears textually earliest within the Pyramid Texts. … Khemmis, referred to in the Pyramid Texts as the place where Isis fled to bear Horus, the son of Osiris, was in the Delta. Also known as Akhmim, Isis hid there with Her son until he grew old enough to put forth his claim to the Kingship as heir to His father Osiris/Wesir.”: “The Great One has fallen in Nedit, the throne is released by its occupant (?). She who is in Iseion raises you, the god is released. Heru [Horus] comes forth from Chemmis; Pe attends on Heru and he is purified there. Heru comes pure that he may protect his father…..” (Pyramid text, Utt. 701, sect 2188-2195, Aset in the Earliest Ancient Texts). ”O you plebs, look on me, the son of Isis; I was conceived in Pe and born in Chemmis;...” (Spell 286, Excerpts of Coffin Texts Referencing Aset/Isis).

 

 

"Hercules the son of Zeus was called "The Saviour" The words "Hercules The Saviour" were engraven on ancient coins and monuments He was called "The Only Begotten" and the "Universal Word" He was reabsorbed into God He was said by Ovid to be "self produced" the Generator and ruler of all things and the father of time" Thomas Doane Bible Myths and there parallels in other religions 193

 

 

In her Wahmen's encyclopedia series Barbera Walker had this to say

 

Alcmene

 

" "Power of the Moon" Virgin mother of the solar Savior Hercules she was the greek form of the Hebrew word almah "moon woman" who mothered sacred kings in the jerusalem cult and whose title was bestowed upon the Virgin Mary Parallels between the earlier myths of Alcmena and the later myths of Mary are too numerous to be coincedental Alcmene's husband refrained from sexual relations until her god-begotten child was born the couple went on a journey so that the child has a birth place which is not his parents home Hercules also grew up to die a sacrificial death after which he visited the underworld and harrowed it then rose to heaven to be assimilated to his divine father to marry the goddesses virgin aspect all over again to beget himself anew"  

 

Barbara Walker Womens Encyclopedia of Women's Secrets (22)

 

"Walker also recounts the story of Hercules and its relationship to the Christian tale: His Twelve Labors symbolized the sun’s passage through the twelve houses of the zodiac . . . After his course was finished, he was clothed in the scarlet robe of the sacred king and killed, to be resurrected as his own divine father, to ascend to heaven . . . The influence of Heracles’s cult on early Christianity can hardly be overestimated. St. Paul’s home town of Tarsus regularly reenacted the sacred drama of Heracles’s death by fire, which is why Paul assumed there was great saving virtue in giving one’s body to be burned, like the Heracles-martyrs (1 Corinthians 13:3). Heracles was called Prince of Peace, Sun of Righteousness, Light of the World. He was the same sun greeted daily by the Persians and Essenes with the ritual phrase, “He is risen.” The same formula announced Jesus’s return from the underworld (Mark 16:6). He was sacrificed at the spring equinox (Easter), the New Year festival by the old reckoning. He was born at the winter solstice (Christmas), when the sun reaches his nadir and the constellation of the Virgin rises in the east. As Albert the Great put it centuries later, “The sign of the celestial virgin rises above the horizon, at the moment we find fixed for the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

 

Derived from: Barbera Walker Woman’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets (393-4) And Christ Conspiracy

 

 

 

Jesus Christs 12 Disciples are Parallel to the 12 Houses Of the Zodiac as we have already seen from Philo of Alexandria and Flavius Josephus and Herakles/Hercules 12 Labours are also parallel to the Zodiacal 12 

 

"The Phonecians had a tradition that Hercules was the god Sun that magnificent star which vivifies all nature which engenders the year composed of twelve months figured by the twelve works called the twelve works of Hercules. We are informed by Porphyry That Hercules was a personification of the Sun and that the fable of the twelve works merely expressed and did convey the idea to the learned of the aparant march of that star through the 12 signs of the Zodiac Hesiod informs us that the Zodiac in which the Sun achieves his annual course is the veritable career run through Hercules in the fable of the twelve works and that by his marriage with Hebe goddess of youth that he espouses after finishing his career we are to understand the year which renews itself at the end of each revolution"

 

The Existence of Christ Disproved by a series of irresistable evidence in a series of letters From a German Jew (86)   

 

So as we can clearly see Hercules 12 Labours are parallel to Jesus 12 Apostles 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In The Book of Revalations The Archangel Michael (Sun) and Jesus do battle against Azazel/Devil in the form of a great red dragon with 7 heads and 10 Horns which is Parallel to Hercules battle with the 9 headed Dragon or "Wicked Serpent" The Lernean Hydra during his 12 Labours

 

 

 

 

 

The god Hermes shows Heracles the realms of the king and the tyrant from a high mountain. Jesus also meets this fate, when the Devil shows him the glory of the kingdoms of the earth from a high mountain, and promises that he can rule them all (Matthew 4:8).

 

The father of Heracles [Zeus] is worried about the temptations that might “entice a youth of fine natural qualities [i.e. Heracles] away from his true nature and his principles even against his will.” He therefore sent his messenger god Hermes to Heracles and Hermes “led him over a secret path untrodden of man till he came to a conspicuous and very lofty mountain-peak whose sides were dreadfully steep.” But there are actually two peaks, “rising from a single base”. “The one of them bore the name Peak Royal and was sacred to Zeus the king; the other, peak Tyrannous, was named after the giant Typhon.” Only one path leads to Peak Royal, and it is “safe and broad”. On that peak, which was much higher sat Lady Royalty together with some other people, and they represented Justice, Civic Order, Peace and Law. The path to the peak of Tyranny “was narrow, crooked and difficult” to walk. But in fact the mountain peak was “undermined on every side and tunnelled” and there were many “unseen and hidden corridors”, which according to Chrysostom, no doubt led “up to the very throne, and that all the passages and bypaths were smeared with blood and strewn with corpses.” On that throne, which was “far loftier and more splendid”, sat Tyranny. At her side, she had “Cruelty, Insolence, Lawlessness and Faction”. Also “Flattery was there”. Hermes then “asked him which of the two scenes pleased him and which of the two women.” And Heracles said that he would gladly thrust Tyranny “down from this peak and put an end to her”. “Hermes commended Heracles for this utterance and repeated it to Zeus, who entrusted him [Heracles] with the kingship of all mankind as he considered him equal to the trust.” (My summary of Dio Chrysostom [c. 40–c. 120 CE], Orations, 1:64-84 [Loeb], Compare this to Matthew 4:8-11).

 

Hercules is called the savior (Jesus = Soter/Savior)  “And so wherever Heracles discovered a tyranny and a tyrant, he chastised and destroyed them, among Greeks and barbarians alike; but wherever he found a kingdom and a king, he would give honour and protection.’ This, she maintained, was what made him Deliverer [Greek: σοτηερα, soter; Saviour, Deliverer, Preserver] of the earth and of the human race, not the fact that he defended them from the savage beasts­—for how little damage could a lion or a wild bear inflict?—nay, it was the fact that he chastised savage and wicked men, and crushed and destroyed the power of overweening tyrants. And even to this day Heracles continues this work and you have in him a helper and protector of your government as long as it is vouchsafed you to reign.” (Dio Chrysostom [c. 45-120 CE], Orationes, 1:84 [Loeb]).

 

According to the Roman Emperor Julian and the Stoic Philosopher Seneca Hercu-Jesus like his Christianization walked on water! 

 

“I do not think it was really a cup, but my belief is that he himself walked on the sea as though it were dry land. For what was impossible to Heracles?” (Emperor Julian [331 or 332-363 CE], Orations, 7:219 D [Loeb]).

 

Hercules Crossed the Seas on Foot" (Seneca, Hercules Furens 322-324)

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Herakles raised a lovely princess named Alcestis from the dead Apollonius (Paul) style! 

 

“… at once woke up the maiden from her seeming death; and the girl spoke out loud and returned to her father’s house, just as Alcestis did when she was brought back to life by Hercules.” (Philostratus [c. 170–c. 245 CE], The Life of Apollonius of Tyana, 4:45).

 

His greatest acomplishment is to overcome death and his own death leads to eternal life!

 

Enter HERCULES just returned from the lower world: … “The chaos of everlasting night, and something worse than night, and the grim gods and the fates – all these I saw and, having flouted death, I have come back. What else remains? I have seen and revealed the lower world. If aught is left to do, give it to me, O Juno; too long already dost thou let my hands lie idle. What dost thou bid me conquer? But why do hostile soldiers guard the shrine and dreadful arms beset the sacred portal?” (Seneca, [ca 4 fvt-65 vt], Hercules Furens, 610-617).

“Thereafter he obtained immortality” (Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library, 2:7:7). 

 

“This is the origin of Hercules ... And these benefactors were duly deemed divine, as being both supremely good and immortal, because their souls survived and enjoyed eternal life.” (Cicero, De Natura Deorum, 2:24; quoted in THEOI PROJECT, Apotheothenai, deified men & women) “… he should receive the gift of immortality.” (Diodorus Siculus, Library of History, 4:10:7 [Loeb]).

 

Hercules 2nd Wife Deinara poisons and kills the dumb brute/barbarian by mistake and like Judas Iscariott (Brutus) kills herself out of remorse by hanging

 

“... but Deianeira was so stricken by the magnitude of Heracles’ misfortune that, being consious of the error, she ended her life by hanging herself” (Diodorus Siculus [c. 90–22 BCE), Library of History, 4:38:3 [Loeb]).

 

“From him Deianira learned about Iole, and fearing that Hercules might love that damsel more than herself, she supposed that the spilt blood of Nessus was in truth a love-charm, and with it she smeared the tunic. So Hercules put it on and proceeded to offer sacrifice. But no sooner was the tunic warmed than the poison of the hydra began to corrode his skin; and on that he lifted Lichas by the feet, hurled him down from the headland, and tore off the tunic, which clung to his body, so that his flesh was torn away with it. In such a sad plight he was carried on shipboard to Trachis: and Deianira, on learning what had happened, hanged herself.” (Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library, 2:7:7).

 

Deianira: “The death alone shall be a place of refuge (actually: port) for my worries. I am calling the flaming wheel of the brilliant Phoebus and the Gods as my witnesses: Hercules still on earth, I am leaving dying.” Or: “DEIANIRA: The only haven granted my troubles will be death. Witness bright Phoebus’ fiery chariot, witness the gods above: in going to my death I leave Hercules still here on earth.” (Seneca, Hercules Oetaeus, 1020-24 [Loeb]).

 

Melqart/Hercules was killed and ressurected in 2 ways in one myth he is killed by the hundred headed Typhon (Devil of Greek mythology) and resurrected by his Nephew Ioalus with the aid of a quail and Sophocles and Diodorus record another tale where he is burned to death on Mount Oeta parallel to Jesus dying on a hill 

and then acends to Heaven (Olympus) in a newly ressurected form:

 

“And Eudoxus the Cnidian, in the first book of his Description of the Circuit of the Earth, says that the Phoenicians sacrifice quails to Hercules, because Hercules, the son of Asteria and Jupiter, when on his way toward Libya, was slain by Typhon and restored to life by Iolaus …” (Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae [The Banquet of the Learned at Dinner], 9:392 [c. 200 CE]. He refers to his source Eudoxus of Cnidus, who lived c. 408–c. 355 BCE).

 

Iolaus resuscitated Heracles by burning a quail, “and because of the smoke, Heracles returned to life”. (Mettinger, p. 106). He refers to Zenobius, Centuria Sexta, 5:56.

 

 

“Heracles: Good, then do you know the summit of Oeta, Zeus’s sacred mountain? Hyllus: I know it. I have often stood on that height to sacrifice. Heracles: Then, you must carry my body there after raising it up in your own hands, aided by as many of our friends as you require; and when you have cut many a branch from the deep-rooted oak and chopped down many a sturdy wild-olive, you must lay my body on them and with a flaming pine-torch burn it.” (Sophocles [c. 496–406 BCE], The Trachiniae, 1191-1198).

 

“And immediately lightning also fell from the heavens and the pyre was wholly consumed. After this, when the companions of Iolaüs came to gather up the bones of Heracles and found not a single bone anywhere, they assumed that, in accordance with the words of the oracle, he had passed from among men into the company of the gods.” (Diodorus Siculus [c. 90–22 BCE), Library of History, 4:38:4-5 [Loeb]).

 

Here is what Share and Carre had to say

 

Hercules

Melqart is another of the most ancient of resurrected deities, akin to Baal in both his origins and possible future co-option into later Hellenistic mystery cults. His legend became fused with that of Hercules. Centuries before Christianity, and attested by authors of the Roman period, Eudoxus of Cnidus wrote that Hercules was “killed by Typhon, but Iolaus brought a quail to him, and having put it close to him,” and ritually burning it, “he smelt it and came to life again” (Athenaeus, The Dinnersages 9.392d-e; see Mettinger, p. 86). And Josephus attests to ongoing celebrations of “Resurrecting Hercules” (tou Hrakleous egersin: in Jewish Antiquities 8.146; mistranslated in Whiston: see Mettinger, pp. 88-89). In both accounts, this is explicitly said to be a story of the Tyrian Hercules, which we know meant Melqart, whose base of worship was at Tyre.

Diodorus tells another story of Hercules killed by fire—dying of poison, he is burned on a pyre. Because his bones then vanished when Iolaus tried to collect them, the story goes, it was concluded Hercules was resurrected and ascended to heaven (Diodorus, Library of History 4.38.5). The supposition of resurrection upon the vanishing of a corpse was not only a common motif in antiquity, it is essentially the story told of Jesus (for a full study of this mytheme in antiquity see Richard Miller’s 2017 book Resurrection and Reception in Early Christianity; and Ava Chitwood’s 2004 book Death by Philosophy). The addition of appearance narratives to seal the deal, also accompanies many of these tales (Romulus, for example). And there may have been such for Hercules. But in any event, it was clearly believed he had died, and been raised from the dead, and then ascended to heaven with divine power. Just like Jesus.

Mettinger finds a slew of pre-Hellenistic evidence referring to the “raisers of Melqart” and to Melqart as “the risen” and his ceremony as “the rising” (pp. 90-97). That I find ambiguous by itself, but it is more telling in context. As the remaining evidence for a resurrected Tyrian Hercules, the Hellenistic Melqart, remains conclusive. Perhaps the best evidence for Meqart is a votive object actually depicting the death, burial, mourning-of, and resurrection of Melqart (Mettinger, pp. 98-100; indeed, a three day sequence is here again implied: p. 102). As the second century wit Lucian observed, the popular belief is that upon death “all bodily things…a man strips off and abandons before he mounts up, like Heracles burning on Mount Oeta before deification; he too cast off whatever of the human he had from his mother, and soared up to the Gods with his divine part pure and unalloyed, sifted by the fire” (Lucian, Hermotimus 7; see scholarship in Not the Impossible Faith, p. 121, n. 13). Thus again, though his “resurrection” is portrayed as a direct ascent to heaven, nevertheless he died, was dead, and then cast off his corpse, and rose back to life, ascending, in his superior divine body, after its mortal material was burned away on the pyre.

 

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

 

In one of the most astonishing Parallels between these two Seneca in his play Hercules Oetus records a Darkness in the Sky and a Massive earthquake occur upon Hercules death!

 

Hercules: “Bright Titan, turn around your panting horses, release the night! Let the world lose this day of my death, let heaven be roiled with black clouds: block my stepmother’s view! Now, father, blind chaos should be restored; both poles should be smashed, the firmament shattered from end to end. Why spare the stars? You are losing Hercules, father. Now, Jupiter, look to every quarter of heaven, lest some Gyges hurl Thessalian peaks, and Othrys prove a light weight for Enceladus. … My death, father, will put the entire realm of the sky at risk for you. Before you are completely despoiled of the heavens, hide me, father, in the utter ruin of the cosmos, smash the sky that you are losing.” (Seneca, Hercules Oetaeus, 1131-50 [Loeb]).

 

 

one of Jesus most famous moments is when he tells his virgin mother Mary not to cry and that he is going to heaven and right before death says is "It Is Finished' 

both of which were said of Hercules:

 

“iam parce, mater, questibus”: „laß nunmehr ab von deinen Klagen, Mutter!” “Refrain now from lamenting, mother”. (Seneca, Hercules Oetaeus, 1965 [Loeb]).

 

“Me iam decet subire caelestem plagam”: „Ich muß nunmehr in himmlische Gefilde eingehen”. “Now I must ascend to the heavenly regions”. (Seneca, Hercules Oetaeus, 1975 [Loeb]).

 

“After this, when the companions of Iolaüs came to gather up the bones of Heracles and found not a single bone anywhere, they assumed that, in accordance with the words of the oracle, he had passed from among men into the company of the gods.” (Diodorus Siculus, The Library, 4:38:5).

 

“While the pyre was burning, it is said that a cloud passed under Hercules and with a peal of thunder wafted him up to heaven. Thereafter he obtained immortality …” 

(Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library, 2:7:7). Compare this to John 20:15,17.

 

“Habet, peractum est, fata se nostra explicant”, or “Bene est, peractum est, fata se nostra explicant”. “It is death (enough), it is completed, my (our) fate unfolds itself.” (Seneca, Hercules Oetaeus, 1472 [Loeb]); “Jesus said, ‘It is finished.’” (John 19:30).

 

The rest of the parallels you can find here: http://www.jesusgranskad.se/jesus_parallels.htm 

Again a special thanks to Roger Viklund for most of this info.

 

So If I had to choose between worshiping a virgin born killed and ressurected saviour who is little more than a crucified Jew or one who has huge ass muscels nice abs and a club with a lionskin headress....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nuff Said...

 

 

 

 

NEXT!! Asclepius or Ass Clipius as i like to call him lol!

 

 

 

 

THOSE WHO, BY PERMISSION OF THE PARCAE, RETURNED FROM THE LOWER WORLD “Asclepius, son of Apollo and Coronis.” (Gaius Julius Hyginus [c. 64 BC-17 AD], Fabulae, 251). Possibly written by some unknown author in the second century CE.

 

“Hippolytus’ wounded body was carried along, till he gave up his spirit, to Diana’s great anger. ‘There’s no need for grief,’ said Aesculapius: I’ll restore the pious youth to life, free of wounds, and sad fate will yield to my skill.’ Quickly he took medicines from an ivory casket ... he touched his breast three times, three times spoke words of healing: the youth lifted his head from the ground. Hippolytus hid in his own sacred grove, in the depths of Diana’s woods: he is Virbius [The reborn, that is immortal, Hippolytus was in Roman mythology called Virbius] of the Arician Lake... Phoebus, you complained: but Aesculapius is a god ...” (Ovid [43 BCE-c. 18 CE], Fasti, 6:735).

 

MORTALS WHO WERE MADE IMMORTAL “Asclepius, son of Apollo and Coronis”. (Hyginus, Fabulae, 224).

 Ian Rutherford, The Paian: A Survey of the Genre, p. 41.

 

“His [Asclepius’] mother [Coronis], the daughter of Phlegyas with his fine horses, before she could bring him to term with the help of Eleithuia who attends on childbirth, was stricken by the golden arrows of Artemis in her bedroom and descended to the house of Hades, by the skills of Apollo. The anger of the children of Zeus is not in vain. But she made light of Apollo, in the error of her mind, and consented to another marriage without her father’s knowledge, although she had before lain with Phoebus [a byname for the god Apollo] of the unshorn hair, and was bearing within her the pure seed of the god … Such was the strong infatuation that the spirit of lovely-robed Coronis had caught. For she lay in the bed of a stranger who came from Arcadia; but she did not elude the watcher... Knowing even then of her sleeping with Ischys, son of Elatus, and of her lawless deceit, he sent his sister, raging with irresistible force ...” (Pindar [c. 518–438 BCE], Pythian Odes 3:8-34).

 

“But some affirm that Aesculapius was not a son of Arsinoe, daughter of Leucippus, but that he was a son of Coronis, daughter of Phlegyas in Thessaly. And they say that Apollo loved her and at once consorted with her, but that she, against her father’s judgment, preferred and cohabited with Ischys, brother of Caeneus.” (Pseudo-Apollodorus [first-second century CE], The Library, 3:10:3).

 

“When Apollo had made Coronis, daughter of Phlegyas, pregnant, he put a crow in guard, so that no one should violate her. But Ischys, son of Elatus, lay with her, and because of this he was killed by the thunderbolt of Zeus.” (Hyginus [c. 64 BC-17 AD], Fabulae 202).

 

 “When he [Coronis’ father Phlegyas] went to the Peloponnesus, he was accompanied by his daughter, who all along had kept hidden from her father that she was with child by Apollo. In the country of the Epidaurians she bore a son, and exposed him on the mountain called Nipple at the present day, but then named Myrtium. As the child lay exposed he was given milk by one of the goats that pastured about the mountain, and was guarded by the watch-dog of the herd. And when Aresthanas (for this was the herdsman’s name) discovered that the tale of the goats was not full, and that the watch-dog also was absent from the herd, he left, they say, no stone unturned, and on finding the child desired to take him up. As he drew near he saw lightning that flashed from the child, and, thinking that it was something divine, as in fact it was, he turned away. Presently it was reported over every land and sea that Asclepius was discovering everything he wished to heal the sick, and that he was raising dead men to life.” (Pausanias [second century CE], Graeciae Descriptio, Description of Greece, 2:26:3–5).

 

“I begin to sing of Asklepios, son of Apollon and healer of sicknesses. In the Dotian plain fair Koronis, daughter of King Phlegyas, bare him, a great joy to men, a soother of cruel pangs. and so hail to you, lord: in my song I make my prayer to thee!” (Homeric Hymn 16 to Asklepios; quoted in THEOI PROJECT, Asklepios).

 

“The god [Apollon] can not only save life but is also the begetter of Asklepios, man’s saviour and champion against diseases.” (Aelian, On Animals, 10:49; quoted in THEOI PROJECT, Asklepios).

 

“To Asklepios, Fumigation from Manna. Great Asklepios, skilled to heal mankind, all-ruling Paian, and physician kind; whose arts medicinal can alone assuage diseases dire, and stop their dreadful rage. Strong, lenient God, regard my suppliant prayer, bring gentle health, adorned with lovely hair; convey the means of mitigating pain, and raging deadly pestilence restrain. O power all-flourishing, abundant, bright, Apollon’s honoured offspring, God of light; husband of blameless Hygeia (Health), the constant foe of dread disease, the minister of woe: come, blessed saviour, human health defend, and to the mortal life afford a prosperous end.” (Orphic Hymn 67 to Asclepius; quoted in THEOI PROJECT, Asklepios).

Also Aelius Aristides [117–180 CE], Discorsi Sacri, Sacred Discourses,1:2, 4:4.

 

Tryggve N. D. Mettinger, The Riddle of Resurrection, p. 157, 159, 165.

 

Tryggve N. D. Mettinger, The Riddle of Resurrection, p. 160.

 

“Galenus says in his commentary to the apothegms of Hippocrates: ‘It is generally known that Asclepius was raised to the angels in a column of fire, the like of which is also related with regard to Dionysos, Heracles, and others, who laboured for the benefit of mankind. People say that God did thus with them in order to destroy the mortal and earthly part of them by the fire, and afterwards to attract to himself the immortal part of them, and to raise their souls to heaven.’” (al-Biruni, India, p. 168).

 

“‘I’ll restore the pious youth to life, unwounded, and the grisly fates will yield to my art.’ At once he takes some herbs from an ivory box. They worked before on the ghost of Gluacus, when an augur resorted to herbs he’d noticed, and a serpent used the help of a serpent. He daubed his breast three times, thrice spoke healing words. The youth raised his drooping head from the ground.” (Ovid, Fasti, 6:735; quoted in THEOI PROJECT, Asklepios).

 

Carl Schneider, Geistesgeschichte des antiken Christentums, book 1, p. 55; refers to inscriptions from Epidaurus, “Rudolf Herzog, Die Wunderheilungen von Epidauros”.

 

 Luke 8:44, Mark 5:27f, 7:33 Matthew 9:18–20.

 

“A man whose fingers, all but one, were paralyzed. He came to the god looking for help, but when he read the tablets set up in the temple he gave no credence to the healings and made fun of the inscriptions. But as he slept, he had the following dream. It seemed to him that he was playing dice in the temple and was about to make a throw. The god appeared to him, and spring upon his hand and stretched out his fingers. Then he got up and, still in his dream, the man clenched his fist and opened it, stretching out one finger after another. After he had stretched them all out, the god asked him if he still refused to believe what the inscriptions related, and he said ‘No.’ ‘Well then,’ answered the god, ‘since you formerly refused to believe what is not unbelievable, you shall henceforth be known as ‘the Doubter.’ When it was day, he came out cured.” (Epidaurus Tablet 3, trans. F.C. Grant, Hellenistic Religions, 56-57).

 

 “A Dumb Boy He came to the sanctuary seeking to recover his voice. As he was presenting his first offering and performing the usual ceremony, the acolyte who bears the fire (for the sacrifice) to the god turned and said to the father of the boy, ‘Will you promise, if you get your wish, between now and the end of the year to bring the offering you owe as a fee for the healing?’ At once the boy cried to out, ‘I promise!’ The father said it again and was made whole from that moment.” (Epidaurus Tablet 5, trans. F.C. Grant, Hellenistic Religions, 56-57).

 

 “Ambrosia from Athens, who was blind in one eye. She came to the god seeking help, but as she went about the temple she mocked at the many records of cures; ‘It is unbelievable and impossible that the lame and the blind can be made whole by merely dreaming!’ But in her sleep she had a dream. It seemed to her that the god came up and promised to make her whole; only in return she must present a gift offering in the temple- a silver pig, in memory of her stupidity. After saying this he cut open her defective eye and poured some drug. And when it was dry, she went forth cured.” (Epidaurus Tablet 4, trans. F.C. Grant, Hellenistic Religions, 56-57).

Karlheinz Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, p. 69.

 

“Asclepius, that gentle craftsman who drove pain from the limbs that he healed, that hero who cured all types of diseases. … And those who came to him afflicted with congenital sores, or with their limbs wounded by gray bronze or by a far-hurled stone, or with their bodies wasting away from summer’s fire or winter’s cold, he released and delivered all of them from their different pains, tending some of them with gentle incantations, others with soothing potions, or by wrapping remedies all around their limbs, and others he set right with surgery.” (Pindar, Pythian Odes, 3:6-53).

 

“Presently it was reported over every land and sea that Asclepius was discovering everything he wished to heal the sick, and that he was raising dead men to life.” (Pausanias, Graeciae Descriptio, Description of Greece, 2:26:5).

 

Carl Schneider, Geistesgeschichte des antiken Christentums, book 1, p. 56; refers to inscriptions from Epidaurus, “Rudolf Herzog, Die Wunderheilungen von Epidauros”, Epidaurus tablets nr. 21, 25 and 35.

 

 “Stesichorus in his Eriphyle says that he [Asklepios] raised from the dead some of those who fell at Thebes.” (Greek Lyric III Stesichorus, Frag 194; quoted in Greek Mythology: ASKLEPIOS God of Medicine).

 

“Asklepios healed many sick whose lives had been despaired of, and for this reason it was believed that he had brought back to life many who had died.” (Diodorus Siculus [c. 90–21 BCE], Library of History, 4:71:1 [Loeb]).

 

“And having become a surgeon, and carried the art to a great pitch, he not only prevented some from dying, but even raised up the dead”. (Pseudo-Apollodorus, The Library 3:10:3).

 

“Gold shining in his [Asclepius’] hand turned even that man, for a handsome price, to bring back from death a man who was already caught.” (Pindar, Pythian Odes 3:55-56)

 

The five (or possibly six) people are Capaneus, son of Hipponous; Glaucus, son of king Minos of Crete (and perhaps Androgeon, also son of Minos); Hippolytus, son of king Theseus of Athen; Lykourgos, son of Pronax; and finally King Tyndareus of Sparta.

 

“It is said Asklepios was enticed by gold to raise up the dead Hippolytos; others say he raised Tyndareus, others Kapaneus, others Glaukos, the Orphics Hymenaios, while Stesichorus speaks of Kapaneus and Lykourgos.” (Greek Lyric III Stesichorus [seventh or sixth c. BCE], Frag 147; quoted in Greek Mythology: ASKLEPIOS God of Medicine).

 

“Zeus killed Asklepios with his thunderbolt, according to the author of the Naupactica and Telestes in his Asklepios and Kinesias the lyric poet, because he raised Hippolytos from the dead at Artemis’ request; according to Stesikhoros in his Eriphyle, it was because he raised Kapaneos and Lykourgos.” (Greek Lyric V Cinesias, Frag 774, from Philodemus [first c. BCE], On Piety; quoted in Greek Mythology: ASKLEPIOS God of Medicine).

 

“… that when Hippolytos was killed, owing to the curses of Theseus, Asklepios raised him from the dead”. (Pausanias [second c. CE], Graeciae Descriptio, Description of Greece, 2:27:4)

“Aesculapius, son of Apollo, is said to have restored life either to Glaucus, son of Minos, or to Hippolytus, and Jupiter because of this struck him with a thunderbolt.” (Hyginus, Fabulae 49).

“For when Aesculapius was among men, he so fare excelled the rest in the art of medicine that it wasn’t enough for him to have healed men’s diseases unless he could also bring back the dead to life. He is said most recently, according to Eratosthenes to have restored to life Hippolytus who had been killed by the injustice of his stepmother and the ignorance of his father. Some have said that by his skill Glaucus, son of Minos, lived again.” (Hyginus, Astronomica, 2:14).

 

“… the god of Epidaurus [Asklepios] by his Cretan herbs restored the lifeless Androgeon to his father’s [Minos of Krete’s] hearth.” (Propertius, Elegies 2:1; quoted in Greek Mythology: ASKLEPIOS God of Medicine).Mark 5:35ff, Matthew 9:18ff, Luke 8:49ff, 7:11ff, John 11:1ff.

 

Carl Schneider, Geistesgeschichte des antiken Christentums, book 1, p. 56; refers to inscriptions from Epidaurus, “Rudolf Herzog, Die Wunderheilungen von Epidauros”.

 

Lucius Apuleius tells us in Florida 19 (second Century CE) how Asclepius (Actually, he writes Asclepiades and we cannot be certain who he had in mind) rose a man from the dead, a story very similar to the one where Jesus raises Jairus’ daughter (Mark 5:35-43):

 

“The famous Asclepiades, who ranks among the greatest of doctors, indeed, if you except Hippocrates, as the very greatest, was the first to discover the use of wine as a remedy. It requires, however, to be administered at the proper moment, and it was in the discovery of the right moment that he showed especial skill, noting most carefully the slightest symptom of disorder or undue rapidity of the pulse. It chanced that once, when he was returning to town from his country house, he observed an enormous funeral procession in the suburbs of the city. A huge multitude of men who had come out to perform the last honours stood round about the bier, all of them plunged in deep sorrow and wearing worn and ragged apparel. He asked whom they were burying, but no one replied; so he went nearer to satisfy his curiosity and to see who it might be that was dead, or, it may be, in the hope to make some discovery in the interests of his profession. Be this as it may, he certainly snatched the man from the jaws of death as he lay there on the verge of burial. The poor fellow’s limbs were already covered with spices, his mouth filled with sweet-smelling unguent. He had been anointed and was all ready for the pyre. But Asclepiades looked upon him, took careful note of certain signs, handled his body again and again, and perceived that the life was still in him, though scarcely to be detected. Straightway he cried out ‘He lives Throw down your torches, take away your fire, demolish the pyre, take back the funeral feast and spread it on his board at home’. While he spoke, a murmur arose: some said that they must take the doctor’s word, others mocked at the physician’s skill. At last, in spite of the opposition offered even by his relations, perhaps because they had already entered into possession of the dead man’s property, perhaps because they did not yet believe his words, Asclepiades persuaded them to put off the burial for a brief space. Having thus rescued him from the hands of the undertaker, he carried the man home, as it were from the very mouth of hell, and straightway revived the spirit within him, and by means of certain drugs called forth the life that still lay hidden in the secret places of the body ...” (Lucius Apuleius, Florida 19).

 

“Human experience moreover and general custom have made it a practise to confer the deification of renown and gratitude upon distinguished benefactors. This is the origin of Hercules [Herakles], of Castor and Pollux [the Dioskouroi], of Aesculapius [Asklepios] ... And these benefactors were duly deemed divine, as being both supremely good and immortal, because their souls survived and enjoyed eternal life.” (Cicero, De Natura Deorum, 2:24; quoted in THEOI PROJECT, Apotheothenai, deified men & women).

 

 

Asclepius

Asclepius was also a popular resurrected god. Christian apologists want to try and deny this by saying Asclepius merely, like Caesar, “rose to heaven” like a ghost upon his death. But that isn’t what ancient worshipers said. Celsus reported that “a great many Greeks and Barbarians claim they have frequently seen, and still see, no mere phantom, but Asclepius himself” (Origen, Against Celsus 3.24). Asclepius was killed by lightning strike and buried (Hesiod, Fragments 125; Euripides, Alcestis 1-7; Cicero, On the Nature of the Gods 3.22.57; Origen, Against Celsus 3.23). He was then restored from death to become a living god. As Ovid says, “by a god [he was] turned into a bloodless corpse, and then from a corpse became a god, twice renewing [his] fate” (Metamorphoses 2.647-648). That this was regarded a resurrection is fully confirmed by the narrative. Zeus killed Asclepius for resurrecting the dead, but when the slain’s father Apollo complained, Zeus relented and restored Asclepius back to life, this time as an immortal god. Ovid thus remarks that “Zeus did for [his son’s] sake that which he forbade be done” (Fasti 6.761); in other words, Zeus forbade raising the dead, but made an exception for Asclepius. It is thus understood that Zeus rose Asclepius from the dead. He had been a corpse. So he would have remained. But by a miracle of God, now he was alive, eternal and immortal, supernaturally powerful. Just like Jesus.

 

 

Again thanks to Roger Viklund and regretably Carrier for these primary sources and parallels:

 

 http://www.jesusgranskad.se/jesus_parallels.htm 

 

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

 

 

 

 

 

So there you have! it Zeitgeist has not been debunked at all and those making such claimes have not done there homework evidently. But now one has to wonder is there any evidence that Jesus Existed? I don't want to offend anyone nor do I have any intention of making anyone disbelive in Jesus if they dont want to as thats up to you to decide and I have nothing against Theists or Atheists who do belive a real Jesus nor is my intention to disprove Jesus existance either but as far as Im personally concerned Jesus Christ or at least the VERSION of him that we have in the Gospels did not exist let me do a quick run down of all the sources to prove Jesus and why they dont actually prove he ever existed at all

 

Pliny The Younger: Many Scholars including Semler, Aub, Havet, Hochart, Bruno Bauer and Edwin Johnson have had Solid reasons to doubt the Authenticity of this "letter" but even if it were genuine it is worthless either way as it makes no mention of a "Jesus of Nazareth" and Christ is a title not a name that means messiah, anointed one or even false king or pretender to the throne and there are Christ cults that go back as far as 300 BC he also would have gotten his information from Christians thus is not an independent source as Ehrman claims nor is this source an Contemperary Eyewitness account either. Furthermore according to Hadrian and Suetonius the Syncretic cult god Serapis was called Christ and his followers Christians and Pliny worked near by were Serapis was commonly worshipped and thus would most likely have been interrogating Serapis Christians.

 

Suetonious: His source says nothing and is essentially just recording an asshole named Cresto fucking shit up in Rome and Jesus was never in rome so this couldnt be Jesus. There have also been debates about this sources authenticity as well.

 

Tacitus: The Annals Is a Forgery of Tacitus' works reasons being:

 

1. Tacitus himself knows nothing of Christ or Christians in any of his other writings

 

2 Clement of Alexandria who's whole Job was to scour the writings of pagan authors to find anything that would validify Christianity dosen't mention this passage

 

3 Tertullian who was familliar with Tacitus' writings and quotes his works extensively makes no mention of it either

 

4 there is no mention of the Annals even existing until the 15th century hundreds of years after he (Tacitus) died

 

5 Origen in his works admit that very few christians had been persecuted for there faith and that they were easily numbered contradicting Tacitus' supposed claims of a mass martyrdom of Christians

 

6 Nero wasn't even in rome around the time the fire supossedly happened

 

7 there is no evidence outside of the Annals that such a fire or mass persecution ever took place and you'd think if rome had been set ablaze that all historians would have recorded it but not a single one save only for supposedly Tacitus and not even the early church fathers allude towards a fire in relation to the crimes of Nero

 

Lastly All images depicting Nero burning Rome potray him as holding a violin which didn't even exist until the 11th century implying this is yet another fabricated persecution story by the early church.

 

Lucian Of Samosata: Not a historian not an eyewitness and most likely would have just derived his info from Christians of his time and he lived almost a hundred years after Jesus supposed death and thus is too late to be relevant to the question of weather Jesus existed or not.

 

Mars Bar Serapion/Serapis:

 

 

This source isnt in refrence to Jesus but is just a philosophical tale he told to his son while he was in prison with historical inaccuracies concerning socrates and could very well have been written 100-200 years after jesus supposedly died.

 

Thallas and Phlegon: source dealing with that cause Im tired at the moment lol: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html#dennis

 

Celsus: again too late to the party and based his claims off of jewish hearsay

 

Talmud: It's important to note that Yeshua and Maryam were common names around that time and the Jeeezuz put to death here and boiling in shit is in a way entirely different from the gospels and cannot be considered the Gospel Jesus also this passage was not written until 200 AD ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

 

 

Josephus: This passage was investigated by D.M Murdock and Paul Hopper both of whom proved with evidence from his own writings as well as the works of other scholars that it is a complete fabrication not a partial one but even if it were wholly authentic or partly forged it is not an eyewitness acount and would be little more than third hand hearsay and regurgitation of common christian beliefs of the 2nd century around the time Josephus wrote his antiquities of the Jews. Even Ehrman himself rejects this source as laid out in Did Jesus Exist?

 

 

I'm sorry but there really appears to be no credible proof Jesus ever existed in the first place.

 

Common arguements used against the notion he was neer mentioned in the first century are thatJeezus wasnt well known and was an obscure peasent who was not widely known but this is dumb because if he was obscure to the point that no historian cared to record him than how is it possible anyone would have known or cared enough to follow a religion centered around him in the first place?

 

Also why was Jesus noteable if he did not draw in multitudes across the reigion why was he remembered centeries after his death from all the others who shared his name if he did not raise people himself included from the dead. this Idea that he was popluar enough to have gained a cult following that lasted centeries after he died even up until this day and yet wasnt well known enough to have made it into the historical record is laughably contradictory.

 

There is also the claim that all records of his existence were lost however this is no less absurd than the last contradiction "Jerusalem was the center of education recordings of the Jewish people, and the Romans kept many records, and even the gospels mention that scribes followed jesus – and some of those scribes had connections with the high priests. We have records of dozens of other named messiah-like figures, but never once is jesus mentioned." Godless Wolf

 

So there you have it Ive read Ehrmans work and he is bright when it comes to alot of things but rather dumb when it comes to others also the gospels derive there information from each other thus are not independent sources for Jesus existence.

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/bart-ehrman-caught-in-lies-and-libel/

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/bart-ehrman-errs-again-this-time-about-virgin-births/

 

https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/bart-ehrma

 

 

There appears to be an assortmant of parallels between Jesus and a whole host of historical figures lending credence to the idea of Jesus being a Syncretism of many Figures in history:

 

 

Alexander the Great:

 

1. Had a Virgin birth to Olympias after she was struck by Jupiters lightning strike

 

2. Was said to be the Son of God (Zeus/Juptier) and a mortal woman (Olympias) 

 

3. was known as "King of Kings"

 

4.  He died at age 33 or close to that age

 

5 he walked on water "And if I must at least tread a path through the sea, I will get a foothold." (Menandros, fragment 924 K)

 

6. his most well known war he fought in was the battle of "Issus" (Jesus) which happened on 333 BC

 

7. His father was said to be the God Zeus-Ammon the grecian equivalent of Amen Ra and hence Amen metaphoricaly speaking is attached to him

 

8. he wore a lionskin over his head symbolizing the constellation Leo parallel to Jesus Lion of Judah

 

9 He was belived by many of his followeres to acend to the company of the gods and many worshipers reported seeing him after he died.

 

 

Here is a strange vid that Claims Alexander The Christ is both Jesus and yet also Satan? which I derived some of this info from as well as some articles as primary sources

 

 

https://africaunlimited.com/was-jesus-christ-really-alexander-the-great/

 

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/surprising-links-between-alexander-great-and-christianity-005814

 

https://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/alexander-the-great-and-the-crucifixion-of-jesus/

 

http://www.biblenews1.com/astrology/acharts/alexander.html

 

 

Titus Flavius:

 

Although it is true that the Gospels were not written until the mid to late second century AD and though there are many problems with Atwills thesis there is still no denying that Titus shares many parallels with the Gospel Jesus and that many of Josephus's writings were at some point infused into the gospel tale probably by Constantine concidering how he was a Flavian to.

 

 

 

Apollonius of Tyanna (The Apostle Paul)

 

 

Apollonius Of Tyanna (Paul The Apostle) Is yet another figure in history who shares numerous parallels to Jesus and actually was born and lived around the same time Jesus suposedly did. Christian Apologists like Mike Winger For example when faced with this reality resort to 1, 2 or even all 3 of 3 tactics

 

1. They will do whatever they can to water down, downplay or otherwise delibrately misrepresent the paralles between them to make them seem alot less like parallels than they actually are or to otherwise disengenousely make them seem like non parallels.

 

2. They will focus on the differences between the 2 figures as if the differences are even relevant and somehow in of themselves disprove the parallels

 

3. They will claim Apollonius copied Jesus except for the fact that Christianity was a very obscure and largely irrelevant movement by that point in history so its highly unlikley Apollonius would have even heard of Jesus and/or Christianity to even copy from them in the first place making the other way around far more plausible.

 

Not only that but Apollonius not only shares many parallels to Jesus but the Apostle Paul who has no evidence of even existing also oddly enough shares many parallels to Apollonius to

 

Here are some links to where you can see said parallels:

 

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/apollonius/

 

https://enigmose.com/apollonius_jesus.html

 

https://enigmose.com/apollonius_is_paul.html

 

http://www.jesusgranskad.se/jesus_parallels.htm

 

http://nazoreans.com/real_paul.html

 

http://nazoreans.com/apollonius_equated.html

 

 

Apollonius	Jesus	Paul
Born 4 BCE	Born 4 BCE	Born c. 2 CE?
Birth miraculously announced by a supernatural being	Birth miraculously announced by a supernatural being
Was the son of a god and a mortal woman	Was the son of a god and a mortal woman.
Raised in Tarsus		Raised in Tarsus
Religiously precocious as a child	Religiously precocious as a child	Religiously precocious as a child
Asserted to be a native speaker of Aramaic	Asserted to be a native speaker of Aramaic	Claimed to be a speaker of Hebrew
Associated with wise men or magi	Associated with wise men or magi
Had a disciple named Damis from Asia Minor	Had a disciple named Thomas; blessed a robber on the cross named Demas	Had a disciple named Demas from Asia Minor
Had an associate named Titus		Had an associate named Titus
Associated with a Demetrius		Associated with a Demetrius
Associated with a Stephanus		Associated with a Stephanus
Influenced by Plato	Reflected Platonism	Influenced by Philo/Plato
Renounced wealth	Denounced wealth	Embraced poverty
Followed abstinence and asceticism	Followed abstinence and asceticism	Followed abstinence and asceticism
Wore long hair and robes	Wore long hair and robes	Wore long hair and robes
Discussed eunuchs for the kingdom of Babylon	Discussed eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven
Was unmarried and childless	Was unmarried and childless	Was unmarried and childless
Was anointed with oil	Was anointed with oil
Went to Jerusalem	Went to Jerusalem	Went to Jerusalem
Spent much time at Antioch		Spent much time at Antioch
Made missionary journeys around Mediterranean		Made missionary journeys around Mediterranean
Traveled to the East for three years, where he was taught by sages		Traveled to the East for three years, where he was taught by Jesus
Wrote epistles instructing followers in spirituality		Wrote epistles instructing followers in spirituality
Spoke in metaphors	Spoke in parables
Fought wild beasts at Ephesus		Fought “wild beasts” at Ephesus
Saw and predicted the future	Saw and predicted the future
Performed miracles	Performed miracles	Performed miracles
Healed the sick	Healed the sick	Healed the sick
Cast out evil spirits	Drove out demons	Cast out demons
Raised the daughter of a Roman official from the dead	Raised the daughter of a Jewish official from the dead
Famed far and wide	Famed far and wide	Well known in Christian communities around the Mediterranean
Religious reformer	Religious reformer	Religious reformer
Spoke authoritatively to temple priests	Spoke authoritatively to temple priests	Spoke authoritatively to temple priests
Spoke as a “law-giver”	Spoke as a “law-giver”
Founded a religious community at Corinth		Founded a religious community at Corinth
Was on a mission to bring Greek culture to the “barbarians”	Was on a mission to bring Jewish culture to the “nations”
Converted “unrefined” people to himself	Converted “unsaved” people to himself
Believed to be a “savior” from heaven	Believed to be a “savior” from heaven
Worshipped as a god	Worshipped as a god	Mistaken for a god
Accused of being a magician	Accused of being a magician
Had his life threatened	Had his life threatened	Had his life threatened
Brought before a king, whose righteousness he challenged	Brought before a king, whose righteousness he challenged
Was accused of killing a boy	Was accused of killing a boy (Infancy Gospel of Thomas)
Condemned by Roman emperor	Condemned by Roman authorities	Condemned by Roman emperor
Imprisoned at Rome	Imprisoned at Jerusalem	Imprisoned at Jerusalem and Rome
Miraculously escaped prison		Miraculously escaped prison
Was shipwrecked		Was shipwrecked
Descended into the underworld	Descended into the underworld
Was assumed into heaven	Ascended into heaven
Appeared posthumously to a detractor as a brilliant light	Appeared posthumously to a detractor as a brilliant light
Said to be in two places at once	Said to be in many places at once
Had his image revered in temples	Had his image revered in churches

 

 

Julius Caesar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although Christians argue there is more evidence for Caeser than Jesus in actuality there is far more evidence these two figures are one and the same here are just a few of many parallels between these two figures in history:

 

1. As per the writings of Anne Baring, Maurice Arthur Canney, John Mclean and other sources Aphrodite/Venus despite her open promiscuity was a Virgin Mother and according to some sources was the mother of Caesar and thus Julius Caeser was "Born of a Virgin"

 

2. Julius Caesar was Crowned under Jupiter on December 25th Just as Jebus tradition hold December 25th as his celebration.

 

3. Both Julius Caeser and Jesus Christ begin there Campaigns in neighboring teritories to the north Caeser In Gallia and Jesus in Gallilee 

 

4. Both Cross a faithful river Caeser the Rubicon and Jesus the River Jordan

 

5. Once across the rivers both come across a Patron/Rivals who are later beheaded Caesar with Pompey the Great and Jesus with John (Gleason) the Baptist

 

6.. They also meet there first followers Caeser with Antonius and Curio and Jesus with Peter (Griffin) and Andrew

 

7. After crossing the rivers both enter key cities Caeser In Corfinium and Jesus In Capernaum

 

8. Both of them continue to move until arriving at there capitals in short lived triumph Caeser arriveing In Rome on a Horse and Jesus into Jereusalem on a Donkey

 

9. Both of them have special relationships with particular Wahmen Caeser with Queen Cleopatra and Jesus with the Triple Goddess Mary Magdelene 

 

10. Both of them have secret encounters at the night Caeser with Nicomedes of Bythnia and Nicodemus of Bethania

 

11. Both of them have an affinity for the common people and both run afowl of the authories Caeser with the Roman Senate and Jesus with the Jewish Sanheidren

 

12. Both of them have a traitor as well as one who kills himself Caeser with Decemis and Marcus Brutus and and Jesus with Judas Isscariot

 

13. Both of them have an assassin who gets away or is released Caeser with Marcus Brutus and Jesus with Barabbas

 

14. Both of them have someone who washes there hands of there murders and whos names are etymologically the same Caeser with Lepidus and Jesus with Pontius Pilate 

 

15. Both of them are accused of making themselvs kings and there accusations led to there deaths Caesar Salad as King of the Romans and Jaysus Crust as King of the Jews

 

16. Both of them are adorned in royal red robes and wear a crown on there head Caeser a laurel wreath and Jesus a Crown of Thornes

 

 

 

17. Julius Caesar is stabbed in the side of the face by a senator named Gaius Cassius Longinus and Jesus given a faithful pierceing with a lance to the side of the chest by a centurion also named Longinus who's holy day is on celebrated on March 15th

 

18. Both Caeser and Christ die on the Ides of March or March 15th as Jesus died on Nissan 15th according to the New Testament and Nissan correlates to March-April 

 

19. Both of them are Crucified Caeser by Wax dripping after his death and Jesus on the Cross as a means of his death

 

 

 

 

 

20 Caeser and Christos both have special relations with particular Male accuatences Caesar with Octavianus (Augustus Caeser) and Jesus with John the Beloved Diciple

 

21. Both of them are Hearlded by signs from Heaven Caeser in the form of Caesers Comet of 44 BC and Jebus in the form of a Republican Star From The East 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

22. Both of them are deemed Gods Posthumeously after death Caeser as the Divine Julius and Jesus as Christ/KRST 

 

23. A Lamb was Sacrificed to Jupiter the day of Caesers asassination a Lamb of God

 

24. Caeser's Uncle Marius vanished but brought back from Hades lived with his wife Iulia and a woman called Martha who Plutarch states was a fourtune teller 

Jesus raised El Osiris/Lazerus from the dead who lived with his sister Miriam and a woman called Martha who fortells his ressurection 

 

25. Julius Caeser had Palm Trees sprouted to seal his victories just as Jesus has olive branches waved to seal his victory 

 

26. Upon there deaths the Sky went dark in the daytime sky both Plutarch and Virgil recording the anomaly after his death

 

27. Julius Caeser recieved 33 dagger wounds in what may be the first ever recorded autotopsy as stated by Suetonius

 

28. Julius Caeser Died in 44 BCE and Jesus Christ Died in 33 AD (Supposedly)

 

And there are many many more

 

No one knows what happend to the cult of The Divine Julius after Caesers death and no one knows about the origins of Christianity prior to 70 AD and yet both these personages there lives and fates intertwine meticulously within the literary record left behind

 

Special Thanks to Achaya S/ D.M. Murdock, Kenneth Humphries, Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy, Neil Bosewell, Roger Viklund, Joseph Atwill and Francesco Carotta for there work in finding this info! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clayton_Veno]

My apologies for this being so long but I had to make it so cuz there was alot to cover also alot of this was a copy and paste job and alot of things where pasted completely wrong hence why alot of sentences where broken up!  Hopefully the broken ones are still readable for the most part at least.

[Joshpantera]

Welcome Clayton!!!!

 

I do think the Gospels as we have them were written post Josephus and do utilize parts of the stories of some of the 20 odd different Jesus's mentioned in Josephus's historical writings. It's a little bit from this Jesus mentioned, a little bit from that Jesus mentioned. What Murdock used to refer to as an amalgamation of various parts of historical stories combined with popular pagan gods and motifs. Her position is that there's no one core to the onion.

 

And I agree to this day. We don't have any solid historical Nazareth from the time of the early 1st century to pin to the core of the onion to. It looks like a mix up. Jesus being of the Nazarene sect, turned into being from Nazareth as it appears to play out. When Nazareth wasn't really much of anything until the 2nd century. After the fact, people go there and assume that it's where Jesus was from. The core figure of the stories. But that doesn't appear to offer a solid core to the onion at all. Quite the contrary.  

 

I wound up taking an agnostic position about the historicity of Jesus after years and years of participating in the debates. We used to have apologist's like JP Holding and even William Lane Craig show up and post in her forums. Under different names. I've always maintained that the historicity of the gospel Jesus is unknown. And so much of it is blatantly myth, and blatantly ripped off from various historical people mentioned in Josephus and the Talmud. Yeshua Ben Pantera, being one of them. Which is why I chose Joshua Pantera as my screen name here, to highlight. I choose to default to the myth position unless proven otherwise. It's overwhelmingly mythological in my view.

 

In a way, I'm actually just as much an agnostic atheist about the historicity of Jesus as I am about the existence of gods. Because I don't know if an historical Jesus did exist as described, and I don't believe that one fixed Jesus ever did exist as described. There's too many holes in the claim. I don't know, and I don't believe the claim (agnostic-atheist). 

 

Same position with gods. I don't know if any gods exist, and I sure as hell don't believe that any exist without substantial evidence and verification. I think that keeps me in the myth camp pertaining to gods and an historical Jesus. 

[Clayton_Veno]

On 9/16/2020 at 2:38 PM, Clayton_Veno said:

My apologies for this being so long but I had to make it so cuz there was alot to cover also alot of this was a copy and paste job and alot of things where pasted completely wrong hence why alot of sentences where broken up!  Hopefully the broken ones are still readable for the most part at least.

 

[Clayton_Veno]

Also when discussing Mut and her connection to Isis I forgot to show pictures of Isis wearing a vulture crown and in the form of a vulture so here they are:

 

                   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the pictures got fucked up so here they are:

 

 

Missing pic under Dionysus section for the Heathen to swim in for blasphemy against Osiris-Dionysus 

 

 

 

Missing picture from Mithras section: 

 

 

 

Lastly a picture of Ass clipius that I forgot to include in the Asclepius section:

 

 

[Clayton_Veno]

On 9/17/2020 at 11:20 PM, Joshpantera said:

Welcome Clayton!!!!

 

I do think the Gospels as we have them were written post Josephus and do utilize parts of the stories of some of the 20 odd different Jesus's mentioned in Josephus's historical writings. It's a little bit from this Jesus mentioned, a little bit from that Jesus mentioned. What Murdock used to refer to as an amalgamation of various parts of historical stories combined with popular pagan gods and motifs. Her position is that there's no one core to the onion.

 

And I agree to this day. We don't have any solid historical Nazareth from the time of the early 1st century to pin to the core of the onion to. It looks like a mix up. Jesus being of the Nazarene sect, turned into being from Nazareth as it appears to play out. When Nazareth wasn't really much of anything until the 2nd century. After the fact, people go there and assume that it's where Jesus was from. The core figure of the stories. But that doesn't appear to offer a solid core to the onion at all. Quite the contrary.  

 

I wound up taking an agnostic position about the historicity of Jesus after years and years of participating in the debates. We used to have apologist's like JP Holding and even William Lane Craig show up and post in her forums. Under different names. I've always maintained that the historicity of the gospel Jesus is unknown. And so much of it is blatantly myth, and blatantly ripped off from various historical people mentioned in Josephus and the Talmud. Yeshua Ben Pantera, being one of them. Which is why I chose Joshua Pantera as my screen name here, to highlight. I choose to default to the myth position unless proven otherwise. It's overwhelmingly mythological in my view.

 

In a way, I'm actually just as much an agnostic atheist about the historicity of Jesus as I am about the existence of gods. Because I don't know if an historical Jesus did exist as described, and I don't believe that one fixed Jesus ever did exist as described. There's too many holes in the claim. I don't know, and I don't believe the claim (agnostic-atheist). 

 

Same position with gods. I don't know if any gods exist, and I sure as hell don't believe that any exist without substantial evidence and verification. I think that keeps me in the myth camp pertaining to gods and an historical Jesus. 

I agree with you Tat in fact that was kind of the point I was getting at is that there is no one single core to the Jesus tale but rather many infact I had a discussion with Joe Atwill heres how it went: 

 

Hi Joe my name is Clayton I'm a big fan of the Caesar's Messiah thesis but I don't agree with it completely because I think there are some holes in it for starters I don't think that Christianity is 100% Roman in Origin and think it had its origins in many places but I do agree that there definitely Is at least some Flavian influence and that Rome had massive influence in the origins of Judeo-Christian Theology.

 

That being said however there is a criticism that has been made regarding your work from Acharya in which she stated:

 

"Please note that I do not concur with Atwill’s Josephus/Flavian thesis

vis-a-vis the origin of the canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and
John. There remains no clear, scientific evidence for the emergence of
the canonical gospels as we have them until the end of the second
century, when they suddenly burst onto the scene with a slew of
commentary."
- Acharya S/Murdock

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/a-conversation-on-the-caesars-messiah-thesis/

 

https://stellarhousepublishing.com/gospel-dates/

 

 

 she said things more along the line that Christianity was more of a stitching together of numerous sources she also stated that the gospels did not exist until 2nd century A.D. what are your thoughts?

 

Also are you aware of Francesco Carrota and his argumen that Jesus Christ was Julius Caeser? I see many more parallels in Julius Caesers tale with Jesus than Titus although I definetly see Titus in there too. 

 

I have come to the conclusion that Jesus Is a syncretism of Julius Caeser and Titus Flavius as well as a whole range of other figures Like Apollonius of Tyana and Alexander the Great just to name a few as well as mystery cult Gods like Asclepius Hercules Buddha Quetzalcoatl Osiris/Horus Mithras Dionysus etc.

 

I am planning to become an independent Scholar/Resercher and become another addition to the mythicist camp and it would be interesting to have back and forth conversations about these things in regards to mythicism through email or even by google hangout or something thanks!

 

 

Joe Atwill: 

I have no idea what errors in fact or reasoning Acharya claimed I made so I can't respond other than to say she didn't produce any,

 

Good luck with your career in scholarship. It could use a boost.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback! take care!

 

What are your thoughts on this Tat?

 

[Joshpantera]

19 hours ago, Clayton_Veno said:

she said things more along the line that Christianity was more of a stitching together of numerous sources she also stated that the gospels did not exist until 2nd century A.D. what are your thoughts?

 

We have discussed this many times here over the years. This used to not be so well known prior to the last decade. But because of Murdock and others it has finally become a lot better known. What she means is that it's complete speculation to place the canonical gospels prior to the mid to late 2nd century, because they are not in the historical record by mention until that time frame. After Marcion's gospel came out. He brought forward a gospel which is very likely the blue print that would later become the book of Luke, and not copied the other way around. And he apparently discovered Paul's epistles in Antioch. So Paul's epistles hit the historical record along with Marcion's gospel. It's not until later that commentary on the canonical gospels began to enter the historical record. 

 

Supposed time of gospels writers - 2nd century begins - Marcion brings forward Paul's epistles and his own gospel - Commentary on the canonical gospels appears into history. 

 

19 hours ago, Clayton_Veno said:

I have come to the conclusion that Jesus Is a syncretism of Julius Caeser and Titus Flavius as well as a whole range of other figures Like Apollonius of Tyana and Alexander the Great just to name a few as well as mystery cult Gods like Asclepius Hercules Buddha Quetzalcoatl Osiris/Horus Mithras Dionysus etc.

 

The similarities run deep. It's one thing after another, layer after layer. What's more, is that some of the sayings attributed to Jesus were probably John the Baptist sayings. What about the most famous wisdom teachings like, "do unto others?" Copied whole cloth from previous cultures with identical sayings. Those of us who were raised on the claim that christianity was entirely unique and that Jesus somehow brought wisdom to the world that no one ever heard before, is complete bullshit at the very best. 

 

I personally like the way Doherty framed one of his books, "Jesus: Neither God nor Man" 

 

Myth. Legend. Amalgamation. And so on. 

 

19 hours ago, Clayton_Veno said:

I am planning to become an independent Scholar/Resercher and become another addition to the mythicist camp and it would be interesting to have back and forth conversations about these things in regards to mythicism through email or even by google hangout or something thanks!

 

I think that a lot of people going into theology need to study the history of mythicism and the contemporary mythicists. Granted, an agnostic stance on historicity seems to be the most wise. I personally will go further and take an atheistic stance on the historicity of Jesus, because why not? If I'm mistaken, then some one can kindly prove it. Until then, I stand as an 'unbeliever' in the historicity of the gospel Jesus. And I think in generations to come more and more youths will grow up familiar with the debate and the problems associated with taking the historicity of Jesus as face value. Which should then continue to influence theology majors going forward. 

[Robert_Tulip]

Clayton

 

50,000 words is far too long for me to read.  However, having skimmed your essay, I endorse your general direction.  The Christian apologist claims that “Zeitgeist has been debunked” are fallacious.  They tend to find some points of detail that can be questioned and use that to cast doubt on the overall argument, using the strategy of argument by deflection.  Often there is an underlying emotional attitude at play, such as the contempt for Pharaoh that many Christians acquire in Sunday School, let alone the repugnance that Christians have toward claims that Jesus was invented, which they regard as the ‘AntiChrist heresy’.

 

Against such entrenched psychological attitudes, I do not think an accumulation of detail is the best way to convince people.  Rather, it is important to ask what the big themes are, and try to focus on these.  For example, I have not seen much analysis of religion in terms of memetics, but I think this is the core of the argument that Christianity evolved from earlier religions.  Memetics is the study of cultural evolution, based on the premise that a cultural meme evolves in a way that is analogous to how genes evolve in biology.  The extensive range of similarities between Jesus Christ and precursor Gods like Horus lends itself well to such analysis, seeing Christianity as an evolutionary adaptation of earlier myths to suit the new connected political context of the Roman Empire.

 

Two points of detail on which I disagree with Murdock are her claim in Zeitgeist that Horus had twelve disciples, and her description of Christianity as a “rehash”.  The evidence she presents in Christ in Egypt for the twelve disciples claim is weak, in my opinion, whereas the evidence is strong for other points of comparison, such as the battle with Satan/Set in the wilderness and the parallel between Jesus/Lazarus/Mary/Martha and Horus/Osiris/Isis/Nephthys.  Calling Christianity a warmed over version of previous original ideas is highly derogatory, and illustrates an emotional stance rather than a focus on evidence.  Of course such a stance may be understandable, but it produces an arrogant tone that harms the reception of the underlying ideas.

 

I thought it was a shame that the Zeitgeist movie presented a rather sloppy exaggeration of the available evidence on religious evolution, although the underlying intent was good.  I did not like the other parts of Zeitgeist, on the alleged 911 conspiracy and the nature of money, and felt that Acharya diminished her reputation by associating with such ideas.

 

I have not read any books advancing the Roman invention hypothesis because I reject it out of hand as absurd.  It completely fails to engage with the ethical framework presented in the Gospels.

 

Robert

[Joshpantera]

16 hours ago, Robert_Tulip said:

Two points of detail on which I disagree with Murdock are her claim in Zeitgeist that Horus had twelve disciples, and her description of Christianity as a “rehash”.  The evidence she presents in Christ in Egypt for the twelve disciples claim is weak, in my opinion, whereas the evidence is strong for other points of comparison, such as the battle with Satan/Set in the wilderness and the parallel between Jesus/Lazarus/Mary/Martha and Horus/Osiris/Isis/Nephthys.  Calling Christianity a warmed over version of previous original ideas is highly derogatory, and illustrates an emotional stance rather than a focus on evidence.  Of course such a stance may be understandable, but it produces an arrogant tone that harms the reception of the underlying ideas.

 

Now this one I have had considerable time going over in the past: https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/on-horus-and-the-twelve-motif/

 

 

What's wrong with it is that she carried along a claim made by Gerald Massey and other 19th century mythicists. Horus is certainly depicted in a way that describes the 12 hours of night and day. With 12 characters making the depiction. And I understand why Massey and others saw this as parallel to the 12 disciples. They just went too far saying that Horus had 12 disciples and framing the claim that way.

 

There was no dramatic story of Horus running around the country side like Jesus with 12 disciples, named as such. It should have been explained for what it is. It's not identical to the canonical gospel presentation, but reading the article and seeing what it does represent, one can see how the gospel writers could easily draw from these previous myths to create their own version which encompasses pretty much a similar meaning. 

 

We know that the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 stones on the breastplate of the high priest represented the months of the year and signs of the zodiac, per Philo and Josephus historically documented it. These existed prior to the creation of christianity. And they parallel the very same astrotheological concepts found in pagan cultures in the near east as well.

 

That these concepts were "rehashed" through christianity, in terms of taking already existing mythological motifs and applying them to a newly forming religion, seems on pretty solid ground to me. Whether or not it may come off as derogatory to christians when pointing out these facts. I don't suppose that any christian will be receptive to any of these facts regardless of how they're presented, unless the christian in question has reached a place of mind where they are simply open to exploring and considering these facts. I'm not sure what a careful and cautious presentation of these facts would even look like, to be honest. 

 

 

[Clayton_Veno]

 

 

18 hours ago, Robert_Tulip said:

Clayton

 

50,000 words is far too long for me to read.  However, having skimmed your essay, I endorse your general direction.  The Christian apologist claims that “Zeitgeist has been debunked” are fallacious.  They tend to find some points of detail that can be questioned and use that to cast doubt on the overall argument, using the strategy of argument by deflection.  Often there is an underlying emotional attitude at play, such as the contempt for Pharaoh that many Christians acquire in Sunday School, let alone the repugnance that Christians have toward claims that Jesus was invented, which they regard as the ‘AntiChrist heresy’.

 

Against such entrenched psychological attitudes, I do not think an accumulation of detail is the best way to convince people.  Rather, it is important to ask what the big themes are, and try to focus on these.  For example, I have not seen much analysis of religion in terms of memetics, but I think this is the core of the argument that Christianity evolved from earlier religions.  Memetics is the study of cultural evolution, based on the premise that a cultural meme evolves in a way that is analogous to how genes evolve in biology.  The extensive range of similarities between Jesus Christ and precursor Gods like Horus lends itself well to such analysis, seeing Christianity as an evolutionary adaptation of earlier myths to suit the new connected political context of the Roman Empire.

 

Two points of detail on which I disagree with Murdock are her claim in Zeitgeist that Horus had twelve disciples, and her description of Christianity as a “rehash”.  The evidence she presents in Christ in Egypt for the twelve disciples claim is weak, in my opinion, whereas the evidence is strong for other points of comparison, such as the battle with Satan/Set in the wilderness and the parallel between Jesus/Lazarus/Mary/Martha and Horus/Osiris/Isis/Nephthys.  Calling Christianity a warmed over version of previous original ideas is highly derogatory, and illustrates an emotional stance rather than a focus on evidence.  Of course such a stance may be understandable, but it produces an arrogant tone that harms the reception of the underlying ideas.

 

I thought it was a shame that the Zeitgeist movie presented a rather sloppy exaggeration of the available evidence on religious evolution, although the underlying intent was good.  I did not like the other parts of Zeitgeist, on the alleged 911 conspiracy and the nature of money, and felt that Acharya diminished her reputation by associating with such ideas.

 

I have not read any books advancing the Roman invention hypothesis because I reject it out of hand as absurd.  It completely fails to engage with the ethical framework presented in the Gospels.

 

Robert

 

Hi Mr.Tulip I want to start by saying I agree with most of what you said but I need to comment on some things:

 

1. I agree with you 100% about the 12 Disciples Parallel while I can see where Murdock and Massey were going with what they were saying and while I do see the 24 Hours in groups of 12 as parallel to the 12 Disciples I can see why others would find it to be a stretch and definiely agree this is far from being as strong a parallel between Horus and Jesus than alot of the other parallels she presents in Christ In Egypt: The Horus Jesus Connection.

 

2. I do agree that presenting this info as Christianity/Christians Plagerizing from older theologies is not the best way to bring this info to light and I think saying that our intent is not to disprove Christianity and/or Jesus but simply to show Zeitgeist was correct about the parallels and that many aspects of Christianity were indeed present within the Pagan world long before.

 

And that weather Jesus existed or not ZG was also correct about there being no credible proof for his existance in as tame a way as possible are better ways to go about it my Best freind Michael who helped me out with the above article is a devout Catholic while I am a Deist/Pantheist/Panentheist but he was very well receptive of the Parallels between Horus and the others with Jesus and explained Christianity was an amalgam of what came before and that it made perfect sense he was mad at the sugestion that Jesus never existed but other than that was enjoyed and accepted what the film had to offer in terms of parallels and Astrotheology.

 

However it also needs to be kept in mind that Christian Fundamentilists and most Evangelicals will never accept this info no matter what evidence is brougt to there attention because they are so obsessed with there theology that they will reject dismiss or outright deny the info no matter what and there really is no tame way of bringing this info to the table but more moderate and secular Christians I've talked with are far more open to these concepts and Ideas and perhaps they would be better targets.

 

I actually went to a Catholic website claiming the Horus-Jesus Parallels were false, corrected them about it and they were receptive and thanked me for sharing my thoughts.

https://dowym.com/voices/is-jesus-based-on-horus/

 

 

3. About 9/11 Im going to have to disagree with you as there is ample proof to suggest the event was indeed an inside Job and that this event had been pre planned and in the making for a very long time but that's not what we are discussing in this topic I will do so in another topic and while it is true that associating herself with Peter Joseph may have somewhat damaged her reputation it is relavant to the films overall message as the Ruling classes have been using Religions as one of many factors to manipulate and control the masses even today! 

 

 

4. Lastly I don't agree with the Idea of dismissing the Roman thesis out of hand as while I do agree with the notion that Christianity Primarly originated with Pagan and  Gnostic Solar/Stellar worship to me it still doesn't change the fact that Rome had massive influence in developing the final stages of what we today call Christianity

And these Roman influences are there now weather they were added in Early Christian times and/or Post Christian times is unknown but as far as Im concerned Titus and

Julius Caeser are definately in there.

 

Weather there influence was added much later sometime Post Christianity or there from the start of lvl 1 of Christianity would be something interesting to discuss I dont agree with everything Atwill and Carotta have to say but I think they offer interesting pieces of the puzzle concerning Christianity and its origins and I think Syncretism is the name of the game.

 

Lastly I also dont blame you for not reading the whole intro it was primarly meant to be an intro to my Mythicist Position as well as a long refutation/rebuttle to Richard Carrier, Mike Winger, Religion for Breakfast, Frank Turek, John Gleason/Godless Engineer, Seth Andrews, the Person accusing us of plagerizing David Fingrut who I covered in the Mithra section, The Person who wrote the Thayer Article who I also adressed in the Mithra section and other critics of the film as well as to serve an intro to those interested in beginning to study this info. 

[Clayton_Veno]

20 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

We have discussed this many times here over the years. This used to not be so well known prior to the last decade. But because of Murdock and others it has finally become a lot better known. What she means is that it's complete speculation to place the canonical gospels prior to the mid to late 2nd century, because they are not in the historical record by mention until that time frame. After Marcion's gospel came out. He brought forward a gospel which is very likely the blue print that would later become the book of Luke, and not copied the other way around. And he apparently discovered Paul's epistles in Antioch. So Paul's epistles hit the historical record along with Marcion's gospel. It's not until later that commentary on the canonical gospels began to enter the historical record. 

 

Supposed time of gospels writers - 2nd century begins - Marcion brings forward Paul's epistles and his own gospel - Commentary on the canonical gospels appears into history. 

 

 

The similarities run deep. It's one thing after another, layer after layer. What's more, is that some of the sayings attributed to Jesus were probably John the Baptist sayings. Who about the most famous wisdom teachings like, "do unto others?" Copied whole cloth from previous cultures with identical sayings. Those of us who were raised on the claim that christianity was entirely unique and that Jesus somehow brought wisdom to the world that no one every heard before, is complete bullshit at the very best. 

 

I personally like the way Doherty framed one of his books, "Jesus: Neither God nor Man" 

 

Myth. Legend. Amalgamation. And so on. 

 

 

I think that a lot of people going into theology need to study the history of mythicism and the contemporary mythicists. Granted, an agnostic stance on historicity seems to be the most wise. I personally will go further and take an atheistic stance on the historicity of Jesus, because why not? If I'm mistaken, then some one can kindly

3 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Now this one I have had considerable time going over in the past: https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/on-horus-and-the-twelve-motif/

 

 

What's wrong with it is that she carried along a claim made by Gerald Massey and other 19th century mythicists. Horus is certainly depicted in a way that describes the 12 hours of night and day. With 12 characters making the depiction. And I understand why Massey and others saw this as parallel to the 12 disciples. They just went too far saying that Horus had 12 disciples and framing the claim that way.

 

There was no dramatic story of Horus running around the country side like Jesus with 12 disciples, named as such. It should have been explained for what it is. It's not identical to the canonical gospel presentation, but reading the article and seeing what it does represent, one can see how the gospel writers could easily draw from these previous myths to create their own version which encompasses pretty much a similar meaning. 

 

We know that the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 stones on the breastplate of the high priest represented the months of the year and signs of the zodiac, per Philo and Josephus historically documented it. These existed prior to the creation of christianity. And they parallel the very same astrotheological concepts found in pagan cultures in the near east as well.

 

That these concepts were "rehashed" through christianity, in terms of taking already existing mythological motifs and applying them to a newly forming religion, seems on pretty solid ground to me. Whether or not it may come off as derogatory to christians when pointing out these facts. I don't suppose that any christian will be receptive to any of these facts regardless of how they're presented, unless the christian in question has reached a place of mind where they are simply open to exploring and considering these facts. I'm not sure what a careful and cautious presentation of these facts would even look like, to be honest. 

 

 

prove it. Until then, I stand as an unbeliever in the historicity of the gospel Jesus. And I think in generations to come more and more youths will grow up familiar with the debate and the problems associated with taking the historicity of Jesus as face value. Which should then continue to influence theology majors going forward. 

 

I agree 100% Tat although some Christians such as my close freind Michael is receptive of these parallels interms of Paganism and Astrotheology and is himself a Devout Catholic. and thanks for the info too.

[Clayton_Veno]

20 hours ago, Robert_Tulip said:

Clayton

 

50,000 words is far too long for me to read.  However, having skimmed your essay, I endorse your general direction.  The Christian apologist claims that “Zeitgeist has been debunked” are fallacious.  They tend to find some points of detail that can be questioned and use that to cast doubt on the overall argument, using the strategy of argument by deflection.  Often there is an underlying emotional attitude at play, such as the contempt for Pharaoh that many Christians acquire in Sunday School, let alone the repugnance that Christians have toward claims that Jesus was invented, which they regard as the ‘AntiChrist heresy’.

 

Against such entrenched psychological attitudes, I do not think an accumulation of detail is the best way to convince people.  Rather, it is important to ask what the big themes are, and try to focus on these.  For example, I have not seen much analysis of religion in terms of memetics, but I think this is the core of the argument that Christianity evolved from earlier religions.  Memetics is the study of cultural evolution, based on the premise that a cultural meme evolves in a way that is analogous to how genes evolve in biology.  The extensive range of similarities between Jesus Christ and precursor Gods like Horus lends itself well to such analysis, seeing Christianity as an evolutionary adaptation of earlier myths to suit the new connected political context of the Roman Empire.

 

Two points of detail on which I disagree with Murdock are her claim in Zeitgeist that Horus had twelve disciples, and her description of Christianity as a “rehash”.  The evidence she presents in Christ in Egypt for the twelve disciples claim is weak, in my opinion, whereas the evidence is strong for other points of comparison, such as the battle with Satan/Set in the wilderness and the parallel between Jesus/Lazarus/Mary/Martha and Horus/Osiris/Isis/Nephthys.  Calling Christianity a warmed over version of previous original ideas is highly derogatory, and illustrates an emotional stance rather than a focus on evidence.  Of course such a stance may be understandable, but it produces an arrogant tone that harms the reception of the underlying ideas.

 

I thought it was a shame that the Zeitgeist movie presented a rather sloppy exaggeration of the available evidence on religious evolution, although the underlying intent was good.  I did not like the other parts of Zeitgeist, on the alleged 911 conspiracy and the nature of money, and felt that Acharya diminished her reputation by associating with such ideas.

 

I have not read any books advancing the Roman invention hypothesis because I reject it out of hand as absurd.  It completely fails to engage with the ethical framework presented in the Gospels.

 

Robert

 

3 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Now this one I have had considerable time going over in the past: https://mythodoxy.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/on-horus-and-the-twelve-motif/

 

 

What's wrong with it is that she carried along a claim made by Gerald Massey and other 19th century mythicists. Horus is certainly depicted in a way that describes the 12 hours of night and day. With 12 characters making the depiction. And I understand why Massey and others saw this as parallel to the 12 disciples. They just went too far saying that Horus had 12 disciples and framing the claim that way.

 

There was no dramatic story of Horus running around the country side like Jesus with 12 disciples, named as such. It should have been explained for what it is. It's not identical to the canonical gospel presentation, but reading the article and seeing what it does represent, one can see how the gospel writers could easily draw from these previous myths to create their own version which encompasses pretty much a similar meaning. 

 

We know that the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 stones on the breastplate of the high priest represented the months of the year and signs of the zodiac, per Philo and Josephus historically documented it. These existed prior to the creation of christianity. And they parallel the very same astrotheological concepts found in pagan cultures in the near east as well.

 

That these concepts were "rehashed" through christianity, in terms of taking already existing mythological motifs and applying them to a newly forming religion, seems on pretty solid ground to me. Whether or not it may come off as derogatory to christians when pointing out these facts. I don't suppose that any christian will be receptive to any of these facts regardless of how they're presented, unless the christian in question has reached a place of mind where they are simply open to exploring and considering these facts. I'm not sure what a careful and cautious presentation of these facts would even look like, to be honest. 

 

 

 

I also want to know what you two think of the fact that Jamie a Freemason who assists my mom has noted that the Orpheus Bakkikos Gem was a Masonic Sheild and says he has seen many like it?

 

Also as far as i'm concerned James "The Brother of The Lord" is a made up character in the NT and nothing more but what do we know about this figure? what about the Ossuary and James Passage and the letter supossedly sent from Paul (Apollonius) to ST Peter and James the Just that Ehrman often cites? I havent read all of D.M. Murdocks work yet so just curious.

 

 

Lastly what about this parallel? 

 

Heru… later called Horus is Hercules.

Heru was said to be born by an immaculate conception, so was Hercules!

Auset said she Ausar got her pregnant after his death… which is impossible.

Zeus said he is the Father of Hercules, however, Hera birthed Hercules through immaculate conception… Hercules means Glory to Hera!

When Heru passes he turns into the female Neteru Het Heru (Hathor)

When Hercules passes he turns into a Goddess and becomes a Princess under Hera!

 

I have the Sources for Horus' Virgin Birth but Last I recall Hera wasn't the Mother of Hercules through Immaculate Conception and Horus turning Into Hathor and Hercules into a goddess? Not quite sure I heard of those?

 

 

I know Hercules was born of Immaculate Conception to Alkmene but not to Hera unless I'm mistaken?

 

 

 

Any Idea which pages of which book/books I could find them? I own most of her books but so far can't seem to find them

 

 

Finally I have plans to debate with Inspiring Philosophy and other Christian Apologists about these parallels especially in response to IP's Jesus Vs series and wonder what advice I should have to streangten my arguments during the debates?

[Joshpantera]

Apologist's don't usually concede points in debates. No matter how far against the ropes you have them on any given point. I was getting very burnt out arguing with apologist's about the christ myth theory. The goals posts always seem to move further back every time you score a point by answering whatever their challenge happens to be. You mention Isis. Youtube's GodAlmighty did a long video citing primary source evidence (mainly graphic images) of the conception(s) of Horus. His youtube channel was flagged so hard that eventually it went down. I haven't checked to see if it ever went back up again. But he was slaying apologists video after video and they went on a censorship campaign to try and shut him down. 

 

Anyways, it may seem glorious at times, but fighting with apologist's is really a dead end game. I haven't found any meaningful usage from engaging them aside from just slugging someone as hard as you can (figuratively) so witnesses can witness them getting slugged. And then witnesses have a sporting chance at figuring out for themselves who they think came out of the slug fest better or on top. It's a bloody mess to get involved in. Every now and then witnesses may have an eye opening experience from watching the back and fourth. But it can be mentally and emotionally draining to engage these debates. Like when I went 40 + pages with Stahrwe at booktalk.org I wondered how long a guy could possibly try and squirm his way out of Genesis 1's repeated contradictions. It went over 40 pages and then spun off into about two more threads after the big one was locked down. 

 

Apologists, basically, are sick in the head. They are in an extreme sense of denial which is not likely broken through very easily, if at all. You just have to go into this thing knowing what it is you're up against. Fist palms over and over again. Willful ignorance. Intellectual dishonest out to infinite scale. Very likely covert and overt, male and female narcissism, depending on who you're talking to. All very egocentric driven.

 

This is quite a polemic I have going on here, I'm aware of that. But what I'm describing is all very common and to be expected. I had stopped debating with apologist's for a long time. And then over the last couple of years I tried some casual debate with a few here at ex-C. Same results. Same personalities. The polemic is not far fetched at all. By the end of it they were about foaming at the mouth mad with resentment and coming out of character cursing at us, spewing misogynistic oriented insults at everyone, and basically showing readers their true colors when pinned far enough back into a corner. Tricky little devils, the whole lot. If you ask me......

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:26 PM, Clayton_Veno said:

 

Finally I have plans to debate with Inspiring Philosophy and other Christian Apologists about these parallels especially in response to IP's Jesus Vs series and wonder what advice I should have to streangten my arguments during the debates?

 

Like Josh, I have never known an true apologist to give an inch.  I remember a line from Star Trek years ago.  With them, "resistance is fu-tile".  Only those who are open to questioning their faith will listen to what you have to say.  I now determine that early in any religious dialog.

[Robert_Tulip]

18 hours ago, Weezer said:

I have never known a true apologist to give an inch. 

"In politics... never retreat, never retract... never admit a mistake."

Napoleon Bonaparte

[omgherryan]

Appears to be like nobody on this gathering knows how life started. ... Have you seen "What the Bible Got Wrong," "What Genesis Got Wrong," Why Do People Laugh at Creationists" or any of different narratives on advancement ... Is it accurate to say that you are certain about that? ... Also, before you go on a tirade about that, watch "Zeitgeist" here on TDF.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, omgherryan said:

Appears to be like nobody on this gathering knows how life started. ... Have you seen "What the Bible Got Wrong," "What Genesis Got Wrong," Why Do People Laugh at Creationists" or any of different narratives on advancement ... Is it accurate to say that you are certain about that? ... Also, before you go on a tirade about that, watch "Zeitgeist" here on TDF.

Is there a point you'd like to make, or are you just one of those clowns who posts comments just to hear themselves talk (figuratively speaking)?

[midniterider]

4 hours ago, omgherryan said:

Appears to be like nobody on this gathering knows how life started. ... Have you seen "What the Bible Got Wrong," "What Genesis Got Wrong," Why Do People Laugh at Creationists" or any of different narratives on advancement ... Is it accurate to say that you are certain about that? ... Also, before you go on a tirade about that, watch "Zeitgeist" here on TDF.

 

Does certainty guarantee one is right?

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Is there a point you'd like to make, or are you just one of those clowns who posts comments just to hear themselves talk (figuratively speaking)?

 

'Watch this video" type of apologist.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Hit and run...