garrisonjj Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Here is a challenge. How and why did the catholic church invent the concept of confession. explain the bible verse "if your forgive men's sins they are forgiven,,,,if you hold them bound they are held bound" thanks, gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hey gary, here's a challenge for you. How many fingers am I holding up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Hey gary, here's a challenge for you. How many fingers am I holding up? why the godamn smart attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 You didn't even guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Can I guess? 3? Garison, I'm not sure how that can be explained. The Bible talks about several ways of getting it "right" with God. 1. do good deeds, don't sin etc, (Chef's favorite Ez 18) 2. accept Jesus (nothing else required) 3. do what Jesus said, and hate everyone that doesn't follow his commands 4. And now this one, someone binds/looses your transgressions as a mediator. Are all of them right, or could it be... none of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I think that confession was an excellent way for the Clergy to keep hold of their flocks. It gave them some intelligence about the activities of the congregation, and it gave them a means of control, because they could withhold grace. Wikipedia overview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I'll give you the short version, and understand that short is hard for me. Ha! The idea that a person once converted to Christ could sin and be forgiven again was a hard one to swallow for early Catholic leaders as early as 150 AD. However the church had to reconcile the fact that people are not perfect and will sin regardless. In the early days, once people were converted and then sinned they were excommunicated from the church and it came with harsh penalties. So, no one came forward and admitted their sins. Penance was always pubilc and severe and even after absolution by the priest the guy still had to live like a monk, no sex, no marriage, hair shaved, etc. People would wait until they were on their death bed to give a confession. During the early Middle Ages, Celtic monks devised a new system which was private and extended generally to all sins which allowed for frequent confessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Aaah! Thanks JGJ. Always a pleasure to load new data into the old computer called a brain... well, at least it used to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Aaah! Thanks JGJ. Always a pleasure to load new data into the old computer called a brain... well, at least it used to be... Welcome, I actually wrote a paper on this in college. I called it something like The Death of Death-bed Confessions. Origins of religious practices have always fascinated me. Another interesting historical topic was the "sin tickets" that were sold. Purchase your forgiveness ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Another interesting historical topic was the "sin tickets" that were sold. Purchase your forgiveness ahead of time. One of the reasons Martin Luther broke away. How can someone pay for forgiveness, when it was given for free through grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGJ@ReligionisBullshit Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Oh, I forgot about the second part of gary's post. I'm going to guess your talking about Matthew 6:14-15 where the Lord's prayer is explained. It's forgiving those who sin against you, not against God. It does not give a man the power to forgive sins in God's name. And for Shiva I'll guess 4 middle fingers, one for each hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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