Exchristianity and Mortality

[Voice]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:12 AM, DanForsman said:

I read this and wondered if this could really be true. I've seen cats seeming to react to their own dying process as well as to the death of their kittens. I happened to run across this article this morning:

 

https://aeon.co/essays/animals-wrestle-with-the-concept-of-death-and-mortality?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

I don't know that the article presents compelling proof but still I think it is easy to minimize the thoughts and feelings of animals because they do not speak our language. This is the last paragraph of this article:

 

   "We humans like to think of ourselves as a unique species. However, little by little, all those traits that we have been relying on to ground this uniqueness have been falling, as the science advances and reveals the staggering diversity and complexity of animal minds and behaviour. We now have solid evidence of culture, morality, rationality, and even rudimentary forms of linguistic communication. The concept of death should also be counted among those characteristics to which we can no longer resort to convince us of how very special we are. It is time to rethink human exceptionalism, and the disrespect for the natural world that comes with it."

 

I'm glad others are open minded and willing to question whether animals can ponder after life scenarios. It's something only they know. It's like the age-old argument whether someone can prove that another has a soul, or whether an individual can prove to others they themselves have a soul. Humans.

The notion that animals are beneath us and do not have souls and cannot think is a paradigm derived from the bible, starting in Genesis. It's spiritual poison. I hate it. Using the word hate here, about a paradigm. No living thing wants to die. It's encoded in all living things. Who are we to say that only we can wonder on these things? We are bacteria on a speck of dust in a vast, I would say living universe. What's more, we do not have the largest brains among life on this speck of dust.

[wadori]

For a long time I worried about "What if I'm wrong" after leaving Christianity.  I think I've finally gotten over it, but it takes a long time. 4 years is not a long time.  (It's been closer to 40 for me.)  Two things come to my mind right away:  1) We have no trouble believing that when an animal dies that is simply the end. I doubt that you believe in cat heaven or dog heaven (or hell).  Humans are another animal (mammal) like they are.  If we can believe other animals simply die and that's the end, why should it be difficult to believe the same for us?  2) Nowhere in the Old Testament is there any mention of hell as we think of it.  Although the word "hell" occurs (at least in some versions), the concept of being tortured or burning forever in a lake of fire is not mentioned anywhere.  It is entirely a New Testament concept.  If there is such a place, why did god not mention it anywhere in "his book" prior to Jesus coming along?  If he really wanted to keep "his people" in line, he would surely have warned them of the results if they didn't, right?  Hopefully, those points will help allay fears of the "hereafter".

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 9/10/2021 at 3:36 PM, DarkBishop said:

 

I guess mine pertains more to how mortality affects your thoughts as our window of life on earth closes in our later years. As an exchristian, having been indoctrinated in the past. 

     I ask because that is a path every one of us will eventually have to walk. 

 

Several in my family have died suddenly and it was unexpected.  But my grandfather and mother both came to a slow death at 91 and 94 years of age.  Both were dedicated church going believers in life, but had developed dementia, and 2 or 3 years before death had slowly lost any concept of religion, an after life, etc.  Mom had always wanted to be "babyed" and was happy in the nursing home up until death.  She died with a smile on her face.  I wasn't there when grandpa died, but saw him a few days before.  He had been a very independent, active man, and was not happy in the nursing home, but family had to put him there the last few days of his life.  The last time I visited He asked,  "can you get me out of here?"  I asked if he meant out of the nursing home.  His reply was, "no, out of this life."  One went out of life happy, the other went out sad, but both were ready to leave.

 

The 2 or 3 I knew well who died slowly with their minds still there were not concerned about where they were going.  One was happy about going to heaven to be reunited with her husband. Another was agnostic.  I haven't been around many dying people, but the ones I have been around and knew it was coming, seemed ready to "go".  At 80 years of age, and wrestling with some health problems (no pain involved), there have been a few times I have thought it might not be so bad to just go to sleep and not wake up.  When I got diabetes 53 years ago, I had no idea I would live this long. 

 

Please allow me one small brag.  A friend and I am planning an 80 mile ride in the Flint Hills of Kansas on our enduro motorcycles this weekend.  LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST WHILE YOU CAN!

[freshstart]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:36 PM, DarkBishop said:

Do any of you have thoughts like that cross your consciousness like I did? I know seajay had a similar thread in got questions. I guess mine pertains more to how mortality affects your thoughts as our window of life on earth closes in our later years. As an exchristian, having been indoctrinated in the past. 

     I ask because that is a path every one of us will eventually have to walk. 

I actually do think about death a lot, as I get closer to retirement age (even though I don't think I'll ever completely retire!). That goes along with some anxiety and depression (but who doesn't struggle with that to some degree?). I have seen a lot of people die in my line of work. (Both believers and non-believers). Perhaps its odd, but I've never seen anyone in fear in their final hours. Pain, yes, but not fear. What I have seen is people who are tired and just want to go, in the same way (I imagine) when sleep is badly needed. But I have also seen things way, way worse than death.

 

One of the things that helps me to stop focusing on the end of life is having gratitude for so many "blessings" ( for lack of a better word) in my life, starting with the simple fact that I can read and write this very message and that I have access to tools (phone, internet, etc.) to do so. The gratitude list is truly endless. That helps me deflect, even if temporarily, any worry about death.

 

As for worries about hell, I said a prayer years ago, explaining to God that I am not capable of choosing to believe the bible any more than I am capable of choosing to believe in leprechauns. I put my trust in a higher power (whatever that may be, even if its within me) to guide me. And it led me on a path to exploring Eastern philosophies.