Money

[Guest Emerson]

Okay I don't know if I love it, but I sure like it a lot! Ever since I deconverted, I don't feel bad about wanting to have money to do what I want. Let's face it, money makes life a hell of a lot easier. When I was a christian, some christian once told me that they wanted to have enough money to barely survive on! They didn't want anymore than that because they didn't want money to change them or something. I guess they were afraid of money changing them.

 

Now I've been struggling with poverty for most of my life, I'm a college student and I'm doing what I can to make my way through college. Loans, jobs, scholarships, grants, credit cards, etc. I actually still can't believe someone once told me that but people can surprise you, that's for sure!

 

I don't want to feel bad for liking money and I don't. I think its different when people's desires cross over to greed and they'll do anything to get money, including hurting others in the process like those Enron dudes. I'm not talking about greed. I'm talking about making life easier for yourself, about not feeling bad for trying to improve your situation in life after all we all have to survive!!! Its nice having money even though I'm just in college, I love getting that paycheck even though its not very much! But its something, right?!

 

I really hate it how those tv preaches like Joyce Meyers tell you to tithe 10% but you never get anything back! Even with the bible when it says to test God, I never got anything back. People like Joyce Meyers make me angry, they sit there and preach and then they just ask to contribute to their program. She basically preaches and begs (nicely) for a living, and she is so rich off that!!

 

I like money, its nice, I like nice things! Money, money, money!!!!! Wheee!

 

Money is good! I LOVE IT! okay ya'll i'm just tired and I don't feel bad for wanting to have it and for liking it, and for going to the jobs and interviews to get better pay. that's all.

[LosingMyReligion]

Okay I don't know if I love it, but I sure like it a lot! Ever since I deconverted, I don't feel bad about wanting to have money to do what I want. Let's face it, money makes life a hell of a lot easier. When I was a christian, some christian once told me that they wanted to have enough money to barely survive on! They didn't want anymore than that because they didn't want money to change them or something. I guess they were afraid of money changing them.

 

Now I've been struggling with poverty for most of my life, I'm a college student and I'm doing what I can to make my way through college. Loans, jobs, scholarships, grants, credit cards, etc. I actually still can't believe someone once told me that but people can surprise you, that's for sure!

 

I don't want to feel bad for liking money and I don't. I think its different when people's desires cross over to greed and they'll do anything to get money, including hurting others in the process like those Enron dudes. I'm not talking about greed. I'm talking about making life easier for yourself, about not feeling bad for trying to improve your situation in life after all we all have to survive!!! Its nice having money even though I'm just in college, I love getting that paycheck even though its not very much! But its something, right?!

 

I really hate it how those tv preaches like Joyce Meyers tell you to tithe 10% but you never get anything back! Even with the bible when it says to test God, I never got anything back. People like Joyce Meyers make me angry, they sit there and preach and then they just ask to contribute to their program. She basically preaches and begs (nicely) for a living, and she is so rich off that!!

 

I like money, its nice, I like nice things! Money, money, money!!!!! Wheee!

 

Money is good! I LOVE IT! okay ya'll i'm just tired and I don't feel bad for wanting to have it and for liking it, and for going to the jobs and interviews to get better pay. that's all.

 

 

Touche'!

 

I will NEVER tithe again. I've said this before but the moment I stopped tithing and opened a savings account I earned enough money to purchase all of my school books...Thus leaving me money left over with my financial aid refund checks(which helped me to make a down payment on my first car).

 

I think most churches are just all about MONEY. And they feed you the lie that if you want to have anything in life then you are putting yourself before god and that is bad.

Several generations of my family have lived like that. My mom constantly says, "I don't want alot of money...Just enough for me to survive."

 

Well I feel differently, "I would like to have enough to sit and be comfortable sometime." I get tired of not knowing if I'll have enough to pay certain bills and etc...Being broke sucks, and there is no amount of praising god that will make you happy about being broke.

 

I used to give my money dutifully when I was a Christian, and I NEVER got anything back in return....Except the privilege of seeing our crooked pastor drive to church in his new Lexus on MY dime...

I'm broke and working at a movie theatre at the time(18-years-old) while he quits his job to be a full-time pastor?

The church is so full of crooks. It is sad that people cannot understand that it is a lucrative business. Look at: TD Jakes, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Ed Young, and John Hagee. They are the new rock and roll stars of the 21st century. They are playing their followers like a Grand Piano.

 

It makes me mad just thinking about it.

However, when I do think about the money I have saved not going to church I don't feel quite as pissed.

 

I don't worship money but I do happen to like it a whole lot.

[Ex-COG]

When I left the church and stopped tithing, I finally was able to start a 401k. I also saw my savings account grow. I now have the ability to pay off my debts, and help out family members who are struggling. With prices rising because of the cost of gas, that extra money is coming in handy. I agree with you, Emerson, I like money! It's not greed; I like to give to some good charities (make sure to claim it on your taxes) but not 10% of my gross--at least until I make a million bucks a year, then I'll think about it. Like LosingMyReligion, I do sometimes get mad when I think about the money I wasted on the church. Oh well, live and learn. I hope there's is something like karma at work, 'cause those preachers are gonna get some bad mojo dropping on their heads for flock fleecing. AND...I might get some good vibes coming my way, because I truly did give with an open heart. Ah, sweet revenge!

[LosingMyReligion]

I remember one year I was having a hard time finding a summer job. At the time I wasn't going to church...

 

So my mom said, "The reason you aren't being blessed is because you don't pay tithes..."

 

I'm thinking, "How in the hell can I tithe when I don't have a job???"

[Guest Emerson]

I get so mad sometimes when I think about all the christian media that I spend my hard earned money for. When I think about it, I probably spent hundreds each year. Christian media sucks compared to what's out there for us normal people. I've recently seen them trying to improve but it always feels like they try to preach one way or another.

 

Now they have those "mtv" covers on books and those christian biblezines, etc. I just think that they use the name "Jesus Christ" as much as possible to make that product sell. Now I disagree with that music, I am something! I can't stand those songs where they say "I need you" and a lot of it sounds like it could be applied to anything, like boyfriends.

 

Why did I spend so much of my own money on this shitty stuff? I love the motto of losingmyreligion.com - "Stay home sundays save 10%"

 

and I hated left behind, talk about shitty movies! Its all about preaching and not making a profit, which is why they mostly fail at movies. The only reason passion of the christ succeeded is because it had a 25 mil budget paid by mel gibson's own money, and it had a real cast and the whole hollywood shebang going for it, as well as it marketted to christians and churches.

 

But anyway most don't think of profit when making those movies, because like I said before money is seen as a "bad" thing. okay I'm blabbing now! I'll shut up.

 

Yeah I don't get the logic in that either! It cracks me up at some of the things christians say and believe.

 

I remember one year I was having a hard time finding a summer job. At the time I wasn't going to church...

 

So my mom said, "The reason you aren't being blessed is because you don't pay tithes..."

 

I'm thinking, "How in the hell can I tithe when I don't have a job???"

[Mike D]

I like money, its nice, I like nice things! Money, money, money!!!!! Wheee!

I'm with you I love money too. No sense in denying it. And I am not content to have "just enough to pay my bills", or even "just enough to live comfortably". Pffft... that's for the birds. I want enough to live large. When people walk in my house I don't want them to be impressed, I want them to be awed. And some day I hope to be there, I can't help it, I like nice things

 

For me personally having experienced living on both sides of the tracks, I can say absolutely money makes a major difference in life. And I am not even talking about being filthy rich (although i'll take it if offered, lol) but having enough so you don't have to worry about daily life. I mean it's really nice to be able to go to the store and pass up the ramen noodles and instead throw eveything in the cart you want without even bothering the look at the price of anything. Or gas prices? Yawn, who cares. Or get a suprise $400 electric bill in the summer? Big deal, it gets paid without batting an eye. I guess what I am saying is that not having the stress of always worrying about budgeting or having to cut back on this or that because the price of one thing or the other has gone up makes a *huge* difference in life.

 

Anyway having said all that I don't love money enough to screw people over to get it or do anything illegal. In fact if I had enough of it I would give some to people to help them, I definitely believe in sharing the wealth.

 

I also was never impressed with people who would say they only wanted enough money to survive on because it might change them. Please. If you're that worried a little bit of money is going to turn you into a bad person, then what type of person are you to start with?

[godlessgrrl]

Money is a tool, where the more you have of it, the more you can do in life.

 

Fuck this poverty-level shit. I'm so not into that either. Poverty stinks. Having to choose between paying the power bill and buying groceries? That sucks. (Jeez, and that kind of decision hits more and more people every year, poverty or not.)

 

I want enough $$$ to be able to do the things I want to do in life. Buy a nice house, pay off my car, travel a lot, not live off cat food when I'm in my older years.

 

If the church wants their damn 10%, they should invest in conservative growth stocks. That'll do it.

[DucorpsToo]

I pretty much agree with much that has been said here. I'm quite sure that there may be some souls out there that don't mind "subsistence living" and consciously choose this sort of lifestyle. I ain't one of them! I don't want to merely survive...I wish to live; and that does require money.

 

One of my colleagues at work is Mormon and I remember many years ago of him telling me that he was tithing...even though it had put somewhat of a crunch upon his own finances. (At that time he and his wife were saving towards a downpayment for a home..and his wife was making very little money). I remember having told him that there comes a point where he's got to jettison that tithing and instead look out for "number one"; as it is highly unlikely that those other folks within his church would be footing his household bills!

[SunNSand4me]

Life is much easier with an abundance of money, that's for sure. Why shouldn't everyone's goal be to earn as much as they can in the profession they choose, enjoy what it affords and give away what they don't need or want?

 

I do honestly believe that there's a lot to be gained in life by giving your money and your time, even when you don't have much to give. Sure, 10% to the church is crazy when so little of it actually goes to benevolence, and the value of the principle is lost when people do it out of legalism. But choosing a person or group to help financially can bring good to them and to yourself, IMO.

[Vigile]

I have a question for everyone here who likes money and wants more of it (Mike D, I already know your story ), what are you doing about it? Do you have a plan in place and are you taking steps to make it happen on a daily basis? These aren't rhetorical questions. I'm really curious.

[jjacksonRIAB]

I think money is an expedient. With the fiat, as long as people believe in it, it has value, and that value depreciates over time. I'm really liking gold right now.

 

I don't think living requires anything other than fuel. Nature provides the fuel. Humans store it, compress it, and manipulate it into other forms. To hell with money - thank you to everyone who has had a part in making life better for everyone else and for forming a "mostly fair" system to do so!

 

If I can repay your kindness in a profound way, I can only hope you will endear me with the greater of those gifts!

[SunNSand4me]

I have a question for everyone here who likes money and wants more of it (Mike D, I already know your story ), what are you doing about it? Do you have a plan in place and are you taking steps to make it happen on a daily basis? These aren't rhetorical questions. I'm really curious.

 

My husband and I have a plan (on paper) regarding income, spending, giving, investments, savings, long- and short-term purchase goals. We're not overly stringent about it, but it serves as a generally worthwhile roadmap for us.

[Guest Emerson]

I used to believe in that as well. Like Mike D, I've been there before. I've been poor, really poor. It sucks. No charity ever helped us out, no church, not even welfare or government programs. Some family friends took us in but even it got hard on them sheltering us. Everyone has their needs, it got hard on them and on us. I understand that.

 

Ministers, both private and famous are just begging off their god and belief system for money. I don't see why I should donate to any church or ministers like Joyce Meyer and etc., and charities even legitimate ones are known for paying their executives top money, but what do the people really get? Everyone has problems, its not my job to solve other peoples problems.

 

I used to believe that we were the "human family" and we should help each other out, but all this pov got me was taken advantage of by "friends" and strangers. I would give people my last stick of gum, my money, clothes, rides, etc. but when I needed something like a ride or anything, I'd get nothing back. Nothing.

 

Now my philosophy in life is to look out for #1. As for charity, all I do for that now is volunteer. I see how that makes a bigger difference than seeing money vanish in front of my eyes. I don't know where that money goes. Does it go into the pocket of some executive for their fancy car or for a person in real need.

 

It really irked me those actresses and actors and celebutantes got on tv for 9/11 charity and Hurricane Katrina charity marathon asking normal people to contribute their money to these funds.

 

Rich people are asking, normal hard working people to contribute? Give me a break. If all the actors in Hollywood who earn millions and millions gave away $5 million or 1 million, that would have helped than any charity donation in the world. Its nice to see them give 1 million, but they should give more than that. Rich people shouldn't be asking normal people for money.

 

Now my money is mine. Don't you dare ask me to give it to anyone, because I won't. Not anymore.

 

 

 

 

Life is much easier with an abundance of money, that's for sure. Why shouldn't everyone's goal be to earn as much as they can in the profession they choose, enjoy what it affords and give away what they don't need or want?

 

I do honestly believe that there's a lot to be gained in life by giving your money and your time, even when you don't have much to give. Sure, 10% to the church is crazy when so little of it actually goes to benevolence, and the value of the principle is lost when people do it out of legalism. But choosing a person or group to help financially can bring good to them and to yourself, IMO.

[Guest Emerson]

I have a question for everyone here who likes money and wants more of it (Mike D, I already know your story ), what are you doing about it? Do you have a plan in place and are you taking steps to make it happen on a daily basis? These aren't rhetorical questions. I'm really curious.

 

I love your question. Yes I have a plan. I'm in college, I'm a major in business and I plan on getting a high paying job after college. Okay, I know entry level jobs are just that but I plan on going as far as I can go. I plan on going after as much as I want and like Mike D, I want to live very well.

 

Wealth doesn't just happened, its fought for and worked for. I think the trick is to not let yourself become too greedy, because when that happens things like Enron happens. Its so hard to get what you want in this world in terms of money and career, but it can all fall so easy. And that's what I don't want to happen.

 

But back to the original question, I'm in this life, I'm already here, and I want to enjoy it well. I want to live it well and money helps. What purpose is there for a flower? Why is it born, why does it live? I don't know but as long as it is alive, it lives. That's what I want to do. I want to go as high as I can in this world.

 

I want to pursue outside interests like equestrian and dance, and I can't do that in college because everything is going for business courses like Accounting and Economics. You gotta do things that make you feel alive and make you feel good. Oh and eventually I want to own my own business to do what I want to do with my money, and I want to eventually pursue Hollywood!!

 

 

In the words of Madonna, "I want to rule the world!"

[♦ ficino ♦]

I have a question for everyone here who likes money and wants more of it (Mike D, I already know your story ), what are you doing about it? Do you have a plan in place and are you taking steps to make it happen on a daily basis? These aren't rhetorical questions. I'm really curious.

 

At some point I sat down and itemized my monthly expenses. I tried to prorate yearly expenses like life insurance, summer vacation, etc. over twelve months. I shot for saving something like 20% of my take-home pay. Itemizing expenses helped me decide some stuff to cut out, like bringing shirts to the laundry, and bigger ticket items. So I generated a budget. I put money into savings at the beginning of the month in forms not easy to withdraw, like stocks or faraway banks-by-mail. I invested reasonably aggressively on the theory that I was young, plus inflation is a built in, increasing cost, so low-interest accounts weren't a big help. Paying off the mortgage and things like that were middle-of-the road investments (i.e. equivalent to a guaranteed investment of moderate yield).

 

In recent years I've been better at the stock market, but not like Mike D!!

 

I don't follow the budget these days but I keep setting aside a bigger percentage per month than the average household. It builds up nicely over time.

 

It's a help to take maximum advantage of tax shelters as long as the rate of return isn't so low that it's below the return of a higher-yield, taxable investment. Things like an SRA or flex benefits reduce taxable income.

[Rosa Mystica]

I don't see anything wrong with liking money. I personally would like to make me more than my modest wage. Of course, in my case, getting more money would entail going back to college- which I'm not ready to do yet. So I have to make due.

 

As for deliberately living in poverty, that's just stupid. People who do this are being negligent of their own well-being. I have a friend who was on welfare for quite a few years (she might still be- we haven't spoken in a while). It was extremely difficult for her to get by (even though she managed it, somehow). I would not wish the same for me or anyone else. I'm rather fond of eating food, and having a roof over my head, thank you very much.

 

Personally, while I find tithing a tad annoying, I think it's good to donate to charities and to needy people- especially if you're wealthy. To me, giving to those less fortunate is a kind and generous thing to do. Guess I'm still a believer in "Do unto others".

[jasonwhatever]

Emerson: I can totally relate to you. When I used to attend Church, I used to give everything practically. "Give until it hurts." "The Lord loveth a cheerful giver," and oh how those preachers sure love to quote that one, don't they? "The Lord loveth a cheerful giver."

 

It is no surprise that there are so many Churches across this country: it is because it is an easy (and I do mean easy!) way to make a lot of money. Churches are not taxed. A small Church in a middle-class neighborhood can easily bring in 10,000 a week! I know. I used to live in a small, somewhat poor town, and that church was raking in thousands every week. Now, with all that loose, untaxed, money floating around all over this country, just think: surely there are a lot of judases out there, dipping their hands in the plate. "Oh, let's see 13723 dollars this week. I'll just take 2000 off the top. Noone will ever know. Hehe. Blessed be The Lord, for I am rich! Hallelujah, amen." I'm sure that it happens every day. And people just accept that it is being used properly in service to God.

 

I saw my small church that I used to attend to grow into a large church in less than 8 years. They started as a home prayer group with a charismatic pastor. Cleverly, by not mentioning any judgements or anything negative, and speaking only optimism and the future, the attendees started to increase. They then moved into a mall space. (Yes, you could attend services and then go shopping afterwards if you didn't give the greedy bastard all your money.) That grew into a multi-million dollar property. They now have three pastors, and a laundry list of auxilliary clergy. I really think that it is growing into a mega-church real fast. This is in a medium-sized city in the south.

 

Now, noone ever really gets to see the salary of their pastor, it seems, but I guarantee that pastor is drawing a very comfortable check each week. It is apparantly lucrative enough that his college graduate daughter has decided to work there also.

 

It actually really pisses me off with all these money-serving, greedy, hypocrites living in luxury at the expense of those who are barely getting by. It doesn't seem just. It also doesn't seem to be what The Scriptures teach. Either God is make an exception for them against His Own Word, or they themselves are living in error and are not saved anyway. And yet for all that, God Tells us to "not forsake the assembling of ourselves to gather, as is the manner of some." That seems to have a derogatory implication if we don't attend Church.

[spamandham]

I see nothing wrong with money, and certainly as the saying goes, there's no such thing as too much. That said I am going to dissent just a bit.

 

I am 41 years old, I have everything I need and most of what I thought I wanted (though not everything I fantacized about). I find that I just want to get rid of things. I'm sick of maintaining material goods, protecting them, insuring them, worrying about financial ruin due to external forces out of my control, etc.

 

I find myself wanting both a large store of wealth to draw from, but not wanting to actually purchase anything other than short term services. I don't want to own anything at all but the store of wealth itself.

 

I'm not some kind of hippie, or a martyr, I'm just sick of being owned by my posessions. You young whipper snappers have no idea what I'm talking about probably (including the term "whipper snapper" - hell, I don't even know what that means).

[Guest Emerson]

Lol, whipper snapper, lol that cracks me up. I do get what your saying about being owned by posessions. Thanks for chiming in and saying what's in your heart because we do need to hear this from those who came before us, you've lived it and experienced it. This is good to know, so thank you. I appreciate it.

[Jedah]

Im sort of wacked on this. I like Having money, but I dont like having to spend it. I like to save up over long periods of time because its fun to look in your savings account and see lots of zeros...

[Amethyst]

I don't see anything wrong with enjoying your life and spending a bit on yourself every now and then, but money isn't the be all and end all of everything. I certainly don't see it as the root of all evil anymore.

 

I save as much as I can because I don't want to live in an apartment all my life, but I get new clothes, books, and computer games within reason.